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Lucius Conien


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#16 Shanet Clark

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 03:10 PM

Jim hamilton,
That character is a ringer for Watergate Burglar and CIA agent
James McCord....great photo of the crowd control....
notice "McCord" making eye contact with the man in the grey suit (left)

This photo shows the SWEEPS that James Richards and I discussed relative
to the SPARTACUS 'Aftermath at Dealey Plaza' photos.

Men in suits, a few paces apart systematically combing the grounds,
rounding up witnesses (note the five African Americans talking with the
man in a suit (upper right)

The same thing was happening across Elm. These gentlemen, including
the ringer for McCord, appeared out of no where, acted in a co-ordinated
manner, presented false (or uncorroborrated) "flash" Identification to witnesses,
then disappeared into thin air. Some may have come from the Motorcade
but most just seem to be there, taking charge of the evidentiary moment...

#17 Jim Hamilton

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 03:19 PM

hi Shanet,many thanks for the info.I only came across the witnesses photo recently but that one guy stood out & seemed so familar to me.
regards jim.

#18 James Richards

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 09:29 PM

hi Shanet,many thanks for the info.I only came across the witnesses photo recently but that one guy stood out & seemed so familar to me.
regards jim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hi Jim,

Here is the McCord comparison I did.

That photo you posted of the crowd gathering on the knoll is a very interesting one. Amongst many different aspects, you will find present Alfredo Duran, Billie Sol Estes and a known associate of Bernardo De Torres look-a-likes.

If you look over toward the right of frame behind the little wall, there is a guy (2 guys actually), one who in some circles is considered to be Lee Oswald leaving the TSBD. I believe this was the Oswald impersonator.

James

#19 Jim Hamilton

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 10:41 PM

hi James,are these the two persons you mentioned,apologies for the quality.
regards jim.

#20 James Richards

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 11:04 PM

hi James,are these the two persons you mentioned,apologies for the quality.
regards jim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yep, that's them, Jim.

This was about 9 minutes after the shooting. The Oswald look-a-like then made his way down the knoll and loudly whistled. He climbed aboard a 1959 Rambler wagon driven by a man with a dark complexion and departed the scene. This was witnessed by Roger Craig and photographed by Jim Murray.

I have done a comparison below. The other image is a crop from the Murray photograph showing this guy near the Stemmons Freeway sign (center frame).

This time it is my turn to apologize for the poor quality. :(

James

#21 Jim Hamilton

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 12:16 AM

thanks for the info James,the only copy i have is poor,i'll see if i can do something with it.
Ive heard about the Rambler,does this show up in any other footage taken that day,anybody witnessing its location during the Assassination.
kind regards jim.

#22 James Richards

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 01:25 AM

thanks for the info James,the only copy i have is poor,i'll see if i can do something with it.
Ive heard about the Rambler,does this show up in any other footage taken that day,anybody witnessing its location during the Assassination.
kind regards jim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hi Jim,

The Rambler does appear in this image below. I have circled the appropriate vehicle. Also, if you haven't already done so, may I suggest perusing the work of Richard Bartholomew who has done quite some research on the subject.

http://spot.acorn.ne...e/rambler1.html

James

#23 Tim Gratz

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 06:52 AM

weberman quotes Hemming that the station wagon belonged to Howard Davis. I am going to try to determine if the records of the Florida Motor Vehicle Department go that far back to see what cars were registered to Mr. Davis.

The station wagon reports could indeed be significant.

#24 Tim Gratz

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 07:05 AM

Here is some interesting information on Conein from Fonzi's "The Last Investigation" on the Cuban-exile web-site:


"It was the special team concept that the CIA employed within its own bureaucratic structure -- selected individuals stitched together into a tight, top-secret network outside their normal chain-of-command -- to plan the Castro assassination attempts.

"Yet the first utilization of the concept came in 1954, according to St. George, when a deep-cover CIA team went off to Hanoi under Lt. Colonel Lucien Conein, described as "one of Mitch WerBell's closest lifelong friends." The Conein mission, code-named "Blackhawk," was to harass and decimate the new Communist rulers of North Vietnam. Its orders included the "elimination of Vietminh cadres where conditions permit." Subsequently, similar missions multiplied as CIA Clandestine Services sent out special teams with authority to kill whenever "circumstances warranted." There were, among others, "White Star Training Mission" in Laos, "Operation Lodestone" in Northern Thailand "Study Project Minimax" in certain disaffected ethnic regions of Indonesia. Then, in the early 60s, With the CIA employment of the hard-bitten hill tribesmen of North Burma, Laos and Southwestern China as "deep penetration" and "long-range reconnaissance" teams into Red China, came large-scale, top-secret U.S. intelligence operations involving unlimited license to kill. Mitch WerBell's "silent-kill" weapons business did very well in those days, and Thai King Phumiphon personally hand carved a tiny rosewood Buddha for him.

. . .

"Another interesting associate of WerBell's is his buddy from his OSS days, Lucien Conein. "You've got to start with the premise that Lou Conein is crazy," said one of his former CIA bosses once. Crazy enough to always survive. Now a beefy, scarred and gnarled old grizzly, Conein left Kansas City when he was 17 to join the French Foreign Legion. In 1941, he switched to the OSS in France and lived and fought with the notorious Corsican Brotherhood, which was then part of the Resistance. (Later the Brotherhood would turn into an underworld organization deeply involved in drug trade and considered much more effective and dangerous than its Sicilian counterpart, the Mafia.) Moving to the Far East areas, Conein was part of an OSS team parachuted into Vietnam to fight the Japanese alongside the Vietminh. Later he married a Vietnamese, helped Ngo Dinh Diem consolidate his power in South Vietnam and then, turning against him, was the CIA's liaison with the cabal of generals who murdered Diem.

"It was Conein's involvement with the coup of the generals which led another old OSS cohort, E. Howard Hunt, to give him a call several years later. Hunt, by then, was working in the Nixon White House. Besides wanting Conein to release a group of phony telegrams which would have squarely blamed President Kennedy for the Diem assassination (Nixon then considered Edward Kennedy his prime political foe), Hunt recruited Conein for what was ostensibly the White House war against the international drug trade."


#25 James Richards

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 07:46 AM

weberman quotes Hemming that the station wagon belonged to Howard Davis. (Tim Gratz)

Tim,

I'm sure Howard K. Davis was just thrilled with that. ;)

James

#26 Tim Gratz

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 11:02 AM

Re familar faces in Dealey Plaza, it seems to me anyone smart enough to plan the assassination would be smart enough to be thousands of miles away from Dallas with a good alibi. Not to say he planned it, but Rosselli was at the Desert Inn in Vegas. If the "big fish" (as someone called a person at or near the top of the conspiracy) just HAD to be there to watch the action (to heck with an alibi!), don't you think they might have thought of a disguise? Presumably anyone who goes to the length to create false credentials could pick up left over hair dye from Halloween (well you know what I mean).

So it seems hard to believe a conspirator not involved in the actual operation would even show up at Dealey Plaza.

Then again, anything is possible. But I just read a comment by Fonzi that the HSCA spent $83,000 on photo analysis and got no useful information!

The most suspicious thing about Dealey Plaza may have been the three tramps who were not odiferous.

#27 James Richards

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 09:56 PM

Re familar faces in Dealey Plaza, it seems to me anyone smart enough to plan the assassination would be smart enough to be thousands of miles away from Dallas with a good alibi. (Tim Gratz)

Something to ponder here, several of our suspects were not exactly known to the public. I seriously doubt that people like Morales, Robertson, Conein, Hemming would have even raised an eyebrow (if they were there of course).

Mob guys being a bit different obviously. Roselli was reasonable well known as he was a man about town and his marriage to June Lang was all over the print media at the time. I can't see him being there but the others would not have cared one bit. IMO of course.

James

#28 Tim Gratz

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 08:12 AM

James, I agree that operatives e.g. Morales or Robertson might not have feared photographic capture but I suggest well known military leaders such as Conein should have. But even Morales and Robertson could have feared exposure if certain people in the CIA reviewed the photos. Then again, of course, if rogue CIA agents were involved, and if the CIA "brass" discovered that, the "CIA brass" might have covered that up to protect the Agency.

#29 Tim Gratz

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 08:18 AM

David wrote:

Mary Ferrell noted to me years ago that when Madame Nhu visited Dallas in November 1963, it was Robert Surrey's daughter that presented her with flowers.
Surrey was Walker's right hand man.

When I was doing some research on the far right several years ago, I was looking for anything that they had to say about the assassination. I'm relying on my aging memory here and I'm paraphrasing, but there was a strange one liner in the National Chronicle circa 1965 that said if not for Diem's death, JFK would still be alive. The National Chronicle was the former Shasta County Chronicle, a far right newspaper that was edited by Hal Hunt.

Just a few head scratchers.

David,
Thanks for the information that Madame Nhu was indeed in Dallas. Can you confirm the date? The connection to Gen. Walker does also add food for thought.

Re the remark in the National Chronicle, it is hard, of course, to believe that the assassination was planned in less than a month. (The Diems were murdered on November 1, 1963.)

I also continue to wonder why Madame Nhu would give money to Conein who co-ordinated the coup and probably also facilitated the murders by refusing a plane to provide the Diems safe passage out of Nam. You'd think she would have had him killed too--if not before Dallas, after.


#30 James Richards

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 09:35 AM

I have produced a biography of Conein. I have been unable to find any real link between Conein and the assassination. Several researchers have implied this by pointing out Conein's link to other people/organizations suspected of being involved in the assassination:

CIA covert operations that involved assassinations of foreign leaders
Corsican Brotherhood (during the Second World War)
Ted Shackley (at CIA station in Nuremberg)
William Harvey (at CIA station in Berlin)
Edward Lansdale (in Vietnam)
William Colby (CIA station chief in Saigon)
E. Howard Hunt (manufacturing false documents)
Mitchell WerBell (arms salesman)
JM/WAVE CIA station in Miami
Richard Nixon (Drug Enforcement Administration)

Leroy Fletcher Prouty claimed that Conein has been identified as being in Dallas on the day of the assassination. Others have suggested that he was standing at the corner of Main and Houston at the time Kennedy was killed. However, Larry Hancock has investigated Conein and believes he never left Vietnam during 1963.

http://www.spartacus...k/JFKconein.htm


Another intriguing connection for Conein is to Al Cox. Who, you might say? Cox is one of those under researched characters who have escaped major scrutiny.

Cox was a major player from the OSS days and ended up at the JMWAVE station as chief of the paramilitary division. I believe Shackley mentions him briefly in his book.

Back in 1945, Cox wrote some glowing references for Conein (see one below) and maintained a friendship with him up until Cox died in 1973.

FWIW.

James




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