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Surveyor West heard FOUR shots


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4          Q            You may return to the witness chair.  Now,

5                      Mr. West, were you present in Dealey

6                      Plaza on November 22, 1963, sir?

7          A            Yes, sir.

8          Q            Where were you located?  At approximately what

9                      time were you in Dealey Plaza?

10        A            I don’t remember the exact time of the day.

11                    It was approximately 15 minutes before

12                    the motorcade came down.

13        Q            Mr. West, I’m going to give you a small flag

14                    which has your name on it, and which also

15                    has a pin in it, and I would ask you to

16                    please go to what you previously identi-

17                    fied as being your certified plat and

18                    stick this in the location where you were

19                    approximately 30 minutes before the

20                    motorcade passed on November 22, 1963.

21        A            (The witness complies.)

22        Q            Now, Mr. West, would you please explain to the

23                    Gentlemen of the Jury, and the Court,

24                    verbally what location this is?

25        A            That would be the southeast corner of the

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1                      intersection of Main and Houston Streets.

2          Q            In relation to the aerial photograph, and in

3                      relation to where your office was at that

4                      time, or in relation to where you were,

5                      where was your office at that time?

6          A            It was in the old courthouse approximately

7                      40 or 50 feet south of where I was

8                      standing.

9          Q            Did you see the presidential motorcade on that

10                    day, sir?

11        A            Yes, sir.

12        Q            Before I proceed I’m going to also give you a

13                    small emblem which represents a man, and

14                    ask you to proceed to the markup and paste

15                    yourself on the markup in accordance with

16                    where you were on that date.

17        A            (The witness complies.)

18        Q            Mr. West, what was the location of the

19                    presidential limousine at the time your

20                    first saw it on November 22, sir?

21        A            It was going west on Main Street at approxi-

22                    mately Record Street, which is the first

23                    street east of Houston.

24        Q            Did you observe the presidential limousine

25                    as it approached Houston Street?

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1          A            Yes, sir.

2          Q            In which direction did the presidential

3                      limousine proceed upon reaching Houston

4                      Street?

5          A            It turned to the right, or to the north.

6          Q            At what time did you lose sight of the

7                      presidential limousine, if in fact you

8                      ever lost sight of it?

9          A            Shortly after it turned to the left, or back

10                    west on Elm Street.

11        Q            When did you again regain visual observation

12                    of the presidential limousine?

13        A            Before it went under the underpass.

14        Q            Would you please step up and indicate the

15                    location of the underpass of which you are

16                    speaking on the aerial photograph and then

17                    also on the plat which you have drawn?

18        A            (The witness complies.)

19        Q            Now would you indicate this on the markup,

20                    sir?

21        A            (The witness complies.)

22        Q            Now, Mr. West, did you see or hear anything

23                    unusual as the presidential motorcade

24                    proceeded through Dealey Plaza on

25                    November 22?

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1          A            Some time after it turned on Elm Street I

2                      heard what sounded to me at that time as

3                      what I thought was backfiring, a motor-

4                      cycle.

5          Q            How many of these backfires did you hear?

6          A            Four.

7          Q            Did you at any time during this period determine

8                      them to be anything other than backfires?

9          MR. DYMOND:

10                    Object, unless of his own knowledge he did.

11        MR. SCIAMBRA:

12                    That is what I asked him.

13        THE COURT:

14                    From your own knowledge did you make any

15                    determination?

16        THE WITNESS:

17                    I made no examination, no, sir.

18        BY MR. SCIAMBRA:

19        Q            Did you recognize any of the noise which you

20                    have described as anything other than a

21                    backfire?

22        MR. WILLIAM WEGMANN:

23                    Objection, he already testified it was

24                    backfire.  Now he is trying to

25                    change his witness testimony.

Page 55

1          MR. SCIAMBRA:

2                      I am asking him if he ever determined it

3                      to be anything else.

4          THE COURT:

5                      Put the question differently, would you

6                      please?

7          BY MR. SCIAMBRA:

8          Q            Mr. West, did you hear any unusual noise?

9          A            Yes, sir.

10        Q            On how many occasions did you hear this noise?

11        A            Four.

12        Q            Did it sound the same on each occasion?

13        A            Yes, sir.

14        Q            What did you think this noise was on the first

15                    occasion?

16        MR. WILLIAM WEGMANN:

17                    Objection, he has already said it sounded

18                    the same on each occasion.

19        THE COURT:

20                    I will permit the question.  You may ask

21                    the same on each occasion.

22        BY MR. SCIAMBRA:

23        Q            What did it sound like on the first occasion?

24        A            A motorcycle backfired.

25        Q            What did it sound like on the second occasion?

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1          A            A rifle fired.

2          Q            It sounded to you like rifle fire --

3          THE COURT:

4                      You needn’t repeat his testimony.

5          BY MR. SCIAMBRA:

6          Q            What did it sound like to you on the third

7                      occasion?

8          A            It appeared to me it was rifle fire after the

9                      second.  The first and the second my

10                    response was it was motorcycle backfire.

11        Q            What was your response to the third sound that

12                    you heard?

13        A            Rifle fire.

14        Q            Were these loud sounds?

15        A            Yes, sir.

16        Q            Were you able to determine at any time during

17                    the course of these the location or the

18                    area from which these sounds were

19                    emanating?

20        MR. DYMOND:

21                    Objection on the ground it calls for an

22                    opinion.

23        MR. SCIAMBRA:

24                    This is within his knowledge.

25        THE COURT:

Page 57

1                      You don’t have to argue.  If you know of

2                      your own personal knowledge you can

3                      answer the question.

4          THE WITNESS:

5                      The sound came from the northwest quadrant

6                      of Dealey Plaza.

7          BY MR. SCIAMBRA:

8          Q            Will you please step down from the witness

9                      chair and proceed to your plat and indicate

10                    to the Gentlemen of the Jury what the

11                    northwest quadrant of Dealey Plaza is.

12        A            This entire area north and west of Elm Street.

13        Q            Were you able, or can you at this time tell the

14                    Gentlemen of the Jury what interval of

15                    time there appeared to be between the first

16                    and the second reports which you heard?

17        A            No, sir.

18        Q            Can you tell us the interval between the second

19                    and the third?

20        A            No, sir.

21        Q            The third and fourth?

22        A            No, sir.

23        Q            Mr. West, you will notice on what has been

24                    previously marked as S-34, which is the

25                    aerial photograph, a line of dots.  I will

Page 58

1                      ask you whether or not this is the route

2                      taken --

3          MR. WILLIAM WEGMANN:

4                      Objection on the grounds it is leading.

5          THE COURT:

6                      Rephrase your question, please.

7          BY MR. SCIAMBRA:

8          Q            Would you indicate to the Gentlemen of the Jury

9                      by stepping to this aerial photograph the

10                    route taken by the presidential limousine?

11        A            The limousine was going west on Elm, north

12                    on Houston and back west -- pardon me,

13                    west on main, north on Houston and back

14                    west on Elm.

15        Q            Mr. West, is it possible for you to tell the

16                    Gentlemen of the Jury the approximate span

17                    of time that elapsed between the first

18                    report which you heard and the last report

19                    which you heard?

20        A            No, sir.

21        Q            Mr. West, when was the last time you observed

22                    the presidential limousine?

23        A            Somewhere shortly before it went under the

24                    triple underpass.

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