Guest David Guyatt Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Craig, Years ago I read the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola. Truly. That was a few decades ago now. Interesting outfit the Society of Jesu..."Foot soldiers of the Pope" as they're colloquially called. I've always found it interesting that Loyola was born in the Basque region of Spain and became a knight before turning his sword in other directions. It must be something about the Spanish diet or the Spanish air because it was that same nation that spilled forth Josemaria Eskriva, the mysoginist (in many eyes) founder of Opus Dei, an unpleasant doctrinaire order that "flourished" under the rule of fascist Generalissimo Francisco Franco. Eskriva published a collection of 999 "maxims". Imagine that. The early title of the Society of Jesuits was "the Way", whereas the title of OD is "the Work". Both orders consider the others their arch rivals, if not enemies, it seems. The rigid discipline of the Jesuits that is aimed at bringing the failing flesh under the control of the mind has its echo in the corporeal mortifications practised by Opus Dei -- who use the cilice, a small metal chain with inward pointing spikes that is fastened to the upper thigh and tightened to cause discomfort. A sort of Christian equivalent to S&M, so far as I can see. I am also familiar with the Assassin sect, founded by Hasan-i Sabbah, which is another brutal religious sect. Now, as an enticement, I have an unusual picture of Generalissimo Franco in the company of a kneeling Juan Antonio Samarnach, Hon. Presidente for life (and back pocket filler) of the IOC -- or a most unusual and revealing picture of Spanish Bullfighters (notice the dual Spanish angle -- neat eh) and I'm happy to post one or both of them. Providing... All I want is for you to please answer those two questions I posed earlier -- which is only fair as I answered your "considerations" more than fully - and also to ask that you also tell me which unit of Christian soldiers you're with? I know I'm a pain in the ass. Just humour me, okay. Anyway, neither request is a brainer is it? And I'm being nice and polite too, eh... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 (edited) Its not a govenrnment line Mark, its the words of Bin Laden and his guys. Oh wait, I forgot, you believe its all a fake, regardlees of the fact you can't back that up. Who has fallen for what? LOL! And it's really YOU who sounds like the media. Bush and Cheney WANT another attack to occur? What? You a mind reader now? Not a mind reader, just an observer of US foreign policy. And yes, Bush, Chaney, the hawkish media and their soul mates most assuredly do want another terrorist attack to occur on US soil. Nothing would restore their tarnished images quicker, at least that's what they believe. It's a logical conclusion. US foreign policy appears determined to make it happen. For them, it's a case of nothing to lose and everything to gain.. Again you are attempting to read the minds of Bush and Cheney. You have no evidence that point to them "wanting another attack to occur". Exactly what do they have to gain? Opinion polls don't seem to affect their decision making process like our last President. Neither will be attempting re-election and neither has coattails. Their legacy will not be written at the end of their term, but many years from now when we finally see where the War on Terror takes the world. I don't think much of your logic. In case you missed it, your country is being run by a pack of greedy, cowardly warmongers. You haven't been paying attention. They are happy to sacrifice lives, as long as it isn't themselves or their families, of course. Now who is frothing at the mouth? ]It's true there are radical fundamentalist Islamists just as there are radical fundamentalist Christians, who also advocate a holy war. Your mistake is to assume that there is widespread support for such fundamentalist sentiments among the general populace. The vast majority of Christians and Muslims have no desire for a holy war, it's only a tiny minority who are manipulating the gullible into believing that the other side wishes to destroy them.[I agree there is not widespread support amoung the western world to support a war, that is pretty clear. On the other hand there is scant evidence that those of the muslim faith feel the same. There has been almost no condemnation of radical Islam by the rank and file muslims. How would you know? Do you ever speak to rank and file Muslims? I doubt it, you're too scared of them. No Mark I read. There is a mosque just three blocks from my home. Its never been picketed, firebombed nor harmed in any way. Those who worship there do so without complaint. You see we in the US are pretty forgiving about how one worships, if one worships and who one worships. If there is ANYWHERE in`the world where Muslims have denounced radical Islam with ANY vigor it is in the USA. Of course it also pays to stay vigilant, even here. I see. And the Muslim rank and file all agree on this one, I presume?So what's going to happen, Craig? Once the insurgents have driven the infidel's out of Iraq, there'll be a massive Muslim summit---after which they will sail across the sea and arrive in America brandishing cutlass and broadsword yelling 'death to the infidel'. I can see why you're so frightened. They won't need a summit, they are taking quite a bit of the world by simple immigration and birth rates. Many parts of the EU are going to be in a world of hurt in just a few generations. Lots of Muslim imigration coupled with high Muslim birth rates and very low birth rates by the locals...nope, all they will need is time. If you need evidence that Bush, Cheney and their media cheer squad support a holy war you only have to look at the invasion of Iraq and what it has produced. Hatred towards the West has become a self sustaining process. Actually it appears that quite to opposite is happening. Here is a new poll, and not that I hold polls is much regard it is still instructional. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19934792/ "More Muslims reject extremism, survey finds. Support for bombings fell in seven of eight Muslim countries surveyed ...snip... Most notably, the survey finds large and growing number of Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere rejecting Islamic extremism. Ten mainly Muslim countries were surveyed along with the Palestinian territories, as well as five African nations with large Muslim populations. For example, the percentage of Jordanian Muslims who have confidence in bin Laden as a world leader fell 36 percentage points to 20 percent since 2003 while the proportion who say suicide bombing is sometimes or always justified dropped 20 percent points to 23 percent. Other countries where support for bin Laden declined are Lebanon, Indonesia, Turkey, Pakistan and Kuwait. The report said support for such bombings and terror tactics has dropped since 2002 in seven of the eight countries where data were available. In Lebanon, the proportion of Muslims who say suicide attacks are often or sometimes justified fell to 34 percent from 79 percent while just 9 percent of Pakistanis believe suicide bombings can be justified often or sometimes, down from 33 percent in 2002 and a high of 41 percent in 2004." .... So why are the Bush policies a failure again? Incidentally, when it comes to radical organisations like Hamas in Palestine, it could be argued, and it has been on this forum, that they are a legitimate resistance group who have developed in response to 60 years of displacement and brutal treatment of Palestinians at the hands of the Israeli Government. Prior to the partitioning of Palestine, Jewish terrorist groups such as Irgun and Hagannah were active and responsible for many murders. Under the circumstances, it could be argued that Hamas have just as much legitimacy, if not more, than those Jewish terrorists of pre-Israel days. You just HAD to get your anti jewish sentiments in here somewhere .... So stating an historical fact that Jewish terrorist groups have been active in the past is anti-Jewish? Perhaps you should ask the moderators to delete any posts which mention this fact in future--it's obviously too anti-Jewish. Very weak, Craig. Its also relevant because the treatment of the Palestinians has been a festering sore which has soured relations between the Arab world and the US for decades. That means they don't like you. And who the hell can blame them? And they know Jewish terrorism existed prior to the current Muslim terrorists, even if you don't like hearing it. Mark I don't really care. Is there EVER going to be a point in time that the Palestinians are going to quit playing the victim card and simply move on? 60 years seems quite enough if you ask me. Edited July 24, 2007 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Craig, Years ago I read the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola. Truly. That was a few decades ago now. Interesting outfit the Society of Jesu..."Foot soldiers of the Pope" as they're colloquially called. I've always found it interesting that Loyola was born in the Basque region of Spain and became a knight before turning his sword in other directions. It must be something about the Spanish diet or the Spanish air because it was that same nation that spilled forth Josemaria Eskriva, the mysoginist (in many eyes) founder of Opus Dei, an unpleasant doctrinaire order that "flourished" under the rule of fascist Generalissimo Francisco Franco. Eskriva published a collection of 999 "maxims". Imagine that. The early title of the Society of Jesuits was "the Way", whereas the title of OD is "the Work". Both orders consider the others their arch rivals, if not enemies, it seems. The rigid discipline of the Jesuits that is aimed at bringing the failing flesh under the control of the mind has its echo in the corporeal mortifications practised by Opus Dei -- who use the cilice, a small metal chain with inward pointing spikes that is fastened to the upper thigh and tightened to cause discomfort. A sort of Christian equivalent to S&M, so far as I can see. I am also familiar with the Assassin sect, founded by Hasan-i Sabbah, which is another brutal religious sect. Now, as an enticement, I have an unusual picture of Generalissimo Franco in the company of a kneeling Juan Antonio Samarnach, Hon. Presidente for life (and back pocket filler) of the IOC -- or a most unusual and revealing picture of Spanish Bullfighters (notice the dual Spanish angle -- neat eh) and I'm happy to post one or both of them. Providing... All I want is for you to please answer those two questions I posed earlier -- which is only fair as I answered your "considerations" more than fully - and also to ask that you also tell me which unit of Christian soldiers you're with? I know I'm a pain in the ass. Just humour me, okay. Anyway, neither request is a brainer is it? And I'm being nice and polite too, eh... David Looks like Craig is dodging your questions, David. Maybe he's trying to emulate his idol. The way Dubya avoided the Vietnam War by joining the National Air Guard (somehow bypassing an 18 month waiting list in the process) was priceless: http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#got%20in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Turner Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 A sidebar I know but. Whilst they were poking around in Bush's colon the other day, Did they come across any of those pesky WMDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Guyatt Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Okay Craig, you're forcing my hand. Spanish picture time! Looks to me like this guy needs a bigger handgun to shoot that drug crazed 6.6 Mac10 toting door-beater, if he really wants to protect his family jewels. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 (edited) Craig, Years ago I read the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola. Truly. That was a few decades ago now. Interesting outfit the Society of Jesu..."Foot soldiers of the Pope" as they're colloquially called. I've always found it interesting that Loyola was born in the Basque region of Spain and became a knight before turning his sword in other directions. It must be something about the Spanish diet or the Spanish air because it was that same nation that spilled forth Josemaria Eskriva, the mysoginist (in many eyes) founder of Opus Dei, an unpleasant doctrinaire order that "flourished" under the rule of fascist Generalissimo Francisco Franco. Eskriva published a collection of 999 "maxims". Imagine that. The early title of the Society of Jesuits was "the Way", whereas the title of OD is "the Work". Both orders consider the others their arch rivals, if not enemies, it seems. The rigid discipline of the Jesuits that is aimed at bringing the failing flesh under the control of the mind has its echo in the corporeal mortifications practised by Opus Dei -- who use the cilice, a small metal chain with inward pointing spikes that is fastened to the upper thigh and tightened to cause discomfort. A sort of Christian equivalent to S&M, so far as I can see. I am also familiar with the Assassin sect, founded by Hasan-i Sabbah, which is another brutal religious sect. Now, as an enticement, I have an unusual picture of Generalissimo Franco in the company of a kneeling Juan Antonio Samarnach, Hon. Presidente for life (and back pocket filler) of the IOC -- or a most unusual and revealing picture of Spanish Bullfighters (notice the dual Spanish angle -- neat eh) and I'm happy to post one or both of them. Providing... All I want is for you to please answer those two questions I posed earlier -- which is only fair as I answered your "considerations" more than fully - and also to ask that you also tell me which unit of Christian soldiers you're with? I know I'm a pain in the ass. Just humour me, okay. Anyway, neither request is a brainer is it? And I'm being nice and polite too, eh... David Looks like Craig is dodging your questions, David. Maybe he's trying to emulate his idol. The way Dubya avoided the Vietnam War by joining the National Air Guard (somehow bypassing an 18 month waiting list in the process) was priceless: http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#got%20in Deleted, dupe post Edited July 25, 2007 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Craig, Years ago I read the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola. Truly. That was a few decades ago now. Interesting outfit the Society of Jesu..."Foot soldiers of the Pope" as they're colloquially called. I've always found it interesting that Loyola was born in the Basque region of Spain and became a knight before turning his sword in other directions. It must be something about the Spanish diet or the Spanish air because it was that same nation that spilled forth Josemaria Eskriva, the mysoginist (in many eyes) founder of Opus Dei, an unpleasant doctrinaire order that "flourished" under the rule of fascist Generalissimo Francisco Franco. Eskriva published a collection of 999 "maxims". Imagine that. The early title of the Society of Jesuits was "the Way", whereas the title of OD is "the Work". Both orders consider the others their arch rivals, if not enemies, it seems. The rigid discipline of the Jesuits that is aimed at bringing the failing flesh under the control of the mind has its echo in the corporeal mortifications practised by Opus Dei -- who use the cilice, a small metal chain with inward pointing spikes that is fastened to the upper thigh and tightened to cause discomfort. A sort of Christian equivalent to S&M, so far as I can see. I am also familiar with the Assassin sect, founded by Hasan-i Sabbah, which is another brutal religious sect. Now, as an enticement, I have an unusual picture of Generalissimo Franco in the company of a kneeling Juan Antonio Samarnach, Hon. Presidente for life (and back pocket filler) of the IOC -- or a most unusual and revealing picture of Spanish Bullfighters (notice the dual Spanish angle -- neat eh) and I'm happy to post one or both of them. Providing... All I want is for you to please answer those two questions I posed earlier -- which is only fair as I answered your "considerations" more than fully - and also to ask that you also tell me which unit of Christian soldiers you're with? I know I'm a pain in the ass. Just humour me, okay. Anyway, neither request is a brainer is it? And I'm being nice and polite too, eh... David Looks like Craig is dodging your questions, David. Maybe he's trying to emulate his idol. The way Dubya avoided the Vietnam War by joining the National Air Guard (somehow bypassing an 18 month waiting list in the process) was priceless: http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#got%20in David is posting messages to me? Foolish David. A poster who resorts to nazi and klan references in just a few posts is not someone I'll deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 General Smedley Butler had this to say about the Military Industrial Complex in an article that appeared in Common Sense (November, 1935): I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. He then followed it with the book, War is a Racket (1935) War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes. In the (First) World War a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows. How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle? Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAbutlerSD.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Guyatt Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Don't worry Craig, I'm getting off your case. I understand why you've formulated a farcical intellectual reason to duck answering the questions I posed and you're going to stick to that come what may. Maybe others here could articulate those two questions and also specifically ask you about your shadowy religious affiliation that's lurks behind you. But, d'you know what? You'd duck that too, wouldn't you... If your views are worth urging some other poor bastard to go out and die on your religious behalf, then they should be worth coming clean about. But dying is something best left to others eh. You'll stay with heckling from the ice cream parlour and then creep off to hide if a shadow falls across you. Courage mon ami! Farewell, Craig. I have your number but I won't be calling. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 General Smedley Butler had this to say about the Military Industrial Complex in an article that appeared in Common Sense (November, 1935):I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. He then followed it with the book, War is a Racket (1935) War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes. In the (First) World War a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows. How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle? Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAbutlerSD.htm John I'm going to assume you simply missed the following from upthread, so I'll repost it here. Of course you have been very critical of the war in Iraq and the war on Terror, perhaps YOU could offer up some solutions. "But lets forget all of the reasons I think why Ash is wrong and lets assume for a moment that he is correct. You John Simkin are now Bush and Blair and its 9/12. You have the luxury of hindsight. What do YOU do as leaders of both the UK and the USA in the days, weeks and months after the 9/11 attacks?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Craig, Years ago I read the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola. Truly. That was a few decades ago now. Interesting outfit the Society of Jesu..."Foot soldiers of the Pope" as they're colloquially called. I've always found it interesting that Loyola was born in the Basque region of Spain and became a knight before turning his sword in other directions. It must be something about the Spanish diet or the Spanish air because it was that same nation that spilled forth Josemaria Eskriva, the mysoginist (in many eyes) founder of Opus Dei, an unpleasant doctrinaire order that "flourished" under the rule of fascist Generalissimo Francisco Franco. Eskriva published a collection of 999 "maxims". Imagine that. The early title of the Society of Jesuits was "the Way", whereas the title of OD is "the Work". Both orders consider the others their arch rivals, if not enemies, it seems. The rigid discipline of the Jesuits that is aimed at bringing the failing flesh under the control of the mind has its echo in the corporeal mortifications practised by Opus Dei -- who use the cilice, a small metal chain with inward pointing spikes that is fastened to the upper thigh and tightened to cause discomfort. A sort of Christian equivalent to S&M, so far as I can see. I am also familiar with the Assassin sect, founded by Hasan-i Sabbah, which is another brutal religious sect. Now, as an enticement, I have an unusual picture of Generalissimo Franco in the company of a kneeling Juan Antonio Samarnach, Hon. Presidente for life (and back pocket filler) of the IOC -- or a most unusual and revealing picture of Spanish Bullfighters (notice the dual Spanish angle -- neat eh) and I'm happy to post one or both of them. Providing... All I want is for you to please answer those two questions I posed earlier -- which is only fair as I answered your "considerations" more than fully - and also to ask that you also tell me which unit of Christian soldiers you're with? I know I'm a pain in the ass. Just humour me, okay. Anyway, neither request is a brainer is it? And I'm being nice and polite too, eh... David Looks like Craig is dodging your questions, David. Maybe he's trying to emulate his idol. The way Dubya avoided the Vietnam War by joining the National Air Guard (somehow bypassing an 18 month waiting list in the process) was priceless: http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#got%20in David is posting messages to me? Foolish David. A poster who resorts to nazi and klan references in just a few posts is not someone I'll deal with. In that case you'd better scratch me too. A poster who resorts to describing the Palestinians as people who play the victim card and then has the shameless hypocrisy to claim he is deeply offended at David's posts is not someone I'll deal with. Good luck with the banjo lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 (edited) Craig, Years ago I read the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola. Truly. That was a few decades ago now. Interesting outfit the Society of Jesu..."Foot soldiers of the Pope" as they're colloquially called. I've always found it interesting that Loyola was born in the Basque region of Spain and became a knight before turning his sword in other directions. It must be something about the Spanish diet or the Spanish air because it was that same nation that spilled forth Josemaria Eskriva, the mysoginist (in many eyes) founder of Opus Dei, an unpleasant doctrinaire order that "flourished" under the rule of fascist Generalissimo Francisco Franco. Eskriva published a collection of 999 "maxims". Imagine that. The early title of the Society of Jesuits was "the Way", whereas the title of OD is "the Work". Both orders consider the others their arch rivals, if not enemies, it seems. The rigid discipline of the Jesuits that is aimed at bringing the failing flesh under the control of the mind has its echo in the corporeal mortifications practised by Opus Dei -- who use the cilice, a small metal chain with inward pointing spikes that is fastened to the upper thigh and tightened to cause discomfort. A sort of Christian equivalent to S&M, so far as I can see. I am also familiar with the Assassin sect, founded by Hasan-i Sabbah, which is another brutal religious sect. Now, as an enticement, I have an unusual picture of Generalissimo Franco in the company of a kneeling Juan Antonio Samarnach, Hon. Presidente for life (and back pocket filler) of the IOC -- or a most unusual and revealing picture of Spanish Bullfighters (notice the dual Spanish angle -- neat eh) and I'm happy to post one or both of them. Providing... All I want is for you to please answer those two questions I posed earlier -- which is only fair as I answered your "considerations" more than fully - and also to ask that you also tell me which unit of Christian soldiers you're with? I know I'm a pain in the ass. Just humour me, okay. Anyway, neither request is a brainer is it? And I'm being nice and polite too, eh... David Looks like Craig is dodging your questions, David. Maybe he's trying to emulate his idol. The way Dubya avoided the Vietnam War by joining the National Air Guard (somehow bypassing an 18 month waiting list in the process) was priceless: http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#got%20in David is posting messages to me? Foolish David. A poster who resorts to nazi and klan references in just a few posts is not someone I'll deal with. In that case you'd better scratch me too. A poster who resorts to describing the Palestinians as people who play the victim card and then has the shameless hypocrisy to claim he is deeply offended at David's posts is not someone I'll deal with. Good luck with the banjo lessons. So long Mark! And yea, after 60 years they STILL are playing the victim card. Time to for them to get over it and move on...maybe even make something of themselfs. Na, why do that? Edited July 25, 2007 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 General Smedley Butler had this to say about the Military Industrial Complex in an article that appeared in Common Sense (November, 1935):I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. He then followed it with the book, War is a Racket (1935) War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes. In the (First) World War a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows. How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle? Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAbutlerSD.htm Thanks for directing attention to this John. I hadn't read the 'plot to overthrow Rosevelt' thread. I must confess I hadn't heard of him before but he seems like an extraordinary individual, and the first to expose the Military Industrial Complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 (edited) And yea, after 60 years they STILL are playing the victim card. Time to for them to get over it and move on...maybe even make something of themselfs. Na, why do that? If Lamson's views were only his own brand of hate the other he could be ignored, but sadly he 'speaks' for all too many who out of ignorance, hate and scapegoating usually blame the victim, rather than the victimizer in Amoralica of today. I, who am a Jewish Athiest who has never lived there could, if I wanted, fly tomorrow unannounced to Isreal and claim [and get in short order] citizenship and even financial help, perhaps, if needed. I could perhaps even get a loan for a home in a settlement on [stolen and occupied] Palestinian lands..if I stay ten years I don't have to repay the loan. Facts. I'd be protected by the Israeli Army, paid for by the USA as their permanently moored aircraftcarier in the Middle East Oil regioion. A Palistinian who's family might have lived and tended that same land for centuries is denied even entry; citiizenship; human decentcy - and if not acting like a good slave their life...... you wouldn't know right from wrong; justice from injustice; decentcy from indecentcy if you had it laid out before you.......you've bought the skam sold to people like you.....political snakeoil. Oh please Peter, sheesh.. my position has NOTHING to do with hate. How very "left' of you to make that claim. How many deals have the "Palestinian's passed up over the last 60 years? How much sense and 'morality" is there in this stupid stance? Lets see now, take any one of the many deals INCLUDING the original deal or...claim forever victim status, rake in huges sums of 'aid' money and oh yea...turn your childen into human bombs. Nothing but a series of VERY bad choices and of course the undying love and sympathy of the loony left... Hard to have any SYMPATHY for a people who continue to make stupid choices instead of moving on and making something for themself and their children. Edited July 27, 2007 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 (edited) deleted...dupe post Edited July 27, 2007 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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