David Von Pein

Kenneth, CBS-TV (Dan Rather) was identifying the rifle as a "6.5 mm. Italian" gun at about 7:00 PM CST on Nov. 22, only about 6 hours after the assassination. What's so incredibly delayed about that? Dan Rather didn't say "Carcano", no. But do you now want to say that "6.5mm Italian gun" ISN'T the same as saying "6.5mm Italian Mannlicher-Carcano"? They are the SAME THING, Ken.

Good. Then we're in complete agreement that Weitzman "got fooled". Excellent. He thought the Carcano looked like a 7.65 Mauser. And even you agree that Weitzman was "fooled". So what do we have to argue about here? Looks like we're in complete agreement. You're closer to joining the LN ranks than you think, Bob. Nice job. Because from my experience with Internet CTers, you're in the vast minority of CTers who actually have had the guts to admit that Seymour Weitzman "got fooled". I don't think I've talked to one other Internet CTer in the last five years who thinks there WASN'T a Mauser found on the sixth floor (except maybe Pat Speer). Pat, do you think a Mauser was found? I can't remember your position on that. Anyway, thanks, Bob Prudhomme, for acknowledging the obvious -- "Weitzman got fooled".

So you seem to accept the fact that Oswald (using his "Hidell" alias) did order the rifle. But you can't envision a situation where Oswald could have merely gone to the post office, handed the clerk the slip he found in his P.O. Box, and then have the rifle package handed to him by the clerk?? That scenario is played out in hundreds or thousands of post offices all over the USA every day. Plus, let me ask this simple, common-sense question..... Why would somebody order something by mail-order and have it shipped to their post office box (whether it be a rifle or any other item) and then never go to the post office to pick up the merchandise? Why would anybody do that, Bill? You think a clerk should have instant recall regarding every package he/she gives out to every John Doe in Dallas---even after eight months have passed? Come on. ==================== RELATED CAT FIGHT.... JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID: Von Pein is the prime example of the Warren Commission Crazies or kamikazes. I mean, see there was never any evidence that Oswald ever picked up the handgun used to shoot Tippit at Railway Express. In fact, even more exculpatory, there was never any evidence that the FBI even went there. So how did the transaction happen? DAVID VON PEIN SAID: How about that for sterling logic and razor-sharp evaluation of the evidence against Oswald in the Tippit murder, folks? DiEugenio is much more concerned about the lack of a paper trail that would connect Lee Harvey Oswald to the Smith & Wesson revolver that killed Officer J.D. Tippit than he is about the PROVABLE FACT that Oswald had that very same gun ON HIM (as he was trying to shoot more policemen with it) when he was arrested inside the Texas Theater just a half-hour after Officer Tippit was gunned down. There are no words left for me to use to describe how utterly preposterous DiEugenio's thinking is regarding this matter concerning Oswald's revolver and the Railway Express. To DiEugenio, Oswald being caught red-handed with the murder weapon in his very own hands in the movie theater on 11/22/63 is of far less importance than being able to answer the following question --- When and where did Oswald first pick up the revolver after he purchased it by mail order in early 1963? More revolver chatter: jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/08/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-42.html

So, Bob P., you actually think Ron Reiland and Bob Clark examined the rifle THEMSELVES before reporting that an "Argentine" Mauser had been found in the Depository? Neither one of those men examined the rifle for themselves. They were merely repeating the incorrect information they received from another source (or sources). When the facts were finally confirmed via the DPD about what type of rifle it was (at approximately 6:16 PM CST on 11/22/63, as this CBS-TV footage proves), everyone then began reporting it correctly as an "Italian" rifle. The words "Mannlicher-Carcano" weren't heard until the afternoon of November 23rd, however. ============================= GARY MACK SAID [AT 12:16 PM EDT ON 5/25/2015, VIA E-MAIL]: Hi Dave, You are quite correct about Reiland and Clark regarding the "Argentine" weapon. One has to read the AP and UPI wire reports - and I certainly have - to know that they distributed the misinformation early that afternoon. No individuals were named as sources, but they certainly weren't Reiland and Clark who were, respectively, in a news car on the way to Oak Cliff and [at] Parkland when the Carcano was found in the TSBD. The only newsmen on the TSBD sixth floor when the rifle was found were Tom Alyea of WFAA and Kent Biffle of the Dallas Morning News. Weitzman identified the rifle as a Mauser while it was still on the floor and partially hidden by boxes. Later, when Lt. Day lifted it out for Capt. Fritz, Day found the rifle was an Italian weapon. Unfortunately, either Alyea or Biffle had already gotten word out to their newsroom and the misidentification went around the world only to be repeated by Reiland and Clark before corrections appeared. Such problems are quite normal in the news profession to this day but inaccurate information gets corrected as soon as possible. Gary DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Thank you, Gary. As always. DVP ============================= IN A RELATED DISCUSSION IN EARLY 2014, MICHAEL GIAMPAOLO SAID: I noticed Boone, at the mock trial, said he learned the rifle was a Carcano only after the FBI had their hands on it and said it was a Carcano. He did not know Lt. Day was parading the rifle in front of the press telling them it was an Italian rifle made in 1940 on the early evening of 11-22-63...I guess. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: As far as I know, Lt. J.C. Day of the DPD never uttered a word while parading around holding the rifle over his head at 6:15 PM on November 22. Day was never interviewed by the press. He merely carried the gun in silence. As I said in one of my forum posts recently, I don't think very many people at the DPD had an up-close look at the rifle at all on Day #1. Lt. Day, in fact, *might* have been the only person who had a really good look at it (and perhaps Captain Fritz too, who we can see via Tom Alyea's film was examining the gun up close in the TSBD). But it was Lt. Day who took possession of the gun inside the TSBD, and it was Day who carried it out of the building, and it was Day who then locked it up in a lock box at City Hall for a few hours while he went back to the Depository to take pictures. Lieutenant Day then went back to City Hall and started examining the rifle in greater detail. Then, close to midnight, he was told to stop working on the rifle and to turn it over to Vincent Drain of the FBI, which he did. Ergo, the initial incorrect "Mauser" reports coming from Dallas County Deputies Weitzman and Boone became the "facts" as far as many people (and reporters thirsty for details) were concerned. MICHAEL GIAMPAOLO SAID: I've seen a couple clips of the rifle traveling through the DPD, but never see the whole thing like I wish we did. When asked what kind of rifle it was, Day said, "6.5, apparently made in Italy 1940". I [saw] it aired, and heard him say it on a CNN show called "The Assassination of President Kennedy" on 11-21-13. I recorded it and just watched it again. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: I don't recall that clip with Lt. Day saying something to the press. I wonder if I have it in my video collection? I'm not sure, but I'm sure going to look for it. Thanks, Michael. And my apologies for saying that Lt. Day never spoke to the press in the DPD corridors. I guess you just proved me wrong in that regard. Thank you. MICHAEL GIAMPAOLO SAID: Why that is not included in the clips of this historic event, I do not understand. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Perhaps it is buried in my collection someplace. I don't know. But thanks for the info nonetheless. PAT SPEER SAID: I watched the CNN program he [Michael G.] mentions, and can verify that the quote of Day is accurate. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Thanks, Pat. I just did a little digging into my video archives and verified for myself that at least one TV network (CBS) was most definitely identifying the assassination weapon as a 6.5-millimeter Italian rifle as of approximately 7:00 PM (Dallas time) on Friday, November 22nd. In the video clip below, which was aired live on CBS-TV on the evening of 11/22/63, Dan Rather of CBS News clearly calls the rifle being held up by Lt. J.C. Day an "Italian 6.5-millimeter" gun. We can't hear Lt. Day say anything; we only hear Rather's narration in this clip, but it is clear from the video that Lt. Day definitely is speaking to the members of the press at the crowded City Hall. He's probably identifying the rifle in just the manner confirmed by Michael Giampaolo and Pat Speer: http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-591.html#An-Italian-Gun So the conspiracy theorists who continue to say that everybody on radio or television was labelling the murder weapon as a Mauser all the way through Day 1 (November 22nd) are proven wrong (just as I was proven wrong on this issue too) by the above video alone. And if CBS was reporting that the assassination weapon was a 6.5mm. Italian rifle during the evening of November 22nd, you can bet that most of the other TV and radio networks were reporting the very same thing at that same time as well. Thanks again to Michael and Pat. Your confirmation of Lt. Day's statements in the 2013 CNN program prompted me to dig further myself. And the digging paid off. Much obliged. GARY MACK SAID: David, The original KRLD-TV video tape of Day holding the rifle is in The Sixth Floor Museum's permanent collection and it has been licensed to many documentaries over the years. The audio track includes Day's first words which were, "There's no name on it." From there, going by memory, he says, "6.5mm, made in Italy, 1940." As Day said in his museum's oral history, he was taking the rifle back to his office and held it overhead so reporters couldn't touch it. As the clock shows, the scene happened at 6:16pm on Friday and both AP and UPI wire services soon fed his words around the world. Boone and Weitzman, who both worked for the Sheriff's Department, never saw the rifle again after they or it left the TSBD. One of the two reporters present, either Tom Alyea/WFAA-TV or Kent Biffle/Dallas Morning News, presumably reported the ID information to their offices, so that must be how the Mauser story started. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Thanks, Gary. GARY MACK SAID: By the way, the video of Day was not shown live; the scene was recorded at KRLD and fed to CBS soon thereafter for Rather to narrate on the network. Gary DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Yes, I know. It's obvious that Dan Rather isn't narrating a LIVE scene taking place at Dallas City Hall. That's why I phrased a portion of my forum post in this manner (knowing full well that the clock on the wall behind Lieutenant Day was showing a time of 6:16): "CBS was most definitely identifying the assassination weapon as a 6.5-millimeter Italian rifle as of approximately 7:00 PM (Dallas time) on Friday, November 22nd." Thanks. DVP January 2014

Yeah, right. Reiland and Clark got some inaccurate info from either the newswires or from some other source, and that suddenly makes them world-class rifle experts, right? Too funny.

Larry Hancock, Thank you for your last post.

Kenneth, The number of already-debunked conspiracy myths and inaccuracies in your last post is staggering. You totally disregard OSWALD'S handwriting on all of the various documents relating to the rifle purchase order. You totally dismiss and/or disregard the two large bullet fragments (CE567 & 569) that were found in the front seat of the limo. And those fragments came from Rifle C2766 and no other gun (and that's the same gun with OSWALD'S prints on it and the same gun Klein's mailed to OSWALD'S post office box). I wonder how bullet fragments from the gun shipped to LHO's P.O. Box by Klein's managed to find their way into JFK's car? Any ideas on that? You totally disregard OSWALD'S prints being on the C2766 rifle itself (the palmprint and the two fingerprints on the trigger guard; the latter were said to be OSWALD'S prints by Vincent Scalice in 1993). You totally cast aside the fact that OSWALD had at least one card in his wallet on Nov. 22 bearing the name "Hidell" (with OSWALD'S picture on it, to boot). And yet you claim there's no evidence at all that Oswald used the name Hidell. Was this Selective Service card planted on him? You totally ignore Vol. 6 of the HSCA re: the backyard photos, in which it is said that the gun Oswald is holding in the pictures is the C2766 rifle. In short, you are dead wrong about----everything. A perfect .000 batting average. Not even a foul tip. Congratulations.

Can you point me to any of this "demonstrable evidence" of conspiracy?

Brian, No, I have not read Larry Hancock's books. In fact, I haven't read very many conspiracy books at all. But that doesn't mean I don't know what many of their arguments and theories are. I've been exposed to a whole lot of the "CT theories" on the Internet. Just about all of them, in fact. And I've discussed many different theories with various CTers in the last several years online. And I think many of those discussions go beyond merely the "safe" topics you alluded to previously.... assorted-jfk-assassination-arguments.blogspot.com jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-complete-series.html jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/07/david-von-pein-vs-david-lifton.html But just for curiosity sake, Brian, what specific sub-topic in Mr. Hancock's books did you have in mind in your last post?

Robert, Why are you trying to jam the word "Argentine" into Kenneth Drew's mouth and posts? Kenneth never said anything about his TWO make-believe "Mausers" specifically being "Argentine" Mausers. He just said Mauser, period. And in most of the early Nov. 22 reports on TV and radio, the commentators are calling the TSBD rifle a "German Mauser". (Except for a couple of references made by Ron Reiland and Bob Clark, who call it an "Argentine Mauser" at one point.) It's true that one of the Dallas deputies who first saw the gun on the sixth floor on Nov. 22, Seymour Weitzman, said in his affidavit on Nov. 23 that the rifle was a "7.65 Mauser"..... Seymour-Weitzman-Affidavit But Weitzman, of course, was incorrect about the type of gun it was, and he later said he was mistaken, as everyone can hear him say for themselves in the 1967 video I presented earlier, which includes a statement by Weitzman that a large number of conspiracy theorists have completely ignored. And the CTers who haven't ignored it usually say that Weitzman was lying in that 1967 interview with CBS. The CTers can see the shiftiness in Weitzman's eyes. But the things a CTer can "see" don't usually have any relation to reality at all. More Mauser Talk (And Roger Craig Talk Too): jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/09/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-803.html

Earth to Kenneth!..... In my above audio clip, Alyea was speaking in 1993, yes. But he was talking about the things that happened in 1963, not 1993. (Is it even possible that it was actually necessary for me to type out that last sentence? I guess so, because Ken is here. Incredible.) And the DCA film shows a shotgun, not a Mauser rifle. It's no doubt a shotgun owned by the DPD. And Weitzman has repeatedly said his initial IDing of the rifle as a Mauser was an "honest mistake". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G04azA5NFoo

1993 audio clip with Tom Alyea (the man who filmed the video I posted earlier)..... http://box.com/Alyea Clip "There was no rifle on the roof. We looked everywhere." -- Tom Alyea; Nov. 20, 1993 More interviews: Journalists Remember The JFK Assassination

Great. Now we've got TWO make-believe "Mausers" (plural) being found in the Depository. I guess the plotters were trying to frame that schnook Oswald by planting two rifles in the building. Did they figure Lee would be holding a gun in each hand simultaneously as he shot Kennedy? And yet your goofy patsy-framers arranged so that TWO Mausers would be left inside the Depository, eh? Brilliant work! It might be nice if you stopped making things up, Ken. FYI, here's the film showing the rifle in the TSBD. It's a Carcano. Not a Mauser.... jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/01/alyea-film.html

But a lot more than just Waldman 7 would need to be fabricated in order for the CTers to be correct in this matter. There needs to be a fake mail-order coupon to Klein's (with "fake" Oswald handprinting on it). There also needs to be a fake money order (with "fake" Oswald writing all over it). And another part of CE773 (the envelope) needs to be fake too, because that envelope has Oswald's writing all over it too.... jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-postmark-on-commission-exhibit-773.html And then we'd have to have the Vice President of Klein's Sporting Goods, William J. Waldman, lying through his teeth in his WC testimony.... From 7 H 366... DAVID BELIN -- "Now, I'm going to hand you what has been marked as Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 7 and ask you to state if you know what this is." WILLIAM WALDMAN -- "This is a copy made from our microfilm reader-printer of an order received by Klein's from a Mr. A. Hidell, Post Office Box No. 2915, in Dallas, Texas. I want to clarify that this is not the order, itself, received from Mr. Hidell, but it's a form created by us internally from an order received from Mr. Hidell on a small coupon taken from an advertisement of ours in a magazine." ======================== Please tell me, Jon Tidd, with Bill Waldman's testimony staring me in the face, why should I even begin to believe that Waldman Exhibit No. 7 might have been "fabricated"? You really think William Waldman of Klein's was part of a plot to frame Oswald? Really?? Or do you think the FBI (or some other nefarious plotter/conspirator) somehow managed to plant the document known as Waldman 7 into the Klein's files prior to 4:30 AM on November 23, 1963? If either of those above things did NOT happen, then the rifle order shown in Waldman 7 is legitimate. Jon, your earlier observation is a very good (and accurate) one. You said: "Either Marina's husband ordered the alleged murder weapon or someone went to lengths to make it appear he did." Now, with those two options in mind, in conjunction with all of the things that I've been talking about in my posts in this thread (including the testimony of the Klein's Vice President)....which of those two options should a reasonable person embrace as the likely truth? In my opinion, it's not a very difficult choice. In fact, it's not even close. Marina's husband purchased the rifle from Klein's. ~~Mark VII~~ ------------------ MORE RIFLE WRANGLING: jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/04/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-935.html ------------------

And I say you are wrong and that absolutely not a SHRED of a doubt exists regarding Oswald's rifle purchase. You, Jon, are thumbing your nose at all of the corroborative items I mentioned earlier. The evidence shows that Lee Oswald definitely DID order a rifle from Klein's, with Klein's then shipping Rifle C2766 to Oswald ("Hidell") on 3/20/63. That fact is proven in Waldman Exhibit 7. And that document was dug out of the Klein's files in Chicago on the morning of 11/23/63. So if the FBI (or whoever) was framing Oswald with a "fake" Waldman #7, they sure did take action in a hurry to start framing the sap named Lee. Also.... Before someone brings this up, I'll pre-empt the defense's (CTers') argument about the missing bank stamps on the back of the $21.45 money order that Oswald mailed to Klein's..... That "No Stamps" argument, it seems to me, is a weak one. Why? Because we know (and can prove via Waldman 7 AND William Waldman's testimony) that Klein's in Chicago positively DID have that $21.45 money order in their hands on March 13, 1963 (the date stamped at the top of Waldman 7) because of the mere EXISTENCE of that document--Waldman Exhibit No. 7.... The above document provides the proof that two things occurred: 1.) Klein's received an order for a rifle from a certain "A. Hidell" in March of '63. 2.) In connection with the order from "A. Hidell" mentioned in #1, Klein's received PAYMENT VIA MONEY ORDER in the amount of $21.45 (the exact same amount that would be needed for a Klein's customer to purchase the Italian carbine with the scope via the Klein's magazine ads). Number 2 above is confirmed on Waldman 7 via the written-in amount "$21.45" and the initials "M.O." that appear in the box marked "Total Amount Enclosed". Larger view of Waldman Exhibit 7: http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0364a.htm So we KNOW from Waldman 7 that Klein's did receive a mail-order coupon and a money order in the amount of 21 dollars and 45 cents from Oswald/Hidell and we know that Klein's acted upon receiving that order form by generating Waldman #7 and then mailing a rifle with the serial number C2766 on it to P.O. Box 2915 in Dallas (Oswald's box, of course) seven days later on March 20th. So, in order for the "No Bank Stamps = The Money Order Is A Fake" argument to be an accurate one, we'd have to completely ignore the two relevant facts above. So I'd say to CTers --- Go gripe to First National Bank in Chicago about the lack of stamps on the money order. But don't blame Klein's. Because Klein's DID stamp the back of that money order. It's clearly stamped with a Klein's stamp -- "Pay to the order of The First National Bank of Chicago". And: That money order has Lee Oswald's writing all over it. It's the HANDWRITING OF THE SO-CALLED "PATSY". That fact was determined by more than one handwriting expert. So we know that Oswald had possession of that money order AND Klein's had possession of that money order. And even with the "No Stamps On The Back" argument that CTers love so much, I don't see how those conspiracists can UNDO those two basic facts about both Klein's and Oswald being in possession of the money order at some point in time. Plus, as I also mentioned, there's William Waldman's Warren Commission testimony on this matter. Waldman confirmed that Waldman No. 7 was found amongst the Klein's files in Chicago and confirmed what all the various numbers and codes mean on Waldman No. 7. So, am I supposed to believe that Bill Waldman was just flat-out LYING to the WC when he testified about these matters? Why would I believe that? Why SHOULD I believe such a thing? I don't think any conspiracy believer can give me a good enough reason to totally dismiss and toss in the gutter all of the CORROBORATIVE things I just talked about above, which are things that indicate, when added together, the undeniable fact that Lee Harvey Oswald purchased (and was shipped) Mannlicher-Carcano C2766 from Klein's Sporting Goods in 1963. To answer the concerns that David Josephs loves to bring up every time this "Rifle Order" topic comes up...... IN A RELATED DISCUSSION CONCERNING LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S RIFLE PURCHASE, DAVID JOSEPHS SAID: An open letter to Gary Mack and DVP: Are you going to now try and say that the HIDELL ORDER was the only one in which a rifle serial # and VC # were written? That Klein's would not keep track of who bought what, when and where? As they did on the HIDELL ORDER? Are you claiming that you've NEVER SEEN ANOTHER KLEIN'S order…EVER? ============================== DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Why on Earth would the FBI care about other orders in the Klein's files other than the paperwork connected with the purchase of one particular rifle with the serial number C2766 on it (which was purchased by Oswald, of course)? That's the only gun purchase the FBI was looking for -- the one with C2766 attached to it. And that's because they knew that the JFK murder weapon was a gun with "C2766" on it. Any other Klein's order was useless and immaterial to the FBI's investigation. Isn't this obvious? You, David Josephs, are merely concentrating on all the wrong things (again), in order to make Oswald blameless. Of course there were many other order forms in the Klein's files that looked similar to Waldman #7. But none of those other orders had the serial number "C2766" written on them, and therefore none of those many other Klein's orders had any bearing whatsoever on the JFK murder case. So why in the world would those other forms for non-Oswald gun purchases be propped up in any FBI report, or the Warren Report, or anyplace else (outside a forum like this one, which is filled with people who look for excuses 24/7 to exonerate a guilty double-murderer)? DVP August 6, 2012

Oh, of course it did. How stupid of me not to realize that fact. BTW, before today (May 22, 2015), have you ever heard even ONE conspiracy theorist ever ONCE say anything about the "paint job" on JFK's head starting "way before Z313"? I sure as heck never did. You CTers are winging it on the fly -- a la Ralph Cinque, who is probably the world's leader when it comes to "Wingin' It". He thinks the V-neck T-shirt wasn't invented until after 1963 and he thinks Billy Lovelady's image has been artificially added to just about every film since Gone With The Wind. All that hilarity (and so much more) is right here -----> jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/10/doorway-man-part-2

Video relating to Oswald's 1963 rifle purchase:

DEBUNKING THE "OSWALD NEVER ORDERED THE RIFLE" MYTH.... ====================== Here's a real doozy of a conspiracy myth: Lee Harvey Oswald never ordered any rifle at all from Klein's Sporting Goods in March of 1963. Now, given the overwhelming evidence in this case that proves Lee Oswald definitely did order the rifle that ultimately ended up being the weapon that killed John F. Kennedy, the above theory/myth is totally preposterous and should be downright embarrassing to any conspiracy theorist who suggests such a thing. And it's certainly not a new allegation either. In one of the first books ever written on the JFK assassination in 1966, "Rush To Judgment", lawyer and first-generation Warren Commission critic Mark Lane strongly suggested that there could have been something sinister going on with respect to the rifle and the way it was ordered through the mail. Lane also seemed to suggest the possibility that Oswald and A.J. Hidell (Oswald's alias) just might have been two different persons, which is an utterly implausible notion. Here's what Lane said in his book: "It is of course possible that Oswald or Hidell or someone else ordered a rifle from the February issue of The American Rifleman and that Klein's sent a different but similar weapon by mistake. Without a suitable explanation, however, the chain of evidence relating Oswald, or Hidell, to the weapon appears damaged. The Commission failed to explore this possibility and thereby closed its mind to an important aspect of the investigation." -- Page 138 of "Rush To Judgment" But, in reality, the "chain of evidence relating Oswald to the weapon" is not "damaged" at all, because the trail of evidence that tells any reasonable person that Mannlicher-Carcano rifle #C2766 (Commission Exhibit 139) was ordered, paid for, and possessed by Lee Harvey Oswald (aka "A. Hidell") is so extensive and complete and ironclad that it would take a person who has his head completely buried in conspiracy sand to believe that Oswald did not receive that exact rifle in the mail in late March 1963. THE RIFLE FACTS: 1.) It has been proven, beyond all reasonable doubt, that Lee Harvey Oswald did, in fact, order a mail-order rifle from Klein's Sporting Goods Company in Chicago in March of 1963. The handwriting on all of the documents connected with the Klein's transaction is that of Oswald's, which proves beyond all doubt that it was Oswald (and no other person) who ordered and paid for Carcano rifle #C2766 that was shipped to Oswald/Hidell by Klein's in March 1963 [Warren Report, p.118-122]. (But, of course, many conspiracy buffs no longer think any handwriting analysis is worth a hill of beans. Which would mean that all of the various handwriting experts who testified over the years that it was positively Oswald's writing on the multiple documents associated with the rifle purchase must have all been dead wrong--or they all simply lied.) 2.) Regardless of the fact that Oswald technically did order a 36-inch Italian carbine, per the words written in the February 1963 American Rifleman magazine ad that Oswald used to order the rifle (pictured below), Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago shipped a 40-inch rifle with serial number C2766 on it to "A. Hidell" on March 20, 1963. The internal paperwork generated by Klein's at the time in March of 1963 (see Waldman Exhibit No. 7 and the Warren Commission testimony of William J. Waldman, beginning at 7 H 360) confirms that Oswald/"Hidell" was shipped an Italian 6.5mm rifle with that exact serial number on it ("C2766"). The likely explanation for why Oswald received a 40-inch rifle instead of the 36-inch model that he ordered via the Klein's mail-order coupon is pretty simple and logical, and it is this: Klein's very likely ran out of the 36-inch model shortly before receiving Oswald's order, and hence shipped a very similar (but slightly lengthier) gun instead. In August 2010, Gary Mack of the Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza provided this writer with some detailed information concerning the advertisements that Klein's was running in American Rifleman magazine throughout the calendar year of 1963. Mr. Mack's research revealed the fact that the February '63 Klein's ad was very likely the last time during the year 1963 that Klein's advertised the 36-inch Italian carbine. All other ads for that year that Mack was able to find indicate that the 40-inch rifle was being advertised. Here's the breakdown of the Klein's ads for that year in American Rifleman magazine: Jan 63 -- p. 61 -- 36-inch 6.5 Italian Carbine -- $12.88 -- $19.95 (with scope) Feb 63 -- p. 65 -- Same ad as above Mar 63 -- No ad Apr 63 -- p. 55 -- 40-inch 6.5 Italian Carbine -- $12.88 -- $19.95 (with scope) May 63 -- Missing pp. 63-66 Jun 63 -- p. 59 -- 40-inch 6.5 Italian Carbine -- $12.88 -- $19.95 (with scope) Jul 63 -- p. 67 -- 40-inch 6.5 Italian Carbine -- $12.78 -- $19.95 (with scope) Aug 63 -- p. 79 -- Same ad as above Sep 63 -- p. 89 -- Same ad as above Oct 63 -- p. 85 -- Same ad as above Nov 63 -- No ad Dec 63 -- No ad [source: E-mail to David Von Pein from Gary Mack, August 18, 2010.] In that same e-mail, Gary Mack went on to say this: "Oswald ordered the 36-inch rifle but, probably due to Klein's running out of stock, he received the 40-inch model instead. The price remained the same, so Klein's may have just sent him the newly available model instead. They would certainly accept a return if he didn't want it. The [sixth Floor] Museum's copy of the May 1963 issue is missing four pages and, since Klein's ads normally ran in the back half of the magazine, it was likely on one of those pages. But as you can see, the ad for the months before and after May showed the exact same 40-inch rifle. I don't know when the American Rifleman normally went to press, but I would think they'd want the new issue to appear on the newsstands and in subscribers' mailboxes at or shortly before the beginning of each month. That would mean all ad copy must be ready and in the hands of the publisher at least 30 days ahead of time, maybe more. If Klein's ran out of 36-inch rifles in January, they might not even have enough time to get a corrected ad in by the March deadline. Maybe that's why there was no ad in the March issue. Perhaps Klein's sold out of the Carcano and other weapons and just couldn't update their new ad before the deadline." 3.) A palmprint belonging to that of Lee Harvey Oswald was discovered on a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle with the serial number C2766 on it after the gun was found on the sixth floor of the Book Depository on November 22, 1963. Conspiracy theorists can gripe and moan about how this palmprint of Oswald's never really existed at all, but we're still left with the official record in this case, and that record shows us that a palmprint of Oswald's was, in fact, lifted off of rifle C2766 by Dallas Police Lieutenant J.C. Day on 11/22/63, shortly before the weapon was turned over to the FBI late that night [see 4 H 261 and 4 H 24 and this 11/23/63 FBI memo]. 4.) In the early 1990s, fingerprint expert Vincent Scalice, by utilizing different methods of fingerprint photo comparison, was able to find well over a dozen points of identity linking the previously unidentified fingerprints on the trigger housing of the C2766 Carcano rifle to Lee Harvey Oswald's comparison prints. [see Part 3 of the 1993 PBS-TV documentary, "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?"] To any reasonable person who evaluates this evidence concerning the fingerprints found near the rifle's trigger, this shows that it's very likely that the last person who touched rifle C2766 prior to its being found on the sixth floor of the Book Depository was Lee Harvey Oswald. 5.) Just days after Klein's shipped rifle C2766 to Oswald/Hidell, Lee Oswald asked his wife, Marina, to take some pictures of him in the backyard of their small Neely Street apartment in Dallas [1 H 15-16]. As near as can be determined, those backyard pictures were taken by Marina Oswald on March 31, 1963. Klein's shipped the rifle to Oswald/Hidell on March 20th. So the timing is just about perfect in that regard. In other words, there was time for the rifle to reach Oswald's Dallas post office box in that 11-day interim. 6.) Photographic experts for the House Select Committee on Assassinations determined that the rifle that Oswald is holding in the backyard photos is "the same weapon" [6 HSCA 66] that was found by police on the sixth floor of the Book Depository on November 22, 1963. The HSCA determined, therefore, that the rifle being held by Lee Harvey Oswald in the backyard photographs was, in fact, the very same rifle that was determined to be the weapon used to assassinate John F. Kennedy: "A comparison of identifying marks that exist on the rifle as shown in photographs today with marks shown on the rifle in photographs taken in 1963 indicates both that the rifle in the Archives is the same weapon that Oswald is shown holding in the backyard picture and the same weapon, found by Dallas police, that appears in various postassassination photographs." [6 HSCA 66] Now, given all of the above evidence (plus adding in just a small amount of common sense to go with it), can any reasonable person really come to a conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald did not own and possess Mannlicher-Carcano rifle #C2766 in the year 1963? I'll answer that last question myself -- No, they cannot. Author Vincent Bugliosi made an excellent observation about some conspiracy theorists when he said this in his book "Reclaiming History", which is a quote that fits in nicely when discussing the topic of Oswald's rifle purchase: "The conspiracy community regularly seizes on one slip of the tongue, misunderstanding, or slight discrepancy to defeat twenty pieces of solid evidence; ...treats rumors, even questions, as the equivalent of proof; leaps from the most minuscule of discoveries to the grandest of conclusions; and insists that the failure to explain everything perfectly negates all that is explained." -------------- For additional discussions concerning Oswald's rifle purchase and the controversy surrounding the documents related to that gun purchase, check out the Internet weblinks located HERE and HERE. And also see pages 62-69 of "Beyond Reasonable Doubt: The Warren Report And Lee Harvey Oswald's Guilt And Motive 50 Years On". David Von Pein August 2010 February 2013 December 2014

And, of course, we can also go back earlier in the Z-Film and find many more frames which show the "blackness" on the back of JFK's head BEFORE he was even shot in the head. Here's just one example below--frame 275. And what about Roy Kellerman too? His head looks pretty black here as well. Does that mean Kellerman's head has been "blacked out" by film-fakers in Z275?....

Fabulous. It's now getting harder to keep up with the revised "new" theory that conspiracy theorists will now have to embrace in order to keep their "Blacked Out Head" theory alive and well. Here's the latest revision.... "JFK's and Clint Hill's and Nellie Connally's heads (and maybe a lot more heads too that nobody has even noticed yet) have been artificially blacked out in all post-Z313 frames of the Zapruder Film. Plus, JFK's head has also been artificially blacked out in frame 312, which is one-eighteenth of a second BEFORE he was even hit in the head by any bullet."

Thanks, Robin. The comments I made in Post 40 can now be revised as follows.... "So, from now on, whenever Ron Ecker and all other conspiracy theorists talk about this topic, the "New and Revised" theory has got to be this.... JFK's and Clint Hill's and Nellie Connally's heads (and maybe a lot more heads too that nobody has even noticed yet) have been artificially blacked out in all post-Z313 frames of the Zapruder Film. So, as we can see here, a dumb theory can easily snowball out of control." -- DVP; 5/21/2015

The back wound IS where it IS, Cliff. And there's nothing on this green Earth that either you or I can do to change the location of the ONE AND ONLY BULLET HOLE in John Fitzgerald Kennedy's upper back. It's right here in the autopsy picture below---for all to see 24/7. But, for some reason, you think it's much more reasonable to rely on the holes in the movable clothing of JFK to pinpoint the exact spot of the bullet's entry. Go figure. ~big shrug~ ....

The clothes! The clothes! ALWAYS the clothes! NOTHING else matters! Only the garments!

It's always all about the clothes, isn't it Cliff? The case lives or dies by the jacket and the shirt, right? Even though you know that the jacket and the shirt are MOVABLE OBJECTS on the body of John F. Kennedy.

Oh, really? "PROVEN AS FAKE", eh? Please tell me HOW the BY pics were "proven" to be fake, Ken. Of course, Kenneth Drew will do what most CTers do---he'll just totally ignore the following determinations reached by the HSCA.... "A comparison of the relative lengths of parts of the alleged assassination rifle that is in the National Archives with corresponding parts of what purports to be that rifle as shown in various photographs taken in 1963 indicates that the dimensions of the rifle(s) depicted are entirely consistent. .... A comparison of identifying marks that exist on the rifle as shown in photographs today with marks shown on the rifle in photographs taken in 1963 indicates both that the rifle in the Archives is the same weapon that Oswald is shown holding in the backyard picture and the same weapon, found by Dallas police, that appears in various postassassination photographs." -- 6 HSCA 66 "The panel detects no evidence of fakery in any of the backyard picture materials." -- 6 HSCA 146 And would that include the J.D. Tippit murder as well, Ken? (Even though your favorite patsy named Oswald was caught red-handed with the Tippit murder weapon in his very own hands just 35 minutes after Tippit was murdered?) jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/hilarious-defense-of-oswald.html jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#JD-Tippit