Guest Stephen Turner Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Evan ... I've asked Mike about joining the Education Forum to debate Lamson but he said he has been reading the posts here and doesn't much like the way the conspiracy researchers are treated .He doesn't care much for BAUT or clavius / Apollo Hoax for the same reason as well .... So he has offered to debate craig or you or anyone else who might be interested , on his personal YouTube profile page ... but so far craig hasn't taken him up on his offer , but prefers to stay here where the CT's are very much out numberd and now even controlled with moderation by you , a defender of Apollo. How about if I abstain from moderation in a specific debate thread between Mr St Mark and Craig? Have one of the other mods oversee it, a mod of your choice? Nobody else allowed to post in the thread but those two (St Mark / Lamson ... and the mod)? Equal number, fair moderation, no interference. Can't get fairer than that. Evan, problem is it would need to be a Moderator with no feelings, one way or the other about all things Apollo. As both myself and John G have expressed strong beliefs in this area that leaves Antti, or Kathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 (edited) Evan ... I've asked Mike about joining the Education Forum to debate Lamson but he said he has been reading the posts here and doesn't much like the way the conspiracy researchers are treated .He doesn't care much for BAUT or clavius / Apollo Hoax for the same reason as well .... So he has offered to debate craig or you or anyone else who might be interested , on his personal YouTube profile page ... but so far craig hasn't taken him up on his offer , but prefers to stay here where the CT's are very much out numberd and now even controlled with moderation by you , a defender of Apollo. "DEBATE" on a youtube profile page? ARE YOU KIDDING? Youtube only allows 500 CHARACTERS per post, no image embed, no quote or active links. In addition the comments section (where this "debate" might take place) is not threaded. In other words it is worthless for debate. Duane is not telling the truth when he says " but prefers to stay here where the CT's are very much out numberd and now even controlled with moderation by you , a defender of Apollo.". I have offered and will continue to offer to meet St Mark at any proper threaded forum of his choice, or any of the forums where I am a member. I even created a new forum of my own and invited St. Mark, Daune and all of their friends to join. So far St. Mark has offered no venue except youtube and as I have stated on more than once, that venue is not acceptable. Edited October 22, 2007 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Actually, there are a number of forums which all participants could join to conduct the debate. How about the Loose Change board? That is pro-conspiracy. I don't know if Craig would be interested but it is a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Actually, there are a number of forums which all participants could join to conduct the debate.How about the Loose Change board? That is pro-conspiracy. I don't know if Craig would be interested but it is a suggestion. I don't reaally care where it is other than it must support proper photographic debate...links and image embeds, quotes and is threaded. Pro conspiracy boards...which in my book describes the Ed Forum...are not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I think the Loose Change board supports links - being an IPB board - but I don't think it allows uploads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 So once again this thread has been derailed and sidetracked by Lamson's insistance on debating Mike ... Here is Mike's latest PM to me which should make it clear once again why he has no interest in joining this forum or any other forum of craig's choosing . "Hi Duane, Thanks for that, I'm on a short break for a few days, I'll catch up with this on my return. If Lamson wants a shouting match in the stead of a rational discussion I'm not interested. He knows where I am if he fancies a one-on-one, there's three YouTube video comments boards of mine for him to choose from. I suspect though, he prefers the shelter and safety-in-numbers of the pro-establishment forums. Cheers Mike" So now you know where you can debate Mike if you really want to . Getting back on topic then .... I have never seen any Apollo photo , allegedly taken on the Moon , that shows the Sun or the Sun's reflection , looking anything like the real Sun does from the vacuum of space in low earth orbit ... So if you can find any , I would be very interested in seeing them ... I have looked through every photo on the Apollo Image Gallery and the Apollo 'Sun' always looks as though it is really an artificial light source of some kind .... And the 'Sun' reflections on the convex visor surfaces look highly suspicious as well . Like in this example here of a frame grab from one of the Apollo videos allegedly taken on the Moon , where the 'Sun' visor reflection is HUGE and taking up more of the visor than the real Sun would . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 So once again this thread has been derailed and sidetracked by Lamson's insistance on debating Mike ... Here is Mike's latest PM to me which should make it clear once again why he has no interest in joining this forum or any other forum of craig's choosing ."Hi Duane, Thanks for that, I'm on a short break for a few days, I'll catch up with this on my return. If Lamson wants a shouting match in the stead of a rational discussion I'm not interested. He knows where I am if he fancies a one-on-one, there's three YouTube video comments boards of mine for him to choose from. I suspect though, he prefers the shelter and safety-in-numbers of the pro-establishment forums. Cheers Mike" So now you know where you can debate Mike if you really want to . Getting back on topic then .... I have never seen any Apollo photo , allegedly taken on the Moon , that shows the Sun or the Sun's reflection , looking anything like the real Sun does from the vacuum of space in low earth orbit ... So if you can find any , I would be very interested in seeing them ... I have looked through every photo on the Apollo Image Gallery and the Apollo 'Sun' always looks as though it is really an artificial light source of some kind .... And the 'Sun' reflections on the convex visor surfaces look highly suspicious as well . Like in this example here of a frame grab from one of the Apollo videos allegedly taken on the Moon , where the 'Sun' visor reflection is HUGE and taking up more of the visor than the real Sun would . Well I guess we are back to square one. Please don't bother posting St. Marks comments here for me, I'm going to ignore them. As for you, my comments are here, and when you find the ablilty to deal with real photographic issues and not, "it does not look right to me" then let me know. Right now your comments are pretty much meaningless. Your frame grab is a perfect example of your inability to understand something as simple as video blooming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Well, good ... Now we can finally leave Mike out of this then . Yes, I have heard of the video blooming excuse before .... Camera picture tube and all that .... but aside from the size of the reflection , that still does not explain why the Apollo 'Sun' or any of the 'Sun' reflections ever looked like they did from any of the other space missions like Gemini . So I'm still waiting for you to show me that .... Did you forget you posted this comment yesterday ? We have TWO such images in the 14-66 magazine alone. I'll have more detailed information on visor reflection in the entire apollo catalog tomorrow when Ihave the time to pu tinto the process. Like I said before , I will be very interested in seeing ANY Apollo photograph , allegedly taken beyond Earth orbit , where the Sun has concentric spokes surrounding it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Well, good ... Now we can finally leave Mike out of this then .Yes, I have heard of the video blooming excuse before .... Camera picture tube and all that .... but aside from the size of the reflection , that still does not explain why the Apollo 'Sun' or any of the 'Sun' reflections ever looked like they did from any of the other space missions like Gemini . Here's another clip from a video still, proving the video bloom. Impossible for the entire artefact to be a simple reflection, since it overlaps the edge of the astronaut's visor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) Well , that's your excuse for why the visor reflections are so huge .... Interestingly enough I found another excuse on a web site defending the amomalies in the Apollo photography ... Here's their excuse ... It's quite a hoot ! "In some images, a huge light source can be seen reflected in the astronaut's visors. This has to be a very bright, nearby source. Apollo 17 Apollo 14 This argument is essentially a variation of the first argument. Occasional images, like the ones above (taken from the Apollo 17 EVA TV transmissions and Apollo 14), seem to show a very bright, huge light source taking up almost 25% of the astronauts visor. Moon Hoax advocates argue that this is proof of a large light source (a stage flood or a spot, again) positioned very close to the astronauts. What they are missing here is essentially the same geometric problem they missed with the "bent shadows" argument. As you can see from the previous image of Alan Bean (above), the gold-covered helmet visors that the astronauts wore were very convex shapes -- similar to automotive wide-angle side mirrors included on many current models (" Warning: objects may be closer than they appear ..."). Like the surface shadows in the earlier images above, this curved helmet has the effect of severely distorting the reflections, making them appear much smaller (and thus farther away) than they actually are. The problem: the sun, in the lunar helmet reflection pictured here, appears much larger (and therefore closer!) than it possibly could. Our explanation for this remarkable observation is firmly grounded in our investigation of the REAL conspiracy that NASA has worked so hard, for over 40 years, to cover-up: the presence of ancient, glass-like ruins on the Moon. It is these ruins, sticking up above the lunar horizon and physically intervening between the low-angle sun and the Apollo astronauts roaming across the surface, which create the magnified halo of scattered light seen in the gold visors. Since this area of "forward scattering" is much larger than the optical size of the sun itself, it makes the "reflection" appear disproportionately larger -- even in the curved gold visors -- than the view of a similar reflection of the sun from Ed White's helmet, photographed in Earth orbit on the Gemini 4 mission in 1965 (photographic comparison, below). " The real Sun looks very different from the Apollo "Sun" ... for obvious reasons . http://www.lunaranomalies.com/fake-moon.htm Edited October 23, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Well , that's your excuse for why the visor reflections are so huge .... Interestingly enough I found another excuse on a web site defending the amomalies in the Apollo photography ... Here's their excuse ... It's quite a hoot ! "In some images, a huge light source can be seen reflected in the astronaut's visors. This has to be a very bright, nearby source. Not an excuse: a reason. Or perhaps you can think of a different, plausible reason why the "artefact" quite clearly is NOT contained within the area of the curved visor? A video bloom effect explains this more than adequately, as well as explaining why the "reflections" appear larger than they should be. The size of the artefact (in the video still I posted) can NOT be represenative of the size of the lightsource, regardless of whether the lightsource is the sun or a superlight. It's video bloom: even if this image is taken on a soundstage (which I don't believe), the reflection in the helmet is still large due to video bloom. As for the other stuff you posted, it made me laugh the first time I read it. Huge, archaic glass structures on the moon indeed. Almost as funny as the "filmed on a soundstage" scenario! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 Well , that's your excuse for why the visor reflections are so huge .... Interestingly enough I found another excuse on a web site defending the amomalies in the Apollo photography ... Here's their excuse ... It's quite a hoot ! "In some images, a huge light source can be seen reflected in the astronaut's visors. This has to be a very bright, nearby source. Not an excuse: a reason. Or perhaps you can think of a different, plausible reason why the "artefact" quite clearly is NOT contained within the area of the curved visor? A video bloom effect explains this more than adequately, as well as explaining why the "reflections" appear larger than they should be. The size of the artefact (in the video still I posted) can NOT be represenative of the size of the lightsource, regardless of whether the lightsource is the sun or a superlight. It's video bloom: even if this image is taken on a soundstage (which I don't believe), the reflection in the helmet is still large due to video bloom. As for the other stuff you posted, it made me laugh the first time I read it. Huge, archaic glass structures on the moon indeed. Almost as funny as the "filmed on a soundstage" scenario! Well I'm still waiting for you photo experts to produce one out of thousands of photos allegedly taken on the Moon showing a circular Sun with concentric light spokes, either in the lunar sky or reflected in an astronot's visor . As for the other stuff you posted, it made me laugh the first time I read it. Huge, archaic glass structures on the moon indeed. Almost as funny as the "filmed on a soundstage" scenario! YES BUT NOWHERE NEAR AS FUNNY AS BELIEVING A 'C' SHAPED HAIR JUST HAPPENED TO END UP ON A PRINT RIGHT ON TOP OF A ROCK WITH ANOTHER C SHAPED HAIR RIGHT BELOW IT ON THE GROUND ! ....That was also one of the highlights of that web site that defends Apollo . http://www.lunaranomalies.com/images/c-rock7.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Is that changing the topic because you know you are getting beat? The C-rock has also been extensively discussed elsewhere. I'll post the details shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 Is that changing the topic because you know you are getting beat? The C-rock has also been extensively discussed elsewhere. I'll post the details shortly. "Getting beat" ? .... By what ? ... Video bloom and a 'C' rock ? ... You have to be kidding ! Please spare me your disertation on the 'C' rock and let's get back on TOPIC then .... To refresh your memory of what that topic is , please refer to the photos posted on page one ... and then show me this evidence , if you can . Well I'm still waiting for you photo experts to produce one out of thousands of photos allegedly taken on the Moon showing a circular Sun with concentric light spokes, either in the lunar sky or reflected in an astronot's visor . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Just for those interested - the C-rock: http://www.lunaranomalies.com/c-rock.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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