Pat Speer on Larry Sturdivan on Black Op

[Pat Speer]

I was a recent guest of Len Osanic's on Black Op radio. We discussed Larry Sturdivan's testimony before the HSCA, after which Len played Sturdivan's testimony. if you're not familiar with my work regarding Sturdivan, I suspect you'll find the program most informative.

http://blackopradio.com/archives2015.html

[David Von Pein]

Related Link....

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/hsca-testimony-miscellaneous-audio.html

-----------

Edited February 7, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Steven Gaal]

David Mantik vs. Pat Speer on the JFK Autopsy X-rays: A Critique of http://www.patspeer.com/
Chapters 18a, 18b, and 19b by David W. Mantik

http://www.ctka.net/reviews/mantik_speer.html

))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

http://www.ctka.net/2014-mantik/essay/Harper2.html

If I were asked for my opinion of what really happened in Dealey Plaza, I would introduce the evidence for multiple headshots (Appendix K).[87] In particular, the evidence for a tangential headshot (entering near the right ear, quite possibly from the Grassy Knoll) is extremely compelling; this shot likely caused the large posterior hole in the skull, as seen by so many witnesses.[88] Clint Hill's recollection of a very late shot is now especially pertinent; he even recalled the large hole at the rear of the skull; that developed just after this final shot, as he approached the limousine well after Z-313 (see the prior footnote about Hill). And, of course, many, many witnesses recalled at least one shot after a headshot.

William "Tim" McIntyre corroborates Hill's account. He rode on the running board of the follow-up car (right behind Clint Hill). He recalls saying to Jack Ready: "What the hell was that?" McIntyre feels certain that Clint Hill left the running board and ran to the limousine before the third shot was fired.[89]

Motorcycle cop Bobby Hargis (and many other eyewitnesses, too) recalled obvious tissue debris (and even bone fragments) that flew to the left rear. A tangential shot (from the right front) is the most likely trigger for such an ejection of an occipital bone like HF. In that case, HF would have landed on the grass to the left, probably somewhere opposite the stairs to the Grassy Knoll; especially if the final headshot(s) occurred after Z-313. After that, someone moved HF to Harper's discovery site. If this did not happen, then someone will have to explain how HF was ejected from the right parietal area at Z-313 (from either a frontal or a posterior shot; take your pick) and then flew 117 feet (in violation of Lattimer's experimental evidence) against the wind to eventually land to the left of the limousine. I leave that to others to explain. That is not my scenario.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Pat Speer]

David Mantik vs. Pat Speer on the JFK Autopsy X-rays: A Critique of http://www.patspeer.com/

Chapters 18a, 18b, and 19b by David W. Mantik

http://www.ctka.net/reviews/mantik_speer.html

))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

http://www.ctka.net/2014-mantik/essay/Harper2.html

If I were asked for my opinion of what really happened in Dealey Plaza, I would introduce the evidence for multiple headshots (Appendix K).[87] In particular, the evidence for a tangential headshot (entering near the right ear, quite possibly from the Grassy Knoll) is extremely compelling; this shot likely caused the large posterior hole in the skull, as seen by so many witnesses.[88] Clint Hill's recollection of a very late shot is now especially pertinent; he even recalled the large hole at the rear of the skull; that developed just after this final shot, as he approached the limousine well after Z-313 (see the prior footnote about Hill). And, of course, many, many witnesses recalled at least one shot after a headshot.

William "Tim" McIntyre corroborates Hill's account. He rode on the running board of the follow-up car (right behind Clint Hill). He recalls saying to Jack Ready: "What the hell was that?" McIntyre feels certain that Clint Hill left the running board and ran to the limousine before the third shot was fired.[89]

Motorcycle cop Bobby Hargis (and many other eyewitnesses, too) recalled obvious tissue debris (and even bone fragments) that flew to the left rear. A tangential shot (from the right front) is the most likely trigger for such an ejection of an occipital bone like HF. In that case, HF would have landed on the grass to the left, probably somewhere opposite the stairs to the Grassy Knoll; especially if the final headshot(s) occurred after Z-313. After that, someone moved HF to Harper's discovery site. If this did not happen, then someone will have to explain how HF was ejected from the right parietal area at Z-313 (from either a frontal or a posterior shot; take your pick) and then flew 117 feet (in violation of Lattimer's experimental evidence) against the wind to eventually land to the left of the limousine. I leave that to others to explain. That is not my scenario.

My recent appearance on Black Op had nothing to do with the X-rays or David Mantik, so I'm not sure why you thought the link to Mantik's article was relevant, Steven.

If, however, you posted the link in an attempt to discredit me, you should be aware of the following facts.

1. When I began writing about the medical evidence, I deferred to Mantik's conclusions on a number of points.

2. As the years passed I gained a greater understanding of x-rays, and came to believe Mantik was wrong on a number of points.

3. I was invited to speak at the 2009 COPA conference, which made Mantik and his supporters nervous.

4. There was an attempt to sabotage my appearance at the COPA conference, in that someone tried to get Mantik to speak after me so he could tell everyone I didn't know what I was talking about.

5. The late John Judge became aware of this and refused to invite Mantik to the conference.

6. Mantik made an appearance at the Lancer conference instead.

7. In Mantik's appearance he claimed my theory the white patch on the x-rays represented overlapping bone was without foundation. He also claimed that the bullet entrance on the Harper fragment, when the fragment was placed in Dr. Angel's orientation, was on the top of the head (and not on the temple as I'd long been claiming), and made no sense.

8. In Mantik's appearance he also discussed the ARRB's approach to a Dr. Fitzpatrick, a forensic radiologist who had dismissed Mantik's findings. This was news to most of the research community, but was something long known to Mantik's biggest supporter, Doug Horne, who had spoken to Fitzpatrick on the ARRB's behalf 12 years earlier.

9. When Horne's notes on his discussion with Fitzpatrick were published a few months later it was revealed that long before I had come to conclude the white patch on the x-rays was overlapping bone, Dr. Fitzpatrick had told Doug Horne the white patch was overlapping bone. This proved to me that when Mantik told the Lancer conference my theory had no foundation, he was blowing smoke at his audience at my expense, as he knew full well "my" theory was in fact the theory of the most recent forensic radiologist to examine the x-rays.

10. This led to some nastiness.

11. In 2013, Mantik and I were invited to the Wecht conference in Pittsburgh to air out our differences.

12. It ended up being a relatively cordial affair, with Mantik admitting: 1, that he'd misread the x-ray of the Harper fragment, and that the bullet entrance on the fragment was exactly where I claimed it was when the fragment is viewed in the Angel orientation; 2, that the white patch was not on the back of the head, and did not cover up an exit wound (as claimed by a strong supporter of Mantik's named James Fetzer), but was on the side of the head (as claimed by me); and 3, that the Harper fragment was indeed found a good distance down Elm Street beyond the limo's location at frame 313 of the Z-film (as claimed by me) and not behind the location of the limo at frame 313 (as claimed by many if not most conspiracy theorists). I appreciated Mantik's acknowledgement of his mistake, and his willingness to admit I was right on several issues on which his biggest supporters had claimed I was wrong.

13. I have spoken to David a number of times since, in Dallas, Bethesda, and San Francisco, and am glad to say we remain friendly.

14. In his most recent writings, moreover, Dr. Mantik has taken to claiming a bullet entered Kennedy's right parietal area, and created a tangential wound. This is what I have been claiming for a decade or so. I find it incredibly ironic, for that matter, that he now holds a bullet entered where I said the Harper fragment proved a bullet entered, but clings to his belief the Harper fragment exploded from the back of the head. Oh well, he has admitted one embarrassing mistake. That's more than most will ever do.

In short, the article in CTKA is outdated and fails to reflect that Mantik has acknowledged a key mistake, and that he and I are now friendly.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Pat Speer

[Steven Gaal]

The Harper Fragment Revisited - and JFK's Head Wounds:
A Final Synthesis - Part 2 By David W. Mantik

Posted November 20, 2014.

Section 3. Critiques of Previous Reconstructions:

=

http://www.ctka.net/2014-mantik/essay/Harper2.html

=

But so far we have avoided a direct question: Could a posterior shot have ejected HF? The WC would have said so (had they focused on HF); and the HSCA did say so (Figure 4). Of course, each would have designated HF as parietal bone. Each of them permitted only one headshot, another distinct difference from current scenarios. But the long flight distance from Z-313 (about 117 feet), especially against the wind, to Harper's site is formidable, especially in view of Lattimer's experimental distances of 20-40 feet. Furthermore, why would a bone from the right parietal area end up 25 feet to the left of the street? This troublesome scenario is yet one more reason to question where HF actually landed; no matter whether it was occipital or parietal. But this discussion does not factor in much other evidence that HF was occipital (as discussed below). That additional evidence will decide the case.

So what do I really think? My conclusion, after reviewing all of this evidence (regarding the HF discovery site) is that we cannot now know where HF initially landed. Most likely it did not land where Harper found it. In my opinion, therefore, Harper's discovery site is useless for deciding where HF originated (in the skull). Based on his discovery site alone, we simply cannot decide between occipital and parietal. Also consider this: even if Harper had (accurately) labeled a map when he found the bone, already by then too much time (29 hours) had passed to be sure that HF had not been moved before he got there. So instead, the issue of occipital versus parietal must be decided by other criteria, which we shall soon explore.

If I were asked for my opinion of what really happened in Dealey Plaza, I would introduce the evidence for multiple headshots (Appendix K).[87] In particular, the evidence for a tangential headshot (entering near the right ear, quite possibly from the Grassy Knoll) is extremely compelling; this shot likely caused the large posterior hole in the skull, as seen by so many witnesses.[88] Clint Hill's recollection of a very late shot is now especially pertinent; he even recalled the large hole at the rear of the skull; that developed just after this final shot, as he approached the limousine well after Z-313 (see the prior footnote about Hill). And, of course, many, many witnesses recalled at least one shot after a headshot.

William "Tim" McIntyre corroborates Hill's account. He rode on the running board of the follow-up car (right behind Clint Hill). He recalls saying to Jack Ready: "What the hell was that?" McIntyre feels certain that Clint Hill left the running board and ran to the limousine before the third shot was fired.[89]

Motorcycle cop Bobby Hargis (and many other eyewitnesses, too) recalled obvious tissue debris (and even bone fragments) that flew to the left rear. A tangential shot (from the right front) is the most likely trigger for such an ejection of an occipital bone like HF. In that case, HF would have landed on the grass to the left, probably somewhere opposite the stairs to the Grassy Knoll; especially if the final headshot(s) occurred after Z-313. After that, someone moved HF to Harper's discovery site. If this did not happen, then someone will have to explain how HF was ejected from the right parietal area at Z-313 (from either a frontal or a posterior shot; take your pick) and then flew 117 feet (in violation of Lattimer's experimental evidence) against the wind to eventually land to the left of the limousine.

I leave that to others to explain. That is not my scenario.

Footnotes:

40. My initial essay on the 6.5 mm object is in Fetzer 1998, pp. 120-137.

41. Myopic eyes are wonderful for such close-up viewing. My situation was almost equivalent, for a normal pair of eyes, to using a jeweler's loupe.

42. Fetzer 1998, pp. 120-137.

43. Walt Brown (undated) quotes Robertson at http://www.manuscriptservice.com/DPQ/robert~1.htm: "The Harper fragment cannot be occipital bone, because the occipital bone is present in the x-rays."

At the AARC conference in Washington, DC, September 26-28, 2014, Robertson clarified his opinion of the frontal bone and added this e-mail message to me on September 29:

If I have ever said absolutely no frontal bone is missing it was a misstatement. I believe, as I said, that a bullet exited just in front of the coronal suture and by definition this would mean some is missing but in my opinion not a significant amount and surely not enough to allow any of the major fragments to have originated from there but maybe the smallest fragment from the limo. I usually say it is fractured but intact. In my view this is a minor point.

44. The precise position of bone islands C and D is critical, as will be seen later. That is because they define exactly how large the residual hole in the skull was. In my radiology suite, these bone islands on JFK's lateral skull X-ray could be exactly mimicked on the X-ray of my model skull (by shifting the lead wires on the model skull surface until they matched positions and sizes of C and D on JFK's lateral X-ray). The same process was used with the AP X-ray; again matching bone islands C and D from JFK's AP X-ray to the bone islands (as outlined by lead wires) on the model skull. This process was then iterated (alternating between lateral and AP X-rays) until the match was not only precise, but also consistent between the lateral and the AP. That is what I did in our fluoroscopy suite. No one else has performed this simple, yet critical, experiment. Without this critical information, bone islands C and D cannot be definitively located on the skull surface, and the risk of an incorrect reconstruction ensues. This is the trap that Randy Robertson fell into in his own reconstruction. During his AARC lecture (September 27, 2014), at my request (and to my surprise) he outlined his site for the triangular (aka delta) fragment; it was directly superimposed over bone islands C and D.

45. http://www.paulseaton.com/jfk/F8/Fox_Eight.htm. Paul Seaton has been an active online discussant at his own web site, cited here.

46. That the White Patch was indeed not part of the original X-ray set is consistent with Humes's odd reaction to these lateral X-rays during his ARRB deposition: "I don't understand why that is... You'd have to have some radiologist tell me about that. I can't make that out... I don't understand this great void there. I don't know what that's all about" (Fetzer 2000, p. 450).

47. Ironically, Dr. John Ebersole (who is a strong candidate for alteration of the JFK X-rays) told me that he wrote detective stories.

48. Robertson was also wrong to state that the 6.5 mm object was visible on the AP X-ray during the autopsy and that it represented an authentic bullet fragment (http://www.manuscriptservice.com/DPQ/robert~1.htm). By doing so Robertson ignored Larry Sturdivan's personal experience in ballistics. (Sturdivan had even testified for the HSCA.) Sturdivan had never seen a real bullet fragment (deposited on the outside of a skull) in his entire career; he concluded that the 6.5 mm object could not possibly represent metal ( The JFK Myths (2005), p. 193.) Robertson also failed to explain how an inside cross section of a bullet could cleanly dissociate itself from the ends of the bullet and deposit itself on the outside of the skull. (The nose and tail of this bullet were officially found inside the limousine.) Finally, while before the ARRB, each of the three JFK pathologists independently testified (under oath) that he had not seen anything like this 6.5 mm object on the X-rays during the autopsy. Even more ominously, when I asked Dr. John Ebersole (the JFK autopsy radiologist) about this object, he promptly changed the subject; and never again discussed the JFK case.

Riley's interpretation of the 6.5 mm object was even more fantastic: he also believed that it was authentic, but concluded that it lay in the supraorbital area; even though it obviously lies well inside the orbit ("The Head Wounds of JFK: One Bullet Cannot Account for the Injuries," The Third Decade, March 1993, pp. 1-15.) This was a colossal blunder, one that only a neophyte in radiology would make. Furthermore, such a fundamental mistake necessarily led to a new paradox, i.e., in Riley's scenario the 7 x 2 mm fragment (seen on the AP X-ray) then has no partner image on the lateral X-ray. Riley simply forgot to consider this repercussion of his interpretation.

49. Also see "Notes on JFK's Skull Fragments," compiled by Vince Palamara at http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara/skullfragments.html: "Dr. Randy Robertson, at COPA 1996 [DM: October 18-20; see http://www.assassinationweb.com/c96.htm], showed slides of X-rays of the Harper fragment that the FBI took..." Douglas Horne recalls seeing the HF X-ray at the Archives in May 1996 (see Appendix B here).

50. Fetzer 2000, p. 292.

51. Enemy of the Truth (year unstated), Sherry Fiester, pp. 198, 211-212, and 248-249. For more on the utility (or futility) of beveling, see footnote 352 in that brilliant and immortal essay, "How Five Investigations into JFK's Medical Autopsy Evidence Got It Wrong" by Gary L. Aguilar, MD, and Kathy Cunningham (May 2003) at http://history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_6.htm#_edn351.

52. Livingstone (1995), p. 313. I have been unable to locate McCarthy's original paper. However, that beveling can occur at odd sites is suggested in these scientific citations offered by Dr. Gary Aguilar (e-mail of April 7, 2014): (A) Dixon DS. Keyhole lesions in gunshot wounds of the skull and direction of fire. J Forensic Sci 1982; 27:555-66 and ( Coe JI. External beveling of entrance wounds by handguns. Am J Forensic Med Pathol 1982; 3:215-9 and © Baik S, Uku JM, Sikirica M. A case of external beveling with an entrance wound to the skull made by a small caliber rifle bullet. Am J Forensic Med Pathol 1991;12:334-6 and (D) Donohue ER, Kalelkar MB, Richmond JM, Teas SS. Atypical gunshot wounds of entrance; an empirical study. J Forensic Sci 1984; 29:379-88 and (E) Lantz PE. An atypical, indeterminate-range, cranial gunshot wound of entrance resembling an exit wound. Am J Forensic Med Pathol 1994; 15(1):5-9.

53. In the Military Review of January 1967 the pathologists were persuaded to change their minds; they signed the document that had been prepared for them by the Justice Department. In this document a beveled exit wound was reported at the junction of the (apparent) frontal and parietal bones, at the periphery of the large skull defect. Before the ARRB, when pressed by Jeremy Gunn (at Horne's suggestion) about this change, Humes put his head in his hands, stared down at the document, and said, "I don't know who wrote this" (Horne e-mail of July 9, 2013).

54. I have often discussed this mistake (about the frontal bone) in my essays and lectures. In fact, Dr. John J. Fitzpatrick, the forensic radiologist for the ARRB, agreed with me that the frontal bone was present only up to the hairline: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=145280&relPageId=225. See page 225 of this document, lower 1/3 of the page. The HSCA would not have welcomed our conclusion; nor would Randy Robertson. In a letter to Jack White (October 7, 1995; copy in my files) Robertson stated: "The frontal bone is intact and the large late arriving fragment CAN NOT [sic; emphasis by RR] therefore be frontal bone." Robertson was quite aware that he thereby disagreed with Angel. (Robertson e-mail of August 11, 2014: "The Delta [DM: triangular] fragment was posterior parietal...") In fact, Robertson not only disagreed with Angel and with John J. Fitzpatrick (a fellow radiologist and a consultant for the ARRB), but he has also disagreed with pathologist Boswell (who sketched some absent frontal bone; as well as absent occipital bone). Robertson has also disagreed with another radiology colleague (Gerald M. McDonnel, a consultant for the HSCA), who reported some absent frontal bone. Perhaps Robertson's unconventional views should not surprise us though; after all, Robertson disagrees with the key radiologist in the case, John Ebersole, who was the only radiologist at JFK's autopsy. It cannot be emphasized enough that Ebersole, despite seeing the JFK skull X-rays (at the autopsy), still told me that JFK had a "big" hole in the back of his head. So, on this extremely fundamental issue, Robertson disagrees with Ebersole. Remarkably, Robertson apparently does not accept any witness who reported seeing a large hole in the occiput, apparently not even any of the eight physicians at Bethesda (see footnote 31).

Regarding McDonnel, John Hunt notes at http://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/ADemonstrableImpossibility/ADemonstrableImpossibility.htm: "Among other findings, McDonnel reported that there was a '[n]early complete loss of right parietal bone, the upper portion of the right temporal bone, and a portion of the posterior [rear] aspect of the right frontal bone'" [DM: Hunt's italics and brackets]. McDonnel knew full well that the posterior aspect of the frontal bone was missing. Yet Weston, Baden, and the FPP majority disregarded the opinion of the radiology/computer expert they consulted on this single point...the FPP tacitly concluded that the frontal bone was intact."

55. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/harper1.htm.

56. For the definition (with image) of "cranial vault" see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cranial_vault. The cranial vault clearly includes occipital bone.

57. Atlas and Textbook of Human Anatomy, Johannes Sobatta, edited with additions by J. Playfair McMurrich (1906), p. 44.

58. Billy Harper has recently appeared online: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmFdfvDT6GQ. Particularly note his indication of the HF discovery site (he seems to point east of the site identified on his map although the camera does not track this), but also note his verbal description of HF as from the upper rear of the skull.

59. National Archives, Warren Commission CD-5. Cf. Six Seconds in Dallas (1967), Josiah Thompson, Appendix F, pp. 301-302. (Elm Street is said to be 40 feet wide.)

60. Assuming that the ejection was at Z-313, Tim Nicholson has estimated the distance (to the Harper discovery site) as 117 feet give or take10 feet. Cranor has not contacted Harper since about 1996, but Harper did later write to Vince Palamara (9/15/98): "Your letter to my uncle Dr. Jack C. Harper has been forwarded to me for response. My uncle told me that the fragment I found was from the occipital area of the skull. I have seen drawings in various publications that would indicate that it belonged to this region. With regard to the question of the existence [of] photographs, it is my understanding that my uncle gave his pictures to an assassination investigative agency" (http:mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara/skullfragments.html).

61. http://patspeer.com/chapter16b%3Adigginginthedirt/Drmantikandmrharper.jpg.

62. Is it just possible that the FBI meant "street" where it wrote "spot"? That is, perhaps the quotation should be "...just south of the street where President Kennedy was assassinated." If so, that curiously agrees with the distance of Harper's site from the street (as shown in this map), which seems a little eerie, although the FBI measurement report by itself would still not tell us where along the street it was found.

63. See Appendix K for a more detailed discussion of all of these issues. Cf. my review of Enemy of the Truth by Sherry Fiester at http://www.ctka.net/2013/eot_review.html. In particular, focus on a devastating depiction (Figure 5 in my review) of how the JFK X-rays flagrantly contradict a headshot (from either front or back) at Z-313, and therefore hurl the traditional single headshot scenario into chaos.

64. "The JFK Assassination Re-enactment" by Chuck Marler, in Fetzer 1998, pp. 249-261. This remarkable essay is mandatory reading. No one should ever discuss the location of the final shot without mastering this essay.

65. Fetzer 2000, David Mantik, p. 345.

66. Ibid., pp. 285-295.

67. Milicent Cranor lists those who heard a flurry of final shots (Fetzer 1998, p. 296). If only one of these witnesses is correct, a conspiracy seems unavoidable. Some have suggested though that these witnesses heard the (two, or even three) separate sounds that can sometimes be associated with a single shot. If so, though, why was a flurry heard only with Oswald's (supposed) last shot and not with his (supposed) first two shots? Cranor adds (e-mail of September 1, 2014): "A number of witnesses said there was a flurry in the beginning, not at the end. Governor Connally was the most famous of these..."

68. The following is from Post Mortem (1975) by Harold Weisberg, p. 54. "The SS engaged Dallas surveyor Robert West to prepare a map of the assassination area. On it was then marked the location of the car when each of three shots struck (WHITEWASH II, 167, 243). During its reconstruction, the SS placed a 'replica' car where it says the President's was when each of the three shots struck, then photographed it in each position (WHITEWASH II, 248). These are part of Commission File 88... Specter, however, made no reference to these SS pictures showing the President's car where it was when each of three bullets struck. Inspector Kelley was just as delicate. He remained silent about the unwelcome evidence, Specter did not enter them into evidence."

After the single bullet theory took priority, the FBI published a booklet (File 298) to explain its prior conclusions (i.e., of three successful shots, which is clearly not the single bullet theory). The FBI conclusions could not have been more explicit; they listed three successful shots and specified their distances from the "sniper's nest" as 167 feet, 262 feet, and 307 feet. This information did not appear in the Warren Report. Any suggestion of more than two successful shots was culled from the Warren Report, so that the single bullet theory could survive (Post Mortem, p. 56).

69. Furthermore, the flowers on the north side (the side of the Grassy Knoll) were widely scattered, so it would be difficult to identify the "spot" based on those.

70. See Weisberg 1966, p. 243, for an official surveyor's map. Livingstone also shows the maps and Secret Service photographs (Killing Kennedy (1993), pp. 74-75). Speer shows the map at http://www.patspeer.com/chapter2b%3Athesecretservicesecrets.

71. For Specter's starring role in the WC cover-up, see Vincent Salandria's trenchant analysis at http://www.ctka.net/2012/salandria_Specter_meet.html. In view of current geopolitical events, Salandria's comments are still on target. Robert Huber incisively described the Salandria-Specter encounter in Philadelphia Magazine (March 2014, p. 80). He also cited the Fonzi-Specter audio interviews at phillymag.com/specter.

72. The following is excerpted verbatim from Pat Speer's website at http://www.patspeer.com/chapter2b%3Athesecretservicesecrets. "The final shot, which Moore describes in his 12-11 report as the second bullet which struck the President (the third bullet fired) is recorded as a shot of 294 feet. 294 feet is 34 feet further [DM: sic] than the distance from the sniper's nest to Kennedy at the time of the head shot as determined by Agent Howlett on 11-27 (and 29 feet further [DM: sic] than the distance from the sniper's nest to Kennedy determined by the Warren Commission). 294 feet, moreover, reflects the distance of the President from the sniper's nest circa frame 343 of the Zapruder film, almost 2 seconds after the obvious head shot. This is no small mistake." [DM: Z-343 is when the FBI said that Clint Hill first placed his hand on the limousine; 30 frames after Z-313. According to the FBI, his foot did not reach the bumper until Z-368; both feet reached at Z-381.]

73. The Moorman photograph does show Hudson still standing at about Z-313. A witness who corroborates Hudson's sequence of two clearly separated shots, with the final one well past Z-313, is Clint Hill: "As I approached the vehicle there was a third shot. It hit the President in the head, upper right rear of the right ear, caused a gaping hole in his head..." (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/07/25/jfk-whos-telling-the-truth-clint-hill-or-the-zapruder-film/). Below I cite McIntyre as a witness for Hill's scenario.

74. Mary Moorman heard a shot as she took her famous photograph, and then she heard two or three more shots after that (19H487). Jean Hill also recalled that after she saw JFK's hair "ripple up" she heard more shots (6H206 and 6H214). So did Charles Brehm; he recalled that JFK's hair flew up with the second shot, and after that he heard a third shot (22H837). Likewise, Special Agent George Hickey, Jr., testified that JFK's hair flew forward with the first shot ((18H762). In other words, he heard at least one more shot after a first shot went by (or near) JFK's head. Both Connallys heard the last shot after lying down in the seat, with her head next to his (4H133 and 4H147). Chief Curry heard a shot after Officer Chaney rode up to tell him what was happening (4H161). Sheriff Decker heard a first shot when a "spray of water" arose from JFK, and then he heard one more shot (9H458). James Foster saw JFK's head wounded with a "second" shot, then he heard a third shot (CD897). Royce Skelton heard a shot after seeing JFK react to a headshot (19H496). Mrs. Phillip Willis saw JFK's head wounded on the "second" shot, and then heard a third shot (CD1245). See Milicent Cranor's analysis at http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/31st_Issue/jiggle.html.

75. Thompson 1967, p. 187.

76. The Grassy Knoll is on the north side.

77. No More Silence (1998), Larry Sneed, p. 216. Here is yet another similar report, this one from Joe Cody: "...we jumped in our car and arrived at the scene where Kennedy was shot and killed in just three or four minutes. By that time it was probably ten minutes after the shooting. While we were there, I searched the plaza and found a bone lying in the gutter that apparently came out of the back of the President's head" (ibid., p. 467).

And here is another: "A postal inspector [Holmes] picked up a piece of skull from the Elm St. pavement. He said it was as '...big as the end of my finger...' Furthermore, it was one of many: '...there was just pieces of skull and bone and corruption [sic] all over the place...' He later discarded it" (Murder from Within (1974), Fred Newcomb and Perry Adams, p. 213). Also see Appendix D here, especially the Addendum paragraph.

78. See Walt Brown's similar comments in Appendix D here.

79. Tim Nicholson has analyzed the two streaks (in Z-313) in great detail, using numerous variables. Nicholson e-mail of August 1, 2013: "The conclusion that I draw is that either fragment could have traveled the distance of 117 feet (35.66 m). It would take an exit velocity of 49.5 m/s for fragment #1 to travel that distance and 28.2 m/s for fragment #2 given the estimated drag of 30% of maximum drag. However it is more likely that fragment #2 is the Harper fragment with an exit angle of 35.4 degrees." Fragment #2 is on the right, i.e., the more horizontal one. His analysis assumes, of course, that its path was parallel to Elm St. (Any velocity component perpendicular to Elm St cannot be estimated.)

80. Kennedy and Lincoln (1980), John Lattimer, p. 251. Pat Speer quotes Lattimer: "...after the bullet had left and blew the calvarium into several fragments, many of which went upward and forward for distances as great as 20 to 30 feet, as in frame 313 of the Zapruder movie." Speer cites his source: "...a February 1976 article in Surgery, Gynecolgy [DM: sic], and Obstetrics, and then again in his 1980 book Kennedy and Lincoln..." (www.patspeer.com/chapter16%3Anewviewsonthe samescene).

I watched the online movie clips of "Inside the Target Car" (The Discovery Channel) but heard no description of how far their fragments had traveled. However, it seems that their range was short inasmuch as they describe one fragment on the trunk and another on the front of the windshield (

).

81. Likewise, many Hollywood professionals have stated that the halo at Z-313 looks more like artwork. (I have seen some of these video interviews.) As further corroboration for this, Dino Brugioni has emphasized how different the extant Z-313 (and nearby frames, too) looks as compared to the original Z-film (which he saw). This is discussed in my review of Fiester's book at http://www.ctka.net/2013/eot_review.html. Cf. Mary's Mosaic (2012), Peter Janney, pp. 287-292.

82. But see Horne, Volume III, pp. 710-711, for the widely varying witness accounts about the origin of this fragment.

83. Postal inspector Harry Holmes: "...there was just a cone of blood and corruption [sic] that went right in the back of his head and neck. I thought it was red paper on a firecracker. It looked like a firecracker lit up which looks like little bits of red paper as it goes up. But in reality it was his skull and brains and everything else that went perhaps as much as six or eight feet [DM: my emphasis added]. Just like that!" (Sneed 1998, pp. 351-371).

Jackie Kennedy and William Manchester also saw slow-moving fragments (Fetzer 1998, pp. 294, 297). Manchester should know; after all, he had watched the Z-film 75 times (The Manchester Affair (1967), John Corry, p. 45).

84. See the following website for a colorful image of an exploding lemon. That image demonstrates obvious forward and back spatter (page 1 on October 13, 2014): https://www.google.com/search?q=exploding+bullets&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=o-YoUrqzOYWSiAKtjYDoAQ&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=1048#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=w_ukJR22ViotQM%3A%3BUEdfpNYOU3yLkM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fpeople.rit.edu%252Fandpph%252Fphotofile-c%252Fhs-lemon_5028.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fpeople.rit.edu%252Fandpph%252Fexhibit-3.html%3B611%3B396.

85. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=60448&relPageId=60 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pThaUVLENMY.

86. Gary Mack cites the official weather report, taken only a short distance from Dealey Plaza: the wind blew at 15 mph, with gusts up to 20 mph ("Inside the Target Car," The Discovery Channel).

87. See Appendix K and also my review of Sherry Fiester's book at http://www.ctka.net/2013/eot_review.html.

88. See this interview report by Vince Palamara at http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Marsh/Ballistics/fragment_vince.html: "Sam [VP: Secret Service Agent Kinney] told me twice that he saw the back of JFK's head come off immediately when the fatal shot struck him." Palamara reminds us that Kinney was watching JFK's head and the rear bumper of the limousine as part of his job. Paradoxically, Palamara does not believe that HF is occipital bone. Does he not believe Kinney? But if not, why does Palamara quote him? Palamara even notes that Kinney said that "...he found the piece of the back [DM: my emphasis added] of JFK's head lying in the rear seat..." (http:mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara/skullfragments.html).

On November 22, 2013, at the JFK Lancer Conference in Dallas, Texas, I personally heard James Jenkins (the autopsy technician) provide astonishing evidence for such a tangential shot. (On the contrary; without any serious discussion, and despite its strong historical tradition; Fiester excludes, from the outset, such a tangential shot as an option; see her Figure 14.) At this conference, Jenkins repeatedly described a bullet entry (a 5 mm hole) very near the top of the right ear (cf. Robert Groden 2013, p. 155). The periphery of this hole was gray, which suggested to him that a bullet had entered there. Jenkins even recalled that Pierre Finck had speculated about a possible entry there, but the pathologists never closely examined this hole, nor did it enter their official report. Jenkins also saw a large opening ("somewhat larger than a silver dollar [DM: 3.81 cm]") in the posterior skull, which he attributed to the exit of this same bullet. As further corroboration for such a tangential shot, even the closest witnesses (Abraham Zapruder and both Newmans) recalled trauma near the right ear. Roy Kellerman may also have fixated on this same site near the right ear; see his testimony to the WC (2H81); he describes the wound aperture as the size of his little finger. Even the neurosurgeon, Kemp Clark, stated that a bullet had struck the right side of JFK's head and that this wound was "tangential" (6H21).

For more of Jenkins's vivid recollections of the JFK autopsy at JFK Lancer, including a cogent analysis by Douglas Horne, see http://insidethearrb.livejournal.com/10811.html. Jenkins has now lifted the last vestiges of the veil that concealed this criminal escapade. After 50 years, not only the broad outlines, but even the details of the medical whitewash, can finally be seen with unexpected clarity.

89. HSCA interview (1/31/1978): RIF#180-10082-10082-10454.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Pat Speer]

So, here it is again: an attempt to cut off any discussion of my recent appearance on Black Op radio by citing an article by Dr. Mantik in which he disagreed with conclusions of mine that were never even mentioned in my recent appearance on Black Op radio. That's called harassment.

Last I checked, Steven, you were free to create a thread on the Harper fragment any time you liked. Why have you chosen to derail a discussion of other aspects of the medical evidence by cutting and pasting from an article written by someone who refuses to discuss the medical evidence...published on a website on which no discussion of the medical evidence is allowed? Why not link to the DVD from the Pittsburgh conference where Mantik publicly admitted he'd misinterpreted the x-ray of the Harper fragment, and that I was right?