What? No Obama birth certificate threads?

[Craig Lamson]

Dave Emery on Urban Legends and Obama's Birth Certificate:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackoba...certificate.htm

It began with the June 2008 release of a scan of Obama's state-issued Certification of Live Birth to quell rumors suggesting that his religious affiliation and country of origin might be other than what he claimed. Partisan scuttlebutt speculated that Obama's middle name was really "Mohammed," for example — which would lend support to rumblings that he had grown up a Muslim — and that he was actually born in Kenya, not the United States — which of course would mean he's not a natural-born citizen and therefore ineligible for the presidency.

The document refuted both of those claims, yet somehow only managed to ignite further controversy.

First, it was labeled a forgery. Anonymous "experts" claimed they were able to detect anomalies in the scanned image that proved it couldn't possibly be authentic.

When that failed to fly, the document was assailed for being a "short-form" computer print-out as opposed to an original, hospital-issued birth record. A cry went up for the release of Obama's "real" birth certificate, which conspiracy theorists said was being "suppressed" by the state of Hawaii because of the potentially explosive information it could contain.

Six months into his presidency and fully a year after the Certification of Live Birth was first posted online, a small but increasingly vocal minority was still demanding to know why President Obama "refused" to show his birth certificate.

The proper response, of course, is that he had already done so. The document released in 2008 is a valid Hawaii birth certificate, vetted by multiple sources, proving that Barack Hussein Obama was born on U.S. soil on August 4, 1961.

Let's examine the allegations to the contrary.

CLAIM: The scanned Certification of Live Birth released by Obama is a forgery.

EXAMPLE: Personal message from a reader dated Dec. 10, 2008:

I am part of a citizen action group against LIES, BIAS and DISCRIMINATION in the media reporting, We will be taking part in lawsuits against biased media or those who fail to report the truth and evidence on matters involving the FACT that Obama is NOT eligible for office based on the FACTS that he FORGED his birth record and was NOT born the the United States!

STATUS: FALSE. "It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," said Hawaii Department of Health spokesperson Janice Okubo when queried by the St. Petersburg Times' PolitiFact.com website in June 2008. The actual physical document was scrutinized a month later by researchers at FactCheck.org (see hi-res images), who determined it had been duly signed, sealed, and certified by the state registrar, and "meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship."

CLAIM: As distinguished from a "long-form" Certificate of Live Birth, the "short-form" Certification of Live Birth issued by Hawaii and released by the Obama campaign isn't a "real" or "valid" birth certificate.

EXAMPLE: Personal message from a reader dated Oct. 28, 2008:

[T]he Obama campaign did finally present a document which they claimed validated his eligibility (per the Constitution of the Unted States, Article II, Section I) as a "Natural born citizen" to have his name on the ballot in contention for the office of the President of the United States of America. However, contrary to what the few media outlets who are giving this outrageous claim any attention at all have concurred, what the Obama campaign supplied was not, in fact, a "birth certificate". What they supplied was actually a "Certificate of Live Birth." There is a major difference between a "birth certificate" and a "Certificate of Live Birth." Aside from the level of detail differentiating the documents (hospital of record, doctor, height, weight, etc) - in the state of Hawaii, one authenticates natural born citizenship, and the other doesn't.

STATUS: FALSE. According to a June 6, 2009 article in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, the computer-generated Certification of Live Birth is the only kind of birth record currently issued by the state (original birth records are now stored electronically), so the distinction between "long-form" and "short-form" is moot. When a Hawaiian citizen requests a certified copy of his or her birth certificate from the state, a Certification of Live Birth is what they get. It contains "all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate," says Health Department spokesperson Janice Okubo.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2009/08/03...certificate.htm

CLAIM: Since Hawaii law allows residents to obtain birth certificates for children born outside the state, the released document still doesn't prove that Obama couldn't have been born in, say, Kenya.

EXAMPLE: Forwarded email received Dec. 2, 2008:

Right Side News on Sunday so graciously pointed out that "Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17.8 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the childs birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence. The parents would be issued a Certification of Live Birth. This is not proof of where the child was born. It only proves that the parents claimed Hawaii as their main place of residence for the prior year."

STATUS: FALSE. The Certification of Live Birth explicitly states that he was born in Honolulu; if he had been born elsewhere, the document would say so.

Janice Okubo explains: "If you were born in Bali, for example, you could get a certificate from the state of Hawaii saying you were born in Bali. You could not get a certificate saying you were born in Honolulu. The state has to verify a fact like that for it to appear on the certificate."

Moreover, the Hawaii Department of Health has verified and publicly confirmed that the original birth records on file do, in fact, specify that Obama was born in Hawaii:

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen," wrote the head of the Health Department in a statement released July 27, 2009.

Unless one is willing to accuse Dr. Fukino and other state officials of lying, that puts the matter to rest.

Oh, and one more thing. Given all of the above, birth announcements printed in both the Honolulu Advertiser and Honolulu Star-Bulletin in August 1961 eliminate all doubt as to where Barack Obama was really born (hint: neither of those papers is published in Kenya).

Update: 'Birther' Wackiness Continues with Release of Obama's 'Kenyan Birth Certificate'

'Birther' Wackiness Continues with Release of Obama's 'Kenyan Birth Certificate'

One of the myriad alternative-reality scenarios promulgated by "birthers" — the folks who maintain that Barack Obama's presidency is illegitmate because, supposedly, he has never released a valid birth certificate or proven he's a natural-born citizen — is that he was actually born in Kenya.

The first and only "evidence" proffered to support that theory surfaced just yesterday in the form of a document allegedly proving that Obama was, in fact, born at Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya in 1961.

Albeit hailed by conspiracy theorists as the "smoking gun" in the war on Obama's claim to legitimacy, it only took about a nanosecond for reality-based debunkers to prove the "Kenyan birth certificate" a fake, however. Among the tell-tale signs is an entry stating that the document was issued by the Republic of Kenya on February 17, 1964 — 10 months before the Dominion of Kenya became a republic (for further analysis see Below the Beltway and Washington Independent).

The debacle shines a light on two fatal flaws of the birther movement: one, their blatantly inconsistent and prejudicial standards of evidence — i.e., they're perfectly willing to accept (and circulate) unsourced photographs of an unvetted document as "proof" of foreign birth, while dismissing out of hand a state-issued, state-validated U.S. birth certificate; and two, what the foregoing reveals about their true motives — i.e, despite their protestations, they have no interest whatsoever in truth, accuracy, or "protecting" the U.S. Constitution, but are bent, rather, on delegitimizing Obama's presidency at any cost and by any means possible.

Read more:

• Birthers Proven Right: Obama's Kenyan Birth Certificate Found

• Is This Really the Smoking Gun of Obama's Kenyan Birth?

• Birthers Release Forged Kenyan Birth Certificate for Obama

• The Latest Birther Fantasy: Obama's (Fake) Kenyan Birth Certificate

Obama's Fake Kenyan birthcertificate from Australia?:

http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=95000

By DAVID WEIGEL 8/3/09 7:34 PM

[update: Credit where it's due—my source tipped me off to this in the Politijab web forums, which have become a good site for "birther" debunking.]

One of my friends in the small community of Obama “birther”-debunkers passes on quite the discovery: a 1964 “certified copy of registration of birth” from Australia, easily available on Bomford.net, a genealogy site. There are striking similarities between this document and the one Orly Taitz is passing off as a “Kenyan birth certificate” for Barack Obama.

- The design is identical, down to the seal at the top and the classifications (”Christian name,” etc) used for identifying the baby.

- The “registrar” on the Bomford document is G.F. Lavender. On the Taitz document, it’s E.F. Lavender.

- The “district registrar” on the Bomford document is J.H. Miller. On the Taitz document, it’s M.H. Miller.

http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=95000

More Urban Legends about Obama:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/lr/barack_obama/544633/1/

Where is the vault copy????? All it takes is a phone call of from Obama.....

[Terry Mauro]

There is a tremendous amount of anger building in the population towards Obama and his adminstration. It seems to be centered around his healthcare rationing policies.

It is quite strange that Obama came in to office facing the worst economic/ financial crisis in over 70 years, along with record levels of unemployment. You have industries like the auto sector collapsing and entire states around the country are bankrupt. Obama instead of dealing with the economic and financial crisis as he promised he would do chooses instead to invest his Presidency in "cutting healthcare" to the poor and elderly. You have to question what is really going on here.

Here's a report that was posted on LaRouchepac website. It appears they had quite a brawl in Michigan.

MUST READ - CAMPAIGN NEWS

Dingell Town Hall in Romulus, Michigan: Real Politics Have

Reawakened!

Aug. 7 (LPAC)--Lyndon LaRouche's political forecast of the coming

lynch mobs against Obama's economic policies, was demonstrated

anew last night in Romulus, Michigan. Democratic Congressman John

Dingell attempted to have a small town meeting (using a room fit

for 150-200 people), but close to 1,000 turned out. They had to

break the meeting up into two parts, letting each group in for an

hour.

Three LaRouche PAC organizers were there at the start

(reinforcements were later on the way), barely able to pass out

literature as fast as it was being requested. Many of the people

agreed with the LaRouche PAC's proposals, and were familiar with

LaRouche, or knew of him. One LPAC organizer was holding a huge

"Obamustache" poster with the caption "I've changed," drawing the

attention of all, with a clear majority very supportive. On

several occasions, the crowd defended LaRouche PAC's presence.

The police tried to tell the organizers to go outside, but as

soon as people realized what was happening, they shouted at the

policeman that the LaRouche PAC had a right to be there. The

policeman nervously inquired if the organizers would be calm,

which the organizers affirmed, adding, however, that if they were

forced to leave, things would quickly stop being calm (referring

to the audience).

Just as the organizers were about to enter the meeting room,

a security person came up and said they had cut into the line

(which was true), and that they needed to go to the back of the

line (thereby guaranteeing that they would not make it inside).

He was quickly denounced by the people nearby in the line, who

said that the organizers were with them, and that they should be

let in.

When everyone was settling down, one LaRouche PAC organizer

held up the large (approximately 4'x4') poster of Obama with a

Hitler moustache, and the whole room burst into cheers and

applause, with many participants taking pictures.

The tone of the event was set when a Baby Boomer man

approached the front of the room, pushing his son, who was in a

wheelchair. He demanded to speak, saying that Obama's health-care

bill would be a death sentence for his son, who has cerebral

palsy. Dingell said there was an amendment in the bill that would

help cover the chronically ill, but neither the man or the

audience believed him. The man and his son were escorted out by

security.

Nearly every time Dingell tried to speak, the crowd was in

an uproar. Many pointed questions were being yelled out by the

audience, such as "How are you going to make things cheaper

without cutting care? Will people be denied care near the end of

their lives?" In many cases, the constituents had done their

homework, bringing highlighted copies of the bill with them, and

referring to specific sections in their remarks. People knew that

end-of-life care = euthanasia, and it came across both in the

questions voiced at the mic (by the moderator), and in what

people were shouting out.

Some people seemed to almost come to blows both inside and

outside the event, though most activity/discussion was grounded

in reason.

When the LaRouche PAC reinforcements arrived, they set up a

book table, and before one could blink, it was surrounded by

people. Individual organizers were briefing 3-4 people at a time,

with many signing up, as the LaRouche PAC was the only one

presenting a solution. Fights were erupting all around, as people

argued over whether or not to support the bill. The organizers

got out at least 20 bundles of literature, with several people

asking for extras for their friends and family. By the end of the

event, some people were carrying around nearly a bundle to take

home with them.

A few details from the table: One lady with the Tea Partiers

gave us the contact info for the local head of their group, and

took extra literature to get out at their next meeting. Another

organizer for the Campaign for Liberty said that we were already

in touch with her, and that we have addressed their meetings

before. She was excited to see the LaRouche PAC there, and took

extra literature to distribute. Though a few officers in uniform

took literature, one organizer spotted a policeman who left in

uniform, came back in plain clothes, and snatched some literature

off the booktable before quickly walking away.

Photos and videos are available on LaroucheNet. (Tiffany

DET)

More from the healthcare meetings.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32338375/ns/po..._new_york_times

[Len Colby]

Where is the vault copy????? All it takes is a phone call of from Obama.....

So Craig can you document your claim that “All it takes is a phone call of from Obama” to get a copy of “the vault copy” of his birth certificate?

How do you explain...

...the birth announcement in the Honolulu Registar?

...that neither McCain nor any of Obama's Democratic rivals persued this issue if his status as a native born citizen is suspect?

As for Taiz (in her mind at least) she has all but nailed Obama for involvement in 9/11 :

(Attachment C) shows an address in New Jersey for Kelly J. McCrum, wife of Craig M. Robinson. Craig Robinson is Michelle Obama’s brother, and is listed at 45 Willow Street in South Amboy, NJ. Not only can this address not be found by mapping the street, but this address had a credit lien on it by a company, Burlow Plumbing. Burlow Plumbing has a commercial affiliate named Magic Plumbing.

(Attachment D) shows that Magic Plumbing had worked on the sprinkler system at the World Trade Center just days before 9/11. One of the men that performed this work lived in Brooklyn. He left Brooklyn on 9/11 and went to Tennessee. A woman that had a court date involving identity theft with the motor vehicle department in Tennessee met a mysterious death. Mr. Chatfield had no comment or thought in reference to this material being shown to him.

A few observations are in order:

-Documentation for these claims is NOT provided

-No evidence is produced that the Kelly J. McCrum from NJ is the same Kelly McCrum who married Obama’s brother-in-law

-The couple only got married in 2006

-The address is easily found with Google, Yahoo and other online map services

-According to Taiz herself elsewhere the Burlow affiliate is actually named “Magic Touch Construction Company Inc”. It is located at 59 W Front St Keyport, NJ. Magic Plumbing was located at “93rd Street in Brooklyn” about 30 miles / 45 minutes away by car. There are hundreds of companies in the US with the word 'magic' in their names.

- It is unclear what work the Brooklyn company did the Port Authority said they did their own sprinler work and records of which companies did work for which tennants was destroyed by the collapses.

[Ron Ecker]

Obama will not release his college transcripts because he actually never went to college.

[Craig Lamson]

Where is the vault copy????? All it takes is a phone call of from Obama.....

So Craig can you document your claim that “All it takes is a phone call of from Obama” to get a copy of “the vault copy” of his birth certificate?

How do you explain...

...the birth announcement in the Honolulu Registar?

...that neither McCain nor any of Obama's Democratic rivals persued this issue if his status as a native born citizen is suspect?

As for Taiz (in her mind at least) she has all but nailed Obama for involvement in 9/11 :

(Attachment C) shows an address in New Jersey for Kelly J. McCrum, wife of Craig M. Robinson. Craig Robinson is Michelle Obama’s brother, and is listed at 45 Willow Street in South Amboy, NJ. Not only can this address not be found by mapping the street, but this address had a credit lien on it by a company, Burlow Plumbing. Burlow Plumbing has a commercial affiliate named Magic Plumbing.

(Attachment D) shows that Magic Plumbing had worked on the sprinkler system at the World Trade Center just days before 9/11. One of the men that performed this work lived in Brooklyn. He left Brooklyn on 9/11 and went to Tennessee. A woman that had a court date involving identity theft with the motor vehicle department in Tennessee met a mysterious death. Mr. Chatfield had no comment or thought in reference to this material being shown to him.

A few observations are in order:

-Documentation for these claims is NOT provided

-No evidence is produced that the Kelly J. McCrum from NJ is the same Kelly McCrum who married Obama’s brother-in-law

-The couple only got married in 2006

-The address is easily found with Google, Yahoo and other online map services

-According to Taiz herself elsewhere the Burlow affiliate is actually named “Magic Touch Construction Company Inc”. It is located at 59 W Front St Keyport, NJ. Magic Plumbing was located at “93rd Street in Brooklyn” about 30 miles / 45 minutes away by car. There are hundreds of companies in the US with the word 'magic' in their names.

- It is unclear what work the Brooklyn company did the Port Authority said they did their own sprinler work and records of which companies did work for which tennants was destroyed by the collapses.

Hawaiian offical have stated they can only release the document with Obama's authorization. I've not seen any documantation from Hawaii that states more than a phone call from Obama is required in his case. I am however open to reviewing any documentation you might have that would shed more light on his specfic case. If it can be shown that more than a phone call is required in his specfic case I will gladly modify my statement.

However he IS the sitting president of tte United States. I'm guessing a phone call would do just fine.

In any case the document is still SECRET

I'm not contesting his citzenship Len, only his total lack of openness in regards to his records, the long form certificate of live birth included.

BTW can you direct us to these Obama documents?

Occidental College records

Columbia College records

Columbia Thesis paper

Harvard College records

Selective Service Registration

Medical records

Illinois State Senate records

Illinois State Senate schedule

Law practice client list

Harvard Law Review articles that were published

University of Chicago scholarly articles

Edited August 8, 2009 by Craig Lamson

[William Kelly]

I guess its hard to respond to hate without picking up on it, and some people do deserve being hated, but for the right reasons. I hate spammers and people like Pritchett and their pals who send this email juke out to hundreds of thousands of people, who either could learn who Obama is and how he was educated and what his policies are, rather than be scared and TRYING to instill that same fear in others by encouraging it to be passed on and on.

Bush was certainly a lot scarrier and evil than Obama. Evil is the new buzz word. The ex-Governor of Alaska, whatsher name? says Obama's health plan is "evil." She doesn't know what evil is.

You would think a guy as smart as Lou Pritchett would not be scared if he educated himself and got answers to each point he raised, rather than remain ignorant and try to pass his ignorance on to others.

BK

The problem is it appears the only hate CAME from Biill Kelly.

Okay I hate hate Obama Spamers, who seem to thrive in my email in box. But I'm not a threat to violently attack Prichert or the Spammers, like Obama is a target for those who are instigated to hate him.

You appear to hate freedom of speach.

Prichert can say anything he wants, but that can't stop me from responding to him. How is that an appearance of hatred of freedom of speech? Evis was the buzz word yesterday, Hate is the buzz word today.

You CANT really learn who Obama is because his records are SECRET.

We know everything we need to know about Obama; NOTHING is secret, except to those who don't want to read his background and policies, other than the Obama Hate Spam that is circulated.

Pritchett raises legimate questions. Thats not hateful in the least.

Prichert raises questions that he can answer himself by doing a little reserach, but his intention is not to answer questions about Obama but to sturr up more hate, and imply that he is Evil. He's just an ignorant corporate idiot who will not change his opinions with new information but will remain an ignorant, reactionary idiot.

Now the latest Obama Hate Spam says that Obama is not allowed, by law, to keep track of the hate emails he gets, or those who send them, which I'm sure is another Urban Myth that is being perpetuated by the likes of Prichert and Company.

So now I've started a Obama Hate Mail file and I'll not only keep track of them, but try to follow them to their real source - as many of them come from what appears to be ordinary citizens, but when looked at closer, are really Carl Rove and his gang of thugs.

Prichertt and his Wall Mart friends are responsible for destroying community capitalism, and anything he has to say is laid meaningless by WHO he is.

We know who Obama is, and Prichertt and his pals are much more scarier because the people they are trying to influence are capable of violence against Obama.

Bill Kelly

Edited August 8, 2009 by William Kelly

[William Kelly]

Obama will not release his college transcripts because he actually never went to college.

Now I'm convinced that Obama is an alien. Maybe from the Pleadies.

He must be the Savior we have been waiting for.

BK

[William Kelly]

FLAG THAT FISH

That's what I'm going to call it - The Fishy File.

And besides the long list of items tagged, corrected and released by Dave Emery at the Urban Legends site, I'm going to start by FLAGGING this story from Fox News.

It is impossible for Obama to have gone through multible political campaigns against much more vicious opponents every one of whom vetted Obama with a fine tooth comb, so the idea that his birth certificate, college transcripts and health records have not been checked by the Devil himself is not possible.

As they successfully did during the campaign, they quickly identified any open source published or posted article that didn't actually reflect the statements and policies of the candidate.

As we have seen, there has been a conserted and relentless attack on Obama and his policies, an opposition that is expected, and officially represented by the Republican Party.

But we have also seen and expect this opposition to come from the media, and political pundants, and Young Americans For Freedom Yahoos, and your right wing, conservative reactionaries, because they are reactionaries - and this is an excellent example.

The spin, direct from Carl Rove's flip side of reality office, and brought to you live by FOX News - is that the attempts to identify and correct open source published or posted information that is wrong - is actually an attempt to collect names and stiffle free speech.

Just as I was accused of stiffiling free speech by Craig Lamson, here Obama is accused of the same thing for trying to correct the published record of wrong information.

So now I'm going to start Flagging Fishy Stories, beginning with this one, which proves there is something rotten in Denmark, as I can smell it from Fox News.

There is no attempt to collect names, as the White House points out, and no attempt to stiffle free speech, but you wouldn't know that from this FOX NEWS report:

White House Move to Collect 'Fishy' Info May Be Illegal, Critics Say

The White House has been under fire since posting a blog on Tuesday that asks supporters to e-mail any "fishy" information seen on the Web or received electronically.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/07...al-critics-say/

The White House strategy of turning supporters into snitches when they see "fishy" information about the health care debate may run afoul of the law, legal experts say.

"The White House is in bit of a conundrum because of this privacy statute that prohibits the White House from collecting data and storing it on people who disagree with it," Judge Andrew Napolitano, a FOX News analyst, said Friday.

"There's also a statute that requires the White House to retain all communications that it receives. It can't try to rewrite history by pretending it didn't receive anything," he said.

"If the White House deletes anything, it violates one statute. If the White House collects data on the free speech, it violates another statute."

Napolitano was referring to the Privacy Act of 1974, which was passed after the Nixon administration used federal agencies to illegally investigate individuals for political purposes. Enacted after Richard Nixon's resignation in the Watergate scandal, the statute generally prohibits any federal agency from maintaining records on individuals exercising their right to free speech.

The White House has been under fire since it posted a blog on Tuesday that asked supporters to e-mail any "fishy" information seen on the Web or received electronically to flag@whitehouse.gov.

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there," the blog said, adding that "since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're asking for your help."

The blog was posted partly in response to a video posted on the Web that claimed to show Obama explaining how his health care reform plans eventually will eliminate private insurance.

The video, featured on the Drudge Report, strung together selected Obama statements that the White House said were taken out of context.

The White House said it wanted to be made aware of "fishy" comments about its health care plan because it wants to set the record straight. But critics called White House move an Orwellian tactic designed to control the health care debate.

"This is a very troubling attempt to stifle the free speech of Americans who have the constitutional right to express their opinion and concerns about health care," said Jay Sekulow, chief counsel of the American Center for Law and Justice. He called on Obama to repudiate his blog.

"This move is an attempt to intimidate those who have legitimate concerns about the health care plan," Sekulow said. "And, worse, it turns the White House into some sort of self-appointed 'speech police.' This new White House reporting program strikes at the heart of the First Amendment and has no place in this important debate about health care."

Sekulow said he imagines that opponents of mandatory abortion coverage are engaging in what the White House considers "fishy" speech and should be reported.

"What the White House is touting is absurd," he said.

But Napolitano said the White House probably cannot be sued because of sovereign immunity, unless someone was harmed by what the government did with the records. But that's unlikely, he said, because the person would probably be unaware of the harm.

"That's a silent violation of your right to privacy," he said.

The ACLU said in a statement to FOXNews.com that the White House blog is a "bad idea that could send a troublesome message."

But the organization added, "While it is unclear at this point what the government is doing with the information it is collecting, critics of the administration's health care proposal should not fear that their names will end up in some government database that could be used to chill their right to free speech."

The White House Thursday denied that it was playing "Big Brother."

"Nobody is collecting names," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said. "We have seen, and as I've discussed from this podium, a lot of misinformation around health care reform, a lot of it spread, I think, purposefully."

Texas Sen. John Cornyn, who has called on Obama to end the program, rejected the White House explanation.

"Of course the White House is collecting names," he said, arguing that anyone with access to the e-mail account has access to private information.

"The question is not what the White House is doing, but how and why," he said. "How are they purging names and e-mail addresses from this account to protect privacy? Why do they need the forwarded e-mails, names, and 'casual conversations' sent to them instead of just the arguments that they want to rebut?

Asked by FOX News whether the White House was using the blog post as a way to expand the e-mail list for the administration and Obama's political arm, Organizing for America, Gibbs said the two are "not in any way connected" and repeated that the White House is not collecting names.

Pressed about the program's goal, Gibbs said it was to clarify for everybody what the misinformation is, adding that's not a new tactic.

"When you make a mistake in your report, sometimes I e-mail you," Gibbs said to FOX News' Major Garrett. "Occasionally, I call. Sometimes I just throw something against the wall. Occasionally, it's all three."

Garrett asked why it's necessary to ask so many people to e-mail the White House.

"All we're asking people to do is, if they're confused about what health care reform is going to mean to them, we're happy to help clear that up for them. Nobody's keeping anybody's names. I do have your e-mail. ...Maybe that's because I assume future mistakes. But I'm not going to say that," Gibbs said, drawing laughter.

"But nobody's collecting information," he added. "Everybody is trying to give people only the facts around what we all understand is a very complicated issue."

[William Kelly]

Obama will not release his college transcripts because he actually never went to college.

Now I'm convinced that Obama is an alien. Maybe from the Pleadies.

He must be the Savior we have been waiting for.

BK

You know Ron,

There was a con-artist who played many roles - including Navy officer, doctor - who performed operations - and was written up in Life Magazine and played in the movie by Tony Curtis, though I can't remember the name of the film. There was another story and film about a black guy in NY city who claimed to be the son of Harry Belafonte.

Now if Obama really was such a con-artist who was born in Kenya and never went to college, then he's really good, and deserves to be president for being such a great actor.

BK

[William Kelly]

Yo! Scott,

What are you laughing at?

BK

[Craig Lamson]

I guess its hard to respond to hate without picking up on it, and some people do deserve being hated, but for the right reasons. I hate spammers and people like Pritchett and their pals who send this email juke out to hundreds of thousands of people, who either could learn who Obama is and how he was educated and what his policies are, rather than be scared and TRYING to instill that same fear in others by encouraging it to be passed on and on.

Bush was certainly a lot scarrier and evil than Obama. Evil is the new buzz word. The ex-Governor of Alaska, whatsher name? says Obama's health plan is "evil." She doesn't know what evil is.

You would think a guy as smart as Lou Pritchett would not be scared if he educated himself and got answers to each point he raised, rather than remain ignorant and try to pass his ignorance on to others.

BK

The problem is it appears the only hate CAME from Biill Kelly.

Okay I hate hate Obama Spamers, who seem to thrive in my email in box. But I'm not a threat to violently attack Prichert or the Spammers, like Obama is a target for those who are instigated to hate him.

Why are you getting spam UNLESS you want to see it? BTW did you feel the same about those who bashed GWB for 8 years or were you one of them?

You appear to hate freedom of speach.

Prichert can say anything he wants, but that can't stop me from responding to him. How is that an appearance of hatred of freedom of speech? Evis was the buzz word yesterday, Hate is the buzz word today.

You sure have plenty of that buzzword ...

You CANT really learn who Obama is because his records are SECRET.

We know everything we need to know about Obama; NOTHING is secret, except to those who don't want to read his background and policies, other than the Obama Hate Spam that is circulated.

Nothing is secret??? Please point us to these documents...

Occidental College records

Columbia College records

Columbia Thesis paper

Harvard College records

Selective Service Registration

Medical records

Illinois State Senate records

Illinois State Senate schedule

Law practice client list

Harvard Law Review articles that were published

University of Chicago scholarly articles

Pritchett raises legimate questions. Thats not hateful in the least.

Prichert raises questions that he can answer himself by doing a little reserach, but his intention is not to answer questions about Obama but to sturr up more hate, and imply that he is Evil. He's just an ignorant corporate idiot who will not change his opinions with new information but will remain an ignorant, reactionary idiot.

WOW your hate is intense! How can the questions be answered when the records needed ot answer them ARE SECRET????? Oh that's right Obama told you to just 'believe"

Now the latest Obama Hate Spam says that Obama is not allowed, by law, to keep track of the hate emails he gets, or those who send them, which I'm sure is another Urban Myth that is being perpetuated by the likes of Prichert and Company.

I don't have a clue what this new "email" is telling you but the fact is the Whitehouse has its "snitch" email line up and running but tells everyone that "oh no, we wont keep the names, addresses and ips of those you rat out" which is a complete untruth because the its the law that every email sent to the White House MUST be saved.

So now I've started a Obama Hate Mail file and I'll not only keep track of them, but try to follow them to their real source - as many of them come from what appears to be ordinary citizens, but when looked at closer, are really Carl Rove and his gang of thugs.

KARL ROVE...ROFLMAO!!!!!!

Prichertt and his Wall Mart friends are responsible for destroying community capitalism, and anything he has to say is laid meaningless by WHO he is.

Yea, they just worthless capitalists, who have helped create many thousand of jobs, helped people raise families, finance their retirements and laid the foundation for people to build businesses of their own ... starting the enpowerment cycle all over again. What has Obama done, beside sink us 1.4 trillion in debt in just a few months? Oh I forget, he voted "present".

We know who Obama is, and Prichertt and his pals are much more scarier because the people they are trying to influence are capable of violence against Obama.

Currently the only ones doing violence are the thugs being influenced by OBAMA...

Bill Kelly

WOW! Bill Kelly digging into the source of emails that question our DEAR LEADER yet he is quite comfortable with Obama hiding all of his life records from him. Amazing stuff. I guess he knows everything about Obama because Obama told him in the books he wrote about himself!

Let's see if Bill Kelly is willing to apply the same to the JFK case.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Craig Lamson

[Craig Lamson]

Self deleted dupe

Edited August 8, 2009 by Craig Lamson

[Craig Lamson]

FLAG THAT FISH

That's what I'm going to call it - The Fishy File.

And besides the long list of items tagged, corrected and released by Dave Emery at the Urban Legends site, I'm going to start by FLAGGING this story from Fox News.

It is impossible for Obama to have gone through multible political campaigns against much more vicious opponents every one of whom vetted Obama with a fine tooth comb, so the idea that his birth certificate, college transcripts and health records have not been checked by the Devil himself is not possible.

As they successfully did during the campaign, they quickly identified any open source published or posted article that didn't actually reflect the statements and policies of the candidate.

As we have seen, there has been a conserted and relentless attack on Obama and his policies, an opposition that is expected, and officially represented by the Republican Party.

But we have also seen and expect this opposition to come from the media, and political pundants, and Young Americans For Freedom Yahoos, and your right wing, conservative reactionaries, because they are reactionaries - and this is an excellent example.

The spin, direct from Carl Rove's flip side of reality office, and brought to you live by FOX News - is that the attempts to identify and correct open source published or posted information that is wrong - is actually an attempt to collect names and stiffle free speech.

Just as I was accused of stiffiling free speech by Craig Lamson, here Obama is accused of the same thing for trying to correct the published record of wrong information.

So now I'm going to start Flagging Fishy Stories, beginning with this one, which proves there is something rotten in Denmark, as I can smell it from Fox News.

There is no attempt to collect names, as the White House points out, and no attempt to stiffle free speech, but you wouldn't know that from this FOX NEWS report:

White House Move to Collect 'Fishy' Info May Be Illegal, Critics Say

The White House has been under fire since posting a blog on Tuesday that asks supporters to e-mail any "fishy" information seen on the Web or received electronically.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/07...al-critics-say/

The White House strategy of turning supporters into snitches when they see "fishy" information about the health care debate may run afoul of the law, legal experts say.

"The White House is in bit of a conundrum because of this privacy statute that prohibits the White House from collecting data and storing it on people who disagree with it," Judge Andrew Napolitano, a FOX News analyst, said Friday.

"There's also a statute that requires the White House to retain all communications that it receives. It can't try to rewrite history by pretending it didn't receive anything," he said.

"If the White House deletes anything, it violates one statute. If the White House collects data on the free speech, it violates another statute."

Napolitano was referring to the Privacy Act of 1974, which was passed after the Nixon administration used federal agencies to illegally investigate individuals for political purposes. Enacted after Richard Nixon's resignation in the Watergate scandal, the statute generally prohibits any federal agency from maintaining records on individuals exercising their right to free speech.

The White House has been under fire since it posted a blog on Tuesday that asked supporters to e-mail any "fishy" information seen on the Web or received electronically to flag@whitehouse.gov.

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there," the blog said, adding that "since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're asking for your help."

The blog was posted partly in response to a video posted on the Web that claimed to show Obama explaining how his health care reform plans eventually will eliminate private insurance.

The video, featured on the Drudge Report, strung together selected Obama statements that the White House said were taken out of context.

The White House said it wanted to be made aware of "fishy" comments about its health care plan because it wants to set the record straight. But critics called White House move an Orwellian tactic designed to control the health care debate.

"This is a very troubling attempt to stifle the free speech of Americans who have the constitutional right to express their opinion and concerns about health care," said Jay Sekulow, chief counsel of the American Center for Law and Justice. He called on Obama to repudiate his blog.

"This move is an attempt to intimidate those who have legitimate concerns about the health care plan," Sekulow said. "And, worse, it turns the White House into some sort of self-appointed 'speech police.' This new White House reporting program strikes at the heart of the First Amendment and has no place in this important debate about health care."

Sekulow said he imagines that opponents of mandatory abortion coverage are engaging in what the White House considers "fishy" speech and should be reported.

"What the White House is touting is absurd," he said.

But Napolitano said the White House probably cannot be sued because of sovereign immunity, unless someone was harmed by what the government did with the records. But that's unlikely, he said, because the person would probably be unaware of the harm.

"That's a silent violation of your right to privacy," he said.

The ACLU said in a statement to FOXNews.com that the White House blog is a "bad idea that could send a troublesome message."

But the organization added, "While it is unclear at this point what the government is doing with the information it is collecting, critics of the administration's health care proposal should not fear that their names will end up in some government database that could be used to chill their right to free speech."

The White House Thursday denied that it was playing "Big Brother."

"Nobody is collecting names," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said. "We have seen, and as I've discussed from this podium, a lot of misinformation around health care reform, a lot of it spread, I think, purposefully."

Texas Sen. John Cornyn, who has called on Obama to end the program, rejected the White House explanation.

"Of course the White House is collecting names," he said, arguing that anyone with access to the e-mail account has access to private information.

"The question is not what the White House is doing, but how and why," he said. "How are they purging names and e-mail addresses from this account to protect privacy? Why do they need the forwarded e-mails, names, and 'casual conversations' sent to them instead of just the arguments that they want to rebut?

Asked by FOX News whether the White House was using the blog post as a way to expand the e-mail list for the administration and Obama's political arm, Organizing for America, Gibbs said the two are "not in any way connected" and repeated that the White House is not collecting names.

Pressed about the program's goal, Gibbs said it was to clarify for everybody what the misinformation is, adding that's not a new tactic.

"When you make a mistake in your report, sometimes I e-mail you," Gibbs said to FOX News' Major Garrett. "Occasionally, I call. Sometimes I just throw something against the wall. Occasionally, it's all three."

Garrett asked why it's necessary to ask so many people to e-mail the White House.

"All we're asking people to do is, if they're confused about what health care reform is going to mean to them, we're happy to help clear that up for them. Nobody's keeping anybody's names. I do have your e-mail. ...Maybe that's because I assume future mistakes. But I'm not going to say that," Gibbs said, drawing laughter.

"But nobody's collecting information," he added. "Everybody is trying to give people only the facts around what we all understand is a very complicated issue."

So what is it Bill? Are they not collecting names and breaking the law or are they collecting names and breaking the law?

But hey, either way, don't worry, they promise not to do anything bad with the data....promise!

Can you imagine this being the GWB Whitehouse and the xxxxstorm coming from the the likes of Bill Kelly?

[Len Colby]

Thus Spoke LaRouchustra

MUST READ - CAMPAIGN NEWS

Dingell Town Hall in Romulus, Michigan: Real Politics Have

Reawakened!

Aug. 7 (LPAC)--Lyndon LaRouche's political forecast of the coming

lynch mobs against Obama's economic policies, was demonstrated

anew last night in Romulus, Michigan...

It’s hard to imagine that living on his secluded compound in Virginia with little contact with anyone who isn’t a sycophantic follower LaRouche has the pulse of the people. Despite his assertions to the contrary Obama remains popular.

[Len Colby]

Hawaiian offical have stated they can only release the document with Obama's authorization. I've not seen any documantation from Hawaii that states more than a phone call from Obama is required in his case. I am however open to reviewing any documentation you might have that would shed more light on his specfic case. If it can be shown that more than a phone call is required in his specfic case I will gladly modify my statement.

However he IS the sitting president of tte United States. I'm guessing a phone call would do just fine.

In any case the document is still SECRET

I didn’t ask the right question. I’d like to see a citation that they make and release copies of the original document you want to see.

I'm not contesting his citzenship Len, only his total lack of openness in regards to his records, the long form certificate of live birth included.

So do you doubt he was born in the US or not? If so please answer the questions from my previous post

BTW can you direct us to these Obama documents?

Occidental College records

Columbia College records

Columbia Thesis paper

Harvard College records

Selective Service Registration

Medical records

None of this is relevant to where he was born. McCain refused to release his records from the Naval Academy*. Obama’s 25 year-old Columbia thesis seems to have been lost. You went to college, do you still have your papers? I did but I don’t. Why do you want to see his selective service records? I agree though he should have released his medical records.

* http://www.eduinreview.com/blog/2008/10/jo...ollege-records/

Illinois State Senate records

Illinois State Senate schedule

What exactly do you think is missing? Some of these records seem to be available. Are the equivalent House and Senate records for McCain public?

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:qwJpoM...s-state-senate/

Law practice client list

Presumably confidential as part of lawyer client privilege and he seems to have worked mostly in the background doing research and writing memos. In any case a few articles have referred directly and indirectly to some of his clients.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/06/na.../na-obamalegal6

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obam...a-law17.article

Harvard Law Review articles that were published

University of Chicago scholarly articles

IIRC he doesn’t seem to have written anything for the HLR, what evidence do have that there are any missing “University of Chicago scholarly articles”