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Neville Gully

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  1. The phone is next to the pillar. This photo was incorrectly labelled as Truly's office. It is in fact looking from the area of the freight elevators to the south east. Truly's office is in the background. Eddie Piper's statement mentioning Oswald's short lunchtime calls. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/34/3420-001.gif
  2. Jack Dougherty. Said he wanted to see the president but the crowd was too big. Jack obviously didn't think to look out of one of the large windows on the fifth floor he says he was on when the motorcade went by, unlike Harold Norman, Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman who did watch it from the fifth floor windows. Funnily enough these are three people that Jack didn't see (or hear) on the same floor as himself... ...and they didn't see (or hear) him. If he was even on the first floor. Jack seems to be geographically challenged. He did not even know Indiana was in the US! Com on now..... Indiana is where now? Mike, Roy Truly trusted Jack D to open the TSBD every morning. He had the keys to the building. He was the first in there each and every day. Don't believe everything you hear, or read, about big & slow Jack Dougherty. Mr. BALL - Did you ever leave the United States during the War? Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes. Mr. BALL - Where did you go? Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was stationed, oh, for about a year up in Indiana up there---Seymour, Ind. Mr. BALL - Then where did you go from there in the service? Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I stayed there until I got discharged. Further he does not even seem to know if the shots were before lunch or after. The guys is clearly not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Maybe ol'JD was hard of hearing and thought Ball said "Did you ever leave the state during the War?" Perfectly acceptible answer then. Another employee who claimed to watch the morocade but would have seen almost nothing due to his position was Eiddie Piper. Frazier's position at the top of the steps gave him a limited view. He did not see the car after it passed the entrance. He claimed it had gone out of sight down the slope of Elm before the first shot rang out.
  3. Soviets Planned to Accept JFK’s Joint Lunar Mission Offer by Frank Sietzen "SpaceCast News Service" Washington DC - October 2, 1997 - Soviet Premiere Nikita S. Khrushchev reversed himself in early November, 1963 and had at the time, decided to accept U.S. President John F. Kennedy's offer to convert the Apollo lunar landing program into a joint project to explore the Moon with Soviet and U.S. astronauts, SpaceCast learned Wednesday from one of the last remaining participants in the decision still alive. On the eve of the 40th anniversary of the world's first space satellite, the Soviet Sputnik 1, Sergei Khrushchev, eldest son of the former Premiere and Soviet Union Communist Party General Secretary said that his father made the decision in November 1963 following a renewed Kennedy initiative to sell the Soviets on a joint manned lunar program. "My father decided that maybe he should accept (Kennedy's) offer, given the state of the space programs of the two countries (in 1963)", Khrushchev told SpaceCast following a talk before a NASA conference in Washington on the effects of the historic Sputnik launch on Oct. 4, 1957. Sputnik was the world's first artificial satellite of the Earth, and its autumn 1957 launch into orbit is widely credited with starting the superpower space race that lasted until the end of the Cold War in 1991. Kennedy had made the offer of a joint manned lunar program to the Russians on several occasions, but his most aggressive effort was made in a speech before the United Nations General Assembly on Sept. 20, 1963 in New York. At the end of that address, Kennedy said: "In a field where the United States and the Soviet Union have a special capacity - space - there is room for new cooperation, for further joint efforts." "I include among these possibilities," he added, "a joint expedition to the Moon." Why, the President asked, should the United States and the Soviet Union conduct parallel efforts that would include "duplication, of research, construction, and expenditure?" He laid out a proposal for a joint series of space missions, which if enacted, he said "will require a new approach to the Cold War." But like his earlier proposals to the Russians on joint manned spaceflight, this one also was rejected by the Khrushchev government. But Sergei Khrushchev told SpaceCast, that in the weeks after the rejection, his father had second thoughts. While the Premiere had agreed with Russian military leaders that said any joint Moon flight would provide an opportunity for the U.S. military to learn more about Russian rocket and missile programs, he now thought that it might be possible to learn more from the technology of the Americans. "He thought that if the Americans wanted to get our technology and create defenses against it, they would do that anyway. Maybe we could get (technology) in the bargain that would be better for us, my father thought." In late 1963, the Russian government was still designing their lunar launch vehicle, the N-1, and their manned spacecraft system, the Soyuz. Ultimately, the N-1 was abandoned following repeated launch failures. The Soviet manned lunar program would also be abandoned in the early 1970's following the U.S. landings in the Apollo program. The Soyuz was developed, however and became the spacecraft used in Russian space station programs, from the early 1970's right on through to today's MIR station. Sergei Khrushchev also said his father viewed the prospects of new western cooperation linked with plans to cut back on the Russian Army size from its level of 2.5 million men in 1963 to possibly as low as 500,000 conscripts. And Khrushchev was also planning to begin diverting weapons complex design bureaus into more consumer and commercial, non-military production, a process started by the Yeltsin government that is still evolving in today's Russia. If these newest revelations are correct, the prospects of a visit to the Soviet Union by President Kennedy during the 1964 Presidential campaign, suggested by several former Kennedy administration staffers or a visit to Russia early in a Kennedy second term might well have cemented the joint lunar plan. And such a Kennedy/Khrushchev initiative might have staved off the planning of a coup that eventually removed Khrushchev from office in October, 1964. "I think," Sergei Khrushchev said, "if Kennedy had lived, we would be living in a completely different world." But a week after the reversal decision was allegedly made, Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas and the decision was dropped. Although the Johnson administration made a similar offer for joint manned spaceflights early in 1964, the Russians were too suspicious of the new administration, some analysts have suggested. And, Khrushchev said, much of the rationale for the acceptance of the joint mission plan was the "chemistry" built up between his father and John F. Kennedy, who had clashed repeatedly with the Soviet leader during the previous two years but seemed to be moving towards a new relationship and foreign policy following the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis and Kennedy's speech before American University in the summer of 1963, proposing new U.S.-Soviet cooperation and a joint Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. The Soviet government viewed the Kennedy initiative started at American University as a major turning point in U.S.-Soviet relations during the Kennedy Presidency. Analysts, however, must be cautious about Khrushchev's new information. Both the Soviet Politburo and the U.S. Congress would have had to approve the bold plan, which would have abruptly ended the space competition started in 1957, and opened the U.S. space industry to direct Russian involvement, a radical idea in the 1960's Cold War environment. Some have also suggested that, given the political atmosphere of the time, the U.S. Congress of 1963/64 would not have looked too favorably on dropping a space program sold primarily as "beating the Russians to the Moon" for one that would, in essence, bring them along on a spacecraft and booster paid for by the U.S. taxpayer. But Kennedy fretted over the cost of the Apollo program almost literally until the day he died. A joint plan would have preserved the project while reducing the cost, further shifting its rationale onto foreign relations and superpower stability - goals now identified with the current US-Russian space partnership and a reason often given today for continuing the program. And had the President lived to conduct a 1964 campaign, U.S.-Soviet cooperation following years of tension may well have been a central element to the foreign policy espoused during that election effort. The available documentary evidence suggests that Kennedy was moving towards a new cooperative relationship with the Soviet government that he hoped to expand following a reelection in 1964. But history will never know what possibilities existed in the space program that was not to be, in what Sergei Khrushchev called "those wonderful golden years" now long passed into the mists of history. http://www.spacewar.com/news/russia-97h.html
  4. Pat, it seems that Colin's analysis, if I read it correctly was to 1) reduce the perspective of the TSBD photo 2) adjust the length of the bag without changing the width so that both bags are identical. This would remove the shortening effect of perspective. 3) placing the 2 bags side by side The interesting artifact is the stained area common to both bags at about the same position (red circles). This seems to indicate they are the same bag. However the TSBD bag is much more wrinkled and nothing like the "well pressed" appearance of the WC exhibit.
  5. I stumbled across this analysis of the bag on Duncan's forum. http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index...ic,1769.45.html
  6. How could it take more than 30 minutes to find the SN after Brennan, Euins and Worrell had all independantly reported the location to police outside the TSBD within minutes of the shots being fired? Mooney only stumbled on the SN after returning to search the 6th Floor a second time. He saw the chicken bones and bag in the SN FWIW. Just as well the DP has "officer friendly",Tippit, the "poor dumb cop" who managed to find the assassin all by himself with just a general description about the same time the SN was stumbled on. Amazing feat of policework considering his fellow officers' "Keystone Cops" antics.
  7. Thanks for your work Gil. This is one of the obvious impressions one gets when looking at the Oswald interactions with the press. The guy was screaming out for a lawyer at almost every opportunity. News obviously got to New Orleans about his need for legal assistance - enter Clay and Deano. Wouldn't that have been a circus if Andrews had turned up in Dallas!! I've always wondered why the Dallas police and others in authority allowed the reporters so much access to the hallways etc. Really getting in the way of police business and shoving to get the next bit of news. Then again, without all that confusion and caos how would a hothead like Ruby been able to do the deed? Suprising he took so long to do it really......he had ample opportunity in the hallway every time Oswald was moved. Too easy when you look at the lax security in that building for nearly 2 days. On a side note.......In the videos found here http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index...pic,1331.0.html Apart from the items mentioned above........2 other scenes made an impression on me. One was Wade saying on Friday night, (if I remember correctly), that he was sure Oswald would not confess. Seemed strange for such an open and shut case that they felt they could not eventually break him (especially without a lawyer's assistance). The second was the look on Oswald's face, when informed by someone at the late night press conference that he had been charged with the President's murder. That did not seem to be reaction of someone who had blown JFK's head off 12 hours earlier. Seemed like he was in total disbelief of what was going on around him.
  8. Excellent thread! According to his testimony BRW is on the 6th Floor because he thought other workmates would be viewing from there...... "Mr. BALL. Why did you go to the sixth floor? Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time everybody was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor. Mr. BALL. Did anybody go back? Mr. WILLIAMS. Nobody came back up. So I just left." At this time we have BRW snacking on a chicken sandwich, JD working either on the 5th or 6th and a sniper hiding in the boxes. Noone reports seeing anyone. What if Lovelady and or Arce decide to do what BRW says they are going to do......come up to the 6th Floor? Seems like we might have 2 individuals guarding the critical area at the critical time. JD loitering around the lift/stairwell and BRW closer to the windows........just in case someone comes up they can be persuaded to move to a lower floor. Once the critical time is reached......say 12.25 both can move to the 5th floor and be confident that the sniper will not be discovered as the President is due. Question is.......if JD was where he he said he was why didn't BRW and JD see each other on either 5th or 6th Floors and why didn't Jarman and Norman see JD if he was on the 5th when they arrived. If JJ and HN can be believed then one assumes JD is still on the 6th when they get to the 5th. If so, BRW should have seen JD on the way down to join the others. As for the white/bald spot issue. This stuck me watching the 1964 CBS Warren Report video on Youtube courtesy od David von Pein. BRW has a distinctive receding hairline and the studio lighting gives him a white spot high on his forehead. Where was the sun shining from at 12.30........? See image below.....I've altered brighness only to accentuate the spot.
  9. Another thought on the way Jack Dougherty was handled in the investigation. He has no supported alibi, was closer to the nest at the time of the shooting (by his own admission) than Oswald. (I assume by now we are fairly certain LHO was not in the SN at 12.30 from the previous posts in this thread). He also stated that he saw Oswald enter the TSBD emptyhanded. Could he have seen where Oswald stashed the rifle without Oswald seeing him, retrieved it and been involved in the shooting somehow? I am not saying this is what happened, merely proposing an alternative way in which the shooting could have occurred, one that any decent law enforcement agency should have investigated thoroughly to attempt to rule it out even if they thought Oswald did it.
  10. Seems like Bill, Dennis and myself are not too far apart on this afterall. I agree with Bill, the conspiracy was intended to be discovered and point to Casto involvement but LBJ/Hoover et al quickly jumped on the LN senario instead of the Cuba invasion as they were intended to. Perhaps Lyndon got a taste of the missile crisis fear and wanted a Presidency that had potential to last for more than a few weeks if the invasion quickly escalated to US v USSR battle. Our only main point of difference is, did LHO have an awareness of the plan for him to be blamed or not?
  11. I tend to agree with you on this one Dennis. The question is...... What was LHO's understanding of "The Plot", is the key I believe. In a previous post, in this thread, I outlined that maybe he thought he was part of a "protest" designed to facilitate his escape to Cuba. He would be falsely accused at firing shots from his rifle during the motoracade. Maybe this was to be part of a larger Nothwoods style operation to force Kennedy into supporting the second invasion that was in the wings. Something like....well Castro said he would get you..... now he has tried what are you going to do? As you stated for this to work LHO could not have a solid alibi, so he simply stays out of sight until the motorcade passes but in an area that is well away from where he believes the the gunfire is to take place, then leaves afterward (as he showed was possible). However shortly after the Baker incident he discovers that the President has been shot and realizes he is now in peril. I believe that evidence against a much wide conspiracy is his ability to survivr the Texas Theatre episode, where is would have been easy for him to be silenced in a hail of bullets after drawing a gun on a policeman. (Please note that I am only stating the official story here for Oswald's capture and arrest, I know there is debate about these events also.)
  12. Coincidentally, this thread has subsequently appreared at the JFK Lancer Forum discussing the Perry re-enactment http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...80201&page= Sean Murphy claims that dialogue with Dave Perry and Gary Mack confirms certain inaccuracies......including the lack of floor landings in the building used. Just when you think you have found something new......you find others have before you......such is life.
  13. I am somewhat reluctant to lay out what I think happened but here goes anyway. Oswald was sold the story by someone in intel (or with intel contacts) to try and gain access to Cuba. To LHO that was his mission and the Walker shooting was part of this plan. I am not convinced at all that he intended to kill Walker or even if it was him who took the shot but certainly he left evidence of his involvement that could be used to point the finger when required. The trip to New Orleans and the FPFC activities, leaflets, scuffles and debates with anti-Castro types all help to paint the picture nicely. Straight from the Operation Northwoods playbook. Second invasion of Cuba in the works and all that is needed is a catalyst for invasion. Remember that Lee is looking for a way to get into Cuba, so maybe some event could be staged that would help him complete his quest. Kennedy coming to Dallas. Shots fired from a rifle owned by (but not shot by) a Commie, a member of the FPFC during the motorcade might just do it. As told to LHO, no one is going to be hurt, it's more like a protest. Lee is guaranteed an escape from the USA, unjustly accused and seeking refuge in Cuba. Come on Fidel let me in or stay. To the proponents of the Second Invasion the plan is that Kennedy will be shot only Lee doesn't see this coming. This will be the catalyst and Oswald (and others if neccessary) will quickly be implicated. Note the spate of false info coming out almost immediately implicating Castro (and sometimes Russia) in the deed. The Second Invasion planners misread the reaction to the assasination however. Johnson and Hoover do not support anything but the lone nut senario. There is a shutdown on anything that smells anything like the C-word (conspiracy not communism). I tend to believe this is the second conspiracy - the coverup. In this senario we can get Oswald shooting at Walker, if you want to believe that. We get Oswald seeking employment somewhere along the motorcade route and maybe even offering to supply his rifle for the "protest". It only takes a few individuals with knowledge of the plans for the Second Invasion, the Operation Northwoods proposal and the activites of LHO to put the pieces together. No need for a high level conspiracy, just an assumption from the planners that the outcry and political leaders wil take the bait. As we know they didn't........just as Kennedy didn't throw air cover at BOP when pressured or jump into WWIII during the missile crisis. Instead he vowed never to invade Cuba and in doing so most likely sealed his fate. A final thought. Thanks to Duke Lane's analysis of the activites of Jack D. at the crucial time we can now see that either 1) he saw LHO go down the stairs and lied - can't believe he would do that if he wasn't involved himself - if he is = conspiracy (maybe he was the shooter!) 2) He saw no-one - so shooters on the 6th Floor were still there until after he took the lift to the first floor - therefore shooter is NOT Oswald 3) He was involved as a lookout for the shooter(s) = conspiracy Big question is, given the importance of his tesimony and his location at the crucial time........what the hell were the Warren Commission doing? He was the crucial witness, unless he lied about where he was and what he did.
  14. Thanks for the links Bill. In fact you can see that the angles are very deceiving in this matter. There is an open box in my graphic part C. This same open box is visible in the lower left of the window in B. It seems to me that if anyone was visible to Baker on his way to the sairs up to level 3 they would more likely have been in the vestibule area, close to the door and not in the lunchroom. If Jack Dougherty was acting as a lookout near the stairs on 5th (or 6th) floor, as Duke has theorized, could LHO have acted in a similar role on the 2nd, peering out the vestibule window?
  15. Thanks for the tip Greg.......Interesting info in those threads.
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