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Mel Ayton's HNN article and identity of polka dot lady


Peter Fokes
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New article by Mel Ayton published on History News Network.

http://hnn.us/articles/38496.html

Ayton correctly gives me credit for discovering the image of a woman in a green polka dot dress in the pantry area.

However Ayton ignored another set of pictures I sent him that show another lady in a black dress with white spots. She is standing next to a man who looks identical to Sirhan Sirhan, and who does not look like the man identified by Mel as resembling Sirhan Sirhan.

I published two of these photos on my website last year and posted the urls to this alt.assassination.jfk, a newsgroup I moderate with John McAdams.

http://www.toronto.hm/rfk2.html

The upper photo shows this unidentified woman with a pug-like nose and wearing a black dress with white spots. The lower photo shows the man who bears an uncanny resemblance to Sirhan Sirhan just above the left shoulder of a man in a striped red suit jacket.

In the lower photo, just the top of the head and hair of the unidentified woman are shown. I have additional images of this man and woman taken a few seconds before and after these photos which do reveal the unidentified woman with the pug nose and black hair is standing next to the Sirhan Sirhan look-alike.

I'm not sure why Mel Ayton decided to ignore these other photos, but he does note that a witness did see Sirhan Sirhan standing next to a woman with a pug nose.

<quote on>

Pantry eyewitness Vincent DiPierro said he saw, “…one girl [during the night] ... that was in there [the pantry] that night with a 'pug-nose'….. and dark hair.” DiPierro said she had been standing in the area near Kennedy when the shooting occurred and that she had also been standing near the tray stacker where Sirhan crouched before he began shooting. “There was so much confusion that night,” DiPierro said.

At Sirhan's trial DiPierro testified as to what he observed. Defense lawyer Grant Cooper asked him what caused him to notice Sirhan. DiPierro replied, “There was a girl standing in the area [of the pantry]” and this caused him to notice Sirhan. He said the girl was pretty and when shown a photograph of Kennedy campaign worker Valerie Schulte confirmed this was the girl in question. It became obvious that in the chaos that followed the shooting - with the added distractions of camera flashes and television lighting that filled the pantry - that DiPierro had been led to mistake the color of Schulte's hair (blonde) and clothes; Schulte's dress was actually green with yellow polka dots. The same mischaracterization of the dress was probably made by Darnell Johnson who claimed to see the woman in the pantry with a man and also in the Embassy Room both before and after RFK was shot. Johnson's description of the girl is not in contradiction to the positioning of Valerie Schulte who had been standing in the pantry with a man when the shots were fired.

<quote off>

Did DiPierro mistakenly confirm that Valerie Schulte was the woman he saw? In his original description, he described the woman as having a "pug nose" and "black hair". The unidentified woman in the photo I published on my website last year matches DiPierro's original description.

Ayton claims it is "obvious" that DiPierro was confused by the "chaos" and "lights" and misidentified the color of her hair and her dress. He also claims that another witness named Darnell Johnson "probably" made the same misidentification as DiPierro. Johnson saw the woman in the pantry and the Embassy Room. The unidentified woman standing next to Sirhan Sirhan as shown in images I captured from film footage does indeed have black hair and a pug nose.

Again, I have no idea why Mel Ayton ignored these images. Instead he makes the claim that DiPierro and Johnson were simply confused and misidentified Valerie Schulte. It is also clear that the woman with the pug nose and dark hair is not the unidentified "pretty girl" that Ayton discusses in his article.

Peter Fokes

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New article by Mel Ayton published on History News Network.

http://hnn.us/articles/38496.html

Ayton correctly gives me credit for discovering the image of a woman in a green polka dot dress in the pantry area.

However Ayton ignored another set of pictures I sent him that show another lady in a black dress with white spots. She is standing next to a man who looks identical to Sirhan Sirhan, and who does not look like the man identified by Mel as resembling Sirhan Sirhan.

I published two of these photos on my website last year and posted the urls to this alt.assassination.jfk, a newsgroup I moderate with John McAdams.

http://www.toronto.hm/rfk2.html

The upper photo shows this unidentified woman with a pug-like nose and wearing a black dress with white spots. The lower photo shows the man who bears an uncanny resemblance to Sirhan Sirhan just above the left shoulder of a man in a striped red suit jacket.

In the lower photo, just the top of the head and hair of the unidentified woman are shown. I have additional images of this man and woman taken a few seconds before and after these photos which do reveal the unidentified woman with the pug nose and black hair is standing next to the Sirhan Sirhan look-alike.

I'm not sure why Mel Ayton decided to ignore these other photos, but he does note that a witness did see Sirhan Sirhan standing next to a woman with a pug nose.

<quote on>

Pantry eyewitness Vincent DiPierro said he saw, “…one girl [during the night] ... that was in there [the pantry] that night with a 'pug-nose'….. and dark hair.” DiPierro said she had been standing in the area near Kennedy when the shooting occurred and that she had also been standing near the tray stacker where Sirhan crouched before he began shooting. “There was so much confusion that night,” DiPierro said.

At Sirhan's trial DiPierro testified as to what he observed. Defense lawyer Grant Cooper asked him what caused him to notice Sirhan. DiPierro replied, “There was a girl standing in the area [of the pantry]” and this caused him to notice Sirhan. He said the girl was pretty and when shown a photograph of Kennedy campaign worker Valerie Schulte confirmed this was the girl in question. It became obvious that in the chaos that followed the shooting - with the added distractions of camera flashes and television lighting that filled the pantry - that DiPierro had been led to mistake the color of Schulte's hair (blonde) and clothes; Schulte's dress was actually green with yellow polka dots. The same mischaracterization of the dress was probably made by Darnell Johnson who claimed to see the woman in the pantry with a man and also in the Embassy Room both before and after RFK was shot. Johnson's description of the girl is not in contradiction to the positioning of Valerie Schulte who had been standing in the pantry with a man when the shots were fired.

<quote off>

Did DiPierro mistakenly confirm that Valerie Schulte was the woman he saw? In his original description, he described the woman as having a "pug nose" and "black hair". The unidentified woman in the photo I published on my website last year matches DiPierro's original description.

Ayton claims it is "obvious" that DiPierro was confused by the "chaos" and "lights" and misidentified the color of her hair and her dress. He also claims that another witness named Darnell Johnson "probably" made the same misidentification as DiPierro. Johnson saw the woman in the pantry and the Embassy Room. The unidentified woman standing next to Sirhan Sirhan as shown in images I captured from film footage does indeed have black hair and a pug nose.

Again, I have no idea why Mel Ayton ignored these images. Instead he makes the claim that DiPierro and Johnson were simply confused and misidentified Valerie Schulte. It is also clear that the woman with the pug nose and dark hair is not the unidentified "pretty girl" that Ayton discusses in his article.

Peter Fokes

In my humble opinion, I believe that is Sirhan Sirhan in the bottom photo. Could you post some more of your pictures?

Kathy

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New article by Mel Ayton published on History News Network.

http://hnn.us/articles/38496.html

Ayton correctly gives me credit for discovering the image of a woman in a green polka dot dress in the pantry area.

However Ayton ignored another set of pictures I sent him that show another lady in a black dress with white spots. She is standing next to a man who looks identical to Sirhan Sirhan, and who does not look like the man identified by Mel as resembling Sirhan Sirhan.

I published two of these photos on my website last year and posted the urls to this alt.assassination.jfk, a newsgroup I moderate with John McAdams.

http://www.toronto.hm/rfk2.html

The upper photo shows this unidentified woman with a pug-like nose and wearing a black dress with white spots. The lower photo shows the man who bears an uncanny resemblance to Sirhan Sirhan just above the left shoulder of a man in a striped red suit jacket.

In the lower photo, just the top of the head and hair of the unidentified woman are shown. I have additional images of this man and woman taken a few seconds before and after these photos which do reveal the unidentified woman with the pug nose and black hair is standing next to the Sirhan Sirhan look-alike.

I'm not sure why Mel Ayton decided to ignore these other photos, but he does note that a witness did see Sirhan Sirhan standing next to a woman with a pug nose.

<quote on>

Pantry eyewitness Vincent DiPierro said he saw, “…one girl [during the night] ... that was in there [the pantry] that night with a 'pug-nose'….. and dark hair.” DiPierro said she had been standing in the area near Kennedy when the shooting occurred and that she had also been standing near the tray stacker where Sirhan crouched before he began shooting. “There was so much confusion that night,” DiPierro said.

At Sirhan's trial DiPierro testified as to what he observed. Defense lawyer Grant Cooper asked him what caused him to notice Sirhan. DiPierro replied, “There was a girl standing in the area [of the pantry]” and this caused him to notice Sirhan. He said the girl was pretty and when shown a photograph of Kennedy campaign worker Valerie Schulte confirmed this was the girl in question. It became obvious that in the chaos that followed the shooting - with the added distractions of camera flashes and television lighting that filled the pantry - that DiPierro had been led to mistake the color of Schulte's hair (blonde) and clothes; Schulte's dress was actually green with yellow polka dots. The same mischaracterization of the dress was probably made by Darnell Johnson who claimed to see the woman in the pantry with a man and also in the Embassy Room both before and after RFK was shot. Johnson's description of the girl is not in contradiction to the positioning of Valerie Schulte who had been standing in the pantry with a man when the shots were fired.

<quote off>

Did DiPierro mistakenly confirm that Valerie Schulte was the woman he saw? In his original description, he described the woman as having a "pug nose" and "black hair". The unidentified woman in the photo I published on my website last year matches DiPierro's original description.

Ayton claims it is "obvious" that DiPierro was confused by the "chaos" and "lights" and misidentified the color of her hair and her dress. He also claims that another witness named Darnell Johnson "probably" made the same misidentification as DiPierro. Johnson saw the woman in the pantry and the Embassy Room. The unidentified woman standing next to Sirhan Sirhan as shown in images I captured from film footage does indeed have black hair and a pug nose.

Again, I have no idea why Mel Ayton ignored these images. Instead he makes the claim that DiPierro and Johnson were simply confused and misidentified Valerie Schulte. It is also clear that the woman with the pug nose and dark hair is not the unidentified "pretty girl" that Ayton discusses in his article.

Peter Fokes

Do you actually want "credit" from this guy? His piece struck me as propaganda. Why would you want to be associated with it?

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Guest Stephen Turner

As Swinbourne said of Ralph Waldo Emerson. "Anything not to his intellectual taste he leaves on the plate."

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New article by Mel Ayton published on History News Network.

http://hnn.us/articles/38496.html

Ayton correctly gives me credit for discovering the image of a woman in a green polka dot dress in the pantry area.

However Ayton ignored another set of pictures I sent him that show another lady in a black dress with white spots. She is standing next to a man who looks identical to Sirhan Sirhan, and who does not look like the man identified by Mel as resembling Sirhan Sirhan.

I published two of these photos on my website last year and posted the urls to this alt.assassination.jfk, a newsgroup I moderate with John McAdams.

http://www.toronto.hm/rfk2.html

The upper photo shows this unidentified woman with a pug-like nose and wearing a black dress with white spots. The lower photo shows the man who bears an uncanny resemblance to Sirhan Sirhan just above the left shoulder of a man in a striped red suit jacket.

In the lower photo, just the top of the head and hair of the unidentified woman are shown. I have additional images of this man and woman taken a few seconds before and after these photos which do reveal the unidentified woman with the pug nose and black hair is standing next to the Sirhan Sirhan look-alike.

I'm not sure why Mel Ayton decided to ignore these other photos, but he does note that a witness did see Sirhan Sirhan standing next to a woman with a pug nose.

<quote on>

Pantry eyewitness Vincent DiPierro said he saw, “…one girl [during the night] ... that was in there [the pantry] that night with a 'pug-nose'….. and dark hair.” DiPierro said she had been standing in the area near Kennedy when the shooting occurred and that she had also been standing near the tray stacker where Sirhan crouched before he began shooting. “There was so much confusion that night,” DiPierro said.

At Sirhan's trial DiPierro testified as to what he observed. Defense lawyer Grant Cooper asked him what caused him to notice Sirhan. DiPierro replied, “There was a girl standing in the area [of the pantry]” and this caused him to notice Sirhan. He said the girl was pretty and when shown a photograph of Kennedy campaign worker Valerie Schulte confirmed this was the girl in question. It became obvious that in the chaos that followed the shooting - with the added distractions of camera flashes and television lighting that filled the pantry - that DiPierro had been led to mistake the color of Schulte's hair (blonde) and clothes; Schulte's dress was actually green with yellow polka dots. The same mischaracterization of the dress was probably made by Darnell Johnson who claimed to see the woman in the pantry with a man and also in the Embassy Room both before and after RFK was shot. Johnson's description of the girl is not in contradiction to the positioning of Valerie Schulte who had been standing in the pantry with a man when the shots were fired.

<quote off>

Did DiPierro mistakenly confirm that Valerie Schulte was the woman he saw? In his original description, he described the woman as having a "pug nose" and "black hair". The unidentified woman in the photo I published on my website last year matches DiPierro's original description.

Ayton claims it is "obvious" that DiPierro was confused by the "chaos" and "lights" and misidentified the color of her hair and her dress. He also claims that another witness named Darnell Johnson "probably" made the same misidentification as DiPierro. Johnson saw the woman in the pantry and the Embassy Room. The unidentified woman standing next to Sirhan Sirhan as shown in images I captured from film footage does indeed have black hair and a pug nose.

Again, I have no idea why Mel Ayton ignored these images. Instead he makes the claim that DiPierro and Johnson were simply confused and misidentified Valerie Schulte. It is also clear that the woman with the pug nose and dark hair is not the unidentified "pretty girl" that Ayton discusses in his article.

Peter Fokes

Do you actually want "credit" from this guy? His piece struck me as propaganda. Why would you want to be associated with it?

Good day, Myra.

I had no idea my name was going to appear in this article.

Mel posted a number of times on alt.assassination.jfk, and then disappeared.

Do we "associate" anyone mentioned in an author's article as being a supporter of that author's research?

Of course not.

I'm more interested in whether folks think the fellow in the other image looks like Sirhan Sirhan.

Chow for now

PF

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New article by Mel Ayton published on History News Network.

http://hnn.us/articles/38496.html

Ayton correctly gives me credit for discovering the image of a woman in a green polka dot dress in the pantry area.

However Ayton ignored another set of pictures I sent him that show another lady in a black dress with white spots. She is standing next to a man who looks identical to Sirhan Sirhan, and who does not look like the man identified by Mel as resembling Sirhan Sirhan.

I published two of these photos on my website last year and posted the urls to this alt.assassination.jfk, a newsgroup I moderate with John McAdams.

http://www.toronto.hm/rfk2.html

The upper photo shows this unidentified woman with a pug-like nose and wearing a black dress with white spots. The lower photo shows the man who bears an uncanny resemblance to Sirhan Sirhan just above the left shoulder of a man in a striped red suit jacket.

In the lower photo, just the top of the head and hair of the unidentified woman are shown. I have additional images of this man and woman taken a few seconds before and after these photos which do reveal the unidentified woman with the pug nose and black hair is standing next to the Sirhan Sirhan look-alike.

I'm not sure why Mel Ayton decided to ignore these other photos, but he does note that a witness did see Sirhan Sirhan standing next to a woman with a pug nose.

<quote on>

Pantry eyewitness Vincent DiPierro said he saw, “…one girl [during the night] ... that was in there [the pantry] that night with a 'pug-nose'….. and dark hair.” DiPierro said she had been standing in the area near Kennedy when the shooting occurred and that she had also been standing near the tray stacker where Sirhan crouched before he began shooting. “There was so much confusion that night,” DiPierro said.

At Sirhan's trial DiPierro testified as to what he observed. Defense lawyer Grant Cooper asked him what caused him to notice Sirhan. DiPierro replied, “There was a girl standing in the area [of the pantry]” and this caused him to notice Sirhan. He said the girl was pretty and when shown a photograph of Kennedy campaign worker Valerie Schulte confirmed this was the girl in question. It became obvious that in the chaos that followed the shooting - with the added distractions of camera flashes and television lighting that filled the pantry - that DiPierro had been led to mistake the color of Schulte's hair (blonde) and clothes; Schulte's dress was actually green with yellow polka dots. The same mischaracterization of the dress was probably made by Darnell Johnson who claimed to see the woman in the pantry with a man and also in the Embassy Room both before and after RFK was shot. Johnson's description of the girl is not in contradiction to the positioning of Valerie Schulte who had been standing in the pantry with a man when the shots were fired.

<quote off>

Did DiPierro mistakenly confirm that Valerie Schulte was the woman he saw? In his original description, he described the woman as having a "pug nose" and "black hair". The unidentified woman in the photo I published on my website last year matches DiPierro's original description.

Ayton claims it is "obvious" that DiPierro was confused by the "chaos" and "lights" and misidentified the color of her hair and her dress. He also claims that another witness named Darnell Johnson "probably" made the same misidentification as DiPierro. Johnson saw the woman in the pantry and the Embassy Room. The unidentified woman standing next to Sirhan Sirhan as shown in images I captured from film footage does indeed have black hair and a pug nose.

Again, I have no idea why Mel Ayton ignored these images. Instead he makes the claim that DiPierro and Johnson were simply confused and misidentified Valerie Schulte. It is also clear that the woman with the pug nose and dark hair is not the unidentified "pretty girl" that Ayton discusses in his article.

Peter Fokes

In my humble opinion, I believe that is Sirhan Sirhan in the bottom photo. Could you post some more of your pictures?

Kathy

Allo Kathy,

Isn't it an uncanny resemblance?

Of course simply finding another image of Sirhan Sirhan at the Ambassador Hotel that night is not earthshaking .... we KNOW he was there.

I am by no means an expert in capturing images from video, but I did spend some time rewinding and replaying a small segment of video from the California Archives. Have you ever heard of Pat Paulsen, the comedian who ran for President? The video shows Pat Paulsen making his way through the crowds at the Ambassador Hotel. Not sure of Pat's ultimate destination but he is shown speaking to Milton Berle at one point (this film footage has no sound btw).

If enough people agree with me (and you, apparently) that this fellow does indeed resemble Sirhan Sirhan, then I'll try to upload a few more images to my website and provide the links in this thread.

PF

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Good day, Myra.

I had no idea my name was going to appear in this article.

Mel posted a number of times on alt.assassination.jfk, and then disappeared.

Do we "associate" anyone mentioned in an author's article as being a supporter of that author's research?

Of course not.

I'm more interested in whether folks think the fellow in the other image looks like Sirhan Sirhan.

Chow for now

PF

Oh sorry Peter. I was focusing too much on the "credit" comment and totally missed your point.

Ayton clearly had an agenda and did not let reality intrude. It was a shameless piece of... writing.

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Good day, Myra.

I had no idea my name was going to appear in this article.

Mel posted a number of times on alt.assassination.jfk, and then disappeared.

Do we "associate" anyone mentioned in an author's article as being a supporter of that author's research?

Of course not.

I'm more interested in whether folks think the fellow in the other image looks like Sirhan Sirhan.

Chow for now

PF

Oh sorry Peter. I was focusing too much on the "credit" comment and totally missed your point.

Ayton clearly had an agenda and did not let reality intrude. It was a shameless piece of... writing.

Myra,

Did you take a look at the image of the man?

Looks like Sirhan Sirhan to me.

Pitfalls are very deep when claiming so-and-so is so-and-so in pictures.

Years ago I thought I spotted Helms in film footage at the Ambassador Hotel.

That's why Shane's theory piqued my interest recently. Just received David Talbot's book,

Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years .... I understand he makes some comments

about Shane's theory.

PF

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Good day, Myra.

I had no idea my name was going to appear in this article.

Mel posted a number of times on alt.assassination.jfk, and then disappeared.

Do we "associate" anyone mentioned in an author's article as being a supporter of that author's research?

Of course not.

I'm more interested in whether folks think the fellow in the other image looks like Sirhan Sirhan.

Chow for now

PF

Oh sorry Peter. I was focusing too much on the "credit" comment and totally missed your point.

Ayton clearly had an agenda and did not let reality intrude. It was a shameless piece of... writing.

Myra,

Did you take a look at the image of the man?

Looks like Sirhan Sirhan to me.

Pitfalls are very deep when claiming so-and-so is so-and-so in pictures.

Years ago I thought I spotted Helms in film footage at the Ambassador Hotel.

That's why Shane's theory piqued my interest recently. Just received David Talbot's book,

Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years .... I understand he makes some comments

about Shane's theory.

PF

I did look at the image Peter.

And it does look like Sirhan.

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