He knew Jack Ruby and had sex with Bertha Cheek?

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Some interesting testimony from petty crook and Ruby friend Robert Litchfield, hinting he had relations with Bertha Cheek, sister of LHO's landlady.

If true, this adds another layer, albeit thin, of connection between Ruby and Oswald.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever visit at her place?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, her apartment?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. When?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Oh, let's see, spasmodically from September to October and November of 1963.

Mr. HUBERT. In other words you met her----

Mr. LITCHFIELD. In September--I'm pretty sure it was, about the latter part of August or the first of September.

Mr. HUBERT. And you met her by simply being introduced to her by Sands at a bowling alley?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No; he told me she had planned on putting in a lounge and Bob had given her my phone number and she called me on the pretext that I might build it and run it for her.

Mr. HUBERT. So you went to see her then?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. And you went to her house?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; on Swiss.

Mr. HUBERT. You had never seen her before?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Never before that--she said she had seen me, but there was no recollection or no introduction prior to that time.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, what happened to the negotiations that you engaged in with her?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. It would be that I would have had to divorce my wife and had to have married her for any other further business to have been transacted.

Mr. HUBERT. If I'm not mistaken, isn't she an older woman than you are a man?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I believe she is--she's 30-something or 40-something.

Mr. HUBERT. And you are saying to us that she made it a condition?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. It wasn't a verbal condition--it was a obvious condition. It was a situation that was arising, let's say that.

Mr. HUBERT. And you perceived that you would have to marry her if this thing was to go forward?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. That, or divorce my wife.

Mr. HUBERT. But she did not say so?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You think she intimated it?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Let's say, from my past experience and knowledge of--worldly knowledge--I would assume this, that's being kind of tactful.

Mr. HUBERT. I was wondering if you could point to any events, since you can't point to any words that gave you that impression?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Without being too personal or intimate on my own actions or any actions other than hers, no; and I don't care to be.

Mr. HUBERT. All right, Did you know Jack Ruby?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; I knew Jack.

Mr. HUBERT. How did you meet him?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Jack used to own the Vegas Club and I used to go there quite a bit.

Edited September 17, 2006 by Mark Valenti

[Robert Howard]

Some interesting testimony from petty crook and Ruby friend Robert Litchfield, hinting he had relations with Bertha Cheek, sister of LHO's landlady.

If true, this adds another layer, albeit thin, of connection between Ruby and Oswald.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever visit at her place?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, her apartment?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. When?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Oh, let's see, spasmodically from September to October and November of 1963.

Mr. HUBERT. In other words you met her----

Mr. LITCHFIELD. In September--I'm pretty sure it was, about the latter part of August or the first of September.

Mr. HUBERT. And you met her by simply being introduced to her by Sands at a bowling alley?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No; he told me she had planned on putting in a lounge and Bob had given her my phone number and she called me on the pretext that I might build it and run it for her.

Mr. HUBERT. So you went to see her then?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. And you went to her house?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; on Swiss.

Mr. HUBERT. You had never seen her before?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Never before that--she said she had seen me, but there was no recollection or no introduction prior to that time.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, what happened to the negotiations that you engaged in with her?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. It would be that I would have had to divorce my wife and had to have married her for any other further business to have been transacted.

Mr. HUBERT. If I'm not mistaken, isn't she an older woman than you are a man?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I believe she is--she's 30-something or 40-something.

Mr. HUBERT. And you are saying to us that she made it a condition?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. It wasn't a verbal condition--it was a obvious condition. It was a situation that was arising, let's say that.

Mr. HUBERT. And you perceived that you would have to marry her if this thing was to go forward?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. That, or divorce my wife.

Mr. HUBERT. But she did not say so?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You think she intimated it?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Let's say, from my past experience and knowledge of--worldly knowledge--I would assume this, that's being kind of tactful.

Mr. HUBERT. I was wondering if you could point to any events, since you can't point to any words that gave you that impression?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Without being too personal or intimate on my own actions or any actions other than hers, no; and I don't care to be.

Mr. HUBERT. All right, Did you know Jack Ruby?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; I knew Jack.

Mr. HUBERT. How did you meet him?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Jack used to own the Vegas Club and I used to go there quite a bit.

My, you are catching on quick. You realize of course, that this area [and your other new topic] are, the same area that certain members of the Warren Commission felt were never adequately investigated, to the the point that they did not want to sign off on the dotted line when the investigation was completed.

[Guest Mark Valenti]

My, you are catching on quick. You realize of course, that this area [and your other new topic] are, the same area that certain members of the Warren Commission felt were never adequately investigated, to the the point that they did not want to sign off on the dotted line when the investigation was completed.

I think it's most important to examine the mundane, workaday facts of LHO and Ruby's life. Those are the details that will build to a tipping point, in my opinion. Their acquaintances, co-workers, neighbors, relatives, personal behaviors.

In pouring over testimony, books, theories, I believe the answer is there - somewhere - in plain sight. And I believe that answer will ultimately prove to be simple and obvious, as opposed to labyrinthian.

MV

[Guest Tom Scully]

http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol14/page95.php

The testimony of Wilbyrn Waldon (Robert) Litchfield II was taken at 1:35 p.m., on April 16, 1964,

Ron,

Sometime between 11/5 and 11/12, Wilbyrn Waldon (Robert) Litchfield II went to the Carousel for a meeting with Ruby, and Oswald was there waiting to see Ruby and met with Ruby first.

Wilbyrn Litchfield testified before the Warren Commission on April 16, 1964. (14H95). In his police affidavit of December 2nd, he had spoken of a man he thought looked like Oswald wearing a V-necked white sweater in the Carousel.

In his WC testimony, he was shown a picture of photographer Eddie Rocco (Armstrong exhibit 5302 in 19H36) and asked if that man looked the man he saw, whom he thought looked like Oswald. Litchfield said no.

If the interrogator has gone two pictures over, Litchfield might have had more to say.

William Crowe aka Bill DeMar testified on June 2, 1964 (15H96) that he had told people on Sunday November 24th that he had seen a man in the Carousel a week before the assassination that he thought looked like Oswald, who had been in the first row, and whom he had used in his memory act.

Crowe was shown a series of pictures that the interrogator referred to as Crafard exhibits 5205, 5206, 5212 and 5221, but were actually a series of Armstrong exhibits 5303 I through M (19H36 +)

Crowe was asked if the man up on the stage in 5303 J (19H37) looked like the man he thought was Oswald. Crowe said no.

Crowe was asked if the man in 5303 K (19H38) with his side facing the camera and not smiling looked like the man he thought was Oswald. Crowe said no.

Take a look at 5303 J (19H37) and 5303 K (19H38) and see if you don't see a man in a white V-necked white sweater.

These pictures were apparently taken in the Carousel in the first week of November, right when Litchfield said he was there.

Steve Thomas

I've got a couple of problems with what has gone down here, and probably my most justified reaction is to post my opinion that it is still not too late for someone to march into the editorial or publisher's office of the Dallas Newspaper and its successors and ask them if they are ever going to get around to practice REAL journalism? No story came out of these associations in '63 or '64, and certainly not in 2003. Keep it buried, exhibit no curiousity and probably not even give rise to any!

How about somebody....anybody, interviewing the people right under the Dallas "journalists' " noses?

A mother with an past association with the Navy, with Industrial Security?

Dallas Morning News, The : VEOLA F. DOW<br>Ex-News worker, ...

‎

$2.95 - Dallas Morning News - Feb 6, 2003

Services for Veola F. Dow, a former Dallas Morning News employee, were Wednesday at Grove Hill Funeral Home. Mrs. Dow, 94, died Jan.29 at Methodist Medical Center of a stroke. After graduating from Southern Methodist University in 1929, Mrs. Dow accompanied her father, a Methodist preacher, as he toured the country.He wrote songs, and she played the piano and sang, said her son, Henry Litchfield of Dallas.

Mrs. Dow taught in Dallas for about 15 years at Storey Middle School and Sunset High School. During World War II, she directed civilian personnel for the Navy at Southern Aircraft and North American Aviation. Mrs. Dow was the first woman in Texas to complete a federal Civil Defense Administration training course, her family said. "She was a pioneer for everything," said her granddaughter, Lindy Sharber of Talty, Texas. "When unions were first beginning, she made sure women had a say in that." Mrs. Dow headed the first women's advisory board for statewide civil defense. She also was Dallas' first coordinator of the Visiting Nurse Association's homemaker service, a program that assigned homemakers to households during family emergencies. She worked as a saleswoman in The News' classified department in the 1960s. Her first husband, Lindy Litchfield, also a former News employee, died in 1963. Mrs. Dow later remarried and divorced. In addition to her son and granddaughter, Mrs. Dow is survived by three other grandchildren and four great grandchildren.

I found Mrs. Dow's obit via this photo of her empty grave, using the birthdate to search SSDI.:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=litchfield&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=1963&GSdyrel=in&GSst=46&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=30552968&df=all&

Our subject of interest in this thread, did not die until 2005, in Albuquerque.

http://files.usgwarchives.org/tx/dallas/vitals/births/1933/dallb33e.txt

Litchfield Wilburn Waldon,Ii 6-14-1933 M Frances Viola De Edly Wilburn Waldon Litchfield Dallas

http://ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi

LITCHFIELD, WILBURN W 14 Jun 1933 27 Sep 2005 (V) 72 87110 (Albuquerque, Bernalillo, NM)

If journalists were not for 48 years, complicit in the cover up, I would not have to jump through such hoops. Two people are employees at the local newspaper, one a current employee when their son's name appears in the WC report, but no one at the newspaper notices or connects the name to the two employees or publishes anything related to this, ever? Note that Litchfield, Jr.'s name is omitted from his mother Veola's obit, as well. "Disappeared" for a reason, or just a lucky break for those opposed to disclosure?

Background from Dixie Dea, Robert Howard, and James Richards :

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10880&view=findpost&p=173699

Edited October 6, 2011 by Tom Scully

[Christopher Hall]

From the title of this thread, I thought that we were supposed to guess the forum member to which this intriguing question relates.

[Robert Howard]

From the title of this thread, I thought that we were supposed to guess the forum member to which this intriguing question relates.

To me Christopher, this thread's underlying salient area lies in the fact that Earlene Roberts and Bertha Cheek were sisters and adding to the intrigue was Bertha Cheek's

pre-assassination meeting with Ruby to buy his club, and Jess Lynch's mention that she rented to 2 Cubans circa 1958, 1959.

Allegedly there were Cuban's living in a shack behind 1026 N. Beckley...was that Tosh Plumlee who alleged that?

I have seen a lengthy document where Warren Commission attorneys actually consider the possibility, the way I interpreted the document that Oswald was set up for the assassination in a conspiracy, the Lafontaine's seem to put a spin on this memo, making the Cheek/Roberts area part of a conspiracy involving Oswald.

see Griffin Hubert memo to Rankin March 6, 1964

summary of this memo's salient points is reproduced in Oswald Talked footnote # 68, page 421.

Also from Oswald Talked

"Contacted by Mary [LaFontaine] in 1993, Bertha's daughter said that her mother was still living...she wouldn't give her mother's present name or whereabouts."

"Ten years later, Lawrence Reginald Miller [Terrell Armory weapons theft] would die at 5917 Gaston, at age forty-three. Records show the cause of death as a heart attack brought on by acute alcohol intoxication. It isn't clear whether Bertha still owned the apartment building when Miller died.

page 212.

At any rate, there are two things that I am going to post here, I hope they both get attention.

First, a few days ago, I discovered something rather odd, regarding Police Captain Will Fritz

No More Silence page 416

interview with L.D. Montgomery.

The following day, Monday, we successfully transferred Ruby to the county jail the way the other should have been handled: unannounced.

Captain Fritz made the decision. Captain Fritz at that time was living in an apartment out on Gaston Avenue.

Robert: when Fritz testified before the WC he simply said I live in Dallas, he was not asked his address

see

Mr. Mccloy.

And we have had Chief Curry on this morning, as I am sure you understand, and we would like to continue our investigation through you. We understand that you were in very direct contact with this problem of investigation, and I will ask you to stand and raise your right hand, sir.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. Fritz.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Will you state your name, please?

Mr. Fritz.

J. W. Fritz.

Mr. Ball.

Where do you live?

Mr. Fritz.

I live in Dallas.

Mr. Ball.

Could you tell us something about yourself; tell us where you were born and what your education is and what your training has been as a police officer?

Mr. Fritz.

I was born in Dublin, Tex., and lived there for several years. My father moved to New Mexico, and I grew up at Lake Arthur, N. Mex. And then I came back to Texas, and came to the police department in January of 1921, and have been there ever since.

Robert

If you will remember Bertha Cheek managed some properties from her Hillcrest Avenue address; when she testified before the

WC she ostensibly had or was going to turn over the list to the WC. As far as I know the contents of the list have never seen the light of day

in a JFK document. I have never seen an obit Bertha Cheek in Oswald Talked, Mary and Ray LaFontaine, if I am not mistaken made some

reference to her.....

Bertha Cheek....she is well known to anyone who follows the Forum, her meeting with Jack Ruby eventually brought her to testify before the Warren Commission

and her records of her properties, especially those on Gaston Avenue, gave me a very, in retrospect overly optimistic attitude that "sooner or later" the reference

"in 1958 or 1959 there were a couple of Cubans residing in one of her properties she rented on Gaston Avenue," would turn up by virtue of my digging through

various news databases, and/or some obscure Warren Commission document. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened. It would be wise to know, that Harry Olson

did rent from Bertha Cheek

Washington Post, The (DC) - April 21, 1984

Deceased Name: John Will Fritz , 87, the former head of the Dallas

John Will Fritz, 87, the former head of the Dallas Police Department's homicide and robbery bureau who led the investigation of President John F. Kennedy's assassination, died April 19 at his home here. The cause of death was not reported.

Mr. Fritz conducted the interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald, the accused assassin of the president. Oswald was shot to death by Dallas nightclub owner Jack Ruby.

In 1974, a letter was addressed to Captain Fritz after his 1970 retirement

from John Nichols to Will Fritz of 1 Oct 1974, with Attachments

The address was simply White Plaza Hotel, Dallas, Texas

The 1963 address for the White Plaza Hotel was 1933 Main Street

http://www.maryferre...110&relPageId=1

[W.H. Andy] Anderson to Manage White-Plaza Hotel;

Paper: Dallas Morning News; Date: 05-26-1946; Page: Page Eighteen; Location: Dallas, Texas

White-Plaza Purchased by Earlee Hotels

Paper: Dallas Morning News; Date: 08-15-1961; Page: 5; Location: Dallas, Texas

Opened in 1926 and formerly named the Hilton Hotel, the White-Plaza was built by the late George Loudermilk and operated by Conrad N. Hilton until 1939 when the name was changed from the Hilton to the White-Plaza Hotel.

Here is the link for Bertha Cheek's WC Testimony where she mentions the specific properties on Gaston she managed.

http://www.jfk-assas...l13/page382.php

So, the point is why would it be such a secret where Capt. J W Fritz lived,

and does the Gaston Avenue address, and, if correct, factor into Bertha Cheek's

properties?

Realistically being a high ranking homicide investigator for decades

in Dallas, would make one a lot of enemies, so it can't be assumed that there

is necessarily anything sinister about not including his address.

But in light of the fact that, as far as I know Bertha Cheek's rental history

for her properties, especially on Gaston Ave.,has never really been gone over

by anyone other than Warren Commission investigators, and I have spent

a few days trying to find one single book, article or document that references

his Gaston Ave. address it would be foolish to forget about it.

Of course, there is the possibility that there is just the appearance of smoke

and no fire, but you know what they say about assuming.....

Item 2

There was, according to William Manchester, three murders in Dallas on November 22, 1963...

1. President John F. Kennedy.....assigned the emergency room 24740, at Parkland Hospital.

2. Officer Jefferson Davis Tippit, body taken to Methodist Hospital AND Parkland Hospital

http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=388489

3. Unknown.

The public did not know for example that President Kennedy and Officer Tippit were not the only people killed in Dallas on November 22. At 10:40 that evening there was a third murder unrelated to the others. The victim, a thirty-two year-old woman was stabbed to death by her lover. In police language he "picked up a butcher knife and started cutting up on the deceased." She was pronounced dead at Parkland.

The Death of a President pg 414, by Manchester, William (1967)

Robert: As far as know, regarding Item 2, I have never seen a single reference to the third murder from any other source.

Not only that, the Dallas Morning News, didn't seem to cover this story.....Some might say, well, Manchester wrote, it was

unrelated to the others.

My response would be twofold;

1. Manchester also was totally convinced that Oswald was the quintessential lone nut, and a total failure, as a person, not to mention the assassin

of President Kennedy.

While that might seem cause for endorsement that the murder was unrelated to the others, the exact opposite is at least, a possibility.

2. I can't speak for anybody else, but I am literally embarrassed that almost 50 years after the assassination, no-one has looked into this.

Ask a criminal investigator if a third murder on November 22, 1963 could be important, and see what his response would be.....

Edited October 11, 2011 by Robert Howard

[John Dolva]

A1, Robert. If things bear out there will be a truckload of related matters to pursue and that could be a giant step to a solution.

[Robert Howard]

A1, Robert. If things bear out there will be a truckload of related matters to pursue and that could be a giant step to a solution.

John, I am always glad to hear from you. You are one of the vets of the Forum, and your presence here is a reminder to me that

I have someone who pays attention to what I post. I am sure I could have a better reputation, because of the fact that I sometimes

speculate out loud or wonder about something which leaves a bit of egg on my face, but I would rather try and fail than not even try.

I received a communication from Gary Mack regarding Fritz's residence at the time of the Kennedy assassination, he told me that

mary ferrell and others told him that Fritz resided at the White Plaza before, and at the time of the JFK assassination.

I still wonder why L.D. Montgomery said what he did.

I am still looking into the murder the night of the assassination.

See

The public did not know for example that President Kennedy and Officer Tippit were not the only people killed in Dallas on November 22. At 10:40 that evening there was a third murder unrelated to the others. The victim, a thirty-two year-old woman was stabbed to death by her lover. In police language he "picked up a butcher knife and started cutting up on the deceased." She was pronounced dead at Parkland.

The Death of a President pg 414, by Manchester, William

President Kennedy was assigned Emergency Room 24740

Governor Connally was entered three spaces below at Emergency Room 24743

ibid. page 182

If you can remain dispassionate when reading a book like Manchester's....you can sift through

and identify what is important, what is opinion and what are literary devices....

Here is another example of something else, I would be very interested in perusing....

page 42.....

On November 15, [1963] the Department of Justice had sent [Kenny] O'Donnell a confidential,

comprehensive report on Dallas......

[John Dolva]

Hey, who cares about reputation? Remember

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”

- Arthur Schopenhauer