Paul Rigby

Au contraire; it was one of the most BRILLIANT plots in history. The conspirators shot the president of the USA in broad daylight, AND THEY ALL GOT AWAY WITH IT, even to the point where one of the MOST OBVIOUS CONSPIRATORS, Bill Greer, is fooling coincidence theorists to this day.

There is plenty of evidence that the masterminds of the JFK plot were also EXPERTS in the field of MIND CONTROL.

I say, Jay, very well put. And I agree with you on shots to Kennedy from the rear - (a) shifting, transparent, post-mortem fabrication(s). Lifton here is impeccably sound.

Two commendations in one post? I apologise. Twice.

Paul

I just think its bunk to believe that SS agents, driving the presidential limo, would fire a weapon at the President and think they would not be discovered by the occupants in the car.

Did Greer and Kellerman really fear discovery? I doubt it. Just who was going to move against them, the spear-point of the conspiracy? Sure, there was the inconvenience of the interviews with the FBI on November 27; and Greer in particular could be forgiven, assuming he was aware of the fact, for a momentary pause when the G-men set down a physical description of him - just as in the case of the medical intern who so helpfully pumped up and down on Oswald's gut immediately post-shooting - but I'm sure that passed quickly.

And no Paul, I am not obsessed with this thread.

Never said - or wrote - that you were. Did you have someone else in mind, Jonathan?

Just trying to understand why you would think this theory is possible.

No, that's a fib. You're not here to "understand" anything. You're here to object to the idea, as you stated at the outset of your post.

From what I have read here, this is all based on poorly worded statements from witnesses?

Weasel words. You don't like the import of their statements. Again, a different matter.

Answer me this, would The Governor and/or his wife have ringing in their ears if a gun was fired in teir direction, from 3-4 away? Wouldn't they remember that, if it happened?

I'm sure one or more did; and therefore await the release of the unexpurgated WC testimony with some interest. if you have Jackie's, do share with the rest of us!

Amen! Well said. Paul, how could shots have been fired from within the limousine without A SINGLE PERSON having seen it happen?

Is that true? If so, why the refusal of those who questioned, say, Austin Miller and George Davis, to ask the question directly? After all, if you were right, there wasn't anything to fear from their answers.

Even if we suppose it did happen, how could that possibly have been edited out of the several films that show the head shot?

You assume the films genuine - why? The evidence against them is overwhelming: The witnesses take precedence over the films; their testimony is incompatible with the films; and the films have no provenance worth a damn. End of story.

Exactly.

The quote, "The shots sounded they were coming from inside the car", is a figure of speech. The witnesses did not mean them literally.

It must be amateurs' night.

First Tink, the ace researcher who threw a hissy fit in Dec 1967 at the mere suggestion of planted evidence; then Herr Speer, who can't get his head around the idea that a proponent of film fraud would refuse to use fake film to buttress his claims (it''s called logic, Pat); and now poor John, obsessed by a thread he claims is nonsense...

Guys, come on, raise your game. Get together, agree a line, and inject it into the thread.

Anyway, here's Austin Miller not meaning it literally:

Mr. Belin: “Where did the shots sound like they came from?”

Miller: “Well, the way it sounded like, it came from the, I would say right there in the car,” 6WCH225.

Yes, clear evidence of profound confusion.

......Still waiting on the list of Top Researchers that think this theory is possible.

John Dugan, meet Doug Horne. Doug, meet John. Fred, say hello to John. And Perry, if you're looking down on this, try to suppress a smile. John's trying very hard to impress.

I agree, Tink. Embarrassing. Particularly in that Rigby is not even using the usual claim--that the Z-film shows Greer shoot Kennedy--but is instead conjuring up a case for the Greer did-it scenario by misrepresenting evidence statements.

Thrown, eh, Pat? What's new?

His assertion that Murder From Within is the most influential Kennedy book ever is also quite a hoot. An earnest book, with some original research and thinking, but the most influential?

Body alteration, film alteration, SS centrality to the plot - in 1974. Kind of topical, don't you think?

Part of the reason it is so obscure is that it was quickly outdated, in that, by the mid-70's almost everyone who had seen the film had quickly concluded that Greer DIDN'T shoot Kennedy.

Old habits of mind really do die hard: Why would anyone use such an obviously fake film to support - or refute - any contention about the assassination? Time for a paradigm shift. Or, failing that, lunch.

Rigby

Every once in a while I find myself agreeing with Mr. Rigby. Now SS agent Sorrels is DEFINITELY a person of interest in this investigation, but (as sometimes happens when I read Mr. Rigby's posts) I am at a loss to understand the point being made here.

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...H24_CE_2111.pdf

Jay,

Second paragraph, beginning:

“This concrete slab and manhole cover is located on the south side of Elm Street almost opposite to where the President’s car was located when the last shot that killed President Kennedy was fired.”

Sorrels had retained that part of the cover-story about the presidential limo not deviating from the central lane, and either failed to digest, or not been properly briefed upon, the upshot of the campaign to drag the impact points back down Elm. The latter is entirely possible. There are number of important figures – not least Zapruder – who give every evidence of being kept out of the loop on this point.

And, yes, I agree with you on Sorrels. A figure of some interest.

Paul

Bonus feature:

http://www.otrcat.com/john-kennedy-p-1453....roducts_id=1453

Old Cat Radio: WFAA radio coverage 1345hrs >

In which Pierce Allman gets into a fine old syntactical twist on the subject of the SS “firing back.”

[Credit to Robert Howard for the find & link.]

If Saturday Night Live was going to do a sketch making fun of Kennedy assassination researchers, this would be it... long involved discussions as to whether Greer, while driving the limousine, could have turned around in his seat, whipped out a chrome-colored revolver, and blasted JFK in the head. I can just see it.

There is only one word for this kind of nonsense.... silly!

Josiah Thompson

Which doubtless explains why you systematically suppressed testimony suggesting same in SSID. Something to hide, Tink?

Still, always useful to know Langley thinks I'm on the "wrong" track.

HAHAHAHA, Paul, you are too funny. You just grabbed the last thread I started. Which, BTW, contains information about bullets and casing found in and around dealey plaza. Physical evidence and material that could pertain to the assassanation. I didn't start a thread about SS agents in the front seat shooting at four people in the backseat.

So your passing of the "WORST THREAD EVER" trophy is rejected

Sir, quality, even the lack of it, will out: You've earned your accolade, not least for rank incomprehension.

Keep it up.

Now, while your mulling over the many superiorities of evidence found several years after the event, contemplate the genius of SS Sorrels, that unwitting friend of the truth:

CE-2111

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...H24_CE_2111.pdf

LOL---I'll move the SS agent stuff to another thread, it was off topic anyways...not gonna keep it in the worst thread ever.

It is with deep regret that I must forfeit this most coveted title. But forfeit it I must in the face of overwhelming superiority. Here, the swine, is the proof:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15345

It has everything a certain kind of JFK researcher could want in a thread: "Evidence" discovered years after the event, bearing no chain of possession, and unburdened by so much as a sliver of corroborating eyewitness testimony. It is, in summary, a thread with legs. Four of them.

Meanwhile, back at the nuthouse we call in-car-shooterland, lunatic fringers weirdly persist in regarding the following sort of dubious photographic nonsense, when allied to a left veer, and the final shot position offered by CE2111 (manhole cover), as far more germane:

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/galle...um=41&pos=0

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/galle...um=37&pos=0

Weird, eh?

this might be the worst thread ever. A shot from inside the Presidential Limo, REALLY?

I think Connally, IF ANYONE, would know if a shot have come from 3 feet away from where he was sitting. And he has never stated anything remotely close to such a claim, therefore making this the worst thread ever.

Maybe James Files was hiding in the floorboard and fired the fatal shot. I'll start a thread on it.

You've got to admire the zeal...if only because there's nothing else to admire.

The worst thread "ever"? That's some competition, JD, I mean, you've started a few.

But it is illuminating to this degree: the emotional hyperbole of the repudiation. No other scenario produces it.

And no wonder, for nothing boasts its explanatory power:

Self-censorship may exist most strongly when people are confronted with a force capable of killing a very important victim, in broad daylight, with impunity. The odds of their experiencing reprisal would dictate prudence. In short, witnesses' opinion of the political power of the killers would determine their amount of recall,

Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams. Murder From Within, chapter 3, "Execution."

PS One very good way of assessing the ridiculousness - or otherwise - of a criterion of rejection is to apply it generally. If Connally didn't state it outright, presumably that ends all other alternatives to the TSBD, too? Puerile stuff.

I'm told that Doug Horne's work includes a Parkland witness to the stench of gunpowder from within the presidential limo. If that distinctive aroma wasn't carried there by the the car, that really was some wind blowing through Dallas that day!

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

Brave and honest stuff from Doug Horne, and Bill Kelly:

10) Do you believe, as it has been alleged on internet forums, that Greer shot JFK in the head with his pistol?

D.H.: No, I do not "believe" this as an article of faith, or as a firm finding. It is merely an unpleasant and disturbing possibility. I raised it as an "evidentiary afterthought," because there were so many nagging and interlocking indicators of both a left temporal entry wound, and of a pistol being discharged during the assassination...The fact that Triage Nurse Bertha Lozano smelled gunpowder as JFK and Connally were wheeled past her at Parkland implies that there was a firearm discharged in the limousine and that particulate matter was embedded in someone's clothing - otherwise she would not have smelled gunpowder...

Now we see why it was so important to the SS that the victims' clothing was not scrutinised properly; and have an additional reason for the cleaning out the limo.

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

Brave and honest stuff from Doug Horne:

10) Do you believe, as it has been alleged on internet forums, that Greer shot JFK in the head with his pistol?

D.H.: No, I do not "believe" this as an article of faith, or as a firm finding. It is merely an unpleasant and disturbing possibility. I raised it as an "evidentiary afterthought," because there were so many nagging and interlocking indicators of both a left temporal entry wound, and of a pistol being discharged during the assassination. Four physicians at Parkland have strongly supported a left temporal entry at one time or another: McClelland; Jenkins; Jones; and Puerto (Porto). So did father Oscar Huber. So did Dr. Charles Wilbur (a renowned pathologist) in a 1999 letter, in which he stated his reasons in detail. Since the head of the deceased President was not shaved at autopsy, the autopsy photos do not answer this question. The autopsy report has been rewritten at least twice, so it is not trustworthy. The fact that Triage Nurse Bertha Lozano smelled gunpowder as JFK and Connally were wheeled past her at Parkland implies that there was a firearm discharged in the limousine and that particulate matter was embedded in someone's clothing - otherwise she would not have smelled gunpowder. Hugh Betzner observed a nickel-plated revolver in someone's hand inside the limousine during the assassination; and Jean Hill observed plain clothes men "shooting back." Both Clint Hill and Sam Holland heard a pistol discharged near the end of the shooting sequence. The fact that we do not see Greer doing so in the extant Zapruder film is meaningless, since we now know the film has been altered and the brief car stop was almost certainly removed from the film. This disturbing pattern of evidence is simply one of the many reasons why an exhumation should be conducted, and is further evidence that we really don't know exactly what happened in Dealey Plaza.

And kudos to Bill Kelly for reporting it straight.

Sounds like the strategy of the PBS CIA film Oswald's Ghost: use old researchers as a straw dog for "the other side of the story" and keep the new and dangerous stuff out. Meanwhile don't mention the intel connections of key narrators, witnesses for the "McRational Side of the Story"

Bang on the money, sir, you're a cad.

But fear not. Mindful of the peasants' revolt against Mack and the current line of the Sixth Form Museum, certain establishment forces appear to be contemplating a change of facade, on the sound Tory principle that “If you want things to stay as they are, things will have to change" (Lampedusa's Leopard).

Enter stage right...Robert Groden, champion of, er, Zapruder film authenticity.

Now that's what I call change we can believe in.

Think of it as our very own Obama moment.

Paul, you call yourself an anti-alterationist. Does that mean you disagree with alterationists--those who believe the Zapruder film is fake?

Elementary comprehension isn't really your forte, is it, Pat?

If so, that would at least be consistent, seeing as you think Greer shot Kennedy, and how EVERYONE I've ever come across to think Greer shot Kennedy did so after viewing a cruddy version of the Z-film.

You're mixing in the wrong circles - and going in them, too.

As it was claimed on another thread that the Sixth Floor Museum carries no pro-conspiracy literature, I thought it might prove informative to re-activate this thread, which sets the record straight. It carries SOME conspiracy material, but only that which might be considered relatively mainstream.

"Relatively mainstream" = nothing that exposes the wholesale deception upon which my work, and that of my fellow-antialterationists, rests.

I don't want to give the impression, Pat, that I don't enjoy your attempt to set yourself up as the epitome of reason and good sense in the case, for that would be untrue: It's hopelessy comic.

This isn't all that surprising considering it's the book shop of a museum and major tourist attraction. I mean, I wouldn't expect to find books on Wall Street's support of Hitler* in the Holocaust Museum book store, would you?

An honest historian/observer would; but then that's the difference between history and propaganda; and that's a distinction utterly and necessarily lost on you.

* The name Edwin Black ring any bells?

The only issue here is...

Is your hypocrisy; and attempt to parley a minor inaccuracy into a point of significance impugning the integrity of the most influential manuscript yet compiled on the assassination.

There, I think that about covers it.

Not that Murder From Within won't survive your compelling assault: I'm told that Doug Horne's work includes a Parkland witness to the stench of gunpowder from within the presidential limo. If that distinctive aroma wasn't carried there by the the car, that really was some wind blowing through Dallas that day!

... a self-authenticating whole and can be used as bedrock in any investigation of the case.

Six Seconds in Dallas...

Throughout the entire Zapruder film, nothing indicates that frames have been added. What is clear is that frames have been removed. Time has been deleted from the film. With time removed, the film is useless as a clock for the assassination,

Newcomb and Adams, Murder From Within, chapter 4, "The Filmed Assassination."

This is perhaps the strangest photo I have come across in 45 years of JFK research.

What's funny is that just about EVERYONE knew it was fake before you did, Mr. Fake Photo expert.

And vice-versa on the Zapruder film, eh, Jay?

Paul, I read Brown's testimony. I have nothing against Newcomb and Adams; Generally, I like their manuscript.

But if expecting them to accurately report what a witness says is over-egging the pudding, then so be it.

When N&A give the appearance of accurately reproducing a witness' statement, while adding to it their own inferences.....

now to me that is over-egging the pudding.

All things considered, I'd keep to that narrow point if I were in your shoes.

Still, thank goodness you haven't yet encountered an obscure tome called Six Seconds in Dallas by a guy called Thompson. As a man with a keen eye for scholarly precision, you'd be really shocked by what goes on with witness testimony within those pages.

Darn, I forgot.

You rushed to his defence.

How very odd.

PS A tip: If you really want to go after Newcomb and Adams, try the passage on James Chaney, it's truly terrible.

Extract from Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams, Murder From Within (Santa Barbara, California: Probe, 1974), chapter 3, “Execution,” chapterlet entitled “Gunpowder”

Patrolman Earle V. Brown, stationed 100 yards west of the underpass, stated that he heard the shots and then smelled gunpowder as the car sped beneath him. (10)

(10) Earle V. Brown, “Testimony of Earle V. Brown [dated April 7, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 6, p. 311.

Volume VI, Page 311 of the Warren Commission Hearings contains the testimony of D V Harkness, not Earle V Brown.

Brown's testimony begins on page 231. Newcomb and Adams do not accurately reflect his statements.

Mike,

You're quite right about the N&A error in testimony location - unusual for Fred, but there we are - but then over-egg the pudding: N&A are entirely within their rights to a) state that Brown reported smelling gunpowder (233), as he unquestionably did so; and to infer from that that the only way he could have done so was if the presidential limo was the source. For as McAdams demonstrates at the link below, it couldn't have been detected by Brown from anywhere else, by virtue of timing, wind direction, or viable alternatives :

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/smell.htm

“…the wind in Dealey Plaza at the time of the head shot was from the southwest…”

"Is it plausible that an officer could smell gunpowder from shots in Dealey Plaza from 100 yards past the Underpass in the opposite direction? And that any such smell would still be in the air two minutes after the shooting?"

McAdams, of course, can only offer us one the one alternative, the grassy knoll. The rest of us have no need to accept such limitations, do we?

Brown's testimony is also interesting, and of relevance to this thread, in a couple of other respects.

Firstly, there's this:

"And then we saw the car coming with the President, and as it passed underneath me I looked right down and I could see this officer in the back; he had this gun and he was swinging it around, looked like a machinegun..." (234).

And then there's this exchange with Joseph Ball, one which illustrates rather nicely Sylvia Meagher's point concerning the anxiety of the WC-ers to transform witness accounts of the presidential limousine stopping into something all together less damaging, most notably to the fake films:

Mr. BROWN. Now they came down Main, didn't they, to Houston?

Mr. BALL. Yes.

Mr. BROWN. No. sir; actually, the first I noticed the car was when it stopped.

Mr. BALL. Where?

Mr. BROWN. After it made the turn and when the shots were fired, it stopped.

Mr. BALL. Did It come to a. complete stop?

Mr. BROWN. That, I couldn't swear to.

Mr. BALL. It appeared to be slowed down some?

Mr. BROWN. Yes; slowed down.

I admire pedantry, even if selective: At its most constructive, as in this instance, it's just so productive of additional proofs for the pro-alterationist case.

Paul

Case in point: Jack's postings of quotes from the motorcycle officers who claim they "rode ahead" and told the lead car that the president has been shot, and that they did so before they drove under the overpass and that since we don't see that happen in the Z film, it was altered. Then Josiah posts pictures contradicting this theory and Jack says all those photos were altered. Pure denial.

Pure sycophancy, in your case, as you plainly haven't a clue about SSID and its shocking dishonesty.

The principle or principles of selection by which Thompson focused on the testimony of some eyewitnesses, while ignoring that emanating, in important cases, from the even better placed, are nowhere articulated and defended in Six Seconds, but can be inferred: If it matched the thesis advanced in his book, it was in. If it didn't, testimony was reworked, mischaracterised, suppressed or ignored.

Like an example or five? Happy to oblige.

Leave DiEugenio out of that group, please.

Jack,

Take a good listen to Di's comments on last week's Black Op radio. They were appalling, as he first denounced pro-alterationists, then conceded there were "anomalies" in the films. It was dreadful stuff, by turns patronising, contradictory, superficial and hypocritical. Has he done some great research? Absolutely. But that doesn't excuse or explain his performance last week. And we shouldn't hesitate to say so.

Paul

For once I think Mr. Rigby is correct. Like Greer, Kellerman has SUSPECT written all over him.

Greer's job was to slow the limo and make JFK a sitting duck. Kellerman stole the body at gunpoint, to prevent a professional autopsy.

Two key players in the plot to kill JFK.

'Fraid so, though obviously much greater responsibility lies far higher up the killing chain.

Now I get it, Rigby. You're a lone nutter sent over to this forum to make us all look ridiculous. Good one.

The SS agent with the gun was Hickey, in the back-up car. Your pretending these witnesses accused Kellerman and Greer of pulling weapons is heinous, IMO. Pure disinformation. Shame on you.

Like Tink “Cool” Thompson and his British equivalent, Austin “Groovy, baby” Powers, you’ve not really moved on much from, say, 1966/7, have you, Pat?

In almost constant attendance upon the dead President was Roy H. Kellerman, Special Agent of the U.S. Secret Service, a devoted and distraught public servant of 23 years’ experience, then assistant special agent in charge of the White House detail. He is an exceptionally conscientious man who was in charge of the security detail on the President’s fatal trip to Texas.

Harold Weisberg. Whitewash II: The FBI-Secret Service Cover-up (NY: Dell Publishing Co. Inc., May 1967), p.184

Weisberg’s paean to the traitor and conspirator Kellerman was drivel in 1966/7, and it remains just that today. Based on pretty much the same evidence available to Weisberg nearly a decade before, Newcomb and Adams recognised his true role and exposed it:

Kellerman’s lies (some of them) examined in Murder From Within, chapter 3, “Execution”:

Roy H. Kellerman, the Secret Service agent in charge of the trip, sat in the right front seat of the limousine. (1) He neither offered warning nor took any action to protect the President.

Kellerman claimed, in an interview with two FBI agents the same day, that after this shot, the President said, "Get me to a hospital."(2) Later, he changed his story and quoted the President as having said, "My God, I am hit." In his testimony before the Warren Commission, which investigated the President's death, Kellerman called the FBI report incorrect. (3)

The shot that struck the President in the throat while he was facing ahead would mean the gunman was in front of the President, and, under these circumstances, Kellerman and the driver, Greer, could not escape suspicion. Having the President talking was Kellerman's way of emphasizing that the President was not struck in the throat.

Contrary to Kellerman's statements, the President was hit in the throat and therefore was unable to speak. According to Mrs. Kennedy, (4) the Governor (5) and his wife, (6) the President said nothing at this point, or later. The limousine driver, Secret Service agent William R. Greer, said he did not remember. (7)

Five days after the assassination, Kellerman tried to lead FBI investigators to believe that the President was shot in the back and not in the throat. Kellerman embellished his point by telling FBI agents that as a reaction to this shot the President reached round to his back with his left hand (8) - an action not shown on the film or described by witnesses.

Notes:

(1) Roy H. Kellerman, “Testimony of Roy H. Kellerman, Special Agent, Secret Service [dated March 9, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 2, pp. 63, 68.

(2) Commission Document No. 7, p.283.

(3) Kellerman, op. cit., pp.94, 95.

(4) Jacqueline Kennedy, op. cit., v. 5, p. 180.

(5) John B. Connally, Jr., op. cit., v. 4, p.134.

(6) Nellie Connally, “Testimony of Mrs. John Bowden Connally, Jr., [date April 21, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 4, p.147.

(7) Greer, op. cit, v. 2, p. 121.

(8) Commission Document No. 7, p.287.

Pat Speer tonight released the findings of a forensic sniffathon organised under the aegis of Gary Mack and the Sixth Form Museum of Correction.

“I can reveal that no, repeat no, aromas remotely suggestive of gunpowder have been detected emanating from the Zapruder original. This should clear the air definitively,” he announced, explaining that a random sample of anti-alterationists, led by Josiah Thompson and Jim DiEugenio, had produced no-takers for the outlandish suggestion that witnesses, both on Elm St and at Parkland Hospital, smelt gunpowder from within the presidential limousine (see below).

“Eleven out of ten us independently concluded what we had agreed in advance - that the whole theory is far-out nonsense invented by those in the grip of conspiratorial phantosmia.” Most of these sinister individuals had been inserted into the plot on November 22, 1963, he went, but had now been entirely discredited by the expert panel of film-sniffers assembled 46 years later.

“There is no credible evidence for the reek of gunpowder,” crowed panel member Craig Lamson, “and we have lots and lots of films and photographs to prove it. Who are you going to believe anyway, me or some guy who actually saw the assassination? It's a no-brainer."

The press conference ended with a rousing chorus of the new American national anthem, “God Bless Halliburton,” followed by the ceremonial burning of an effigy of Jim Fetzer.

Extract from Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams, Murder From Within (Santa Barbara, California: Probe, 1974), chapter 3, “Execution,” chapterlet entitled “Gunpowder”

In addition to the eyewitnesses and ear witnesses, there were also nose witnesses to the murder.

Those who smelled gunpowder at the scene of the shooting helped to pinpoint the source of the shots. Placed on a map (Fig. 3-7), they were within the path of the motorcade or near Elm St. The motorcade headed west down Elm St. into a modest breeze. (1)

Motorcycle escort officer Billy J. Martin, riding one half car length from the left rear fender of the Presidential limousine, recalled, "You could smell the gunpowder…you knew he wasn't far away. When you're that close you can smell the powder burning, why you - you've got to be pretty close to them…you could smell the gunpowder…right there in the street. (2)

Senator Ralph W. Yarborough rode in the second car behind the limousine. He smelled gunpowder in the street (3) and said it clung to the car throughout the race to Parkland Hospital. (4)

Two cars behind Yarborough was the Cabell car. Mrs. Cabell said that she "…was acutely aware of the odor of gunpowder." (5) She added that Congressman Ray Roberts, seated next to her, had mentioned it also. (6)

According to Tom C. Dillard, two cars behind the Cabell car, he "…very definitely smelled gunpowder when the cars moved up at the corner of Elm and Houston Streets." (7)

Vergie Rackley stood in front of the depository building. "She recalled that after the second shot she smelled gunsmoke…" (8)

At the time of the shots, patrolman Joe M. Smith moved from the intersection of Elm and Houston Streets toward the triple underpass. When interviewed at that time, he stated that he smelled gunpowder near the underpass. (9)

Patrolman Earle V. Brown, stationed 100 yards west of the underpass, stated that he heard the shots and then smelled gunpowder as the car sped beneath him. (10)

(1) Billy J. Martin, “Testimony of B. J. Martin [dated April 3, 1964], “ in Hearings, v. 6, p.291.

Marion L. Baker, op. cit., v. 3, p. 245.

Mrs. Robert A. Reid, “Testimony of Mrs. Robert A. Reid [dated March 25, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 3, p. 273.

Arnold L. Rowland, “Testimony of Arnold Lewis Rowland [dated March 10, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 2, p.181.

Luke Mooney, “Testimony of Luke Mooney [dated March 25, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 3, p. 282.

James F. Romack, “Testimony of James Filbert Romack [dated April 8, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 6., p. 280.

A frame from the Muchmore film shows the coats of Ms. Hill and Ms. Moorman blowing in the wind (UPI, Four Days, p. 20).

(2) Interview with Billy J. Martin.

(3) Interview with Sen. Ralph W. Yarborough.

(4) Charles Roberts, The Truth About the Assassination, p.17.

The Texas Observer, Nov. 29, 1963, p. 5.

Seth Kantor, “Kantor Exhibit No. 3. ‘Handwritten notes made by Seth Kantor concerning events surrounding the assassination,’” in Hearings, v. 20, p. 351.

Manchester, op. cit., p. 177 (PB).

(5) Ibid., v. 7, p. 487

(6) Ibid., v. 7, p. 487.

(7) Tom C. Dillard, op. cit., v. 6, p. 165

(8) Vergie Rackley, Commission Document No. 5, pp. 66-67

(9) Joe M. Smith, “Testimony of Joe Marshall Smith [dated July 23, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 7, pp. 534-535.

Note: When interviewed by the FBI on Dec. 9, 1963, Smith denied this and claimed he smelt gunpowder in the parking lot by the depository (Commission Document No. 205 (SSID, JT), p. 310).

(10) Earle V. Brown, “Testimony of Earle V. Brown [dated April 7, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 6, p. 311.