David Von Pein

BTW, another thing that is happening with JBC in the above clip is that his head moves DOWNWARD just slightly at Z225. This can be "measured" (at least in part) by looking at Jackie and then comparing the level of Connally's head to Jackie's in Z225. JBC's head moves a little LOWER than Jackie's head behind him. This type of head movement (akin to a "ducking" motion) is also in perfect harmony with all of Connally's other movements at Z225 --- the flinching shoulders, the opening of his mouth, the startled look (which is not there on his face at Z224, at least as far as I can tell; but, I'll grant you, the frames aren't super clear, but they are clear enough to make these basic determinations, IMO). And I also detect Connally's eyes closing shut for one frame at Z225 too. Again, perfectly consistent with an involuntary flinch right after he was shot. So, we've got.... Flinching of the shoulders. Scrunching of the head downward. Mouth opening. Eyes closing. Lapel flipping. All in just Z224 and Z225 alone. Then, just one frame later, that hat flip---which James says is just a figment of my imagination too.... And yet, even with all of the above, according to CTers, Connally HASN'T been hit by a bullet yet. The bullet's going to hit him in another one second or so (probably even less than that). And his RIGHT WRIST is going to get smashed by that bullet---which, per CTers, HASN'T yet hit him as of Z226, even though the same RIGHT ARM/WRIST goes flying upward at 226. Go figure that. I sure can't. That's a lot of stuff for me to be fooled by, don't you think? It's a whole array of things in Z224-227 that James Gordon is filing in his folder labelled.... Things that appear to be happening to John B. Connally in the Z-Film, but aren't really happening at all. It's all due to either "corrupt" video frames, Mr. Zapruder's camera movement, and/or the simple fact that Governor Connally is merely turning to his left in his seat. Yeah, sure James. And I'm going to win TWO lotteries next week.

I haven't ignored your explanation, Jim. I've been laughing at it, because it's so amazingly wrong (and silly) in light of what is clearly visible in this film clip....

REPRISE.... JAMES R. GORDON SAID: These “jerky” and “startled” reactions that you talk about only occur between Z 226 and Z 228. And these are blurred frames. These reactions have nothing to do with John Connally, they are a consequence of Zapruder moving his camera... DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Once again, James is wrong on the frame numbers. The "jerky" reactions by Connally begin at Z225, not Z226. And here's yet another GIF showing the jerks and flinches of JBC (this clip ends at Z225)....

JAMES GORDON SAID: In post 44 you agreed that between Z 222 and Z 230 John Connally is indeed seen to be turning left. And this is critical to this whole story. Between Z 222 and Z 230 John Connally is turning left to face forward. The dispute here is that in making this turn you are interpreting moments in this turn as demonstrating evidence that John Connally has been wounded when in fact all that is happening is that John Connally is turning to his left. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Let me repeat my earlier question that I asked you a day or two ago.... "It couldn't be more obvious that Connally's shoulders are shrugging from a flinch starting at Z225, and yet I'm supposed to believe it only looks that way because JBC is turning to his left. Does EVERY "left turn" made by all limo occupants give the false appearance of "shoulder shrugging", James? Get real." JAMES GORDON SAID: Nor does John Connally’s hat begin to flip at Z 226 forwards. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: That's an astonishing statement, James, in light of the fact that I've already provided you with SIX different versions of the Z-Film (collected by me from various Internet sources, including the MPI "Image Of An Assassination" digital version), which ALL show the hat flip beginning at the exact same moment--Z226. Here once again is one of those six versions produced earlier, and this is a good quality version, which positively proves you are wrong regarding the hat flip. It's occurring at Z226, just like in all of my other versions. Deny it if you desire, but it's here just the same: JAMES GORDON SAID: These “jerky” and “startled” reactions that you talk about only occur between Z 226 and Z 228. And these are blurred frames. These reactions have nothing to do with John Connally, they are a consequence of Zapruder moving his camera... DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Incredible, Jim. Simply incredible. Your denial has reached a new zenith. It's not an easy task to totally dismiss so many VISUAL clues about John Connally's reactions that everybody can easily see right before their own eyes. But you have managed to accomplish it. My congratulations go out to you.

Let me try this approach.... 1.) James R. Gordon knows for a fact that John B. Connally was shot by a rifle bullet on 11/22/63 at a point in time which James also knows is very close in "real time" to Zapruder frames 224-230 (give or take a FRACTION OF A SECOND). 2.) Therefore, since #1 is so obviously true, there is probably a point in the Zapruder home movie that shows Connally's initial reaction(s) to being hit by the bullet that injured him. 3.) As I have illustrated about 99 times now, Zapruder frames 224 to 227 indicate some definite changes in Governor Connally's appearance that could very easily be said to be "involuntary startle reactions" to some kind of external stimulus. 4.) When factoring in #2 and #3, in tandem, what do you suppose the odds are that the movements by John Connally seen in Zapruder frames 224-227 are movements that have nothing whatsoever to do with the injuries sustained by John Connally at almost that exact same time (give or take a FRACTION OF A SECOND)? 5.) There are no frames in the Zapruder movie AFTER approx. Z230 in which any kind of "jerky" or "startle" type reactions can be seen with respect to Governor Connally's movements. With the above five things in mind, James, do you still want to stick with this conclusion?.... "It is these same extraordinary results that allow members like you to suggest that these very frames actually suggest that John Connally is reacting to being struck by a bullet when - in fact - he has not been struck." -- J. Gordon

I'm co-owner of a KFC restaurant in central Indiana. JFK-related segue (sort of).... "Did You Know?" .... that Colonel Sanders was the very first contestant on the first episode of the popular CBS-TV game show "What's My Line?" to be aired after President Kennedy's assassination (December 1, 1963).... DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/04/game-shows-with-colonel-sanders.html

Why not? What's bizarre about it? We know a bullet DID go through the right side of John Connally's coat at just about the same time as the lapel flip. And we know the wind was pretty gusty that day. So why would a theory incorporating both of those known FACTS be considered "bizarre" in any way at all? You can't possibly prove it was ONLY the wind that moved Connally's lapel. Just as I cannot possibly prove that it was a combination of "bullet + wind". But I have at least SOME evidence to back up my theory---a bullet hole in the right half of John Connally's jacket. It's not a hole in the LAPEL, that's true enough. But there IS a hole in the right side of the jacket, which is a jacket that likely MOVED at least a little bit when the bullet passed through it. Case totally NOT closed (on this point).

You seem to have figured that out already ----> educationforum.com/entry301967

And the Single-Bullet Theory sure as heck doesn't need "no stinking lapels" either, Ron. As I explain in detail at my SBT site.

I made my position clear on the "lapel flip" five years ago, Bob..... "Due to the apparent movement of that same part of Connally's jacket at a point which I believe was PRIOR to the bullet passing through JBC's body, I've revised my thinking on the "lapel flip" over the years. I now feel it's quite possible that a combination of the wind (which was gusty that day) and Oswald's CE399 bullet are causing the movement of Connally's lapel that we see in the Zapruder Film. .... In the final analysis, the "lapel flip" or "jacket bulge" is probably the LEAST compelling evidence on the Z-Film that proves the SBT is occurring at precisely Z224. There are multiple other indicators that show JBC is "reacting" to an external stimulus just after Z224." -- DVP; April 23, 2010 -------- And just two days ago, I said this to you.... "Bob, The wind probably caught ahold of the lapel after the bullet passed through Connally's jacket, causing it to flip up more dramatically. Is that not at least POSSIBLE, Robert?" -- DVP; 5/13/15 And, Bob, since you yourself have said that you think the wind caused ALL of the lapel flip, then my above explanation HAS to make sense even to an anti-SBT CTer like you.

Revised website link below (updated by DVP in order to archive the astounding amount of total denial exhibited by members of The Education Forum relating to the obvious signs of distress visible in Governor Connally's reactions when viewing Abraham Zapruder's motion picture film).....

Bob, does that mean you want to put a make-believe bullet and an imaginary wound in JBC's left shoulder?

No, I'm not gagged, Bob. But you might want to know that you SBT Deniers here at the Edu. Forum are out of the cellar as far as your anti-SBT crackpottery. You've been beaten out by somebody named Mike at the aaj newsgroup. Mike thinks that Connally's tie is moving around at Z225 because--get this--JBC was reacting to being hit by a super slow-speed bullet that exited JFK's neck and evidently glanced off of (or perhaps entered) JBC's LEFT SHOULDER (despite, of course, a complete lack of injury to John Connally's left shoulder). To continue the hilarity and hogwashery, go here ----> google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk

Pat, And yet, despite all that information being gathered by John Connally, he was still all wrong about the SBT. But Connally did say he thought the SBT was "possible" when asked about it by CBS News in 1967.... JOHN CONNALLY -- "The only way that I could ever reconcile my memory of what happened and what occurred, with respect to the One-Bullet Theory is .... it had to be the SECOND bullet that might have hit us both." EDDIE BARKER -- "Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?" JOHN CONNALLY -- "That's possible. That's possible." ~~~~~ So, unlike nearly all "Internet CTers", at least the Texas Governor was a reasonable critic of the single-bullet conclusion. dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2012/03/john-and-nellie-connally.html ~~~~~

He's not wrong about when he was injured, James. John Connally's testimony and his other comments in interviews are in perfect harmony with the SBT and the overall "Lone Assassin Fired Three Shots" scenario.... Connally ALWAYS said he was not hit by the first shot, but was hit by Shot #2. That's exactly what I think happened too. So I don't think JBC is "wrong" at all. He's 100% right. And he was in the process of turning to his left when he was hit by the SBT bullet at Z224. As for JBC's anti-SBT stance, that is something he HAD to have gotten mostly from his wife Nellie. We certainly know that JBC *himself* couldn't know if JFK was hit by the first bullet or the second bullet....because JBC always said he never physically SAW Kennedy after the shooting began.... "I never saw either one of them [JFK or Jackie] after the firing started." -- John B. Connally; 1964 WC Testimony Regarding Connally's "The President had slumped" remark in the bedside interview with Martin Agronsky.... jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/what-did-john-connally-see.html

Ah! The irony in the above comment by Bob is thick. (Think "Howard Brennan" to grasp the irony.)

Let's hear what Mr. Connally was saying about the Warren Commission on November 23, 1966.... "I'm satisfied beyond any doubt that there was only one [assassin]." -- John B. Connally; 11/23/66

Yes. Edited above.

This is really getting weird. How about "more than one shooter"? And those multiple shooters fired separate bullets into JFK's upper back and throat----with neither bullet exiting the other side of his body?? And then a third bullet struck John Connally at almost the exact same moment? And then all three bullets disappear?* Now THAT'S weird, Ron. * This assumes you believe CE399 touched no victim on Nov. 22. A fairly safe assumption on my part.

Why rely on Carrico at all? Just look at the autopsy photos. They show where the wound/trach is located---very LOW in the front of the neck.... And that throat wound is totally consistent with the back wound and with the SBT.... Well, Ray, what are you suggesting then? Are you saying that there were TWO bullets that caused the two slits in the shirt? Is that it? But if so, where's the second bullet hole in the throat? ~shrug~

Big deal, Ray. It's not like Carrico ran up to JFK's throat wound with a tape measure during those critical moments when the doctors were trying desperately to save the President's life.

Well, Jim, when you can't even get the frame numbers right, you (of course) will not be able to see the tie bulge for yourself. In Post 111, you seem to think the "tie bulge" is occurring between 223 and 224. Why on Earth did you suggest that? I never claimed any such thing. The tie is moving in the 224-225 clip. But I'm enjoying seeing all the CTers in "Full Fledged Denial" mode in this thread. I've seen the SBT denial bit being done before, of course, on many other forums. But this thread takes the cake. I have provided clip after clip showing exactly the same JBC reactions. And yet you still cling to the absurd notion that all of those clips are "corrupt" --- even the MPI version! Pathetic.

This is getting more hysterical with each passing hour. James provides further proof that he's lost in the woods. James now seems to think that I think Connally's tie is moving between 223 and 224. I never claimed any such thing. The tie isn't moving (or "bulging") between 223 and 224, and I have never said it was. The tie is bulging outward, without a doubt, between Z224 and Z225, just like I've been saying all along. Why James is moving the time period up to 223-224 is anyone's guess. ~shrug~ The way things are going now, it looks like it will only be a few days more before James Gordon will be denying the existence of John B. Connally in the car at all. And once again I want to point out to James my previous posts in this thread [Posts 104 and 105] which feature SIX different "versions" of the Z-Film and Z-Film GIF clips, which I collected over the years from multiple different sources. They are not from the exact same source that James thinks contains "corrupt" frames. And one of those six sources is the 1998 MPI digital version of the Z-Film. And surely James isn't going to say that MPI's version consists of "corrupt" frames. Are you, Jim? And in all six of those Zapruder Film examples that I provided, Governor Connally's reactions between Z224 and Z227 can be seen. Every single one. So Jim will have to call ALL SIX sources "corrupt" in order for Connally's tie NOT to be moving at Z224-Z225 and for Connally's shoulders NOT to be flinching at Z224-Z225 and for Connally's right arm NOT to be jerked skyward at Z225-Z226. Good luck with all that, Jim.

For Pete sake, Bob, I never implied that the BULLET directly was responsible for the tie movement. The tie is bulging outward at the exact same instant the shoulder shrugging/flinching is beginning---at Z225. When Connally flinched his shoulders, it affected his necktie too. The bullet didn't directly cause the tie to move--but Connally's flinching sure as heck did. And as I said previously, that tie bulge is perfectly consistent with the flinching and shoulder hiking we see in Z225. They are "in harmony" with each other. Don't tell me YOU can't see the tie moving in the various clips I provided earlier, Bob. You aren't going to deny that John Connally's tie IS moving around at Z225, are you? Take a look again....

Take a look at this very clear version of Z-Film frame 317....and notice the complete lack of an injury (or any blood even) at the BACK of President Kennedy's head. There's no wound in the rear of the head visible whatsoever.....