1950's CIA "Manchurian Candidate" Memo?

[William Kelly]

QUOTE(Greg Parker @ Nov 18 2006, 07:10 AM) *

Ashton, he may not have been oblivious to it, but Penfold's institute was at McGill, not the University of Montreal.

Ashton - Right, and while I've never been to Montreal, it appears to me on the map that McGill and the University of Montreal are only across Parc Mont Royal from each other, less than a mile. Each must find his own path through the CIA's maze of mirrors, but it's been my experience, in my wanderings, that they use proximate locations constantly in their tireless efforts at keeping their tracks covered and obfuscating connections. It disperses the attention of trackers in different directions and throws lots more "place names" into the swirling confusion that is their primary product.

Of course this does exactly what it's supposed to do, and as I said, no direct connection has been made between Hartogs and Penfield during this period. But the proximity, and an awareness of this as a favorite ruse is why I posted this about Hartogs and Penfield.

Fair enough.

Greg -There seems to have been more than one psych report from YH if you believe Florence Kelley. I'll try and find the newspaper article quoting her. Hartogs claimed this article is what jogged his memory on Oswald after the assassination. Trouble was, she quoted from a YH psych report which didn't match Hartogs' report obtained by the WC.

Ashton- Thanks. Yes, I have limited anecdotal information on this "twosie." If you can find the article I'd love to see it.

As soon as I can locate it, I'll provide the exact quotes from it. If I recall, it seemed to me at the time I read it, there was contradictory info as to her source on the report.

Greg - Whether or not Hartogs accurately reported "what went on", other health professionals in YH also wrote reports giving a similar picture. I do note that YH was painted as one of the better youth institutes by a former (many times) "guest" of that institute in the '50s.

Ashton - <SPIT!> They have plenty of "health professionals" and "former guests" of their mind-bending institutions in their pocket who will tell as many lies as needed, some of them for reasons I won't get into here since I don't like to gratuitously induce nausea.

Let me preface my response here by saying that I believe you are a valuable member of this forum - often providing new info and shart insight combined with great wit. With that in mind, how you conclude that all the evidence showing YH to be a "normal" institution is actually proof of the opposite is beyond my comprehension. Yes, both YH and Hartogs warrant close attention, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Here's some info on the guy you've just accused of possibly being in the pocket of the CIA: http://aalbc.com/authors/claudebrown.htm His book actually gives many accounts of what it was like in YH, and the types of "guests" they had.

Greg - Even though it may look like I disagree that YH and Hartogs are potential high yield investments in research time, that's far from the truth.

Ashton - No, I completely agree that all such factors, pro and con, should be aired and taken into account.

Good! Now we only have to agree on what's "pro" and what's "con"

Greg - Oswald's journey to Dealey Plaza imo, started during his time in NYC. Funny you should link Hartogs to Penfold through a university. I have him linked to another psychiatrist through the University of Frankfurt-am-Main. At least they both attended it at around the same time, and later would both live in NYC. As this research is ongoing and may have some significance in areas being looked into by others, I won't name him at this stage, but I'll toss out this teaser... he was closely associated with a member of Lyman Paine's inner circle.

Ashton - You have my undivided attention, so unless these "others" somehow have staked out a proprietary interest in the truth, I think it would be in the greater good to set forth the name.

The truth is, at this point in time, I can't prove the two psychiatrists knew each other (though I'be be flabbergastered if they didn't). Nor at this point can I prove it actually means anything if they did. Hopefully we all want the truth to come out. Sometimes that makes it prudent to hold back a little on providing info while research is ongoing so as to limit the possibility of /a/ scaring potential witnesses off and /b/ other researchers running interference. In my own mind, I have doubts that this particular offshoot from that other work will actually be used. If it's not, it won't mean it has no value at all. To help sort out what value it might have, it will be posted here.

Meanwhile, while you mull that over, and since the Paine name has come up, there is another curious intersection of the Paine contingent, Oswald, and the psychiatric underworld (but I repeat myself). That's with Dr. Wilhelm Kuetemeyer, one of the most curious cases in a stampeding herd of "curious cases."

Kuetemeyer has to have been a psychiatrist, having conducted "experiments on schizophrenics" prior to becoming involved in the plot to assassinate Hitler (ostensibly—that's a whole other story). Yet nowhere is he given the name he deserves, always being referred to by the euphimism "Professor of psychosomatic medicine." He is such a shadowy figure whose only connection to the scene seems to be through the equally smoky Volkmar Schmidt, whose "idea" was proposed to de Mohrenschildt for Oswald to meet the Paines.

And yet somehow, throught some mysterious method, somewhere, Kuetemeyer reportedly concocted a "psychological profile" of Lee Harvey Oswald. What a bizarre datum. How? Where? When?

These aren't rhetorical questions. If anyone has any further information it would be greatly appreciated.

And while the following begins to wander from the specific to the general, I am going to state here that we are in SCUBA gear now examing the below-the-water-line part of the iceberg. It is dark, hidden, and almost inconceivably massive, stretching away into black depths that never have been plumbed or viewed.

One of my idle wonderments is the comparison of the reports and evidences of abuses and atrocities we do have about CIA's mind-control projects and programs (and even that considerable mound, of course, only a fraction), versus the almost total vacuum that sits where the names of psychiatrists that had to have been planning and conducting it all for CIA should be. It's astounding.

And it's perhaps more astounding how very little anyone seems to notice this giant sucking hole in the record. It's almost as though people read about BLUEBIRD and MK-ULTRA, and somehow kind of figure that maybe a bunch of lay CIA bureaucrats and agents whose names they know must have been doing all the dirty work. It's almost funny in a very sad and even macabre way.

But one thing is certain: for everything CIA has coughed up about such crimes, nothing has been more jealously and scrupulously protected than their network of accommodating APA and AMA butchers. (I mean scientists and doctors, of course. A slip of the typing fingers.)

Thanks. Had forgotten about Kuetemeyer. Whilst Epstein reported on the Schmidt the connection, he is silent on any Oswald profile he may have done. Ditto Bartholomew. Ditto. Scott. The sole reportage of this profile seems to be in the so-called Unauthorised Bush Bio which is all over the net. No citation is proved and the authors themselves have dubious background connections. Our fellow member, Bill Kelly once interviewed Schmidt. Maybe he can be persuaded to post the transcript. I think Bill may have been searching for a Kuetemeyer - Dulles connection in that interview.

Sorry, I missed this thread too.

Here's the transcript of my conversation with Volkmar Schmidt.

BK

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2008/01...-interview.html