Mark Stapleton

No, I certainly won't ackowledge that the US did not bomb innocent Syrians. I would not be surprised if the British were part of the operation, despite the fact it in no way softens my stance on US Imperialism, but I would prefer to confirm that fact with my sources rather than yours. I am from Sydney, Australia. Like John Simkin, I am deeply ashamed that my Government also supports US Imperialism and I also condemn it without reservation. Will that be all, sir?

I already said I'm not getting into a slanging match. I'll let those who read this thread make up their own minds. But it seems that I''m not the only one ranting and raving about America: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/10/30-4 Syria Puts US Embassy Under Guard as Tens of Thousands Join Protest Troops carrying batons and shields are stationed in Damascus as crowds decry American 'terrorist' raid on border by Haroon Siddique and agencies Hundreds of Syrian riot police surrounded the US embassy in Damascus today as tens of thousands of protesters gathered nearby to denounce a US raid that killed eight people near the Iraqi border. The crowds converged on Youssef al-Azmi square, about a mile from the embassy - which was closed for the day because of security concerns. Troops wearing helmets and carrying batons and shields took up positions around the embassy and the adjacent US residence building. Two fire engines were parked nearby. There were no signs of violence as protesters formed circles and danced traditional dances "America the sponsor of destruction and wars," read one banner, as protesters waved national flags and pictures of the Syrian president, Bashar Assad. "We will not submit to terrorism," read another banner. Hussam Baayoun, a 20-year-old university student, said the US raid was a "criminal act". "We want the Americans to stop their acts of terrorism in Syria, in Iraq and the rest of the world," he said. The Syrian government has demanded a US apology for the attack in the eastern border community, which it says left eight civilians dead. It has threatened to cut off cooperation on Iraqi border security if there are more raids on its territory. Syrian security around the embassy is usually tight and Americans in the country are generally made to feel welcome but when the US invaded Iraq protesters attacked the embassy. The American school has been shut for the day. The Syrian government has ordered the school to shut down - this is expected within a week - and the immediate closing of the American cultural centre linked to the embassy. In Washington, a state department deputy spokesman, Robert Wood, said yesterday that the White House was considering how to respond to the order to shut the cultural centre and American school. He stressed that the US expected the Syrian government to "provide adequate security for the buildings". The US embassy warned its citizens in Syria to be vigilant. There has been no formal acknowledgment of the raid from Washington, but US officials speaking on condition of anonymity have said it killed Badran Turki al-Mazidih, a top al-Qaida figure who operated a network smuggling fighters into Iraq. An Iraqi national, he also uses the name Abu Ghadiyah. Washington lists Syria as a state sponsor of terrorism and has operated sanctions since 2004. In recent months Damascus has been trying to end years of global isolation. Assad is seen as less hardline than his father, the previous president. US accusations that Syria is not doing enough to prevent foreign fighters from crossing its borders into Iraq remain a sore point in relations. Syria says it is doing all it can to safeguard its long, porous border. Looks like you have a major PR problem on your hands. Good luck with that.

There are a few misrepresentations of what I said in your post above but I'm not going to linger on them because a slanging match doesn't get us anywhere. Suffice to say you will continue your belief that America's actions are justified and I'll have to settle for my perverted cartoonish view of things. btw, did you read Ron's post? I fully agree with it.

I can see that you and I have a fundamental disagreement on this, Bill. Abu al-Ghadia obviously had form and terrorism is a poor career choice but I see people like him as largely a product of America's own making. When he was growing up, how many times did he witness members of his own and extended family being killed by Israeli or American attacks? Which brings me to the central point (one you have yet to address)--it doesn't matter how many al-Ghadia's or bin-Laden's you kill because more will always spring up. TF-88 can pat themselves on the back, go back to Headquarters for de-briefing and cocktails, and boast to the world about the great job they've done. But while America remains an occupying force, while it murders innocents in pursuit of the guilty, while it supports the brutal repression of Palestine, the multi-headed Hydra will just grow another head to replace guys like al-Ghadia. It locks in an eternal conflict but apparently many Americans have too much crude hubris to see or give a dam. And you also can't afford it any more---America's broke, remember? You need to see Team America, twice.

Bring on the war crimes trials.

Has Obama already indicated this or is this an educated guess?

The bombing of Syria was clearly an act of war. Americans should ask themselves how they would react if any country bombed their territory. Lucky for the world (and Obama) the Syria did not declare war on the United States. What else can Bush try to get the Republicans elected? He probably realised it is too late to do anything to help McCain now. However, Bush will remain president for 12 more weeks. He is no longer accountabe to American electors and he can do what he likes. Some presidents have used this time wisely. For example, Ronald Reagan in January 1989, upset the Jewish lobby by recognizing the PLO as the representatives of the Palestinian people. In the dying days of his administration, George Bush put US forces in Somalia and gave pardons to his mates involved in the Iran-Contra conspiracy. Clinton spent the final weeks of his time as president to get a peace deal with Israel and Palestine. What will George Bush do? Probably, he will do the same as his father. Whereas he left Clinton to deal with the foreign policy disaster of Somalia, he will probably cause Obama problems in Iran. As Jonathan Freedland recently pointed out: "Bush may be thinking of a parting gift more in keeping with the record of the last eight years. He and Cheney might decide, what the hell, we have one last chance to whack Iran - and let the new guy clear up the mess." Will they go out with a bang or a whimper? Definitely worth mulling over. I tend toward the latter because provoking an Iranian war would just be too transparent. The world is watching. Europe, China and Russia won't like it and America is in a bad bargaining position at the moment. And despite what the media allows us to see and hear, I really think the ranks of the politically illiterate are shrinking. But of course you never know when Texas gamblers, Zionists and Neocons get together, they live in a bubble. In regard to your first paragraph, I share your amazement. While watching their military attack nation after nation, Americans stare into space like lovesick cows.

Yeah. Team America is one of my favorite films. Maybe in the top three. Stone and Parker set out to offend as many people as possible but it's just so screamingly funny. And now.........................Mister Arek Borwin. p.s. freedom costs a buck o five.

No, I don't get the message at all. Who the hell annointed the US to be the world's police? You don't have the right to roam the globe in pursuit of your enemies, real or imagined, mowing down civilians in the process. What #### arrogance. How would you like it if the forces of another country--from the other side of the world no less--regularly killed US citizens in pursuit of shadowy enemies? Furthermore, such bloodlust only perpetuates the endless cycle of bloodshed. The more civilians you kill, the more new terrorists are recruited. It will never end. There's no glorious victory waiting for you, just war and death. I hope Obama gets America out of Iraq and Afghanistan and starts attending to the needs of US citizens--and stops waging wars on behalf of its so-called allies.

Wait a minute. Both of these incursions were US attacks on al Quada units who coordinated across border attacks on US forces and then retreat into Syira and Pakistan. While I don't think the USA should be in Iraq at all, both Syria and Pakistan are ostensibly safe harbors for those who attack US forces, so they are fare game, as far as I'm concerned. If Syria and Pakistan don't want US forces to violate their soverignty, they shouldn't allow al Quada to violate their soverignty either. Bill Kelly http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-New...tack_Carried_Ou Remember Poncho Villa!, Muhammad Omar and Abu Ghadiya. Look out Osama Bin Laden. Ah, you've got to be kidding me, Bill. That would mean the US could pre-emptively strike any other country, and always claim they were chasing Al queda. Anyway, where's the proof that justifies such a deadly strike? Down the drain with the WMD's probably. Civilian casualties don't seem to matter to blinkered Yanks. They're only ragheads after all.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=10738 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=10737 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=10735 The recent US helicopter attack in Syria, near the Iraq border, and the missile attack by US drones in Pakistan has caused outrage in those countries. The White House has remained silent, as has the cowardly Western media. The combined death toll was about 34. The US considers itself above the rule of law and continues to violate the sovereignty of other nations with impunity. In this regard they share a common trait with Israel. Indeed, it's clear they are working in tandem, most likely with some larger strategy in mind. One would hope they are not setting a precedent for an unprovoked attack on Iran--the US/Israel axis of evil is clearly itching for a war with Iran--with the tired old 'war on terror' line as their flimsy but ever reliable excuse. Iran shares land borders with seven countries, including Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan so it's possible the US might send in Team America for another attack close enough to the Iranian border to provoke an Iranian military response. This is what the Bush regime, and especially Israel, dearly want. Bring on the war crimes trials.

I think the two Mark Lane books, 'Rush To Judgement' and 'A Citizen's Dissent' are the best grounding for assassination newbies who are after the basic facts.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=10698 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=10670 It's hard to believe it's really happening. The eastern European countries, whom experts predicted would escape the global meltdown, are starting to fall like dominoes. Hungary hopes an IMF loan will stave off collapse while Latvia, Lithuania and others wait on death row. Their problem is heavy reliance on credit from international lending institutions, which has now evaporated. Their currencies are in freefall. Ukraine's stock market has lost 75% of its value in a year. Even Russia is in trouble, despite--and because of--it's status as a net energy exporter. The slowdown with its resultant fall in commodity prices including oil, has caused a drastic revenue shortage. Russia relied on American-led global consumerism more than it realised. The potential for social dislocation throughout Europe boggles the mind. As has been noted here and elsewhere, it's the end for free market capitalism, especially the extreme variety formerly practised by Wall Street. The lunacy of a dogma which rewards greed and punishes honesty is now abundantly clear. The recent public denunciation of greed by the American political establishment as the root cause of these problems is a huge belly laugh. I would guess the US political and power establishment has already been told that the rest of the world wants Obama elected full stop. This should put an end to any last ditch plans for vote rigging or false flag stunts by the GOP and their backers.

Off the top of my head-seriously-I would say Nicklaus, Watson, Woods and Player. I know Arnie Palmer never won a PGA.

Come off it, John.

Yes, I noticed this too. While Obama often turned to face McCain, the latter rarely reciprocated. Also, McCain's tone was condescending, regularly implying that Obama 'didn't understand' or 'shows naivete'. It was quite a dismissive and insulting display from McCain, imo. For me the most nauseating part was when McCain cited Reagan as some kind of role model for great Presidency. What an astonishingly inappropriate comment, holding up the pinup boy of Wall Street at the same time as Wall Street was in the process of bringing America to its knees. McCain lavished praise on all the usual groups, appeared to defend the absurd orthodoxy of 'not speaking to our enemies' and made me sick with his teary-eyed declaration that he loves all veterans. McCain was pathetic.

A McCain no-show would mean he forfeits any hope of the Presidency. This happened in Australia in the 1983 election when incumbent PM Malcolm Fraser refused to debate Labor Party Leader Bob Hawke. The Labor Party then ran damaging commercials with a narrator asking questions to an empty chair.

Great DeFazio vid, Terry. Paulsen got a 50 million bonus in 2006 and Wall Street gave itself 60 BILLION in bonuses. Incredible. I think some people might be asked to return the loot.

I think you're right, Terry. The free market system is disintegrating and we might all go with it. What a circus the bailout summit turned out to be and so much for the authority of Bush and McCain. It's going to be a fiesty debate, if McCain shows up. Now Bush is bringing a combat brigade back from Iraq to 'support of civilian authority'. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=10341

Because you have been given the privilege of living in God's country, Ron. This is the system America tries to export (often with force) to the unenlightened masses around the globe.

It looks like there might be trouble with getting the bailout package through the Congress: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/3073543...al-markets.html The wording is too loose and the election is only about 40 days off. The consequence of stalling is a lockdown of the finanacial system as credit evaporates. The consequence of its passage will mean homeowners (and the rest of the population) take the pain of the asset writedowns and economic readjustment. Not very palatable either way. It's times like these, surely a national emergency, that Americans must regret electing a buffoon as President. Meanwhile, this analyst doesn't like the Greenback's chances, claiming it is backed by bananas: http://www.presstv.ir/Detail.aspx?id=70069...ctionid=3510302 Finally, it seems that the economic crisis has forced the US to suspend its pernicious foreign policy agenda, at least for now. The members of the European US alliance have now cancelled talks aimed at increasing sanctions on Iran: http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=70404...ionid=351020101 Could be a sign of things to come.

It looks like in the short term at least, the future prosperity of American citizens rests on the value of the dollar. The signs are not good. http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff09232008.html September 23, 2008 What Nobody's Saying The Bailout Will Kill the Dollar By DAVE LINDORFF What nobody in the corporate media is mentioning amid all the blather about the $700-billion Paulson bailout proposal is the impact it will have on the US dollar. We are told that this huge gift to the financial sector—the assumption, at top dollar, of all the bad debt they’ve piled up--will be at taxpayer expense, but that’s only the half of it. (Really only the quarter of it because since the US government is technically bankrupt already, spending more than it takes in each year, all that money will be borrowed, and will be added to the national debt, meaning that just as the real cost of the $500-billion Iraq War is closer to $2 trillion, the real cost of the $700 billion bailout will be more like $1.5-2.5 trillion.) But besides the direct bill handed to taxpayers for this gigantic con, there is the fact that adding that much to the national debt is also going to drive the dollar down precipitously against foreign currencies. We’re already seeing that happen, even while they’re just talking about the bailout. The dollar is falling against all major currencies—the Euro, the Yen, the Renminbi and the British pound. And it will continue to fall as the details of the bailout come out. This will add to already powerful pressures in countries like Saudi Arabia and China, which hold huge quantities of US dollars and US dollar-denominated debt, to shift out of dollars and into other currencies—particularly the Euro and the Yen. Last week, an article in China’s People’s Daily, which like Pravda in the old Soviet Union, is the official voice of the leadership in China, called for just such a move. Russia is also calling for an end to the dollar as the underpinning of the global economy. For some years now, many economists have been predicting an end to the dollar as the world’s reserve currency, but this latest plan by the US Treasury will push such a shift forward from “some day” to “now.” As long as the dollar has been the reserve currency—the currency in which key commodities like gold or oil were priced, and the currency that exporting nations stocked in their treasuries as a store of value – it was protected against collapse. But once it loses that status, there will be nothing to prop it up any longer, and it will quickly slide to a value that it deserves. We got an inkling of what is going to happen today, as crude oil prices leapt in the short time it took me to research and write this essay (less than an hour!) by 25%, the biggest jump in the history of the oil market. This timely vindication of my point was purely a move caused by loss of confidence in the dollar. There was no oil supply disruption. In fact, demand for oil has been sinking as the economic crisis grows. Oil producers and traders simply realized that the dollar is going poof, so they radically jacked up the cost of oil in dollars. If you want to see what where the dollar is headed, look to the currencies of the debtor nations—countries like Mexico or perhaps Mozambique. A nation that makes almost nothing, and that imports most of its needs, cannot have a strong currency. This might not matter much if we had a functioning domestic economy, where people could find the goods and services they needed without turning to sources from abroad. A big country like the US could simply turn inward and function on by its own domestic economic standards. I remember back when the former Soviet Union was in a state of economic and political free fall in the early and mid 1990s, the currencies of the constituent countries, like Russia, Ukraine and Belarus had had collapsed to virtual worthlessness on the international market. A Byelorussian friend, an engineering professor from Minsk, living and working near me in China at the time, explained that although when he traveled the world, he felt like a pauper, things weren’t so bad back home Belarus, where he and his family would go in the summer. “My apartment only costs a few dollars a month to rent,” he explained, “and our food is bought on the local market using rubles, so it is very affordable.” The same was true for other needs, like clothing and books for school, he explained. The only problem was buying gas for his Russian Volga. “Gas,” he explained, “is priced as an international commodity, so it takes me one month’s wages in Belarus to buy the gas to drive once to and from our country dacha.” You can start to see the problem. Since agriculture has been killed off in most of the US, in favor of giant agribusiness enterprises situated in the western part of the country and some parts of the Midwest, most people elsewhere will not have local produce available, and the cost of transporting food from California to places like New York or Pennsylvania will be prohibitive once the dollar collapses, since oil is priced internationally. Meanwhile, goods like TV sets, computers, phones, cars (or at least the key components of cars), clothing, etc., are no longer even made in the US, and will thus be completely unaffordable. As for the service jobs that are supposed to have replaced our old manufacturing sector, no one will be interested in buying what they’re offering, because they’ll be scrimping just to buy the key staples they need to survive, so of course joblessness will soar. Eventually, of course, entrepreneurially minded people will begin establishing local farms again where they once flourished generations ago, and small factories will be built to provide key essentials, but all this will take time, and will have to cater to a market of people operating at a much lower standard of living. The banking sector, meanwhile, which is the proximate cause of this monumental disaster, won’t mind any of this, for it will continue operating on the international stage, shifting its focus to lending money (no longer dollars, though), to growing economies in Asia and Latin America and eastern Europe. And this is what, in truth, the “rescue” of Wall Street is all about. It’s not about saving Main Street, as Paulson claims. Main Street, under the bailout, is toast. It’s about helping the banks and investment banks and insurance companies that brought on this crisis to ride it out in style, their astronomical losses bankrolled or absorbed by the American public, so that they can shift their operations overseas and continue with their rape and pillage of the global economy. The US will be left behind, a smoking ruin, with Americans, like Weimar Germans before them, going shopping with wheelbarrows full of worthless green paper to exchange for a few days’ groceries. DAVE LINDORFF is a Philadelphia-based journalist and columnist. His latest book is "The Case for Impeachment" (St. Martin's Press, 2006 and now available in paperback edition). His work is available at www.thiscantbehappening.net