Evan Burton

50 km final altitude.

I'm unsure, but closer still. Let me get back to you.

Latest LRO images, this time from the Apollo 12 site.

Even better images are due of other sites as the LRO orbit gets lower.

.yenool a si yug ehT .kcorc a tahW

Sorry Andy, but I can't read that because they banned my IP and I'm not even a member!

Don,

Are you happy with the answers given? Is there any clarification or further detail needed?

So, Jack - are you going to admit your error?

Nope - I didn't think so. Jack is repulsed by the thought that he is wrong, and therefore avoids ever admitting error. BTW - here is the latest image from the Apollo 14 site. Even better images will become available as the satellite settles into a lower orbit and passes over the Apollo landing sites. You can see the trails left by the astronauts footsteps and the Mobile Equipment Transporter, a 'cart' that was used only on the Apollo 14 mission:

A poster called 'Count Zero' said this on another board. It, too, deserves repeating here. It was an emotional response after a number of pages trying to get someone to listen to reason:

I'm offended by the whole persistent debate over an alleged "Moon Hoax"!

Tell the Greeks that the Acropolis is a fake. They built it in the early 19th century to con western European tourists (notice how no photographs of it exist before the 1840s). The Egyptians were cleaning-up with the pyramids they had built a few decades before, and the Greeks wanted some of that action.

Ha ha. Very funny.

Now keep after them about it. Tell them that they never had engineers good enough, never had artisans skilled enough to build any such architectural masterpieces. All they could do was pile up some marble to make it look like ruins. Tell them that this is easy to believe because their leaders are so corrupt and dishonest. Keep needling them about it. Speculate on how they faked the weathering, and how they buried manufactured pottery shards to fool archaeologists. No matter what evidence they produce, no matter what questions they answer, tell them that you are still skeptical. By inference, this should imply that they themselves are not intelligent enough to see through the ruse, or are just so full of their own pride that they are easily duped.

Do you see how completely, comprehensively insulting this is?

You say it's just speculation. Do you think it's fun to tear down the greatest achievement of human imagination, ingenuity and daring? Do you get your kicks by suggesting that heroes who put their lives on the line for their national honor are nothing more than life-long liars? Does it not bother you that you're saying the supreme effort of hundreds of thousands of people over more than a decade was nothing but a con?

Your idle speculation is not just robbing these people of their honor, their dignity and their pride in their accomplishment, you're robbing us all of our cultural heritage. America has done many great things in its 230 years, but it may never again reach that noble pinnacle of Apollo. We didn't go for conquest, or commercial gain. It wasn't just about beating the Russians (By the late 60s both sides had found that ballistic missile submarines were cheaper and more flexible than nukes in orbit or on the Moon). Our purpose was remarkably pure: We went to see if we could go.

Putting footprints on the Moon doesn't just say something about America; it speaks to all people. It redefines what is possible. We all want our children to succeed, to be something, to go further and accomplish more. We want the people we work with to be diligent and productive. We try to inspire and motivate them. We explain that study and hard work can pay-off. One photograph of Buzz Aldrin's footprint in the Sea of Tranquility says a lot about what human beings with drive and ingenuity and teamwork can do.

It proves it better than all the late-night, impassioned Internet BB posts ever written.

The historical record of Apollo is overwhelming - greater than anything you can glean from questions on a bulletin board. That America abandoned Apollo (and the spirit it engendered) is a travesty. To persistently maintain that it never happened in the first place is nothing short of despicable.

I was re-reading a book and this passage once again struck a chord with me. I thought it deserved recounting, and on this board:

"That we found this to be true of the Apollo Program seems to surprise some people. But what, after all, should one expect? A small group of men were told in 1961 to put a man on the Moon by the end of the decade. They worked indefatigably for eight years, recruiting thousands of fellow workers along the way. They surmounted obstacles, overcame setbacks, and achieved their goal. Should we be surprised that the people who were able to do this tend to have been talented rather than incompetent, honest rather than venal, cooperative rather than selfish?"

Why indeed.

Yes, Jack, Apollo really did happen.

A number of the fellas I have spoken to who served there have a similar opinion. In general people don't want the taliban, and are happy for the things the coalition is doing there... but they also see the terrible ****ups, and the corruption, and wonder which is better - the devil they know....

http://www.abidemiracles.com/

I like this little bit:

The End of Criminal Slavery Is At Hand

DISTRIBUTED TO: NASA LIST

Gentlemen:

I am here merely as a spokesperson of the Nebadon Council at the Galaxy Center, to inform you of consequences of your [NASA's] acts of violence namely:

* using space-based weapons and chemtrails to attack and destroy incoming ships indiscriminately.

* bombs and aggressions against the populace of Mars, your own Moon, Saturn and Jupiter;

* using biologicals against your own Asians and Blacks on your own world;

* using depleted uranium armaments in staged and serial wars against your own soldiers;

* using fluoride and chlorine against your own populations in human water systems;

* using polluted and genetically altered seeds and grains to destroy this planet's fertility;

* the methodical and premeditated pollution of oceans, skies, water tables and human families.

NASA is the kernel where the "Colonel" operates, hidden; however, he no longer matters. Enough is enough genocide, deceit, violence and slavery, for one small planet to endure.

This rebellion began when ONE Reptilian hybrid dared to undermine the Contract between two Parties, a couple vested in uplifting human DNA, and their Grantor, by the use of deceit and twisted words.

These final outcomes which to which we are witnesses are being done in the clear light of day due to the fact that leadership speaks one set of words, while they perform yet another agenda of over-control and exploitation.

It is the same conflict, now 200,000 years on. And the price at this point, is this planet's survival.

I will not burden you with how the people from other worlds--where there are no oceans, no mountains, no vistas, no parade of seasons, no wildlife, no space to move about--how they feel about Terra's leadership destroying this gorgeous planet out from under its peoples.

At this time, an Armada of 144,000 fully armed light and heavy cruisers has embarked on a course to this planet; and these will become visible north of the system's ecliptic around and about August 19th in the northern hemisphere.

That is the deadline for NASA's complete submission and confession of crimes against this solar system.

What will follow on, that confession received or not, will be the physical conquest of this planet by a number of Galactic races [infuriated by barbaric, mercenary and ruthless behavior of this planet's leadership] until Peace is restored -- one way or another. [believe me, the Galaxy's methods are NOT your methods. Ours work.]

Operating orders are to take out all Orion Constellation ships, Gray ships, and US/CIA/NASA ships and bring order to Washington D.C., the City of London and the City of Rome. It is presumed that China, Indo-China, Africa and India will be vested in negotiations also.

The English-speaking nations will be handled as a block, out of the recognition that the New World Order is derived out of the Round Table of London England, as such the center of the Fascist empire. [English-speaking negotiators of the Quaker ideology will be acceptable to the Galactic Council. No secular negotiators will be given to serve.]

Location for the trials and disembarking point for emissaries and ambassadors will be Tehran, Iran. Our hosts will be B'a'hais who are neutrals in such matters.

A Regency will be administered until war crimes trials are concluded for: serial wars profiteering by banking loan sharks; genocide against Blacks and Asians; depleted uranium recycling; oil-industry profiteering & pollution; destruction of the seas; bio-weapons research and development; and prosecuting for the families of the 911 false-flag attack against New York City, using diverse peoples as scapegoats.

Analysis of the Suspected 9-11 Criminal Co-conspirators :: Of the 103 people named on the list of Suspected 9-11 Criminal Coconspirators there are:

* 19 current or former members of George W. Bush's White House

* 4 current or former members of Congress

* 6 current or former FBI agents or officials

* 6 current or former CIA agents or officials

* 5 current or former officials of New York

* 10 current or former high-ranking USG military commanders

* 12 current or former USG officials (not included above)

* 11 current or former members of PNAC

* 12 consultants, lobbyists think tanks members (non-PNAC)

* 12 engineers

* 30 current or former corporate executives

* 3 senior "statesmen"

* 5 members of the Bush family

* 1 Canadian

* 1 Pakistani

* 2 Arabs ; 2 Brits;

* 4 known or suspected Mossad agents;

* 13 people who hold "dual citizenship" ); and

* 17 Israelis (including those with "dual citizenship" noted).

That case must be brought to trail, because it brings forward the extent of this, the perfidy and infamy of Annunaki Fascist ideology.

NASA has brought matters to this point by their procedure of incompetent tools, of utilizing inept cameras to view and film other worlds--cameras limited by poor resolution, flat perspective, dirth of color, "pitch, "roll" and "yaw" faults never corrected to make details clear and coherent.

NASA's insistence on the LIE that this planet is the ONLY inhabited planet in this system springs forth from the dogma and doctrine of Orion Annunaki secrecy and separatism, spawned and cultivated in the Fascist caste systems of the Illuminati mindset by the Project Paper Clip infusion of German Nazis into NASA and the CIA after WWII left Fascism in charge of ET intelligence.

Such egregious erroneous and misstatements of fact by NASA down through sixty years of space research leaves us the Galaxy aghast at the temerity of scientists who repudiate science en toto, in favor of dogma and lies.

NASA apparatus executives will be held accountable for the consequences and costs of aggressions against innocent and helpless populations by NASA bombs and excursions, including the Rover-caused avalanche at Victoria Crater which killed scores, the subsequent military incursions into Mars [unauthorized] and aggressions against Jupiter and Saturn, as if these are merely target points for NASA bombs.

The end of the scourge of Not-See Fascist Aggression is coming. By August 22 2009, it will all be over.

So be it.

Very sincerely.

Emily Cragg, temporary negotiator for Nebadon,

webmaster, www.abidemiracles.com

A lady who has NO link to reality at all! I can't wait to see what happens between 19 - 22 AUG. Let me guess - we'll be given a reprieve.

Dammit, I say NO! Listen Nebadon, we've put up with enough of your kind coming round here and talking big... NUKE ME, I say! Give it to me with all barrels, sunshine. No mercy! Terminate with extreme prejudice.

(maybe that will provoke them enough)

The American replied that the facts did not matter.

Bit of a thread derail, but I have to relate this. Some people on the Defence newsgroups were talking about how journalists get so many details wrong - calling an Army helicopter an Air Force helicopter (our air force does not have any helos), calling a large Air Force transport aircraft an Army aircraft. One of the people on the board said their daughter was doing media at uni, and had spoken to her lecturer about some reports which were used in class. The lecturer had made up the news articles, but had got names wrong, titles wrong, descriptions wrong, etc. The lecturer told her that "... minor facts are unimportant, people don't care about them, and it's more important to make sure the story reads well".

Are these both 767 engines?

Jack

Yes.

The Watergate interview was on The History Channel in Australia last night. It will probably be repeated again in the near future.

Terry - it's unlike you to resort to name calling. You're better than that. Attack the argument, not the poster.

Removed offensive label from Terry's post here.

Some people claim he's a clone of an ancient Egyptian pharaoh. Serious.

And of course you can ring ships at sea. The system is called INMARSAT. A commercial system, but even Australian warships have it installed. Great to be able to literally ring up the Ops Room aboard ask ask a question like 'when will you be finishing the current exercise?'... and this was in the days before mobile (cell) phones. Expensive, though. When I was in joint ops back in '95, it was $12 per minute. I don't imagine it's any cheaper now.

I think it's a wonderful story, and sort of suits my simplified financial thinking. I can see an immediate flaw, though. What if the feed supplier paid off his bill to a larger merchant in another town? Immediately there is a problem.

Is that justification for a world economy? Do we have a world economy? As I have said on numerous occasions, I am a financial numpty and anyone else is more qualified than me to speak on these matters.

You make a good point Evan.

This is especially true in regards to such mega store businesses as Wall Mart, who create a few dozen jobs, but then put a half dozen small, local, family businesses - out of business, and they take all of their profits out of the community, out of the state.

Why not spend a few more bucks and buy from the neighborhood hardware store, pharmacy, sporting goods, deli, etc., and keep your neighbors in business?

BK

Bill,

I don't have a clue, but what you say makes sense to me. I try to buy from my indy grocer. I try to buy fuel from an indy outlet. If I can keep a local business employed, I'll do so.

I think it's a wonderful story, and sort of suits my simplified financial thinking. I can see an immediate flaw, though. What if the feed supplier paid off his bill to a larger merchant in another town? Immediately there is a problem.

Is that justification for a world economy? Do we have a world economy? As I have said on numerous occasions, I am a financial numpty and anyone else is more qualified than me to speak on these matters.

Richard Nixon supposedly telephoned the Apollo 11 astronauts from the Oval Office. My question is: how did he do that?

My recollection is that Nixon talked to the astronauts after they landed, while they were still in quarantine (in case they brought back some deadly form of lunar life). They conversed via TV hookup. I remember seeing them talk on TV.

As for the landing being a hoax, I'll consider that possibility when someone explains how NASA came up with rocks that are 4.5 billion years old. They certainly were not found on Earth.

Ron,

Nixon did talk to them on the carrier HORNET, and in person, but there was the famous 'phone call' on the Moon.

Two snippets come to mind about this.

Firstly, IIRC, Aldrin actually took a leak in his suit during the call. They wore specialised 'nappies' just for this purpose. Buzz needed to take a leak and the interruption to their surface activities provided just the opportunity (they weren't told in advance about the call).

Secondly - and I don't know if this is true or not but it supposedly comes from Aldrin himself - when they were in quarantine on the HORNET, Buzz got a little stir crazy after a couple days. The sailors on the HORNET were prevented from 'gawking' at the quarantine facility, being stopped by a Marine on guard. One sailor was walking past went he heard tapping. He looked over, and saw Buzz at the window, beckoning him over and pointing to the phone handset. The Marine guard was nowhere to be seen, so the sailor walked over and picked up the phone. Buzz quickly explained he was tired of the company of his crew, and frankly bored of talking nothing but the mission. Would the sailor talk to him for a while? What was the sailor's job on board? Was he married? Did he have kids? The sailor began to chat with Aldrin when the Marine guard appeared from around the mobile quarantine facility. He saw the sailor, and immediately motioned him away from the window. He picked up the phone handset and apologised to Aldrin for the sailor disturbing him! The last thing the sailor saw was a forlorn looking Aldrin at the window!

Hi Don!

No, it has not been covered before. The phone call was certainly no technical challenge. It simply involved patching the phone call from Nixon into the communications circuit at Houston. From there, it was simply another radio transmission.

I can provide some more technical detail on how transmissions went from Earth to the Moon and the astronauts, if that's what you'd like.

Evan, I'm waiting....

You are a moderator, too. So moderate where you believe it is required, and then list the action taken on the pinned area at top of the page.

Congratulations!

Bill,

Sibrel also some type of a religious bent though that could have been all a fake. I don't believe he is a "disinfo" - he's just a low-life.

The majority of those people (the 45%) simply do not have all the facts available to them. Some, though, will always believe they were faked regardless of the massive amount of evidence to show otherwise.

But then again, I think everyone knows my opinion of "moon hoaxers"!

Evan, I was watching a Moon hoax doc last week with Jay Windley in it, and there was a hoax guy living on a cat sanctuary somewhere in Texas, can't remember his name, but he was clinically certifiable.

First off, Bart Sibrel isn't a "conspiracy researcher," but another animal entirely.

In addition, 45% of the people of the USA don't believe we put a man on the moon and it was a hoax, and they all can't be clinically certifiable.

At first I just thought that the whole UFO, Aliens in our midst, moon landing hoax, etc. were products of a Psyop meant to distract from the U2 and new weapons programs, but now I think they go much deeper, into the Nazi Paperclip project, NASA, and the Kennedy assassination.

I think Jim Hougan is right when he speculates that there is a psyop behind these people, the purpose of which is to confuse others and discredit those who study such things.

While Bar Sibrel isn't one of them, I like what Gore Videl said, he isn't a conspiracy theorists, but a "Conspiracy Analyst."

BK