Mark Stapleton

Hi Larry, Great account of the Marshall murder and its wider ramifications. I hope something more can come out of all this.

I agree with these sentiments. The problem is that the political system in the U.S. (and many other countries) is CORRUPT. While corporations are allowed to donate to political parties this will always be so. For example, in the U.S., the pharmaceutical industry has a lobbyist attached to every single Congressman, hence cheaper, generic (and safe) drugs will often be denied its citizens, sacrificed on the altar of shareholder returns. Once a listed pharmaceutical's patent goes past its expiry date, the industry often lobbies its politicians to prohibit it, thereby eliminating competition from others who may wish to produce it at a cheaper price. You won't read about examples like this in the mainstream media. I should point out that my views don't make me a raving communist. I believe a healthy corporate sector is essential to the economic well being of every country. The Soviet communist regime with it's absence of a genuine corporate sector was a disaster for it's long suffering people. However, when the corporate sector owns the political process lock, stock and barrel, and the media as well, then it's time to worry. This is why I am a great fan of what JFK stood for. From what I've read about the man, he seemed genuinely interested in the welfare of America's citizens. A philanderer--yes. Riding to power on the back of daddy's money--sure (although it wasn't old Joe who stood on icy street corners or ventured into noisy bars to introduce himself). JFK knew that giving a flat 27.5% tax deduction to oil billionaires was unjust, engaging in foreign conflicts so arms manufacturers could make a killing couldn't be justified by history and mega wealthy people avoiding tax by exploiting loopholes had to be confronted. Because his family was wealthy, he was able to resist the attempts by the powerful lobbies to persuade him to act on their behalf. This, IMO, got him killed. Since JFK, the powerful corporate lobbies and the U.S. Government's interests have converged to such an extent that the incumbent is just a spokesman for these forces.

On the cover of my copy of Posner's "Case Closed" there's a picture of JFK and Jackie in the back of the limo. Seated in the foreground is Governor Connally looking more nervous than I've ever seen a man look. It's a very useful book---I use it as a doorstop.

I agree with Ryan's comments. To the casual observer, it would seem ridiculous for Connally to place his and his wife's lives in such danger, therefore he couldn't have known of the plot. But "they're going to kill us all" seems like a strange thing to say. If the shots were a complete surprise, wouldn't he be more likely to say something like, "what the ####, get down there's a shooter" or something similar? Maybe he expected, as Ryan suggests, a pistol shot or clean rifle shot on JFK or possibly the other theory is plausible--that both he and LBJ expected a later hit for JFK? I don't really believe the latter because LBJ was pretty determined to get Governor Connally back there with him and Senator Yarborough up in the shooting gallery with JFK. Anyway, back to Tricky Dickie.

John, They must be joking!

Fascinating information about Robert Anderson. Is the article online? I think I have found another member of the Suite 8F Group. His name is John Tower. He was born in Houston (later moved to Dallas). The key members of the Suite 8F group were all active in the Democratic Party. That had to be the case as the Democrats controlled Texas. However, Tower was a leading figure in the Republican Party and represented the changes that were taking place in the political landscape. In May, 1961, Tower became the first Republican senator elected in Texas since 1870. This marked the beginning of the end for the Democrats in Texas. The problem got even worse after the passing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. The emergence of John Tower posed a serious threat to the Suite 8F Group. However, by 1965 this problem had obviously been solved as Richard Russell allowed Tower to join his Senate Armed Services Committee. He also became a member of the Joint Committee on Defense Production. The control of both these committees was vitally important to the Suite 8F Group. In 1981 Tower became chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. By this time he had developed a reputation of someone who looked after the oil and armaments industries in Texas. Under Tower’s guidance defense spending rose to $211 billion a year. In January, 1985, Tower retired from the Senate in order to become a highly-paid defense consultant (his company, Tower, Eggers, and Greene Consulting was based in Dallas and Washington). However, two weeks after leaving the Senate Ronald Reagan appointed him as chief United States negotiator at the Strategic Arms Reduction Talks in Geneva. I am sure he made a good job of bringing an end to the arms race. In November 1986, Reagan persuaded Tower to chair the President's Special Review Board to study the actions of the National Security Council and its staff during the Iran-Contra affair. I am sure he made a good job of that as well. In 1989 President George Bush selected Tower to become his Secretary of Defense. However, the Senate refused to confirm his nomination because of his known links with the arms industry. As Steven Waldman reported in the Washington Monthly: "There was no solid proof Tower did anything illegal when he was a defense consultant after leaving government, but his closeness to the industry makes it doubtful he would have been sufficiently critical of contractors' products and claims." This was the first rejection of a cabinet nominee in more than 30 years. Tower knew where all the bodies were buried. Was Bush worried that Tower would talk unless he was given a top job like the Secretary of Defense? If that is so, when the Senate rejected him, did he become a man who might talk about what he knew about the CIA and corruption in the Senate. John Tower was killed in a plane crash new New Brunswick, Georgia, on 5th April, 1991. According to the New York Times the “failure of a severely worn part in the plane’s propeller control unit caused the aircraft to spin out of control.” I am interested in discovering the names of the oil and armaments companies that Tower was working with. I have ordered a copy of Tower’s autobiography, Consequences: A Personal and Political Memoir. I have also ordered a copy of Rodney Stich’s Defrauding America, that apparently looks at Tower relationship with the CIA and the armaments industry. Does anybody else have copies of these books or any other information that links Tower to the Suite 8F Group? http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKtowerJ.htm <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John, I will be very interested in the results of the ongoing research of you and the other posters here. I think this thread should be kept alive. It's fascinating. Great work, all.

James, Very good (lol)

No. (Sorry, Tim--couldn't resist)

I like the true story of the gridiron player from the seventies. When he was asked how did he think he'll perform on astroturf he replied, "I dunno--I ain't never smoked astroturf"

It would be thoughtless if you committed suicide. However, I don't suspect murderers worry about such things. Another connection was that they both did it in their holiday homes. According to an interview giving by Deborah Davis (one of the journalists at Ramparts who first exposed details of Operation Mockingbird) after the publication of her book (Katharine the Great - a book the CIA tried to suppress), she found evidence that Edward Bennett Williams organized the death of Philip Graham. He was at the time Graham's lawyer. Later he became a close friend of Katharine Graham. Williams was also Bobby Baker's lawyer. Later he defended John Connolly when he was accused of corruption. At the time of the accusation Connolly was favourite to replace Spiro Agnew as Vice President. As a result the job went to Gerald Ford, a man who had been compromised by Fred Black, in a bugged hotel room, during the Baker investigation in 1963. Ford then appears on the Warren Commission and then appears to cover up for Nixon. Williams was also involved with Ben Bradlee in the CIA operation to expose Watergate. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John. Great thread. There's some very provocative ideas in your research. I must admit that as a novice researcher, I had never heard of the Suite 8F group before. Now that I've had a look at their history, I believe there's a strong chance that they could have organised the assassination and employed Operation Mockingbird in the aftermath. Kennedy's proposal to scrap the oil depletion allowance was, I believe, both his bravest and also his most foolish initiative. If I were him I would never have telegraphed my punches to such a wealthy, powerful and dangerous group (what happened to Mattei?). Instead, with the great benefit of hindsight, it would have been much wiser to say nothing (or even lie--it wouldn't be a first for a politician) and then implement the policy after winning in 64, his final term. In Robert Dallek's "Kennedy--an unfinished life" the author describes the deep misgivings of both Sorenson and Bobby about JFK's decision to give LBJ the #2 spot on the ticket, citing a betrayal of his earlier undertaking to union and liberal groups not to do this. LBJ suddenly changed from being a strident critic to a stauch supporter. "It's my only chance to be President" said LBJ. However, I'm not so certain JFK was "persuaded" by Graham and co., although it's a possibility. He might just have wanted to make certain of carrying Texas and the south---Kennedy knew this would probably be his only chance to be President, too. I think the link between the Suite 8F group, Johnson and the Georgetown group could be the key to the assassination. I would also like to read "The Invisible Government".

Shanet, While I agree that LBJ didn't plan the assassination, I believe he urged its expedition. The timing couldn't have been better for him, with the Billy Sol Estes affair about to break and the widely held belief that Kennedy would drop him from the '64 ticket. There's also too many allegations about his behavior immediately before, during and after the motorcade, in my opinion, for LBJ to be granted a clean bill of health. Moreover, the sudden reversal of some, but not all, of JFK's planned policy initiatives indicate that he was a willing participant in a successful attempt to change the status quo, which some powerful forces within America (and some outside America) believed was developing beyond their control. Finally, his establishment of the WC and its' flawed terms of reference prove to many that he played a pivotal role in the subsequent coverup.

Hi James, Yes, it's a scary resemblance.

Hi Lee, Yes, maybe the WC ignoring Tilson was a rare case of them getting it right. Mark

James and Ron, I think the third guy is a good old innocent bystander. Looks like he's not with Arce or Mr. Slick. Not really sure about Mr. Slick either because he's gone later. But he really does look like he's up to no good.

That's enough on that one. Yes, there's more about hearing voices of Jewish people being tortured in the next cell, etc. However. There are many things that bother me about Jack Ruby. - As per the initial posting, it appears that there was someone that looked like Ruby active in Dealey Plaza. The man at the TSBD doorway could be said to bear some resemblance. - Marguerite Oswald is presented with what? A photo of Jack Ruby, before he kills her son? Or Saul? - Mexican Oswald [saul] and the memo concerning alteration of the photo to avoid confusion with Ruby. - The Mercer affidavit, which alters her statement to not include her identification of Ruby. - The man described at the scene of the Tippit murder - The photos Now Hemming is saying that Saul was indeed someone we should be looking at. MacDonald says so also - has him on the top floor of the DalTex, with the plan to terminate 'Harvey' and create the fall guy for the assassination. Interesting. From Coronet, March 1965 - the Belli interview. Here's the Dallas Police Department Ruby. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/rubydpd2.jpg Here is the Warren Report Ruby. http://www.all-science-fair-projects.com/s...ting-oswald.jpg And this is....who is this? http://www.yale.edu/yale300/democracy/may1...ssasination.gif More from Coronet: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just a few thoughts and queries. Great thread. 1. The statements of Victoria Adams, Malcolm Crouch and Jean Hills grassy knoll runner put Wanda Walker's DMN placing of Ruby in doubt. Is it possible he ran to the DMN offices for a brief alibi appearance (then back again?) 2. Regarding Tilson, I don't know. It's curious that he would throw away the piece of paper which supports his story. Against that, anyone who was ignored by the WC gets extra credibity in my book. I don't know. 3. Who was this cycle cop who told Jean Hill's boyfriend, J B Marshall, that he saw LBJ ducking before the shots. Anyone know his name? 4. The (large) photo of the Oswald shooting has one aspect which has always bothered me. What's the name of the detective in the white hat, dark suit and glasses to the left of the image? To me he looks like he's on guard in case anyone interferes with what Ruby's about to do. Just a thought. Is it Fritz?

Thanks Lee. Yeh eventually i will have another webpage with just documents in "thumnbnail" style, i have already started to work on it. It takes quite a while to upload all that information, and then set it out in a style that is easy to navigate. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Guys, Extremely funny exchanges, all. You're forgetting Jack, though. Just to go one-up on his old buddy Lee, he decides to sacrifice his life and liberty in front of 40 million viewers for what--to save a person he has never met the trauma of a courtroom trial!! Those gun running, violent, gangster connected nightclub owners are really the most altruistic guys aren't they? Robin, I tried to access your site but it said something about insufficient data space. My computer's a musuem relic which I will soon update. I'm looking forward to checking out your site. I know it'll be a beauty.

Jim, I agree Max Taylor would have been in a great position to organise it all. But I've read elsewhere that he was a personal friend of the Kennedys. Is this not the case? What do you think about the guilt or otherwise of his predecessor, Lyman Lemnitzer?

After reading the April 30, 1964 Executive Session of the Warren Commission, I'm no longer sure about Warren. In that session he agreed to the necessity of a Commission member and a doctor examining the autopsy photos. And yet this was not done. McCloy in his HSCA testimony blamed Warren. Either Warren stopped the examination because he was an overly-sentimental fool who was worried about upsetting the Kennedys, who had said the photos could be viewed if necessary, or he was worried the examination of the photos would take the investigation down an avenue he couldn't control. I now find it easier to believe Warren participated in a cover-up than that he was completely unqualified to lead an investigation. His comments in his memoirs that the Clark Panel confirmed the Warren Commission's interpretation of the wounds is the height of deceptive polito-speak. He was a politician, first and foremost--maybe he was swayed by fears LBJ would unleash a nuclear arsenal--maybe LBJ told him he would do as much. I find the scenario that Warren was afraid of what LBJ might do (if the evidence pointed at him) more plausible than the scenario that he was scared of what the Russians might do (if the evidence pointed at them). There is no getting around it: either Warren was an incompetent or a participant in a cover-up. And if he covered-up, either he did it out of fear of LBJ or fear of the Russians. If he allowed the Russians to get away with the crime, what assurance would he have had that they wouldn't just turn around and kill LBJ, or all of congress? Therefore, his covering for LBJ after LBJ threatened to use all the powers of the Presidency to protect himself, including perhaps the distraction of starting a nuclear war, makes a lot more sense. Which sounds more reasonable to you? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pat, I think Earl Warren was simply following his riding instructions (from LBJ). Namely, OSWALD DID IT FULL STOP. Whether he feared the Russians is irrelevant. His boss gave him a job and he carried it out.

Tim I confess I haven't read all the LBJ tapes. Far from it. From my research of the assassination (which is only a few books and movies, I admit) there seems to be a consistent line of behavior concerning LBJ. He was a fixer, a backroom dealer. Not a crime, of course, but here's a brief sample of some of LBJ's stunts; 1. How he "earned" his Blue Star (that's a beauty) 2. His odd behaviour after the assassination. 3. the Coke Stevenson controversy. 4. Bobbie Baker. 5. His savage smearing of Kennedy prior to the 1960 nomination (telling Ike that JFK was a "dangerous man") and then suddenly accepting the VP ticket with this "dangerous man". 6. His choice of personnel for WC. (He initially favored a Texas inquiry--loud guffaws) Are we kids or what? I never said LBJ killed JFK. He would'nt have had the nerve. Instead, I believe he dropped a subtle hint here and there, among the powerful people with whom he was associated, that while Kennedy opposes their ideas, he does not. And he surely knew about it in advance.

While I find the tapes fascinating I always take into account that LBJ controlled the taping himself, and deliberately avoided taping some of the conversations a historian would be most curious to hear. Consequently, we can't be sure some of the tapes were not mini-dramas scripted and recorded for posterity. What I find most interesting on the tapes is Hoover's absolute lack of ability--the man seems utterly lacking in the instincts and insight one might expect from "America's top cop." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Pat, Yes I agree. Of course those tapes were "edited". LBJ was the most cunning of politicians. You need only research his career to know that.

Long time interest in JFK assassination.