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9/11 Truth is No "Parlor Game"

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Guest James H. Fetzer

9/11 Truth Is No “Parlor Game”

Jim Fetzer

A disturbing article on ConsortiumNews.com, “The 9/11 Truth Parlor Game” (15 January, updated 16 January 2011), by Robert Parry, advances the indefensible theory that the shooting of Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) was affected by the shooters interest in 9/11 truth. While there are good reasons to suspect that the political climate nurtured by the right wing may have influenced him (by targeting a series of representatives using the cross-hairs of a telescopic site, for example), there is no reason to believe than anyone associated with the 9/11 truth movement has targeted any members of Congress—other than attempting to expose them to the evidence that research has unearthed, which has shown that virtually every claim the government has made about 9/11 is provably false.

As the founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, a society of experts and scholars from many different disciplines, including pilots, physicists, structural, mechanical and aeronautical engineers, we have established more than twenty refutations of the government’s official account, including what NIST has had to say about these events, which does not satisfy even minimal standards of scientific acceptability. In this article, for example, Parry maintains that the collapse of the Twin Towers was assured “effect once the beams were weakened by the impact of the planes and the heat from the fires.” But NIST studied 236 samples of steel it selected from the debris and discovered that 233 had not been exposed to temperatures above 500*F and the other three not above 1,200*F, temperatures far below what would have been required for the steel to weaken, much less melt.

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One of the most remarkable features of the destruction of the Twin Towers is that the top 30 floors of the South Tower began to pivot before the building was blown to pieces, floor by floor. This refutes the claim that they were “collapsing”, insofar as those top 30 floors were not in the position to exert any downward force that might have brought about a collapse. The South Tower was hit second but was the first to be demolished after only an hour of exposure to fires at 500*F, which is the temperature of ordinary office fires. If that were enough to cause steel and concrete buildings to “collapse”, there would be no need for resorting to controlled demolitions. In fact, no steel structure high-rise ever collapsed due to fire before 9/11 or after 9/11. And if our research is well-founded, that did not happen on 9/11 either. It is part of the mythology of 9/11 brought to us by Philip Zelikow, whose area of academic specialization is the creation and maintenance of public myths.

Since Underwriters Laboratory had certified the steel used in the buildings to 2,000*F for three or four hours without incurring any adverse effects by either weakening or melting, the fires could have burned forever and not have caused the towers to collapse. Jet fuel is made of kerosene, which burns at a lower temperature than propane; yet, as Jesse Ventura has observed, his camping stove, which burns propane, does not melt when he uses it. Since the fires were asymmetrically distributed, moreover, if they had burned hot enough or long enough to have caused the steel to weaken, the result would have been some asymmetrical sagging and tilting, not the complete, abrupt and total demolition that occurred. Which means that Parry is trading in 9/11 fiction, not 9/11 fact.

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He even denies that WTC-7, a 47-story skyscraper that came down at 5:20 PM, seven hours after the Twin Towers were destroyed, was a controlled demolition. It fell in approximately 6.5 seconds, which is about the speed of free fall, a classic indication of a collapse that was brought about by a controlled demolition. Many experts have found the pattern of collapse supports that conclusion. A very nice video that demonstrates this to be the case,

, refutes his allegation that it was because the building had a large atrium that it collapsed as fast as free fall. That ignores the fact that the entire building was extremely robust in construction, having been erected over two massive electrical generators providing back-up electricity for lower Manhattan. This building obviously came down as the result of a controlled demolition, which is why so many in the 9/11 truth community emphasize WTC-7.

He also talks about a vast number of witnesses seeing a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon and talks about phone calls that were made from the planes. David Ray Griffin, however, has discovered that all of the alleged phone calls from all four of the planes were faked. None of them were real. And Pilots for 9/11 Truth had studied the black box data provided to them by the NTSB and discovered that a plane corresponding to the data would have approached on an easterly trajectory, been 300 feet in the air approaching the building (too high to have taken out any lampposts) and was still 100 feet higher than the Pentagon at one second from impact, which suggests that it flew over the building and did not hit it. Indeed, the absence of massive debris from the plane, including the absence of the wings, the tail, bodies, seats and luggage—not to mention that the massive engines, which are virtually indestructible, were never recovered—indicates that, once again, it is Parry who is propagating myths about 9/11, not 9/11 experts.

Continued (below)

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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Guest James H. Fetzer

9/11 Truth is No "Parlor Game" (continued)

While the thrust of Parry’s piece is clearly intended to discredit 9/11 research, he makes at least one important point, which is that we have not yet succeeded in sorting out exactly how all of this was done. The Twin Towers appear to have been taken out by some novel form of

where, in contrast to WTC-7, each floor remained stationary waiting its turn to be blown to Kingdom come. They, too, came down at approximately free fall speed, which is simply astounding since, in the case of the South Tower, everything below the 80th floor was stone cold steel, as was the case for the North below the 94th floor. There was no reason for them to collapse at all, where their destruction involved the astounding conversion of two massive, 500,000-ton buildings into millions of cubic yards of very fine dust. While the use of thermite has been advanced to explain it, Parry appears to be correct that thermite does not have the explosive properties that would be required to effect this dramatic physical tranformation.

200ad5z.jpg

Persons like Parry and others, such as Michael Shermer, would have the public believe that conspiracy theories are almost always false, as though the United States were an exception to the experience of other nations. What would William Shakespeare have had to write about were it not for plots against the kings and queens of England? What 9/11 apologists like Shermer and Parry do not point out is that conspiracies only require two or more persons acting together to bring about an illegal end. If the official account of 19 Islamic fundamentalists seizing control of these four aircraft, outfoxing the most sophisticated air defense system in the world, and perpetrating these atrocities under the control of a guy in a cave in Afghanistan were true, it would be a conspiracy theory, too. Indeed, it appears to be the one that is the most easily falsified of them all. So if we are going to discuss “the pivotal event” of the 21st Century, we are going to have to study conspiracy theories to determine which of them is true and which are false.

Parry claims that the Tucson gunman was affected by 9/11 truth and became enraged at images of Bush and Cheney, who, as we all know, lied to us about the reasons for attacking Afghanistan and later Iraq. There were no weapons of mass destruction; Saddam Hussein was not seeking yellowcake from Niger; and Iraq was not in cahoots with al Qaeda. Indeed, Bush himself would eventually admit that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, just as our own FBI had acknowledged that it has “no hard evidence” connecting Osama to the 9/11 attacks. For those who want to learn more about the truth of 9/11, I arranged for a symposium in London this past summer, which was held at Friends House on 14 July 2010. You can view our presentations, including “Are Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan justified by 9/11?”, here. Everyone who knows the truth should be angry with the Bush and Cheney administration, which has lied to us about it. But there is no reason to think that any of this had had anything to do with the Tucson event, where the difference between someone's interest in 9/11 and their reasons for acting as they do requires more careful discrimination.

Jim Fetzer, a former Marine Corps officer who earned his Ph.D. in the history and the philosophy of science, is McKnight Professor Emeritus on the Duluth campus of the University of Minnesota. He co-edits assassinationresearch.com with John P. Costella and is, most recently, the editor of The Place of Probability in Scienceˆ, his 29th book.

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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And Pilots for 9/11 Truth had studied the black box data provided to them by the NTSB and discovered that a plane corresponding to the data would have approached on an easterly trajectory, been 300 feet in the air approaching the building (too high to have taken out any lampposts) and was still 100 feet higher than the Pentagon at one second from impact, which suggests that it flew over the building and did not hit it. Indeed, the absence of massive debris from the plane, including the absence of the wings, the tail, bodies, seats and luggage—not to mention that the massive engines, which are virtually indestructible, were never recovered—indicates that, once again, it is Parry who is propagating myths about 9/11, not 9/11 experts.

Ignoring that Balsamo and his cohorts faked some data in order to get the result he wanted, that people ignore that seats and bodies were found, ignoring all reality.... well, I suppose it could have happened that way.

http://forums.randi....ad.php?t=197206

http://www.911myths....al_effects.html

http://www.911myths....7_wreckage.html

P200042.jpg

P200047.jpg

http://www.vaed.usco...on/P200048.html

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9/11 Truth Is No “Parlor Game”A disturbing article on ConsortiumNews.com, “The 9/11 Truth Parlor Game” (15 January, updated 16 January 2011), by Robert Parry, advances the indefensible theory that the shooting of Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) was affected by the shooters interest in 9/11 truth. While there are good reasons to suspect that the political climate nurtured by the right wing may have influenced him (by targeting a series of representatives using the cross-hairs of a telescopic site, for example), there is no reason to believe than anyone associated with the 9/11 truth movement has targeted any members of Congress—other than attempting to expose them to the evidence that research has unearthed,

Like always Fetzer gets things backwards, he didn't cite the right article by Parry. At this point there is no reason to believe that Loughner was influnced by Palin putting crosshairs on Giffords' district nor by Daily Kos putting a bull's eye on it. They only targeted her for defeat at the polls and he was way beyond mainstream politics.

Local truthers on the other hand accused her of being a “war criminal” and being involved in the cover up of 9/11 (see video below) so not did they want her out of Congress but they think she should be arrested or worse. And her attempted assassin was a local truther.

The Loughner they met when he was a freshman at Mountain View High School may have been socially awkward, but he was generally happy and fun to be around. The crew smoked marijuana everyday, and when they weren't going to concerts or watching movies they talked about the meaning of life and dabbled in conspiracy theories.

Mistrust of government was his defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the government was behind 9/11, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system ("a New World Order currency" one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110110/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_gunman_11

According to one of his high school friends said, “I think this Zeitgeits documentary had a profound impact on Jared Loughner's mindset”. The conspiracy theories concerning 9/11 and the Federal Reserve were major focuses of the film.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jared-laughners-friend-tells-gma-he-did-not-watch-tv-he-disliked-the-news/

http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,124,0

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2011/01/loughner-radically-changed.html

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Len didn't notice there was even an "Editor's note" about this regarding the version that I have cited:

The 9/11 'Truth' Parlor Game

By Robert Parry

January 15, 2011 (Updated January 16, 2011)

Editor's Note: This story has been updated to note the New York Times report on Sunday that the alleged

Tucson assassin's hostility toward government was influenced by the "9/11 truth" conspiracy theories:

9/11 Truth Is No “Parlor Game”A disturbing article on ConsortiumNews.com, “The 9/11 Truth Parlor Game” (15 January, updated 16 January 2011), by Robert Parry, advances the indefensible theory that the shooting of Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) was affected by the shooters interest in 9/11 truth. While there are good reasons to suspect that the political climate nurtured by the right wing may have influenced him (by targeting a series of representatives using the cross-hairs of a telescopic site, for example), there is no reason to believe than anyone associated with the 9/11 truth movement has targeted any members of Congress—other than attempting to expose them to the evidence that research has unearthed,

Like always Fetzer gets things backwards, he didn't cite the right article by Parry. At this point there is no reason to believe that Loughner was influnced by Palin putting crosshairs on Giffords' district nor by Daily Kos putting a bull's eye on it. They only targeted her for defeat at the polls and he was way beyond mainstream politics.

Local truthers on the other hand accused her of being a “war criminal” and being involved in the cover up of 9/11 (see video below) so not did they want her out of Congress but they think she should be arrested or worse. And her attempted assassin was a local truther.

The Loughner they met when he was a freshman at Mountain View High School may have been socially awkward, but he was generally happy and fun to be around. The crew smoked marijuana everyday, and when they weren't going to concerts or watching movies they talked about the meaning of life and dabbled in conspiracy theories.

Mistrust of government was his defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the government was behind 9/11, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system ("a New World Order currency" one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110110/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_gunman_11

According to one of his high school friends said, “I think this Zeitgeits documentary had a profound impact on Jared Loughner's mindset”. The conspiracy theories concerning 9/11 and the Federal Reserve were major focuses of the film.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jared-laughners-friend-tells-gma-he-did-not-watch-tv-he-disliked-the-news/

http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,124,0

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2011/01/loughner-radically-changed.html

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Since there was no plane, there were no passengers, either. I don't know where Evan comes up with some

of this stuff--he apparently has VERY GOOD connections--but no plane hit the Pentagon and therefore, if

any bodies were found there, they cannot have been "passengers" but they can very well be planted bodies.

And Pilots for 9/11 Truth had studied the black box data provided to them by the NTSB and discovered that a plane corresponding to the data would have approached on an easterly trajectory, been 300 feet in the air approaching the building (too high to have taken out any lampposts) and was still 100 feet higher than the Pentagon at one second from impact, which suggests that it flew over the building and did not hit it. Indeed, the absence of massive debris from the plane, including the absence of the wings, the tail, bodies, seats and luggage—not to mention that the massive engines, which are virtually indestructible, were never recovered—indicates that, once again, it is Parry who is propagating myths about 9/11, not 9/11 experts.

Ignoring that Balsamo and his cohorts faked some data in order to get the result he wanted, that people ignore that seats and bodies were found, ignoring all reality.... well, I suppose it could have happened that way.

http://forums.randi....ad.php?t=197206

http://www.911myths....al_effects.html

http://www.911myths....7_wreckage.html

P200042.jpg

P200047.jpg

http://www.vaed.usco...on/P200048.html

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Or photographs taken elsewhere and attributed to the Pentagon. This is child's play for agencies like the

CIA, but I suppose that possibility is not one that would cross the mind of a "true believer" like Evan Burton.

No plane means no bodies (of passengers), where any presented have to be fake or have other crash origins.

P200045.jpg

P200048.jpg

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Nice going Jim - if evidence appears that refutes your claims, just ignore it or claim it is faked. That's what you have done in the past, so why change?

Those images and reports were part of the Moussaoui trial and from people who were at the scene... which you and others were not. The onus is on you to prove that these images and accounts are not true.

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Len didn't notice there was even an "Editor's note" about this regarding the version that I have cited:

The 9/11 'Truth' Parlor Game

By Robert Parry

January 15, 2011 (Updated January 16, 2011)

Editor's Note: This story has been updated to note the New York Times report on Sunday that the alleged

Tucson assassin's hostility toward government was influenced by the "9/11 truth" conspiracy theories:

Perry wrote two essays that mentioned Loughner and the ‘“Truth” movement’. The first, entitled “Palin Depicts Herself as Tucson Victim”, contained the following paragragh:

“The Left might stop tolerating evidence-deficient conspiracy theories like the 9/11 “truth” claims, which appear to have been a factor in whatever thinking was going on inside Loughner’s brain. He’s reported to have been a fan of “Loose Change” and “Zeitgeist,” two “documentaries” that push the “inside-job” theories about the attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon.”

“The 9/11 'Truth' Parlor Game”, the second, had these references to the topic:

Editor's Note: This story has been updated to note the New York Times report on Sunday that the alleged Tucson assassin's hostility toward government was influenced by the "9/11 truth" conspiracy theories:

It seems that I have upset some folks on the Left again, this time by mentioning – deep inside a story about Sarah Palin’s proclaimed victimhood over the Tucson massacre fallout – that groups like the 9/11 “truthers” also have contributed to America’s crazed political environment.

[…]

Update: On Sunday, in a profile of alleged Tucson gunman Jared L. Loughner, the New York Times reported that as "a curious teenager," Loughner "became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government. ...

"His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government."

Given how a mentally disturbed young person can process information (or disinformation), it is incumbent on all of us who speak in today's public square to be responsible, especially when we make serious allegations like suggesting that Bush and the U.S. government "made" 9/11 happen.

So Parry “advance[d] the…theory that the shooting of Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) [might have been] affected by the shooters interest in 9/11 truth” in the former and provided an update and reported the repercussions of the theory in the second. But this was not the focus of my previous post.

Fetzer chose to ignore my principle point, there was nothing “indefensible” about the notion “that the shooting of Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) was affected by [Loughner’s] interest in 9/11 truth” and it makes more sense than the idea he was set off by Palin “using the cross-hairs of a telescopic site” on her district or Daily Kos putting a bull’s eye on it.

1) Unlike conservatives and liberals who only marked her for defeat “Truthers” labeled her a “war criminal” and claimed she was helping cover up 9/11 (i.e. mass murder)

2) There is no evidence Loughner paid attention to Palin or Daily Kos and based on his list of favorite books and friends comments that seems unlikely. On the other hand we know he believed 9/11 was an “inside job” and liked “Loose Change” and “Zeitgeist” the latter of which “had a profound impact on Jared Loughner's mindset” according to a close friend.

To make a long story short though he does not seem to have formally been part of the “movement” Loughner shared their beliefs about 9/11, local truthers labeled Giffords a “war criminal” and insinuated she was an accessory after the fact, Loughner put a bullet in her brain.

But to tell the truth I don’t think his beliefs about 9/11 were the primary motive, he is a total pycho whose brain draws irrational conclusions, has a problem with women is positions of authority is adamantly opposed to abortion and seems to have a grudge against Giffords; she did not answer his question, "What is government if words have no meaning?"

Might his belief that 9/11 was orchestrated by the Bush administration tip the scale? We are unlikely to ever know, Loughner isn’t talking and even if he does he might not tell the truth. His friends, several of who had little or no contact with him the last couple of years, can only guess and we can only guess which of them are closest to the truth.

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...

P200048.jpg

P200048 Photograph of a body found inside the Pentagon after Flight 77 crashed into the building [emphasis mine]

Pentagon employee, of plane passenger Evan?

Edited by David G. Healy

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That's a good point, David. I don't know. If Jim believes it was not of a passenger, then he could make a FOI request and ask if the image showed a passenger or a Pentagon employee. As we can see, it is not in it's original location; perhaps it was removed from an airline seat?

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That's a good point, David. I don't know. If Jim believes it was not of a passenger, then he could make a FOI request and ask if the image showed a passenger or a Pentagon employee. As we can see, it is not in it's original location; perhaps it was removed from an airline seat?

not to put too fine a line on it: and perhaps the decedent never was in a airline seat. Point is, shock imagery (such as in this thread), whether in or out of a court setting holds little sway with American populace. We're desensitized... Remember, all those 60's political assassinations, not to mention the fact--at the supper hour we dined regularly with the CBS News Hour and Uncle Walter Cronkite discussing the latest Vietnam body count (nightly) -- complete with combat footage, casualties included... so...

You'd get more mileage out of those shock photos if you could find an FAA crash investigator citing him: "Yep, based on my experience, and where it (the body) was located, appears that of a plane passenger (or building occupant, etc.)..."

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"Rescue crews were able to pull Calley's body from Flight 77's wreckage."

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/contentview.asp?c=73724

"When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/sept01/2001-09-14-pentagon-usat.htm

"Investigators have identified remains of 184 people who were aboard American Airlines Flight 77 or inside the Pentagon, including those of the five hijackers, but they say it is impossible to match what is left with the five missing people."

http://old.911digitalarchive.org/crr/documents/1276.pdf

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From Wikipedia with links:

Army troops from Fort Belvoir were the first teams to survey the interior of the crash site and noted the presence of human remains.[73] Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Urban Search and Rescue teams, including Fairfax County Urban Search and Rescue assisted the search for remains, working through the National Interagency Incident Management System (NIIMS).[73][74] Kevin Rimrodt, a Navy photographer surveying the Navy Command Center after the attacks, remarked that "there were so many bodies, I'd almost step on them. So I'd have to really take care to look backwards as I'm backing up in the dark, looking with a flashlight, making sure I'm not stepping on somebody".[75] Debris from the Pentagon were taken to the Pentagon's north parking lot for more detailed search for remains and evidence.[76

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_77#Remains

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