The Connally Thorax Wound and the Missing Bullet

[James R Gordon]

Jim,

When I responded in post 12, which I believe is the one you are referring to, I was specifically talking about 223/4 and a response that David Von Pein had made on Duncan’s forum.

I had specifically said that as far as the Single Bullet Theory is concerned there is no evidence to prove that, at 223/4, we have any proof that John Connally’s wrist was in a position to be wounded. David agreed, but posted frames 225/6 and directed my attention to the idea of Connally’s arm moving jerkily. Though I did not respond to the idea of the arm jerking, the images that David posted showed the wrist with the palm towards the chest. It was that was referring to. See image below:-

The actual entrance point on Connally’s wrist in on the Dorsal side just behind the thumb. That is indicated by the yellow circle. The exit point is on the Volar side and that is indicated by the red circle.

I was actually being sarcastic. My point was, since John Connally had the palm of his wrist towards his chest then had the bullet actually entered his wrist, as indicated by the yellow circle, then logic suggested that when it exited through the point indicated by the red circle it was bound to go on and re-enter the chest.

In case I have been misunderstood, I was not saying that is what happened. I was trying to illustrate how absurd David Von Pein was being, once he had made it clear that during the 223/4 period – as reflected by the 225/6 frames – John Connally had his arm [ most likely positioned ] with the palm, Volar side, towards his chest.

As to the general concept of when the wrist was injured, If we are assuming a shot, or wounding from behind, his arm has to be positioned at a -45º positioned – twisted 45º to the left. That ought to allow a trajectory entering through the Dorsal, the yellow circle, and out the Volar, the red circle. Any time when he has his wrist towards his chest, I cannot see how the wrist can be wounded in the way it was. I am not saying the wrist could not be struck – it could be struck – but the injuries would be different from what John Connally received.

As regard the wound to the thigh. The notion that the bullet continued its flight and ended up wounding the thigh is part of the SBT, being one of the seven wounds that needed to accounted for. It is not my position that the thigh wound was a follow-on from the wrist wound. To be fair it could have been, but it is not my position at the moment. Why it could have been is because of the difference between the size on the entrance wound - which was quite large - compared to the fragment the finally embedded itself in his thigh. The contradiction, between the size of the entrance wound compared to the size of the fragment was something that really puzzled Tom Shires. Indeed the size of the entrance wound may have been why on that first press conference Robert Shaw referred to a bullet in Connally's leg. Those who comment on this point, have not realised that while this press conference was going on Tom Shires was working on the leg wound.

Hope that helps.

James.

Edited May 23, 2013 by James R Gordon

[James R Gordon]

Martin,

From the research I have done, 223/25 period is a non-starter as a valid moment that John Connally could have received his thorax wound. My reason is firmly based on the wound trajectory through his outer chest. Stretching that trajectory line backwards it clearly creates a different trajectory line to the Kennedy trajectory line.

It is a simple matter of geometry. In an earlier post I commented about how to verify for yourself where such a trajectory would lead to. Because at this point John Connally is significantly turned to his right, mathematically the trajectory line must go in a direction away from President John F. Kennedy. As I have pointed out before, the only way you can marry these two trajectory lines is if you have the wound pass through Connally’s chest, and therefore potentially kill him.

Speaking for myself, I have addressed the lapel problem and have given a link to where it can be found.

I am not an expert on these bullet fragments, but I do know that Connally’s clothes make clear that these fragments could not have caused the damage to his jacket or shirt, with respect to the chest wound only. That is pretty much a verifiable fact.

On the other hand there may be a case to make, with these fragments, for the wrist and thigh wound. However I have not studied these fragments with respect to these wounds so I will reserve judgment.

You are right about being hasty to point to evidence being removed. That said, all the evidence I have assembled suggests that the bullet that created the chest wound exited Connally’s body as a substantially complete bullet. I showed how it was impossible for that bullet to create the wrist wound. That means at some point and somewhere in the car was a bullet that was essentially complete. All I said was that in the present evidence chain there is not such bullet whereas there had to be such a bullet just after the assassination.

You are quite right about the limo being shipped off for repairs.

James.

[Richard Hocking]

I use to be privvy to arguments about this ad nauseum over at the alt. forums. We should credit the best arguments against our side, not the weakest ones or the ones that confirm our biases. So let me make the case for the lapel flip

(A) The jacket shows a low exit, but the shirt shows it to be higher-- the more likely bet is that the jacket rode up. That said, it is still not directly over the lapel, however...

( The argument is that there was as much as a jacket bulge as a lapel flip. I think anyone who looks at high quality versions of the relevant frames can see it is not the swift motion we see that caused the lapel flip from Rookstool. I don't particularly admire the following person's approach to the case, but he has the relevant clip isolated:

http://www.jfk-online.com/tempz.html

... in short, whatever lapel flip happened, it was a result of the jacket being forced forward. This has also been reproduced in shooting experiments.

© You also have what appears to be a flapping of the hat and a sudden movement of JBC's torso.

I am not completely sold on it, but I will say that the LN logic on it never made sense either. Even if JBC is hit at 224, it doesn't mean JFK was hit at the same time. JFK is showing a reaction to a wounding, but he is blocked by the sign-- he could have been reacting for several frames. In fact, I believe the most likely JFK hit is between 190-207. Part of why I am so interested in this is because I think James has brought forth one of the more credible cases I have seen that the trajectory has to involve a different frame.

The lapel is actually secondary to the point about the limo. Again, I am not doing an Arlen Specter "where did the bullet go" argument in terms of "why wasn't it found?" I am open to the inferences that evidence was deep-sixed in this case, especially given the work by John Hunt. The bigger problem is why there isn't more damage to the limo. A bullet that faces little or no resistance from direct contact with bone and that is not tumbling will retain a large share of its velocity. I can't imagine this not doing serious damage to the limo, in noticeable ways.

-Stu

FWIW I for one am not arguing that Connally was not hit around the time of the lapel flip. In fact, based on Don Thomas's analysis of the acoustics, I think he most probably was struck at frame 225. I just feel, for the reasons previously stated, that the lapel flip probably had nothing to do with the exiting bullet and don't believe anyone positing that Connally was struck at a different point is obliged to explain the flip (if anything they should explain the order in the acoustic data but that's an argument for another day).

"Where did the bullet go" is actually a reasonable question. I have always felt that if there is one bullet that we CAN account for it is the one that struck Connally - because it was found in two pieces in the limousine. The Warren Commission's ballistics expert, Alfred Olivier, testified after conducting numerous experiments that "the Governor's wrist was not hit by a pristine or stable bullet." (5H83) Connally's wrist surgeon, Dr. Charles Gregory concurred, explaining that numerous fibers "had been carried into the wound from the dorsal surface to the bone and into the fracture. This would imply that an irregular missile had passed through the wrist...an irregular missile can carry debris into a wound and such debris was carried into the wound of the wrist." (6H98, 102.See also 4H119) Discussing the type of missile likely to have caused the wrist wound, Dr. Gregory specifically pointed to the two limo fragments, stating, "These items represent distorted bits of a missile, a jacket in one case, and part of a jacket and a lead core in the other.These are missiles having the characteristics which I mentioned earlier, which tend to carry organic debris into wounds and tend to create irregular wounds of entry. One of these, it seems to me, could conceivably have produced the injury which the Governor incurred in his wrist." (4H128) Additionally, Connally's other surgeon, Dr. Robert Shaw, (who had extensive experience treating gunshot wounds both at Parkland and in the Army during World War II) offered the opinion that the superficial thigh wound had been caused by a fragment that broke off after the bullet shattered the wrist. (6H91) I feel, based upon these expert opinions, that it's highly likely that CE567 and CE569 (the limo fragments) account for the bullet that struck Connally.

All that being said, I feel we should be cautious when we discuss the interior of the limousine and anything allegedly removed from it. Firstly, the fragments were not photographed where they were found. Secondly, and more importantly, the limo was handled in an appalling manner. As I'm sure we all know, Secret Service agents washed down the interior within hours of the assassination. And, IIRC, the limo was shipped off to be rebuilt before a proper forensic examination could be completed. (Am I right about that? Please someone correct me if I'm not)

Regarding a proper forensics examination, it never happened. SSA Gerald W. O'Rourke, "... Evidence was destroyed. O'Rourke said that on the day of the assassination, one agent was ordered to clean out the cars used in the motorcade, getting rid of blood and other evidence. The agent told O'Rourke that he found a piece of skull, asked the White House doctor what to do with it, and was told to destroy it." * from Chapter 13 of Survivor's Guilt

At that time, the Limo murder scene was compromised.

After the Limo was flown back to Washington, It was inspected at the White House Garage by Deputy Chief Paul J. Paterni and Floyd Boring. I don't have my notes handy, but I believe Kellerman and others may have also "inspected" the Limo before the FBI arrived to do their inspection.

[James R Gordon]

Martin,

I have expanded, in detail, why the bullet that caused damage to the shirt and jacket – with regard to the chest wound – described a bullet that was essentially a complete bullet.

This is described on pages 23 to 27.

You will find the article at:-

https://www.transferbigfiles.com/1c28ce30-e41b-4278-90db-af140951408e/_KH-Vk3JIN_bHu1wqNZrnA2

You should find all my reasons there.

James.