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Nutters come out regarding the latest MAS crash

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NOVO-OGARYOVO (Moscow Region), July 21 (RIA Novosti) – Russian President Vladimir Putin said no one should use the July 17 Boeing crash in Ukraine for their own political goals.

“Speaking about the terrible tragic events that occurred in the sky above Donetsk, I would like to say once again how we in Russia treat these events that today happen in Ukraine. We have repeatedly called on all the conflicting sides to immediately stop bloodshed and sit down at the negotiating table,” Putin told Rossiya 24 TV Channel.

“I can say for sure that if military actions in eastern Ukraine had not resumed on June 28, this tragedy would have not occurred. At the same time, no one should and has the right to use this tragedy to achieve their own political goals. Such events should unite people and not separate,” he said.

The Russian leader said people responsible for the situation in the region need to increase their own responsibility before their own people and people of the countries where the victims of the tragedy come from.

“On its part, Russia is doing everything possible so that the conflict in eastern Ukraine passes from today’s military phase to the phase of discussions at the negotiating table through peaceful and diplomatic means,” the president said.

Putin also called for the investigation into the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 plane crash in Ukraine to be carried out under the auspices of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO).

“Everything should be done to ensure the secure work of international experts at the site of tragedy,” Putin said adding that currently representatives of Donbas and Donetsk, as well as Ukraine’s emergencies officials and Malaysian experts are working at the scene.

“It is essential that a full-fledged group of experts under the auspices of ICAO, related international commission work at the site of catastrophe,” Putin said.

“Everything should be done to ensure its full and absolute security, and necessary humanitarian corridors should be provided for its work,” he stressed.

Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) leader Alexander Borodai said Sunday independence supporters discovered objects resembling the flight data recorders which have been taken to Donetsk.

Independence supporters plan to transfer the flight data recorders to experts from the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) and refuse to give them to Kiev fearing that results of the investigation may be falsified.

The Malaysia Airlines plane en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed on July 17 near the town of Torez in Ukraine’s Donetsk Region, killing 298 people.

Most of the people aboard the flight were Dutch, but there were also victims from many other nations, including Malaysia, Australia, Indonesia, the United Kingdom, Germany, Belgium and Philippines.

Kiev has accused independence supporters of downing the Malaysian airliner. Self-defense militia members insist that they have no required technology to shoot a target flying this high.


Naturally the feedom fighters are concerned about the junta because, not just because they are fascists. but because of their continual deceptive nature (which of course is a fundamental fascist trait} as demonstrated by the complicity in the lies demonstrated by the western medias narrative. Clearly a ceasefire is in order and the juntas backers are responsible to make sure they adhere to such. (A big ask, I know. A bit like expecting murdoch admitting he's a criminal, let alone a twit, or bush/blair admitting to their war crimes.)

The freedom fighters are certainly ready to accept a real ceasefire and dialogue.

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MH17 Wreckage Seems to Show It Was Struck with Bullets and a R-60 Air to Air Missile

July 25, 2014 The Other

Russian air control radars apparently registered an unidentified blip suddenly appearing on screen close to flight MH17 at the moment it was apparently hit; this blip later disappeared. Kartopolov insisted the radar signature was a Ukrainian military jet, apparently an Su-25 that could have attacked Flight MH17, using its two R-60 short-range heat seeker “shoot-and-forget air-to-air,” which these military planes are designed to carry for self defense.

According to the chief of staff of the Russian Air Force, Lieutenant-General Igor Markushev, who together with Kartopolov presented the official Russian outline of the MH17 crash, Ukrainian officials deny any of their military aircraft were in air at the time over Donbas, “but you see that is not so,” which is an indication of guilt, he alleged.

Further evidence to support this claim is shown below.


The R-60 missile hole in MH17 notice rounded bullet holes bottom right going in which differs from shratnel holes coming out on the far left. Notice the scrapping on the right hand side with the metal dented in and the burn marks on the left and the metal pushed out.


More rounded bullets holes in the front bagage area of flight MH17


The section which was struck on MH17


Comparison of a huamn to BUK missile in greenwhich is too large when compared to the impact zone on MH17

for more info on R-60 Air-to-Air missiles see



Edited by Steven Gaal
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OSCE Bociurkiw, we saw signs of heavy machine guns, no sign of missle


That's not quite correct. He did say say it "looked" like machine guns fire... but he also said that they were not qualified to tell if there was missile damage, so they would not even be able to tell even if it was there. Yet people who do have the expertise say it does look like a ground-to-air missile strike:



It is impossible from these photographs of the damaged plane to determine what specific model of missile was used. But the SA-11 is a member of a class of weapon that carries a fragmenting warhead with a proximity fuze. If a missile like that functioned as designed, it would cause damage like that evident in the debris of Flight 17.

“The perforation holes that are visible indicate that they are consistent with a foreign object entering from the exterior of the aircraft to the interior of the aircraft, given the contour of the aluminum around a majority of the perforations as well as the visible blistering of the paint around some of the holes themselves,” Reed Foster, an analyst at IHS Jane’s, wrote in an assessment provided to The Times.

He added: “Most of the smaller holes look to be caused by a high-velocity projectile, as opposed to simple shearing or tearing caused by the forceful separation of the panel from the airframe.”

Mr. Foster also noted that the shrapnel damage was different from what he would expect after an aircraft engine explosion, which could cause “longer, thinner, oblique tears across the aircraft skin.”

His observations were consistent with the profile of surface-to-air antiaircraft missiles designed to destroy fast-moving military aircraft at high elevations.

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MH17 Was Forced by Two Fighter Escorts Into Path

The Fighter ‘Escort’


SU-27 flanker

Radar evidence suggests that MH17 was ‘escorted’, i.e. forced, into the kill-zone by two Ukrainian fighters. Some reporting suggests that these might have been Su-25 Frogfoots (Frogfeet?). It has been pointed that the Su-25 only has a ceiling of FL250, i.e. 25,000 feet, but the Russian Ministry of Defence, who ought to know, state that it can reach FL330 for a limited period.

One has to be careful with the performance envelope of a ground-attack aircraft like the Su-25. The service ceiling figure will be for an aircraft with full military equipment, such as armor plate. You don’t need armor when shooting down an unarmed airliner. The 25 also has an air refuelling probe, which adds weight and increases drag. I suspect that a lightened Su-25 could easily reach and maintain 33,000 feet.

However, the escort was more likely Su-27s. They are highly agile and powerfully armed. A 777 captain isn’t going to take on a couple of Su-27s. Their role was to make sure that the target airliner followed Kiev ATC’s direction to fly over territory controlled by separatists, so that they could be blamed. Russian satellite overheads show several Buks, or shall we say Buk-like vehicles, positioned close to rebel territory, within range of the interception point.


+++++++++++++++++++++++ Gee if you have the facts why lie ????? see below


‘Wrong time, altered images’: Moscow slams Kiev’s MH17 satellite data
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Germans Clear Russia in MH-17 Case


The West’s case blaming Russia for the shoot-down of a Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukraine last July appears to be crumbling as the German foreign intelligence agency has concluded that the anti-aircraft missile battery involved came from a Ukrainian military base, according to a report by the German newsmagazine Der Spiegel.

The Obama administration and other Western governments have pointed the finger of blame at Russia for supposedly supplying a sophisticated BUK missile system to ethnic Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine who then allegedly used the weapon on July 17 to shoot down what they thought was a Ukrainian military plane but turned out to be Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, killing all 298 people onboard.

The Russians denied providing the rebels with the weapon and the rebels denied shooting down the plane. But the tragedy gave the U.S. State Department the emotional leverage to get the European Union to impose tougher economic sanctions on Russia, touching off a trade war that has edged Europe toward a new recession.

But now the narrative has shifted. The German intelligence agency, the Bundesnachrichtendienst or BND, asserted that while it believes rebels were responsible for shooting down the plane, they supposedly did so with an anti-aircraft battery captured from a Ukrainian military base, according to Der Spiegel.

The BND also concluded that photos supplied by the Ukrainian government about the MH-17 tragedy “have been manipulated,” Der Spiegel reported. And, the BND disputed Russian government claims that a Ukrainian fighter jet had been flying close to MH-17 just before it crashed, the magazine said.

None of the BND’s evidence to support its conclusions has been made public — and I was subsequently told by a European official that the evidence was not as conclusive as the magazine article depicted.

Der Spiegel said the information given to members of a parliamentary committee on Oct. 8 included satellite images and other photography. What’s less clear, however, is how the BND could determine the precise command-and-control of the anti-aircraft missile system amid the chaotic military situation that existed in eastern Ukraine last July.

At the time, the Ukrainian army and allied militias were mounting an offensive against ethnic Russian rebels who were resisting a U.S.-backed coup regime that ousted elected President Viktor Yanukovych last February, touching off what quickly became a nasty civil war.

Spearheading Kiev’s summer offensive were pro-government militias, some of which were filled with neo-Nazi extremists and financed by Ukrainian billionaire oligarchs including Ihor Kolomoisky, who had been appointed governor of the southeastern Dnipropetrovsk Region. The ethnic Russian rebels also were a disorganized lot with poor command and control.


Source and full story: Robert Parry, Consortium News, 20 October 2014

Edited by Steven Gaal
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Germans Clear Russia in MH-17 Case



Source and full story: Robert Parry, Consortium News, 20 October 2014

What a complete LIE on Parry (not Gaal's) part! The headline of the cited article was (emphasis mine) "Deadly Ukraine Crash: German Intelligence Claims Pro-Russian Separatists Downed MH17". Gaal however was guilt of being too lazy to have checked this before posting.


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What a complete LIE on Parry (not Gaal's) part! The headline of the cited article was (emphasis mine) "Deadly Ukraine Crash: German Intelligence Claims Pro-Russian Separatists Downed MH17". Gaal however was guilt of being too lazy to have checked this before posting. // COLBY

I dont know I use a strange thing called GOOGLE. Ever hear of it LEN ??

German Intelligence Agency Blames Pro-Russian Rebels for Downing of Flight MH17
Newsweek - 5 days ago
NEWSWEEK (LOON RAG ?? Gaal) German Intelligence Agency Blames Pro-Russian Rebels for Downing of Flight MH17
Filed: 10/20/14 at 11:41 AM
Toys are placed on front of wreckage at the site of the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 on October 13, 2014. Shamil Zhumatov/Reuters

A German intelligence agency has determined that pro-Russian rebels were responsible for the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17, which killed 298 people in eastern Ukraine in July.

The Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), the agency responsible for foreign intelligence, reportedly gathered information suggesting that Russian loyalists captured a BUK air defence missile system at a Ukrainian military base and fired a missile that exploded in the vicinity of the aircraft, bringing it down.

The BND carried out a detailed investigation into flight MH17 and eventually presented their findings to members of the parliamentary committee responsible for monitoring German intelligence services on October 8th.

Newsweek Magazine is Back In Print

According to German news magazine Der Spiegel, Gerhard Schindler, the BND’s president, used satellite images and photo evidence to support his case.

He also told the panel that Russian claims the missile had been fired by Ukrainian soldiers and that a Ukrainian fighter jet had been flying close to the passenger jet were false.

Schindler was quoted as saying of the crash, which killed all 298 passengers and crew, "it was pro-Russian separatists”. He said that his agency had “ample evidence" to implicate them, though so far none of it has been made public.

Both the Russian and Ukrainian governments initially accused each other of causing the crash. Ukrainian officials attributed the incident to separatist rebels and accused Moscow of arming them.

Russian officials have repeatedly denied any involvement, claiming that the fatal missile was fired by Ukrainian soldiers. In response to these allegations, Ukraine’s President Poroshenko declared that the "armed forces of Ukraine did not take action against any airborne targets".

A Dutch investigative commission reviewed the aircraft’s black box in September and determined that the aeroplane broke up in mid-air after being hit by “a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside”. The commission, however, avoided attributing blame for the crash to either side.

European governments have so far done the same, although the U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said shortly after the crash that there was strong evidence for Russian complicity. The UK Foreign Office said their view was unchanged on the crash

The US state department previously outlined the evidence that separatists armed by Russia had shot down the plane in a statement which was posted to its website a few days after the crash.

It cited Russia’s extensive arming of fighters in the region, as well as intelligence which suggested that the Moscow had been providing training to rebels at a facility in south west Russia, an effort which “included training on air defense systems".

The statement also revealed that American authorities had detected the launch of a surface-to-air missile in a separatist-controlled part of Ukraine at around the time that MH17 disappeared.

Just hours after MH17 was shot down, Ukrainian security forces released what they claimed were intercepted recordings of calls between a Russian intelligence officer and pro-Russian rebel leaders, discussing the downing of the plane.

A few days later, a pro-Russian militant told the Italian newspaper Corriere Della Sera that his unit shot down MH17 after mistaking the passenger aircraft for a military one.

Flight MH17, a Boeing 777-200 travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, was in transit over war-torn eastern Ukraine when it was shot down. Nearly two-thirds of the passengers were Dutch citizens.

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Nice own goal (own Gaal?) yes according to Der Speigel the BND concluded the Russian's puppets not the Ukranine gov't were responsible for the shootdown


Non experts said it "looked like" bullets vs. experts who say it was a missile, the loons of course think the former is "conclusive".

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Non experts said it "looked like" bullets vs. experts who say it was a missile, the loons of course think the former is "conclusive".



OSCE Monitor Mentions Machine Gun “Bullet ... - Global Research

Aug 3, 2014 ... OSCE Monitor Mentions Machine Gun “Bullet Holes” in MH17, No ... OSCE
monitor Michael Bociurkiw mentions bullet holes in #MH17, not able ...
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Sorry dude they guy said it "ALMOST looked like" machine gun fire, do you not know what the highlighted word means? If not look it up. In any case as he made clear he is NOT an expert. His areas of expertise are communications, social media and journalism I ound no inications he has any experience with aviation, engineering military etc.

And decide if you want to push the a) it was shot down by Ukrainian planes or the B) it was shot down by a Ukrainian SAM theory

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