Christopher Hall

Yes, it's certainly some citizen Congress we have, isn't it?

The separation from reality that these people have is infinitely more pronounced with those members who have never experienced living in a lower or middle class environment, because they really can't adequately imagine what economic survival entails.

I don't fault people who were born wealthy (e.g. the Kennedys, the Bushes, Mitt Romney) and I certainly don't think that their good fortune should bar them from public service, but I have life experiences to which they will never be able to relate.

I once saw a video from a Ted Kennedy campaign stop and a man confronted him saying "Senator, you've never worked a day in your life". A person standing by Kennedy told him "You ain't missed a damned thing."

Really neat comment on Perry. The wages of cover up agent Elmer Moore. Who should have been in jail. And he knew it. Which is why he showed up at the Church Committee with a lawyer.

As per the blown our right side, I think most of us believe there were two shots to the head: one through the right temple and one from behind. This had to result in extensive brain damage. Which is why the original photos by Stringer have been substituted.

I agree.

This is what I see in the Zap film.

And thanks for the info on McClelland, Jim (Fetzer).

Center/Study of Political Assassinations

Thanks, Bill.

BTW, have you ever posted your thesis on the Bay of Pigs?

And so the assault on Mormanism/the LDS church has started.

Mitt has been running for President for 6 years and, only now, will the MSM start having documentaries on the LDS church.

I can see Anderson Cooper being deployed to Salt Lake City any day now.

Mitt's faith has nothing to do with why I would never, ever consider voting for him, but attacks on him vastly over-estimate his prowess as a Presidential candidate.

Kudos to David Axelrod, Karl Rove and Jennifer Rubin (the Washington Post) for securing the opponent whom BHO wants to run against.

Mitt will join the pantheon of GOP Presidential roadkill along with Gerald Ford, Bush 41, Bob Dole and John McCain.

BHO needs to be working on what his Cabinet will look like in 2013, not the election.

It's in the bag.

"What they are saying is that the Mob killed Kennedy by manipulating the C Day plan as a cover up for the operation."

This synopsis by Jim D will save the prospective reader of Ultimate Sacrifice a few dollars and untold hours of drudgery in reading the epistle.

The book does a fine job of outlining the various anti-Castro Cuban groups and factions, and their respective operations, but it is a laborious read.

I appreciate Hartman and Waldron's research and efforts, but the book about wore me out and provided little real information that I believe sheds any light whatsoever on the JFK assassination.

I don't buy the C-day gone wrong (or whatever it is) thesis of the book.

Since we are talking about the accuracy of news sources, I can add that I do not regard HuffPo as a reliable source for news.

Its opinion contributors (e.g. Alec Baldwin, Jamie Lee Curtiss, et al) are frequently comical, but the problem I have with it is that it posts opinion and political hit pieces which it masquerades as news stories.

It, no doubt, reports a fair amount of accurate news, but its articles are so tendentious and politically slanted that I invariably feel like I am not getting the full picture.

And what it declines to report on or adequately cover (e.g. the shameful ATF/FBI/DOJ Fast and Furious gun-running operation to Mexico) is even more glaring.

It will have numberous articles and headlines about a foolish comment made by a GOP candidate (you pick the candidate and comment), while virtually ignoring a full-blown Democratice scandal.

I try to read articles and opinions from news aggregators and other news sites from all perspectives (not just liberal or far right drivel) so I can ascertain the truth.

When I understand what actually happened in a given matter, I can forumlate my own opinion (sometimes with the help of reading opinion pieces on both sides of the issue).

I previously read HuffPo regularly and posted on it (politely, I might add, sometimes agreeing with an article and sometimes disagreeing with the author), but the Mods would frequently not post many of my comments which didn't fit into its echo-chamber culture.

I don't post vitriol on the Internet and I decline to be baited into contests (you know the type) with people who do; and I also don't revel in political gossip and dirt, so I probably don't fit it at HuffPo.

I regard HuffPo's refusal to post my dissenting, but polite, comments as an indication that I need to drop it as a source of news and opinion.

At least the Mods thought I didn't fit into its insular culture on multiple occasions, so I deleted it from my "Favorites" section and seldom read its articles.

One of the aspects of this forum that I enjoy the most is that dissent is not a crime.

I don't always agree with the tenor of many comments and their authors, but anyone can post (even LNers).

As a result, I have learned at least as much about the JFK assassination and the political climate which prevailed at the time from this forum as I have learned in the 25 - 30 books I have read about the JFK assassination.

It could be worse - at least it's not a bi-partisan committee.

http://www.nationale...s-murder-solved

Peter Janney is a good researcher, the son of a CIA official, who has used his father's contacts to acquire information unavailable to others.

Mary Pinchot Meyer was the wife of CIA officer Cord Meyer, and the daughter of the powerful Pennsylvania Republican Pinchot family, who JFK visited on Sept.24, 1963, the first stop on his Conservation Tour.

JFK had met Mary Pinchot while a student at Choate, introduced by his room mate William Atwood, who JFK would later appoint as an ambassador, and who was responsible for the back-channel UN negotiations with Castro that ended with the assassination.

One of the important aspects of this book is that it will show that Nina Burleigh's book on the subject, "A Very Private Woman: The Life and Unsolved Murder of Presidential Mistress Mary Meyer" (1998) was a CIA limited hangout.

I came close to buying this book, but the Amazon reviews of it were awful so I took a pass on it.

I am excited about this new book, though, and I will buy and read it, but waiting 6 months for it will be tough.

I have always viewed her murder as post-Dallas cleanup work by the JFK assassination perpetrators or their emisarries.

I enjoyed "An American Affair" with Gretchen Mol as a fictionalized version of the MPM story, but YMMV.

Scott,

It's time to take a pill and chill, dude. We all sometimes get hot under the collar but you're losing control. Put the keyboard in the fridge for the evening.

Lee,

I call it like I see it, if I don't cover up my father's crap what makes you think I'm going to cover up someone else's? First off, my father was killed for having to much information on Kennedy's assassination and I get a bit touchy when I think someone is trying to hide something, we're not talking about a petty theft crime, were talking about the crime of the century and the "killing" of my father. What more do you want from me? I'm not afraid to die and when I discover those involved you bet your assets the world will know....

Scott-

Can you share more about this?

Thanks.

Chris

Thanks, John.

This is an interesting history of the notion of muckraking.

From the title of this thread, I thought that we were supposed to guess the forum member to which this intriguing question relates.

I concur with John's assessment of both of these seminal treatises on the assassination.

I may have to re-read Gaeton Fonzi's "Last Investigation".

His description of Antonio Veciana's seeing DAP (aka Maurice Bishop) in the Senate Office Building (or wherever the deposition took place, I forget the precise circumstances) is quite telling.

Don't spoil it ,I got the book for my birthday today.

I won't say another word, amigo.

It's a great resource.

At least we now know how John Kennedy Oswald died:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/10/05/jani-lane-cause-death-alcohol-poisoning-vodka/?test=faces

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jani_Lane

This is actually quite sad, of course.

Imagine bearing "Oswald" as your surname and having a child 2 - 3 months after the assassination.

What do you do?

Name him John Kennedy Oswald.

I concur with John's assessment of both of these seminal treatises on the assassination.

I may have to re-read Gaeton Fonzi's "Last Investigation".

His description of Antonio Veciana's seeing DAP (aka Maurice Bishop) in the Senate Office Building (or wherever the deposition took place, I forget the precise circumstances) is quite telling.

Alessio Rastani said: "The savings of millions of people is going to vanish". The UK government currently guarantees up to £85,000 of personal savings. Does the US do the same?

The US guarantees up to $250,000 per bank for each depositer.

Thus, people tend to try to not keep more than $250,000 in any one bank.

But I don't have any confidence that the US could keep that obligation.

Obviously, it couldn't if there was a systemic run on banks.

The US can't pay the $17 trillion or so that it owes on its T bills, or its Medicare and Social Security obligations, so I don't give much creedence to its FDIC deposit insurance program.

The promise of an insolvent, bankrupt country to pay even more money is kind of laughable.

Thanks for the succinct historical summaries, Jim.

Discussing the BOP necessarily (or at least invariably) involves blame, motives, deception, etc.

The documented facts tell the story better than verbal anecdotes.

Thanks, John.

I plan to buy and read this when it becomes available.

I watched a DVD of Inside Job (2010) a documentary film about the late-2000s financial crisis directed by Charles H. Ferguson. It is a film that I would recommend everyone to see. Ferguson has described the film as being about "the systemic corruption of the United States by the financial services industry and the consequences of that systemic corruption."

I knew most of the story but the interviews were fascinating. Most of the main conspirators were unwilling to be interviewed by Ferguson. However, the film does include clips from the testimony given before Congress. Ferguson was able to interview some of the academics who played a vital role in the scam. To my surprise they did not seem to be aware of the immorality of taking large sums of money to write reports that provided cover for the conspirators to rob innocent people of their pension funds.

Ferguson shows the role that Clinton and Bush played in this financial scandal. He also showed how Obama is under the control of the Wall Street Mafia and the same group of people are still in control of the US economy. This is why the people behind the scandal have not been punished for their crimes. Nor have there been any attempt by the authorities to get back the large sums of money the bank executives and their political placemen have stolen from the people (via their pension funds).

I found one statement in the film very significant. Apparently, for the first time in history, the majority of the American public, are financially worse off than their parents. According to Marx, that places us in a revolutionary situation.

This sounds like a revealing documentary, John.

I will try to look for it on the television or get a copy of it on DVD.

I thought in 2008 that we were being scammed when GWB, McCain, Obama and Warren Buffett told us that life as we knew it would end if Congress didn't pass TARP.

I didn't buy it at all, and I was right.

One of the things that cinched in it for me was Warren Buffett going on a prime time television interview preaching doom and gloom that could only be averted with the passage - right after he committed to purchase $5 billion in Goldman Sachs stock or warrants, all of which he has since redeemed for a huge profit (or at least that is what I have read).

And now he has committed another $5 billion to Bank of America/Merrill Lynch.

Forgive me if I'm suspicious.

At least for the last 15 or so years, the investment banking community (at least some of the highest profile members) have done more harm than good.

I no longer trust this sector of the economy.

I think that Ernest Hemingway was, by far, the most influential author of the early 20th century from a writing style standpoint.

He competed with Thomas Wolfe (another Charles Scribner writer, I believe, and also a Harvard alumnus), William Faulkner and F. Scott Fitzgerald.

Reading about the American ex-pats in Paris in the 1920s is quite intersting.

His experiences there are nicely chronicled in his posthumously published "A Moveable Feast".

I think that the most influential playwrite would have invariably been Tennessee Williams.

Hemingway is my favorite author and Williams is my favorite playwrite.

I have seen both of their homes in Key West.

The 1950s and 1960s were also intersting American literary times with the contributions of the Beat Generation artists.

I am reading Charles Bukowski's "Ham on Rye" right now.

I don't know whether he is technically a Beat Generation artist.

This is a good picture of Jimmy Page playing his signature double necked Gibson EDS 1275.

On stage at the Monterey Pop Festival:

"They're shooting this for television. I'm sure they're going to edit this out. I want to say it anyway, even though they will edit it out. When President Kennedy was killed, he was not killed by one man. He was shot from a number of different directions, by different guns. The story has been suppressed, witnesses have been killed, and this is your country, ladies and gentlemen."

- David Crosby Monterey Pop Festival 5/17/1967

Whose the guy who says "David was just trying to be hip"?

I think his name was Gene. When they did "Turn, Turn, Turn," he was the lead singer and he used to wear these little square glasses. I guess he didn't like anyone else being cool.

Kathy C

Gene Clark is the person to whom you were referring.

He was the main songwriter for the Byrds, which was, of course, an country rock supergroup (and included bassist Chris Hillman (who is still at it and whom I still listen to quite a bit), Gram Parsons (for the Byrds' 1st record (I believe), the inimitable Roger McGuin (known for his mastery of the 6 string guitar) and drummer Michael Clarke).

I never knew that Crosby made these comments. It would be interesting to know the source of his belief. I was only 10 in 1967 and believed the ubiquitous SBT pap which existed at that time.

Perhaps Crosby was reading or listening to Mark Lane.

I saw Crosby a few years later with CSN & Y and and also with Graham Nash in Hollywood.

There were some epic performances turned in at the Monterey Pop Festival, with Hendrix's pouring lighter fluid on his guitar and torching it being the most memorable.

Janis Joplin also had a great performance at Monterey.

I live around 100 miles or so from Manchester, Tn, where Bonaroo takes place, but at my age the notion of hanging around a pasture in Tn in June for 2 - 3 days doesn't interest me. But the music sure does.

Thanks Chris,

I just wondered who would dismiss David Crosby's remarks, which have been repeated over the years, and worn into a solid belief that the official story of the assassination is wrong.

His long term endorsement of conspiracy and his long held belief that it is an important and significant issue transends Gene Clarks' off hand dismissal of his feelings as just "trying to be hip."

I guess he also thinks Hendrix was just trying to be hip too? The bootleg recordings of Hendrix's London pub sessions are what makes him legend, not just his official recordings.

Thanks for the background,

BK

What struck me about Crosby's remarks was their timing (just 3 years post-assassination), which makes them rather prescient from my perspective. Particularly in view of the fact that I thought that Vietnam was all that anyone talked about at that time.

I wonder what Crosby thinks about the JFK assassination now.

I think that Clark's dismissiveness is a reflection on his worldview, which his comment would lead us to believe to be rather shallow.

Being hip was a commonplace objective at that time.

From a music history standpoint, I feel privileged to have been able to experience the genisis and development of rock and its many sub-genres. There were some immensely talented musicians at that time. We can only wonder what a good many of those musicians who didn't make it (e.g. The 27 Club, which included, among others, Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, Gram Parsons) would have done if they had lived longer.

A lot of music from back then reflected the influence of blues and, particularly in the case of the Byrds, CSN & Y and the Fling Burrito Brothers, country.

I forgot about Jimi's sojourn to London.

I think he went out to San Francisco when he returned (which may have been where he was from - I forget).

A little known fact about Jimi is that one of his earliest gigs was with the Isley Brothers - not exactly the context in which we normally think of Jimi.

And the fact that when he played at Woodstock only around 10% of the 400,000 attendees were still around (perhaps BK, I can only imagine).

On stage at the Monterey Pop Festival:

"They're shooting this for television. I'm sure they're going to edit this out. I want to say it anyway, even though they will edit it out. When President Kennedy was killed, he was not killed by one man. He was shot from a number of different directions, by different guns. The story has been suppressed, witnesses have been killed, and this is your country, ladies and gentlemen."

- David Crosby Monterey Pop Festival 5/17/1967

Whose the guy who says "David was just trying to be hip"?

I think his name was Gene. When they did "Turn, Turn, Turn," he was the lead singer and he used to wear these little square glasses. I guess he didn't like anyone else being cool.

Kathy C

Gene Clark is the person to whom you were referring.

He was the main songwriter for the Byrds, which was, of course, an country rock supergroup (and included bassist Chris Hillman (who is still at it and whom I still listen to quite a bit), Gram Parsons (for the Byrds' 1st record (I believe), the inimitable Roger McGuin (known for his mastery of the 6 string guitar) and drummer Michael Clarke).

I never knew that Crosby made these comments. It would be interesting to know the source of his belief. I was only 10 in 1967 and believed the ubiquitous SBT pap which existed at that time.

Perhaps Crosby was reading or listening to Mark Lane.

I saw Crosby a few years later with CSN & Y and and also with Graham Nash in Hollywood.

There were some epic performances turned in at the Monterey Pop Festival, with Hendrix's pouring lighter fluid on his guitar and torching it being the most memorable.

Janis Joplin also had a great performance at Monterey.

I live around 100 miles or so from Manchester, Tn, where Bonaroo takes place, but at my age the notion of hanging around a pasture in Tn in June for 2 - 3 days doesn't interest me. But the music sure does.

Jack-

We miss you and we hope that you get well soon.

Take care,

Chris

Wikipedia is controlled media - nothing more.

Sometimes it is accurate and sometimes it is propaganda.

I am glad that someone monitors the monitors of it (or the primary posters on it).

Some of the related things going on right now sound like fodder for late night television monologues.

Assange sought by Interpol for refusing to wear a condom and for "sabotaging" condom.

Department of Homeland Security swoops in to raid bit torrent sponsors (protecting Lady Gaga and Keith Urban recordings instead of our borders).

You can't make up some of this stuff.

Although I would give anything to see a JFK assassination document dump, I believe that our last best chance of getting to see the more than one million hidden documents will come from legislative action or by executive order.

If I were the President, I would issue an executive order requiring the release of these records.

From a poltical standpoint, I think it would be popular with the populist types who are rather ubiquitous these days.