David Von Pein

No need for me to put on a show, Kenny. Your current "Pretend All The Evidence Is Fake" act is the headliner around here. That show can't be topped---for laughs. Especially your latest act regarding the front-seat bullet fragments. I'd love to hear you present your Post #236 to a jury. The roars of laughter would be deafening.... "And so? No evidence they [CE567/569] were fired from that rifle. No evidence they were fired while JFK was in the limo. No evidence they were not planted there. How much more you need DVP? .... To put it plain and simple DVP, you got nothing. LOL....just a plain ole Nutter shilling for the WC. All smoke and mirrors, no substance." -- K. Drew The best part is this gem.... "No evidence they were fired while JFK was in the limo."

You can't get anything right, can you Ken? Even when I quote my statements back to you, you still get them wrong. My previous statement regarding your silly "handgun" post was perfectly stated. I said you said that "just maybe" JFK was shot with a handgun. Do try to keep up. .... "To show just how pathetic and miserable the case for conspiracy is at this forum, Ken Drew is running around trying to pretend that just maybe JFK was killed by a pistol shot--or a handgun of some type. Even with CE567/569 staring him in the face (assuming he even knows what those are). The case for "denying the evidence" doesn't get much stronger than that." -- DVP

Now wait a second, Bob. Isn't the most popular theory for the "fake backyard photos" the one that has a REAL PERSON standing in the Neely backyard holding a rifle and that only the HEAD of Oswald was pasted onto this "other person's" body? So, if that's the theory, the Oswald stand-in would still have a THUMB on his left hand too. So the "stand-in" would be the "freak" with the weird thumb. Just HOW MANY things can you guys come up with that "don't quite look right" in the BY pictures? Is there any limit? So, Bob, I guess you think that NOBODY was really standing in the Neely backyard at all, is that right? And pretty much everything except the background was added into the picture artificially? Including the freakish left thumb that apparently belonged to NO flesh-and-blood person? Is that correct? And don't forget the alleged "impossible" leaning posture being exhibited by the "person" (or the drawn-in person) in the picture too. And the stubby fingers on the "person's" right hand too. Don't forget that. Plus the "impossible" shadows. And the cropped chin. Did I leave anything out? Keep looking at the pic below. I'm sure before the end of the day, you can add a dozen more things that you see in the photo that are "impossible". And keep ignoring Marina whatever you do. She has always said she took the backyard pictures. But she was probably just dreaming the whole thing. Right, Bob?

Watch the video on this page, Chuck. The Carcano was easily capable of firing all three shots in well under 6 or 7 seconds, with fairly good accuracy....as these riflemen demonstrated in 1967: jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/12/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-499.html

The C2766 rifle that Klein's mailed to Oswald/(Hidell) has LHO's prints on it, David. Three prints, in fact. That's definitive proof that Oswald had the C2766 weapon in his possession at some point in time. And since it's obvious that OSWALD had the C2766 weapon in his possession at some point in time, then why would you think that OSWALD did not ORDER the weapon himself from Klein's (especially in light of all that paperwork that proves he DID order it)? Or are you going to argue that the three LHO prints were planted there too? (And, yes, I'm including the two trigger guard prints.) Good luck in pretending those three LHO prints are "tainted" and "worthless" too.

Looks like Ken is suffering from another bout of his "false memory" again. He doesn't seem to recall much of anything he has written--even stuff he wrote yesterday. Just a little more than 24 hours ago, Kenneth Drew said the following in this Education Forum post.... "Certainly could have been with a handgun." -- K. Drew My post in response to Ken's absurd "handgun" speculation is, therefore, a perfectly accurate summary of what Ken had said.... "To show just how pathetic and miserable the case for conspiracy is at this forum, Ken Drew is running around trying to pretend that just maybe JFK was killed by a pistol shot--or a handgun of some type. Even with CE567/569 staring him in the face (assuming he even knows what those are). The case for "denying the evidence" doesn't get much stronger than that." -- DVP And that statement--all by itself--ranks as one of the dumbest statements ever written on any JFK forum since the invention of this great thing called "The Internet". Congrats. Take another look at CE567 and CE569 again, Kenneth. How do you think those two bullet fragments from the C2766 rifle managed to get into the front seat of the President's limousine? Just take a wild, off-the-wall guess. JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2011/09/ce567-and-ce569.html I think you just might have topped yourself in the "Dumbest Statements" category, Ken. Nice job. A hat trick! Three incredibly dumb statements in just one single post. Not easy to accomplish, but Ken makes it look easy. Ken thinks the C2766 Carcano rifle can't be "associated" with the JFK shooting. Even though the following items exist in the evidence pile.... ...Three bullet shells from the C2766 rifle. ...Two large bullet fragments from the C2766 rifle. ...The stretcher bullet (CE399) from the C2766 rifle. (And as much as Ken and all other conspiracy theorists hate that CE399 bullet, it's still there in the JFK assassination evidence pile nonetheless. And it always will be.) ...And then there's the C2766 rifle itself, which I guess Ken wants to pretend really WASN'T found on the sixth floor of the Book Depository Building at all. Isn't it embarrassing to be THIS wrong about everything, Kenneth? I would think it would be.

Sorry, I can't see what you're seeing, Ken. I see no sign of the strap meeting up with the alleged "sling mount".

It wasn't. That's merely Unproven Conspiracy Myth #4,106. But I get a big kick out of the theory that has a group of assassins planning IN ADVANCE for a shot through the windshield. That's funnier than all these Jack Benny shows combined. JFK is riding in an OPEN car. His whole upper body and head are exposed to the assassins. So what do these brilliant plotters want to do? They want to arrange a shooting that REQUIRES them to shoot through the windshield glass! What's not to love about such idiotic assassination planning? There was no hole in the windshield at ANY time---period. Only a crack. No hole. Just like Robert Frazier said in his testimony. (Another rotten xxxx, Ken?)

Great comeback, Ray. (And so original too.)

Well, he'd have to know the difference between 17 degrees and "45 to 60 degrees". And, quite obviously, Humes didn't. Plus, the mere fact that Humes' guesstimate included a huge, wide range of angles -- from 45 to 60 degrees (that's a pretty big range of angles) -- suggests that Dr. Humes really wasn't sure at all about the angle of declination of the bullet through JFK's upper back. It would have been better if Humes hadn't guessed about the angle at all. Because a "45 to 60 degree" guesstimate is not worth very much. Good thing we have photos to prove Humes was wrong on that one, huh? That was a "guess" on Humes' behalf, true. But, as mentioned, it's the only possible REASONABLE guess given the 5 variables I laid out in Post 211 above.

Already answered. See Post 207.

Good point, Bruce. I had never even thought of that point you just brought up. If the "thingie"/"object" that CTers claim is a "sling mount" in the backyard photo is really a MOUNT for a SLING, then why isn't Oswald's SLING attached to that SLING MOUNT in the picture? It sure doesn't look like it is. And part of the sling is certainly visible in the photo too....

David J., You're looking back at a very early Executive Session of the WC, right? (It was a January Exec. Session, correct?) Well, at that time, no witnesses had been called to testify, and some things still needed to be ironed out and cleared up (quite naturally). That was the reason the Warren Commission was formed in the first place---to get the facts and find out what the truth was. But as of that Jan. '64 Exec. Session you're quoting from, the WC was still confused about the remarks of Dr. Malcolm Perry, who said in his public conference at Parkland on 11/22/63 that the wound in the throat looked like an entry wound to him. So that's undoubtedly why Mr. Rankin was still appearing a bit undecided and confused about the throat wound. It was still very early in the WC's investigation. Perry hadn't been called to testify yet. Nor had anybody else. Rankin and the other Commission members were just thinking out loud. They didn't have any concrete answers or conclusions at that point in time in JANUARY. Isn't that obvious, David? It is to me.

1.) Bullet hole of entry in the upper back. 2.) Bullet hole of either entry or exit in the front of JFK's neck. 3.) No bullets inside JFK's body at all. 4.) No bullet FRAGMENTS inside JFK's neck/back either. 5.) Very little damage to any internal structures of JFK's upper back and neck. Logical conclusion (and the only possible reasonable conclusion that Humes & Company could have arrived at).... The bullet that entered JFK's upper back had to have exited through the OTHER bullet hole on the opposite side of his body (in the lower throat). What OTHER conclusion should the autopsists have come to (given the above set of facts), Ian?

David Josephs, I think when J. Lee Rankin said a "fragment" came out of JFK's neck, he undoubtedly meant "bullet" -- as in the WHOLE BULLET that the autopsy doctors determined DID come out the front of the neck. I think it's quite obvious that Rankin's "fragment" is the same as the "whole" bullet. Surely, you're not suggesting that Rankin thought that BOTH a "fragment" AND a whole bullet exited JFK's throat, are you? This is the very same kind of loose talk regarding the words "fragments" and "missile" that surrounds the Sibert/O'Neill report too. Only it's reversed from the S&O report. The corpsman who wrote the memo for the Sibert report wrote "missile" when it should have said "fragments". While Rankin appears to have used the wrong word ("fragment") instead of the correct word ("bullet"). I think you're drowning in semantics there, David. Nothing more.

And yet there are still very few Internet CTers who seem to want to accept the obvious truth regarding Oswald's rifle purchase. We still have people insisting Oswald never ordered any rifle at all from Klein's. This thread is in response to that 50-year myth. I posted it to set the record straight and to show that Oswald definitely DID order a rifle from Klein's in 1963. And only someone who is desperate to disregard all kinds of proof of that rifle transaction could possibly believe LHO did not order that rifle. I'll repeat something I said to James Gordon in a private message last month.... "Yes, my opinion is pretty firm on the "LN" and "WC" side of things, but that's because I believe ALL of the physical evidence supports Oswald's guilt (and supports the SBT as well). And when someone decides to (IMO) misrepresent things...then I think I should call them on it and point out those misrepresentations (and/or errors in their thinking). And most of the "LNer vs. CTer" debates, IMO, really DO come down to pointing out and correcting the misrepresentations made over and over again by the CTers on forums. I see it all the time---on Edu. Forum, on Facebook, on Duncan MacRae's forum, on McAdams' newsgroup, on IMDB---everywhere. CTers perpetuate myth after myth, year after year, and that's a big reason I post on forums today---to give the other side to anyone who cares to absorb it. Most CTers, of course, think that it's I who "misrepresent" the facts. I feel strongly otherwise. So there's the perpetual stalemate --- Who's right? Who's wrong? That debate will likely never end." -- David Von Pein; May 16, 2015

Bruce, I'm not convinced that the object that CTers are referring to as a "sling mount" in the backyard photograph is really part of the rifle at all. It looks to me (especially in the super-big version below) that the "sling mount" might be something in the background behind Oswald.... Extra large version -----> Lee-Harvey-Oswald-Backyard-Photo.jpg BTW, Bruce, that "JFK Research" site is not mine.

No. Benavides said in his WC testimony that the man he saw shoot Tippit "looked like" and "resembled" Oswald. So he was, in effect, identifying Oswald during his 1964 WC session here. So it seems kind of funny to me that the "Hit Squad" would have had any desire at all to rub out Domingo, because he is essentially saying here that it WAS Oswald. So why the need to rub him out (as so many CTers seem to want to believe)?.... DAVID BELIN -- "You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?" DOMINGO BENAVIDES -- "From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald."

There weren't "two different rifles". There was one rifle --- the "C2766" rifle. That's the ONLY rifle connected to this case and the only one that has ever been connected to it. THAT'S the "reality". As I said to Kenneth the other day --- Maybe it's time for CTers to stop believing in all the myths that continue to surround this murder case.

You're right, Ray, that fictional "45 to 60 degrees" business IS silly. Where could that gunman have been located to achieve that steep of an angle? In a 707 that just departed Love Field? ~shrug~ The key to knowing the "45 degree" stuff was just a totally WILD guess on Humes' part is this testimony from Dr. Humes..... "Mathematics is not my forte." -- J.J. Humes; 1964

How about this reason?: Lee Oswald needed to dump the shells from his revolver so that he could then re-load the gun with more unfired bullets in case he needs to shoot more cops later on. Seems reasonable to me. How about you, Ron? Glenn? And, of course, this topic about Oswald dumping the shells on the ground (manually!) totally defeats another common conspiracy argument---the one about Officer Tippit being shot with an automatic weapon. If Tippit was killed with an automatic, can somebody explain to me WHY the empty shells were found up near the corner of 10th & Patton? And two of the shells were actually found by the Davis girls in their SIDE YARD--around the corner! (See Page 266 of Dale Myers' "With Malice".) Which means that if a gunman had shot Tippit at the place where those shells were found, he would have been shooting right through the Davises' apartment house. Plus, there is no witness who said the gunman was firing at Tippit from right AT the corner of Tenth & Patton. The gunman was located next to Tippit's police car up the street. So if the gunman had used an automatic, the shells would have been found right there next to the patrol car, not way up the street at the corner. The only possible way for the conspiracy theorists to have a prayer at being right when it comes to their argument about an automatic gun being used in the Tippit shooting is for those CTers to totally disregard the uniform testimony of multiple witnesses (Barbara Davis, Virginia Davis, and Domingo Benavides), who all said they saw--with their own eyes--the gunman physically dumping bullet shells from the gun just after the shooting. And all three of those witnesses positively identified the gunman as Lee Harvey Oswald. The two Davis girls IDed Oswald right away, on the weekend of the assassination. Benavides later (in 1967) positively IDed the gunman he saw dumping shells in the bushes as Oswald. So if CTers want to toss aside Benavides' IDing of LHO, that's fine. But they've still got Davis and Davis to try and discredit. jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/murder-of-jd-tippit-part-1.html

Does every LNer have to be "representing" somebody else? Get a grip. And Bruce's "little reality" comment is a howl. IOW, the person who has ALL of the physical evidence on his side (that'd be me) is somehow a person who is dealing with "little reality". That's comical. And dripping with irony that no doubt just sails over Bruce's cranium.

Humes was using ordinary common sense, David. He knew there were no bullets in JFK's body. And after he talked to Dr. Perry, he confirmed that the trach masked a bullet hole. Given these facts, should Humes have written this in the autopsy report?.... Two bullets entered the upper body of the President, one in the upper back and one entered the throat. Neither of these bullets caused much damage at all, and both missiles have disappeared without a trace. Sounds mighty silly, doesn't it? (It sure does. And is.)

As can be easily seen in the autopsy photos, Dr. Humes was right (and the HSCA was wrong) regarding the height of the two JFK wounds (back & throat). There was no "11-degree upward" angle through JFK's body. The back wound was anatomically higher than the throat wound (just like Dr. Humes told the WC in '64). And these photos prove it.... "The wound in the anterior portion of the lower neck is physically lower than the point of entrance posteriorly." -- Dr. James Humes; 1964

You're funny, David. Only in the world of JFK CTers could someone consider the huge pile of evidence against Oswald as being "outdated and debunked". I wonder how the facts and the physical evidence suddenly become "outdated". And none of that evidence has been "debunked", despite the CTer efforts to capsize the LN ship. Nothing has come along to supplant the conclusions reached by the Dallas Police on 11/22/63 and by the Warren Commission in 1964. Certainly nothing you CTers believe happened can replace the hard evidence put forth by the DPD and the WC. That's not even a close call. You don't have a single piece of physical evidence to back up your claim of conspiracy. Not one. And you never did. And you never will. Because no such evidence exists. Nor did it ever exist. To show just how pathetic and miserable the case for conspiracy is at this forum, Ken Drew is running around trying to pretend that just maybe JFK was killed by a pistol shot--or a handgun of some type. Even with CE567/569 staring him in the face (assuming he even knows what those are). The case for "denying the evidence" doesn't get much stronger than that. In short -- LNers possess all the physical evidence. CTers have Prayer Man, Umbrella Man, and their overactive imaginations. That's the way it's always been and always will be. Because Oswald killed Kennedy and Tippit. And LNers don't even need the Warren Commission to prove Oswald's guilt. The DPD already did that on Day 1.