David Von Pein

Video relating to Oswald's 1963 rifle purchase:

DEBUNKING THE "OSWALD NEVER ORDERED THE RIFLE" MYTH.... ====================== Here's a real doozy of a conspiracy myth: Lee Harvey Oswald never ordered any rifle at all from Klein's Sporting Goods in March of 1963. Now, given the overwhelming evidence in this case that proves Lee Oswald definitely did order the rifle that ultimately ended up being the weapon that killed John F. Kennedy, the above theory/myth is totally preposterous and should be downright embarrassing to any conspiracy theorist who suggests such a thing. And it's certainly not a new allegation either. In one of the first books ever written on the JFK assassination in 1966, "Rush To Judgment", lawyer and first-generation Warren Commission critic Mark Lane strongly suggested that there could have been something sinister going on with respect to the rifle and the way it was ordered through the mail. Lane also seemed to suggest the possibility that Oswald and A.J. Hidell (Oswald's alias) just might have been two different persons, which is an utterly implausible notion. Here's what Lane said in his book: "It is of course possible that Oswald or Hidell or someone else ordered a rifle from the February issue of The American Rifleman and that Klein's sent a different but similar weapon by mistake. Without a suitable explanation, however, the chain of evidence relating Oswald, or Hidell, to the weapon appears damaged. The Commission failed to explore this possibility and thereby closed its mind to an important aspect of the investigation." -- Page 138 of "Rush To Judgment" But, in reality, the "chain of evidence relating Oswald to the weapon" is not "damaged" at all, because the trail of evidence that tells any reasonable person that Mannlicher-Carcano rifle #C2766 (Commission Exhibit 139) was ordered, paid for, and possessed by Lee Harvey Oswald (aka "A. Hidell") is so extensive and complete and ironclad that it would take a person who has his head completely buried in conspiracy sand to believe that Oswald did not receive that exact rifle in the mail in late March 1963. THE RIFLE FACTS: 1.) It has been proven, beyond all reasonable doubt, that Lee Harvey Oswald did, in fact, order a mail-order rifle from Klein's Sporting Goods Company in Chicago in March of 1963. The handwriting on all of the documents connected with the Klein's transaction is that of Oswald's, which proves beyond all doubt that it was Oswald (and no other person) who ordered and paid for Carcano rifle #C2766 that was shipped to Oswald/Hidell by Klein's in March 1963 [Warren Report, p.118-122]. (But, of course, many conspiracy buffs no longer think any handwriting analysis is worth a hill of beans. Which would mean that all of the various handwriting experts who testified over the years that it was positively Oswald's writing on the multiple documents associated with the rifle purchase must have all been dead wrong--or they all simply lied.) 2.) Regardless of the fact that Oswald technically did order a 36-inch Italian carbine, per the words written in the February 1963 American Rifleman magazine ad that Oswald used to order the rifle (pictured below), Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago shipped a 40-inch rifle with serial number C2766 on it to "A. Hidell" on March 20, 1963. The internal paperwork generated by Klein's at the time in March of 1963 (see Waldman Exhibit No. 7 and the Warren Commission testimony of William J. Waldman, beginning at 7 H 360) confirms that Oswald/"Hidell" was shipped an Italian 6.5mm rifle with that exact serial number on it ("C2766"). The likely explanation for why Oswald received a 40-inch rifle instead of the 36-inch model that he ordered via the Klein's mail-order coupon is pretty simple and logical, and it is this: Klein's very likely ran out of the 36-inch model shortly before receiving Oswald's order, and hence shipped a very similar (but slightly lengthier) gun instead. In August 2010, Gary Mack of the Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza provided this writer with some detailed information concerning the advertisements that Klein's was running in American Rifleman magazine throughout the calendar year of 1963. Mr. Mack's research revealed the fact that the February '63 Klein's ad was very likely the last time during the year 1963 that Klein's advertised the 36-inch Italian carbine. All other ads for that year that Mack was able to find indicate that the 40-inch rifle was being advertised. Here's the breakdown of the Klein's ads for that year in American Rifleman magazine: Jan 63 -- p. 61 -- 36-inch 6.5 Italian Carbine -- $12.88 -- $19.95 (with scope) Feb 63 -- p. 65 -- Same ad as above Mar 63 -- No ad Apr 63 -- p. 55 -- 40-inch 6.5 Italian Carbine -- $12.88 -- $19.95 (with scope) May 63 -- Missing pp. 63-66 Jun 63 -- p. 59 -- 40-inch 6.5 Italian Carbine -- $12.88 -- $19.95 (with scope) Jul 63 -- p. 67 -- 40-inch 6.5 Italian Carbine -- $12.78 -- $19.95 (with scope) Aug 63 -- p. 79 -- Same ad as above Sep 63 -- p. 89 -- Same ad as above Oct 63 -- p. 85 -- Same ad as above Nov 63 -- No ad Dec 63 -- No ad [source: E-mail to David Von Pein from Gary Mack, August 18, 2010.] In that same e-mail, Gary Mack went on to say this: "Oswald ordered the 36-inch rifle but, probably due to Klein's running out of stock, he received the 40-inch model instead. The price remained the same, so Klein's may have just sent him the newly available model instead. They would certainly accept a return if he didn't want it. The [sixth Floor] Museum's copy of the May 1963 issue is missing four pages and, since Klein's ads normally ran in the back half of the magazine, it was likely on one of those pages. But as you can see, the ad for the months before and after May showed the exact same 40-inch rifle. I don't know when the American Rifleman normally went to press, but I would think they'd want the new issue to appear on the newsstands and in subscribers' mailboxes at or shortly before the beginning of each month. That would mean all ad copy must be ready and in the hands of the publisher at least 30 days ahead of time, maybe more. If Klein's ran out of 36-inch rifles in January, they might not even have enough time to get a corrected ad in by the March deadline. Maybe that's why there was no ad in the March issue. Perhaps Klein's sold out of the Carcano and other weapons and just couldn't update their new ad before the deadline." 3.) A palmprint belonging to that of Lee Harvey Oswald was discovered on a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle with the serial number C2766 on it after the gun was found on the sixth floor of the Book Depository on November 22, 1963. Conspiracy theorists can gripe and moan about how this palmprint of Oswald's never really existed at all, but we're still left with the official record in this case, and that record shows us that a palmprint of Oswald's was, in fact, lifted off of rifle C2766 by Dallas Police Lieutenant J.C. Day on 11/22/63, shortly before the weapon was turned over to the FBI late that night [see 4 H 261 and 4 H 24 and this 11/23/63 FBI memo]. 4.) In the early 1990s, fingerprint expert Vincent Scalice, by utilizing different methods of fingerprint photo comparison, was able to find well over a dozen points of identity linking the previously unidentified fingerprints on the trigger housing of the C2766 Carcano rifle to Lee Harvey Oswald's comparison prints. [see Part 3 of the 1993 PBS-TV documentary, "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?"] To any reasonable person who evaluates this evidence concerning the fingerprints found near the rifle's trigger, this shows that it's very likely that the last person who touched rifle C2766 prior to its being found on the sixth floor of the Book Depository was Lee Harvey Oswald. 5.) Just days after Klein's shipped rifle C2766 to Oswald/Hidell, Lee Oswald asked his wife, Marina, to take some pictures of him in the backyard of their small Neely Street apartment in Dallas [1 H 15-16]. As near as can be determined, those backyard pictures were taken by Marina Oswald on March 31, 1963. Klein's shipped the rifle to Oswald/Hidell on March 20th. So the timing is just about perfect in that regard. In other words, there was time for the rifle to reach Oswald's Dallas post office box in that 11-day interim. 6.) Photographic experts for the House Select Committee on Assassinations determined that the rifle that Oswald is holding in the backyard photos is "the same weapon" [6 HSCA 66] that was found by police on the sixth floor of the Book Depository on November 22, 1963. The HSCA determined, therefore, that the rifle being held by Lee Harvey Oswald in the backyard photographs was, in fact, the very same rifle that was determined to be the weapon used to assassinate John F. Kennedy: "A comparison of identifying marks that exist on the rifle as shown in photographs today with marks shown on the rifle in photographs taken in 1963 indicates both that the rifle in the Archives is the same weapon that Oswald is shown holding in the backyard picture and the same weapon, found by Dallas police, that appears in various postassassination photographs." [6 HSCA 66] Now, given all of the above evidence (plus adding in just a small amount of common sense to go with it), can any reasonable person really come to a conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald did not own and possess Mannlicher-Carcano rifle #C2766 in the year 1963? I'll answer that last question myself -- No, they cannot. Author Vincent Bugliosi made an excellent observation about some conspiracy theorists when he said this in his book "Reclaiming History", which is a quote that fits in nicely when discussing the topic of Oswald's rifle purchase: "The conspiracy community regularly seizes on one slip of the tongue, misunderstanding, or slight discrepancy to defeat twenty pieces of solid evidence; ...treats rumors, even questions, as the equivalent of proof; leaps from the most minuscule of discoveries to the grandest of conclusions; and insists that the failure to explain everything perfectly negates all that is explained." -------------- For additional discussions concerning Oswald's rifle purchase and the controversy surrounding the documents related to that gun purchase, check out the Internet weblinks located HERE and HERE. And also see pages 62-69 of "Beyond Reasonable Doubt: The Warren Report And Lee Harvey Oswald's Guilt And Motive 50 Years On". David Von Pein August 2010 February 2013 December 2014

And, of course, we can also go back earlier in the Z-Film and find many more frames which show the "blackness" on the back of JFK's head BEFORE he was even shot in the head. Here's just one example below--frame 275. And what about Roy Kellerman too? His head looks pretty black here as well. Does that mean Kellerman's head has been "blacked out" by film-fakers in Z275?....

Fabulous. It's now getting harder to keep up with the revised "new" theory that conspiracy theorists will now have to embrace in order to keep their "Blacked Out Head" theory alive and well. Here's the latest revision.... "JFK's and Clint Hill's and Nellie Connally's heads (and maybe a lot more heads too that nobody has even noticed yet) have been artificially blacked out in all post-Z313 frames of the Zapruder Film. Plus, JFK's head has also been artificially blacked out in frame 312, which is one-eighteenth of a second BEFORE he was even hit in the head by any bullet."

Thanks, Robin. The comments I made in Post 40 can now be revised as follows.... "So, from now on, whenever Ron Ecker and all other conspiracy theorists talk about this topic, the "New and Revised" theory has got to be this.... JFK's and Clint Hill's and Nellie Connally's heads (and maybe a lot more heads too that nobody has even noticed yet) have been artificially blacked out in all post-Z313 frames of the Zapruder Film. So, as we can see here, a dumb theory can easily snowball out of control." -- DVP; 5/21/2015

The back wound IS where it IS, Cliff. And there's nothing on this green Earth that either you or I can do to change the location of the ONE AND ONLY BULLET HOLE in John Fitzgerald Kennedy's upper back. It's right here in the autopsy picture below---for all to see 24/7. But, for some reason, you think it's much more reasonable to rely on the holes in the movable clothing of JFK to pinpoint the exact spot of the bullet's entry. Go figure. ~big shrug~ ....

The clothes! The clothes! ALWAYS the clothes! NOTHING else matters! Only the garments!

It's always all about the clothes, isn't it Cliff? The case lives or dies by the jacket and the shirt, right? Even though you know that the jacket and the shirt are MOVABLE OBJECTS on the body of John F. Kennedy.

Oh, really? "PROVEN AS FAKE", eh? Please tell me HOW the BY pics were "proven" to be fake, Ken. Of course, Kenneth Drew will do what most CTers do---he'll just totally ignore the following determinations reached by the HSCA.... "A comparison of the relative lengths of parts of the alleged assassination rifle that is in the National Archives with corresponding parts of what purports to be that rifle as shown in various photographs taken in 1963 indicates that the dimensions of the rifle(s) depicted are entirely consistent. .... A comparison of identifying marks that exist on the rifle as shown in photographs today with marks shown on the rifle in photographs taken in 1963 indicates both that the rifle in the Archives is the same weapon that Oswald is shown holding in the backyard picture and the same weapon, found by Dallas police, that appears in various postassassination photographs." -- 6 HSCA 66 "The panel detects no evidence of fakery in any of the backyard picture materials." -- 6 HSCA 146 And would that include the J.D. Tippit murder as well, Ken? (Even though your favorite patsy named Oswald was caught red-handed with the Tippit murder weapon in his very own hands just 35 minutes after Tippit was murdered?) jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/hilarious-defense-of-oswald.html jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#JD-Tippit

Once again, we're treated to Cliff Varnell assigning ludicrous levels of presumed spot-on accuracy to things that nobody can know with 100% certainty by merely looking at a photograph (such as the Croft photo) --- such as the EXACT amount of "bunching" of JFK's clothing. But Cliff pretends he can extrapolate perfect, to-the-millimeter "bunching" measurements JUST by looking at the photos. In a word --- Ridiculous.

Oh, so you DO think Brennan can be seen in the Zapruder Film at the time of the head shot, eh? Please show me that frame of the film which shows Brennan sitting on the wall as JFK was getting shot in the head. I'm really anxious to see that. And, btw, Brennan's affidavit was not written "some days later" either. It was written by Brennan himself on 11/22/63, the day the event happened.

John Connally had his brains blown out in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963? Gee, that's news to me. My comment above about frame 227 has nothing to do with John Kennedy having his brains blown out. I was focusing exclusively on Connally's reactions in the pre-Z227 frames of the Zapruder Film when I made that statement. The discussion that James Gordon and I were having had nothing at all to do with the fatal shot to JFK's head. Do you need better reading glasses, Kenneth? (I just bought half-a-dozen extra pairs last month for a really good low price. You can have a pair if you need them.)

And so you think we can actually SEE Howard Brennan throughout the ENTIRE Zapruder Film? Is that it, Kenneth? You'd better go and have another look at the Z-Film, because the last frame where Brennan is visible in the film is Z207 or Z208, which is more than 100 frames before the head shot. This is embarrassing to even have to respond to such provably wrong garbage. But the person who should be even more embarrassed is Kenneth Drew, for even suggesting that the Zapruder Film provides proof that Howard Brennan was not looking at the Book Depository "at the time of the shooting". Brennan's testimony is quite clear -- he saw the TSBD gunman fire the LAST shot at the President.... "I was looking at the man in this window at the time of the last explosion." -- Howard L. Brennan; 11/22/63 Affidavit And Brennan said the same thing in his Warren Commission testimony.

I just wanted to see DVP use the word "silly" again. Well, Ron, If you keep posting stuff like you just did in this thread, you're likely to see that word a whole lot more.

No matter how deep into the pit of never-ending conspiracy and "alteration" Ron has to go in order to endorse an impossible theory, he's apparently willing to go there. And I'll bet a lot of other CTers are willing to go there too. Thanks, Ron. Your posts in the thread are a perfect example of CTer desperation on full display.

I provided a reason. It's in Post 31. You just don't like my explanation, that's all. .... "So, quite obviously, since the back of JFK's head is still dark in Z340, it must mean that the back of his head is still deep enough in shadow so that the sunlight is not directly shining on that part of his cranium."

Thank you, Ron! Perfect timing! After writing my last post, I was hoping and praying that some CTer on here would post something that says, in effect, the alleged film-fakers DID, indeed, ALSO alter Clint Hill's head in the Zapruder Film. As we can see via Ron Ecker's last post, when a really silly idea gets started (like the theory about JFK's head being "blacked out" in the Z-Film), and when the silliness of that idea is brought to the forefront by someone (which I have done in this discussion), then the conspiracy theorists are forced to do a lot of scrambling and damage control in order to still embrace and endorse the silly idea they want to endorse. So, from now on, whenever Ron Ecker and all other conspiracy theorists talk about this topic, the "New and Revised" theory has got to be this.... Both JFK's and Clint Hill's heads (and maybe a lot more heads too that nobody has even noticed yet) have been artificially blacked out in all post-Z313 frames of the Zapruder Film. So, as we can see here, a dumb theory can easily snowball out of control. Over and out.

Thanks for the close-up of Clint Hill in Z340, Robin. And I realize that we're looking at Hill in that Z-frame through the sprocket holes, which makes things a little "hazier" (if that's the right word) when looking at objects in that part of the film strip, but that "looking through the sprocket holes" fact doesn't change the BLACKNESS that is most definitely apparent on the back of Clint Hill's head. And, to emphasize again --- Since no plotter or conspirator bent on altering or faking the Zapruder Film would possibly have had any need or desire to alter any part of Clint Hill's image in the film, then I think even most conspiracy believers would agree with me that the "blackness" that we see at the back of Clint Hill's head in frame 340 is legitimate, unaltered blackness being seen on his head. Therefore, since Hill's "blackness" is real and legit in Z340, then why would anybody think that the similar "blackness" at the back of President Kennedy's head in Z317 (which is just 1.25 seconds earlier than Z340 in the very same home movie) is blackness that must have been added to the film by some unknown film-fakers? It's time to stamp the "blacked out head" theory with this label --- DEBUNKED!

Obviously you're wrong, because the back of JFK's head does not have the noonday sun shining directly on it. But I've got a question for you, Robert.... Do you think the back of JFK's head has been artificially "blacked out" in this Z-Film frame?....

I never sleep, Bob. The bigwigs at Langley have been cracking the whip lately. All CIA Disinfo agents are now on call 24/7. It's a bitch. I even have to beg for my meals.

Mighty weak, Bob. The two pictures in my comparison are only 1.25 seconds apart in real time. Do you really think the degree of blackness (due to shadow) is going to have changed THAT much in just 1.25 seconds? Plus, as I mentioned before, many CTers think JFK's head has been "blacked out" in ALL post-Z313 frames. (Of course they think that. It would be kind of silly to believe in the "blacked out" theory and yet believe that only SOME Z-frames showing the back of Kennedy's head AFTER the head shot have been blacked out. Right?) So my comparison of the Z317 and Z340 frames is perfectly appropriate, given what many CTers believe about ALL of the post-Z313 frames depicting JFK's head. And as can be plainly seen in Z340, the back of Clint Hill's head is pitch black....just exactly like Kennedy's head in Z317. And the only difference that I can see in the two men's position (relating to the sun in the sky) is that Hill's head is turned a little more to his right (north) in Z340 than JFK's head is in Z317. So, quite obviously, since the back of JFK's head is still dark in Z340, it must mean that the back of his head is still deep enough in shadow so that the sunlight is not directly shining on that part of his cranium. Try again, Bob. Maybe your next theory will make more sense. Because my Hill/JFK comparison photo destroys the "blacked out" theory, IMO.

In this comparison I made below of the head positions of Secret Service agent Clint Hill and JFK, it doesn't look to me as if Hill's head is in a position (relative to the sun) that is all that much different than JFK's head position. Does it? And yet I see the same blackness appearing at the back of both of their heads. And with respect to the Z317 frame shown here of President Kennedy's head, I've heard many conspiracy theorists say that they think JFK's head has most certainly been artificially "blacked out" here.... Looks like one more conspiracy myth debunked by merely examining other parts of the same allegedly "altered" Zapruder home movie.

What's causing the same kind of "blackness" to appear on the back of Clint Hill's head in the very same Z-Film frame? Was Hill's head "blacked out" by the conspirators too?....

That's been blatantly obvious for days now.

Yes, I know that. I answered anyway. Is that against forum rules now?