Bin Ladens annual push for Bush. He's got to be a GOP.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Here he comes again, regular as a pensioner on a bran diet.

Yes its the annual "BIG, BAD BIN LADEN BOLLOX" How kind of him to show up every time the Republicans are on melt-down setting. Beard newly died, he warns Americans to dump democracy, ( their doing it Osama, their doing it) and embrace all things sharia, thus allowing shrub to re-run the old "they hate us for our freedom's" schtick.

I have no doubt that the bearded fanatic on the video is none other than the chief evil doer. What this does raise questions about is who the hell does old beardy actually work for.

[Guest David Guyatt]

Here he comes again, regular as a pensioner on a bran diet.

Yes its the annual "BIG, BAD BIN LADEN BOLLOX" How kind of him to show up every time the Republicans are on melt-down setting. Beard newly died, he warns Americans to dump democracy, ( their doing it Osama, their doing it) and embrace all things sharia, thus allowing shrub to re-run the old "they hate us for our freedom's" schtick.

I have no doubt that the bearded fanatic on the video is none other than the chief evil doer. What this does raise questions about is who the hell does old beardy actually work for.

Hey! I eat bran...

He's gotta be on the payroll. Bora Tora boom or bust

[Jack White]

LATEST BIN LADEN VIDEO IS A FORGERY: ALL REFERENCES TO CURRENT EVENTS ARE MADE DURING VIDEO FREEZ

E

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/9/9/61032/95401

[...] the video freezes at about 1 minute and 36 seconds, and motion only resumes again at 12:30. The video then freezes again at 14:02 remains frozen until

the end. All references to current events, such as the 62nd anniversary of the U.S. atomic bombing of Japan, and Sarkozy and Brown being the leaders of

France and the UK, respectively, occur when the video is frozen! The words spoken when the video is in motion contain no references to contemporary

events and could have been (and likely were) made before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

just for your info:

Washingtonpost.com: dot.mil

When Seeing and Hearing Isn't Believing

By William M. Arkin

Special to washingtonpost.com

Monday, Feb. 1, 1999

"Gentlemen! We have called you together to inform you that we are going to overthrow the United States

government." So begins a statement being delivered by Gen. Carl W. Steiner, former Commander-in-chief,

U.S. Special Operations Command.

At least the voice sounds amazingly like him.

But it is not Steiner. It is the result of voice "morphing" technology developed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New

Mexico.

By taking just a 10-minute digital recording of Steiner's voice, scientist George Papcun is able, in near real time, to clone speech

patterns and develop an accurate facsimile. Steiner was so impressed, he asked for a copy of the tape.

Steiner was hardly the first or last victim to be spoofed by Papcun's team members. To refine their method, they took various high

quality recordings of generals and experimented with creating fake statements. One of the most memorable is Colin Powell stating "I

am being treated well by my captors."

"They chose to have him say something he would never otherwise have said," chuckled one of Papcun's colleagues.

A Box of Chocolates is Like War

Most Americans were introduced to the tricks of the digital age in the movie Forrest Gump, when the character played by Tom Hanks

appeared to shake hands with President Kennedy.

For Hollywood, it is special effects. For covert operators in the U.S. military and intelligence agencies, it is a weapon of the future.

"Once you can take any kind of information and reduce it into ones and zeros, you can do some pretty interesting things," says

Daniel T. Kuehl, chairman of the Information Operations department of the National Defense University in Washington, the military's

school for information warfare.

Digital morphing â€â€* voice, video, and photo â€â€* has come of age, available for use in

psychological operations. PSYOPS, as the military calls it, seek to exploit human vulnerabilities in enemy

governments, militaries and populations to pursue national and battlefield objectives.

To some, PSYOPS is a backwater military discipline of leaflet dropping and radio propaganda. To a

growing group of information war technologists, it is the nexus of fantasy and reality. Being able to

manufacture convincing audio or video, they say, might be the difference in a successful military

operation or coup.

Allah on the Holodeck

Pentagon planners started to discuss digital morphing after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Covert operators kicked around the idea

of creating a computer-faked videotape of Saddam Hussein crying or showing other such manly weaknesses, or in some sexually

compromising situation. The nascent plan was for the tapes to be flooded into Iraq and the Arab world.

The tape war never proceeded, killed, participants say, by bureaucratic fights over jurisdiction, skepticism over the technology, and

concerns raised by Arab coalition partners.

But the "strategic" PSYOPS scheming didn't die. What if the U.S. projected a holographic image of

Allah floating over Baghdad urging the Iraqi people and Army to rise up against Saddam, a senior Air

Force officer asked in 1990?

According to a military physicist given the task of looking into the hologram idea, the feasibility had

been established of projecting large, three-dimensional objects that appeared to float in the air.

But doing so over the skies of Iraq? To project such a hologram over Baghdad on the order of several

hundred feet, they calculated, would take a mirror more than a mile square in space, as well as huge

projectors and power sources.

The Gulf War hologram story might be dismissed were it not the case that washingtonpost.com has learned that a super secret

program was established in 1994 to pursue the very technology for PSYOPS application. The "Holographic Projector" is described in

a classified Air Force document as a system to "project information power from space ... for special operations deception missions."

War is Like a Box of Chocolates

Voice-morphing? Fake video? Holographic projection? They sound more like Mission Impossible and Star Trek gimmicks than

weapons. Yet for each, there are corresponding and growing research efforts as the technologies improve and offensive information

warfare expands.

Whereas early voice morphing required cutting and pasting speech to put letters or words together to make a composite, Papcun's

software developed at Los Alamos can far more accurately replicate the way one actually speaks. Eliminated are the robotic

intonations.

The irony is that after Papcun finished his speech cloning research, there were no takers in the military. Luckily for him, Hollywood is

interested: The promise of creating a virtual Clark Gable is mightier than the sword.

Video and photo manipulation has already raised profound questions of authenticity for the journalistic world. With audio joining the

mix, it is not only journalists but also privacy advocates and the conspiracy-minded who will no doubt ponder the worrisome mischief

that lurks in the not too distant future.

"We already know that seeing isn't necessarily believing," says Dan Kuehl, "now I guess hearing isn't either."

William M. Arkin, author of "The U.S. Military Online," is a leading expert on national security and the Internet. He lectures and

writes on nuclear weapons, military matters and information warfare. An Army intelligence analyst from 1974-1978, Arkin

currently consults for Washingtonpost.Newsweek Interactive, MSNBC and the Natural Resources Defense Council.

[Dave Greer]

Here he comes again, regular as a pensioner on a bran diet.

Yes its the annual "BIG, BAD BIN LADEN BOLLOX" How kind of him to show up every time the Republicans are on melt-down setting. Beard newly died, he warns Americans to dump democracy, ( their doing it Osama, their doing it) and embrace all things sharia, thus allowing shrub to re-run the old "they hate us for our freedom's" schtick.

I have no doubt that the bearded fanatic on the video is none other than the chief evil doer. What this does raise questions about is who the hell does old beardy actually work for.

Rather good timing as Fahrenheit 911 was on Channel 4 tonight.

First time I've seen it, if anything I wish they'd spent even more time on the Bush/Bin Laden links. Uncomfortable viewing for any Republicans out there.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

And just before Petraeus's cooking the books extraganza, what impecable timing the old terrorist has.

The truth about Bin Ladens paymasters may well lie in the Mujahadeen-CIA connection, dancing partners throughout the eighties. As John le carre says, "Once a spook, always a spook."

[Guest David Guyatt]

I also watched Fahrenheit 911 for the first time last night (and not down the pub getting lagered up, Dave! ).

Very hard hitting it was, too.

I'm quite sure that bin Laden is, if not on the payroll, then at least a useful patsy to play with. I also have considered the prospect of video morphing techniques to be a perfect means of transmitting disinformation. That and the fact that the FBI still don't want him as a terrorist for 911 -- only for the deaths of US citizens he was allegedly responsible for overseas. Couldn't be clearer if you ask me.

I also know that he came close to being assassinated by good old Uncle some years ago at a compound near Khartoum, but no one in the Langley woods would give the order to pull the trigger. That tells us something.

David

[Guest Stephen Turner]

I also watched Fahrenheit 911 for the first time last night (and not down the pub getting lagered up, Dave! ).

Very hard hitting it was, too.

I'm quite sure that bin Laden is, if not on the payroll, then at least a useful patsy to play with. I also have considered the prospect of video morphing techniques to be a perfect means of transmitting disinformation. That and the fact that the FBI still don't want him as a terrorist for 911 -- only for the deaths of US citizens he was allegedly responsible for overseas. Couldn't be clearer if you ask me.

I also know that he came close to being assassinated by good old Uncle some years ago at a compound near Khartoum, but no one in the Langley woods would give the order to pull the trigger. That tells us something.

David

Hey David, Just back from my sojourn to Somerset, full of rough scrumpy and bonhomie.

Not much new for us determined diggers, but worth a look for the familial connections.

OBL is a more than useful pop-up boogie man, as WC Fields said, " I always keep a bottle of brandy close to hand as a restorative in case I see a snake, which I also keep close to hand."

Edited September 11, 2007 by Stephen Turner
to correct a spelling mistake.

[Len Colby]

Well, we certainly know who he was working with and getting his money and weapons from in his early days....the USA!....documented fact!

Then you should have no trouble documenting it. In any case the US and UK made an alliance with Stalin during WW2 doesn't mean that he was a pawn of the West.

The Bush - OBL relationship seems more symbiotic to me. They need each other, Bin-Laden wouldn't have wanted Kerry to have won in 2004 because he was more likely to extricate the US from Iraq which would have been 'bad for business'. I don't see the timing of this release being especially beneficial to Bush the election is more than a year off. I wouldn't be surprised if he popped in again in 13 - 14 months for an "October Surprise" though.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Len Colby

[Guest David Guyatt]

I also watched Fahrenheit 911 for the first time last night (and not down the pub getting lagered up, Dave! ).

Very hard hitting it was, too.

I'm quite sure that bin Laden is, if not on the payroll, then at least a useful patsy to play with. I also have considered the prospect of video morphing techniques to be a perfect means of transmitting disinformation. That and the fact that the FBI still don't want him as a terrorist for 911 -- only for the deaths of US citizens he was allegedly responsible for overseas. Couldn't be clearer if you ask me.

I also know that he came close to being assassinated by good old Uncle some years ago at a compound near Khartoum, but no one in the Langley woods would give the order to pull the trigger. That tells us something.

David

Hey David, Just back from my sojourn to Somerset, full of rough scrumpy and bonhomie.

Not much new for us determined diggers, but worth a look for the familial connections.

OBL is a more than useful pop-up boogie man, as WC Fields said, " I always keep a bottle of brandy close to hand as a restorative in case I see a snake, which I also keep close to hand."

Steve, if we were true seekers of profit, we would team up and produce "Snake brand scrumpy brandy" to minimise the clutter. We could base it on Tequila and pop a cobra's head in the bottle -- and then watch as Rupert Murdoch jumps back out (fangs dripping) when we uncork it!

Anyway, hope you had a good one... not that much in the way of traffic jams down there eh??

David

[Dave Greer]

I also watched Fahrenheit 911 for the first time last night (and not down the pub getting lagered up, Dave! ).

Very hard hitting it was, too.

I'm quite sure that bin Laden is, if not on the payroll, then at least a useful patsy to play with. I also have considered the prospect of video morphing techniques to be a perfect means of transmitting disinformation. That and the fact that the FBI still don't want him as a terrorist for 911 -- only for the deaths of US citizens he was allegedly responsible for overseas. Couldn't be clearer if you ask me.

I also know that he came close to being assassinated by good old Uncle some years ago at a compound near Khartoum, but no one in the Langley woods would give the order to pull the trigger. That tells us something.

David

Sadly I can't spend all my time down the pub getting lagered

The film was obviously (admittedly) propaganda, riddled with ad homs, and no doubt had it's fair share of factual errors. What impressed me was the emotional impact, and asking the question why the hell did we agree (or were manipulated) to this ridiculous war in the first place? Two killer moments were the US mother who'd lost her son, wandering forlorn outside the White House hoping for some kind of answer, counterpointed by the Iraqi mother beating herself and wishing God's vengeance against the people who had destroyed her family. The other was the footage of smart bombs hitting their targets, with Rumsfeld (?) spouting about how their weapons were so very humane: cut to a dreadful image of a boy no older than six with his arm blown open down to the bone.

Disturbing, moving, thought-provoking. Deserves a 9/10 IMDB rating IMO.

[Guest David Guyatt]

I also watched Fahrenheit 911 for the first time last night (and not down the pub getting lagered up, Dave! ).

Very hard hitting it was, too.

I'm quite sure that bin Laden is, if not on the payroll, then at least a useful patsy to play with. I also have considered the prospect of video morphing techniques to be a perfect means of transmitting disinformation. That and the fact that the FBI still don't want him as a terrorist for 911 -- only for the deaths of US citizens he was allegedly responsible for overseas. Couldn't be clearer if you ask me.

I also know that he came close to being assassinated by good old Uncle some years ago at a compound near Khartoum, but no one in the Langley woods would give the order to pull the trigger. That tells us something.

David

Sadly I can't spend all my time down the pub getting lagered

The film was obviously (admittedly) propaganda, riddled with ad homs, and no doubt had it's fair share of factual errors. What impressed me was the emotional impact, and asking the question why the hell did we agree (or were manipulated) to this ridiculous war in the first place? Two killer moments were the US mother who'd lost her son, wandering forlorn outside the White House hoping for some kind of answer, counterpointed by the Iraqi mother beating herself and wishing God's vengeance against the people who had destroyed her family. The other was the footage of smart bombs hitting their targets, with Rumsfeld (?) spouting about how their weapons were so very humane: cut to a dreadful image of a boy no older than six with his arm blown open down to the bone.

Disturbing, moving, thought-provoking. Deserves a 9/10 IMDB rating IMO.

Au contraire -- "down the pub getting lagered up" is where I would have been (not watching the telly) had it not been for the bloody quacks and their godawful fistfull of fun killing pills...

Your're quite right. Some of the footage was very distrurbing and emotionally impactful. Along with that was the clip of Bush speaking with a smirk at a dinner dedicated to his wealthy patrons, with the words:

"There are the wealthy.... and the more wealthy. Sometimes you are caled the elite. You are my base."

Out of the mouth of a wheedling polician. In a nutshell. Wham! Bam! Thankee mam.

David

[Dave Greer]

Au contraire -- "down the pub getting lagered up" is where I would have been (not watching the telly) had it not been for the bloody quacks and their godawful fistfull of fun killing pills...

You don't believe all that "no alcohol with pills" nonsense do you?

Your're quite right. Some of the footage was very distrurbing and emotionally impactful. Along with that was the clip of Bush speaking with a smirk at a dinner dedicated to his wealthy patrons, with the words:

"There are the wealthy.... and the more wealthy. Sometimes you are caled the elite. You are my base."

Out of the mouth of a wheedling polician. In a nutshell. Wham! Bam! Thankee mam.

David

That Bush quote made me feel quite ill. I think the actual quote was "Here are the have's... and the have-mores". He might as well have said "The have-nots are off getting themselves killed in Iraqistan by Alkie Ida - but hey, who cares about them. More deaths equate to less welfare payments in the long term. I'M A WAR PRESIDENT! Now watch this drive..." Wouldn't have surprised me if he got a standing ovation for that one.

Can you imagine the furore if a British politician came out with a sinister similar (ha! error not intended) speech? Are the US press completely gutless?

[Guest David Guyatt]

Dave Greer said:

Quote:

You don't believe all that "no alcohol with pills" nonsense do you?

Unquote

Blimey, does that mean it's okay to mix my poison? Godsend you! I always thought wine and Pils didn't compliment each other, but I'm all for a exhaustive and scientific and submit that I should be the guinea pig. No more telly for me...

Hello pub!

Quote:

That Bush quote made me feel quite ill. I think the actual quote was "Here are the have's... and the have-mores". He might as well have said "The have-nots are off getting themselves killed in Iraqistan by Alkie Ida - but hey, who cares about them. More deaths equate to less welfare payments in the long term. I'M A WAR PRESIDENT! Now watch this drive..." Wouldn't have surprised me if he got a standing ovation for that one.

Can you imagine the furore if a British politician came out with a sinister similar (ha! error not intended) speech? Are the US press completely gutless?

Unquote

I think your memory of the quote is more accurate than mine. Like you I found it hard not to conclude that it was a private joke about "we" and "them" -- and a bloody ugly joke at that.

Personally, I think that George orwell had the general picture in his book 1984 -- perpetual war is aimed at controlling a nation's domestic society, where winning or losing are irrelevant since neither of the combatants are seeking to destroy the other, merely to prolonge the war. Orwell also had the alliances of the three powers shifting as required in order to keep this ball rolling. One day they're on your side, the next they're your enemies.

Why we buy into this revolting nonsense I don't know, but we do.

Incidentally, Dave, Orwell choose his non de plume from the river Orwell in Suffolk -- just a few miles down the road from where Steve growded up. I reckon that's significant -- and very, very suspicious. Besides, anyone who voluntarily drinks "scrumpy" has to fall under suspicion...

David

Edited September 11, 2007 by David Guyatt

[Dave Greer]

Incidentally, Dave, Orwell choose his non de plume from the river Orwell in Suffolk -- just a few miles down the road from where Steve growded up. I reckon that's significant -- and very, very suspicious. Besides, anyone who voluntarily drinks "scrumpy" has to fall under suspicion...

David

Suspicious indeed. And I've never trusted Scrumpy drinkers since the power of advertising convinced me that true cider is Irish and icy. Anyway, "Magners" sounds more masculine than "Scrumpy".

Speaking of "suspicious", I used these two photos taken on Redcar beach in a discussion re perspective in Apollo photos a while back. Nothing suspicious in that you might think: until you realise that the buildings in the background were later used as the set for the Dunkirk setting of the film Atonement. I've been accused of being a shill before, but if they only knew I took my "debunker" photos on Hollywood film sets...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.greer70...llo/Beach_1.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.greer70...llo/Beach_2.jpg

Edited September 12, 2007 by Dave Greer

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Dave Greer said:

Quote:

You don't believe all that "no alcohol with pills" nonsense do you?

Unquote

Blimey, does that mean it's okay to mix my poison? Godsend you! I always thought wine and Pils didn't compliment each other, but I'm all for a exhaustive and scientific and submit that I should be the guinea pig. No more telly for me...

Hello pub!

Quote:

That Bush quote made me feel quite ill. I think the actual quote was "Here are the have's... and the have-mores". He might as well have said "The have-nots are off getting themselves killed in Iraqistan by Alkie Ida - but hey, who cares about them. More deaths equate to less welfare payments in the long term. I'M A WAR PRESIDENT! Now watch this drive..." Wouldn't have surprised me if he got a standing ovation for that one.

Can you imagine the furore if a British politician came out with a sinister similar (ha! error not intended) speech? Are the US press completely gutless?

Unquote

I think your memory of the quote is more accurate than mine. Like you I found it hard not to conclude that it was a private joke about "we" and "them" -- and a bloody ugly joke at that.

Personally, I think that George orwell had the general picture in his book 1984 -- perpetual war is aimed at controlling a nation's domestic society, where winning or losing are irrelevant since neither of the combatants are seeking to destroy the other, merely to prolonge the war. Orwell also had the alliances of the three powers shifting as required in order to keep this ball rolling. One day they're on your side, the next they're your enemies.

Why we buy into this revolting nonsense I don't know, but we do.

Incidentally, Dave, Orwell choose his non de plume from the river Orwell in Suffolk -- just a few miles down the road from where Steve growded up. I reckon that's significant -- and very, very suspicious. Besides, anyone who voluntarily drinks "scrumpy" has to fall under suspicion...

David

Its been a long time since I read 1984. Cant remember the name of the central hate figure, but just like snowball in Animal farm all of Societies evils were attributed to him, sound like anyone we know?

"IF there is hope it lies with the proles" Winston Smith.

And yes David, the American press are completely gutless, and guted, a sorry spineless, sycophantic, shower. Now, where did I put that scrumpy?