Paul Rigby

What were Kellerman and Greer doing during the shooting? Not very much, according to the Z fake. Some very well-placed eyewitnesses said differently:

George Davis: “[He] saw guns in the hands of the secret service agents with President Kennedy, saw President Kennedy slumped forward, and the police motorcycle escort manouever swiftly about the area,” 22WCH837.

Jean Hill: “There was scrambling around in the front seat…Secret service agents shooting back…I just thought, Oh, goodness, the secret service is shooting back,” 6WCH208-212.

Hugh Betzner, Jr.: “I also saw a man in either the President's car or the car behind his and someone down in one of those cars pulled out what looked like a rifle. I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car,” 19WCH467.

S.M. Holland: “After the first shot the secret service man raised up in the seat with a machine gun and then dropped back down in the seat. And they immediately sped off,” 19WCH480.

Mrs. Marvin Faye Chism: “The two men in the front of the car stood up, and then when the second shot was fired, they all fell down and the car took off just like that,” 19WCH472.

Guns in the hands of Kellerman and Greer? One or both standing up? Shooting, er, "back"? Nah, never happened. It's not in the Z fake!

And because it never happened, no witnesses claimed the presidential limo stank of gunpowder after the shooting.

And if they did, they were wrong. Or mad, or bad, or merely confused.

Utter hoo-ha, Rigby. Muchmore LIED, it's that simple. She sold her film to UPI on 11-25 and was afraid she'd get in trouble with the FBI, so lied.

Thanks for confirming my point, which bears repetition: In order to be an alterationist, one has to dismiss the testimony of the very people they allege took key films and photos.

Bizarre, no?

Well, perhaps no more than the logic which has it that Muchmore was so afraid of the FBI that she lied to its agents, without even greater fear of the consequences of her alleged "lie." And this after her film had supposedly appeared on US TV, and, according to you, been noted by the FBI, so well, indeed, that Shaneyfelt knew nothing about it.

Goodness, your - the alterationist - line on this one is a mess.

The FBI, in fact, did not know of her film for months after, when stills from it magically appeared in a book put out by UPI.

You really ought to get together with Tink and hammer out an agreed line on this one. Tink's still wandering round the forum insisting that the FBI knew about the film as a consequence of its appearance on TV on, presumably, anyone of the three different dates in November he's offered for its debut.

It speaks volumes for your integrity on this, and other, questions, incidentally, that you've never once commented on Tink's meanderings on this question. I hereby afford you the opportunity...go on, seize it!

And yet Jack would have us believe her film was faked after being obtained by the FBI... Are you disagreeing with Jack on this point, or are you really claiming the FBI had a film all along, and somehow convinced Muchmore months later to pretend it was her film?

Yup, I disagree with Jack. The FBI spent the greater portion of the investigation playing catch-up, and very much out of the Secret Service-CIA loop.

Another of those disturbing minor details – in his very first television interview, given on the afternoon of the assassination, Zapruder flat out stated he had filmed the presidential limousine turning from Houston onto Elm. There’s a generous donation to the charity of his/her choice for any reader who can produce a copy of the Z-fake were are familiar with today which includes this sequence, one confirmed, as evidenced above, by a number of the earliest observers of the first version of the Z fake:

http://www.jfk-info.com/wfaa-tv.htm

This transcript is from video tape of the live broadcast seen nationwide on the ABC network at about 2:10pm CST, November 22, 1963. The interviewer, seated on the left, is WFAA-TV program director Jay Watson. On the right, with his hat on the desk, is Abraham Zapruder.

WATSON: A gentleman just walked in our studio that I am meeting for the first time as well as you, this is WFAA-TV in Dallas, Texas. May I have your name please, sir?

ZAPRUDER: My name is Abraham Zapruder.

WATSON: Mr. Zapruda?

ZAPRUDER: Zapruder, yes sir.

WATSON: Zapruda. And would you tell us your story please, sir?

ZAPRUDER: I got out in, uh, about a half-hour earlier to get a good spot to shoot some pictures. And I found a spot, one of these concrete blocks they have down near that park, near the underpass. And I got on top there, there was another girl from my office, she was right behind me. And as I was shooting, as the President was coming down from Houston Street making his turn, it was about a half-way down there, I heard a shot, and he slumped to the side, like this. Then I heard another shot or two, I couldn't say it was one or two, and I saw his head practically open up, all blood and everything, and I kept on shooting. That's about all, I'm just sick, I can't…

Muchmore denies filming the execution scene, Zapruder initially states he filmed a sequence that no longer exists in his "unaltered" film - whatever next, Nix insisting his film had been tampered with? Unthinkable.

Or perhaps not.

I fear this could prove rather a long wait, as Pat contemplates his explanation for his omission of this fascinating piece of irrelevance: Muchmore denied taking any film of the assassination scene. For the benefit of those unfamiliar with her statement to the FBI, dated December 4, 1963, follow this link:

http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/wi..._hsca_0080a.gif

“She said she had a movie camera with her...but she advised that she did not obtain any photographs of the assassination scene”

So, in order to swallow the anti-alterationist Kool-Aid on the question of which film was shown by WNEW-TV at 00:46hrs on the morning of Tuesday, November 26, 1963, you have to discount the testimony of the very woman to whom the anti-alterationists attribute it. It's laughable, but true; and anything but unusual when it comes to the alleged film-takers and their allegedly unadulterated films. Consider the case of the bald guy himself...which I will, in due course.

Rigby...

Herr Speer...

where does that description say Houston and Elm? The Muchmore film shows the car coming round Houston and Main, and then picks up after Kennedy has been shot, EXACTLY as in the description. The Z-film, on the other hand, shows Kennedy smiling and waving BEFORE he is shot. Where is that in the description? The Z-film also shows the car race towards the overpass long after Clint Hill got in the car. Where is that in the description?

The film described is obviously the Muchmore film. Sorry.

Not more than I am at having to point out a teeny-weeny omission here, Pat - want to tell the readers of this thread what Muchmore told the FBI in early December? Or shall I? I'll give you this further opportunity because I wouldn't anyone to conclude that you're the kind of researcher who would withhold evidence embarrassing to your case. You really wouldn't, would you?

But while we wait for you to admit that inconvenient fact, let's dismiss all together any suggestion that the Z film was shown on WNEW-TV in the first hour after midnight on the morning of Tuesday, 26 November:

“Lane’s Defense Brief for Oswald,” published by the National Guardian, 19 December 1963:

”A motion picture taken of the President just before, during, and after the shooting, and demonstrated on television showed that the President was looking directly ahead when the first shot, which entered his throat, was fired. A series of still pictures taken from the motion picture and published in Life magazine on Nov. 29 show show exactly the same situation.”

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/The_critics/L...l_Guardian.html

There, that's put that absurd rumour to bed once and for all.

The conspiracy expands apace. It now extends to the Z fraud’s support acts, and, most unforgivably of all, to the company which, according to the anti-alterationists, snapped up the Muchmore film.

Here’s UPI describing what Mack, Thompson et al would have us believe is the Muchmore film. The latter has long been famous, of course, for the sequence which captured the motorcycle police turning from Houston onto Elm, followed by “the Kennedy motorcade.” Er, it has, hasn't it? Oh well, minor detail:

The Valley Independent, (Monessen, Pennsylvania), Tuesday, November 26, 1963, Page 5

Film Showing Assassination Is Released

NEW YORK (UPI) — United Press International Newsfilm early today was first on the air with exclusive film showing the assassination of President Kennedy.

The film is 16mm enlarged from 8mm. It was shown on a New York City television station.

The sequence, shot by an amateur photographer in Dallas Friday, begins with motorcycle police coming around the corner followed by the Kennedy motorcade.

The President is then seen leaning over when the bullets strike. Mrs. Kennedy puts her right arm around the President and he slumps out of view. The film then shows a Secret Service agent running toward the car.

The film was shown in slow motion and also stopped at key points in the assassination. The scene was shown four times at different speeds and under different magnifications.

Copies have been rushed to United Press Newsfilm clients all over the world.

Same despatch:

1. “Exclusive Films Show Shooting of Kennedy in Dallas,” Logansport Pharos-Tribune, (Logansport, Indiana), Tuesday, November 26, 1963, Page 2

2. “UPI Newsfilm First On Air With Exclusive,” Great Bend Daily Tribune, (Great Bend, Kansas), Tuesday, November 26, 1963, Page 9

3. “UPI Newsfilm Has Shooting On Film,” Humboldt Standard, (Eureka, California), Tuesday, November 26, 1963, p.2

the fact that Thompson was used by the CIA to denounce Garrison,

Sylvia Meagher was the first major Warren critic to denounce Garrison. Was Sylvia a CIA asset also?

And Harold Weisberg? and David Lifton?

Really, Jay, this the best you could come up with? Have another 24 hours to do better.

In the meantime, here's one for you. In the course of his preposterous anti-alterationist tirade, the great one insists not a single witness reported seeing guns in the hands of yer man Greer.

True or false?

The list of the “confused” witnesses grows apace. And every man, Jack and Jill among them part of an immense conspiracy to throw suspicion on the bald guy’s film, in most instances, over a decade before its quasi-official release. It really is outrageous.

The vanishing SS swarm upon the presidential limo, and up the grassy knoll:

1) Earl Cabell: “No; we couldn't tell. We could tell, of course, there was confusion in the presidential car--activity. The Secret Service men ran to that car,” 7WCH479.

2) James Chaney and other unnamed Dallas officers, as related by fellow motorcycle outrider, Marrion L. Baker: “I talked to Jim Chaney…during the time that the Secret Service men were trying to get into the car…from the time the first shot rang out, the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped…I heard several of them say that, Mr. Truly he was standing out there, he said it stopped. Several officers said it stopped completely,” 3WCH265.

3) Norman Similas: “I swung back to look at the car. A Secret Service man ran up with his gun drawn…The Secret Service man opened the car door and I saw the President slumped down to the floor…,” Source: “‘I saw president fall’ – Willowdale man,” Toronto Daily Star, (All Star Night edition), Friday, 22 November 1963, pp.1&13

4) Robert Baskin: “The motorcade ground to a halt. There was a good deal of activity round the President’s car, with Secret Service men running about,” “Day Began As Auspiciously As Any in Kennedy’s Career,” The Dallas Morning News, 23 November 1963, p.2

5) DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Joe Dale (one of two rear mid-motorcade motorcycles): "After the shots were fired, the whole motorcade came to a stop. I stood and looked through the plaza, noticed there was commotion, and saw people running around his [JFK's] car. It started to move, then it slowed again; that's when I saw Mrs. Kennedy coming back on the trunk and another guy [Clint Hill] pushing her back into the car," Larry Sneed. No More Silence (1998), p. 134

The false trail to the knoll:

1) Ronald B. Fischer: “And, after that, we stood there for 10 or 15 seconds and then we ran up to the top of the hill there where all the Secret Service men had run, thinking that that's where the bullets had come from since they seemed to be searching that area over there. They jumped off-out of cars and ran up the side of the hill there and onto the tracks where these passenger--freight cars were,” 6WCH196

2) Jack Franzen: “Mr. FRANZEN advised he and his wife and small son were standing in the grass area west of Houston Street and south of Elm Street at the time the President's motorcade arrived at that location at approximately 12:30 PM on November 22, 1963. He said he heard the sound of an explosion which appeared to him to come from the President's car and noticed small fragments flying inside the President's car and immediately assumed that someone had tossed a firecracker inside the automobile…He noticed the men, who were presumed to be Secret Service Agents, riding in the car directly behind the President's car, unloading from the car, some with firearms in their hands, and noticed police officers and these plain clothesmen [sic] running up the grassy slope across Elm Street from his location and toward a wooded and bushy area located across Elm Street from him… Because of this activity he presumed the shots which were fired came from the shrubbery or bushes toward which these officers appeared to be running,” Statement to the FBI, November 24, 1963: http://www.jfk-online.com/franzen.html

Time to extend our list of conspirators away from Elm and into the rooms and studios where the first version of the Zapruder film was studied and described. Note how tightly knit and consistent these cunning coves were, describing a version of the Z film unknown to us today.

Features in Zapruder public version 1 (Zpv1) absent from or different to Zapruder public version 2 (Zpv2):

1) Presidential limousine turning left from Houston onto Elm

2) No street sign interposed between camera and President at moment of impact of first bullet

3) Shooting took place further up Elm St towards Overpass, either opposite (or “abreast” of) Zapruder, or beginning at the steps leading up to the grassy knoll

4) Connolly’s white shirt visibly covered in blood following impact of shot

5) JFK’s head went forward in response to impact of head shot

Elements of Zpv1 (1) to (5) described in following:

1) Presidential limousine filmed turning left from Houston onto Elm:

• Abraham Zapruder on WFAA-TV, at 2:10pm CST, November 22, 1963: transcript: http://www.jfk-info.com/wfaa-tv.htm

• Dan Rather, CBS radio & TV, 251163: http://www.i-accuse.com/Rudd_Hotelet.html

• UPI (New York), “Film Showing Assassination Is Released,” The Valley Independent, (Monessen, Pennsylvania), Tuesday, November 26, 1963, Page 5 (description of film shown on WNEW-TV, NY, at 00:46hrs, November 26, 1963)

• Arthur J. Snider (Chicago Daily News Service), “Movies Reconstruct Tragedy,” Fort Worth Star-Telegram, (Evening edition), November 27, 1963, section 2, p.1

• Warren Report (U.S. Government Printing Office (1964), p.98

• Roy Kellerman, 090364 (2WCH91): http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm

• Mark Lane. Rush to Judgment: A Critique of the Warren Commission’s Inquiry into the Murders of President John F. Kennedy, Officer J. D. Tippit and Lee Harvey Oswald (London: The Bodley Head Ltd., 1966), p.66, footnote 2

2) No street sign interposed between camera and President at moment of impact of first bullet:

• Dallas Morning News, “Photographer Sells Pictures of Assassination for $25,000,” November 24, 1963

• Dan Rather, CBS radio & TV, 251163 (Richard Trask. Pictures of the Pain, p.87): http://www.i-accuse.com/Rudd_Hotelet.html

• Associated Press (Dallas), "Movie Film Depicts Shooting of Kennedy,” Milwaukee Journal, November 26, 1963, part 1, p.3

• UPI (New York), “Film Showing Assassination Is Released,” The Valley Independent, (Monessen, Pennsylvania), Tuesday, November 26, 1963, Page 5 (description of film shown on WNEW-TV, NY, at 00:46hrs, November 26, 1963)

• UPI (Dallas), “Movie Film Shows Murder of President,” Philadelphia Daily News, Tuesday, 26 November 1963, p.3 (4 star edition)

• Express Staff Reporter (New York, Monday), “The Man Who Got the Historic Pictures,” Daily Express, Tuesday, 26 November 1963, p.10

• John Herbers, “Kennedy Struck by Two Bullets, Doctor Who Attended Him Says,” New York Times, November 27, 1963, p.20

• Arthur J. Snider (Chicago Daily News Service), “Movies Reconstruct Tragedy,” Fort Worth Star-Telegram, (Evening edition), November 27, 1963, section 2, p.1

• “The Man Who Killed Kennedy,” Time, December 6, 1963, p.29

• Abraham Zapruder (7WCH571): http://www.jfk-info.com/wc-zapr.htm

• William Manchester, Look magazine, 040467; Death of a President (London: Pan, paperback, 1968), p.234

3) Shooting took place further up Elm St towards Overpass, either opposite (or “abreast” of) Zapruder, or beginning at the steps leading up to the grassy knoll:

• Associated Press (Dallas), "Movie Film Depicts Shooting of Kennedy,” Milwaukee Journal, November 26, 1963, part 1, p.3

• John Herbers, “Kennedy Struck by Two Bullets, Doctor Who Attended Him Says,” New York Times, November 27, 1963, p.20

• Abraham Zapruder, 7WCH571: http://www.jfk-info.com/wc-zapr.htm

• Harold Feldman, “Fifty-one witnesses: The Grassy Knoll,” The Minority of One, March 1965, p.17

• John Herbers, “Kennedy Struck by Two Bullets, Doctor Who Attended Him Says,” New York Times, November 27, 1963, p.20

4) Connolly’s white shirt visibly covered in blood following impact of shot:

• Dan Rather, CBS, Radio & TV, 251163: http://www.etcfilmunit.com/iaccuse.html

5) JFK’s head went forward in response to impact of head shot:

• Dan Rather, CBS, Radio & TV, 251163 (Richard Trask, Pictures of the Pain (Danvers, Mass.: Yeoman Press, 1994, p.87): http://www.etcfilmunit.com/iaccuse.html

• Associated Press (Dallas), "Movie Film Depicts Shooting of Kennedy,” Milwaukee Journal, November 26, 1963, part 1, p.3

• UPI (Dallas), “Movie Film Shows Murder of President,” Philadelphia Daily News, Tuesday, 26 November 1963, p.3 (4 star edition)

• John Herbers, “Kennedy Struck by Two Bullets, Doctor Who Attended Him Says,” New York Times, November 27, 1963, p.20

• Cartha DeLoach, Hoover’s FBI: The Inside Story by Hoover’s Trusted Lieutenant (1995), p.139: http://www.kenrahn.com/jfk/the_critics/gri...Alteration.html

Most of the newspaper articles cited above can be found in the thread Eleven early print descriptions of the Zapruder film: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8953

As an ancient Russian proverb – that distilled essence of the accumulated peasant wisdom of the millennia, no less – has it: “Beware of White Russians bearing cinematic gifts.” How very true. Once we move beyond the fake film and its motley supporting acts, we are obliged to fall back on one of our deepest and most primitive instincts – the desire to read. Strange things happen when we revert to reading: we find patterns. Here’s another of them:

The vanishing left veer!

From in front:

1. Railway worker Roy Skelton, who viewed the assassination from the overpass:

“then the car [the presidential limousine – PR] got in the right hand lane…and I heard two more shots,” 19WCH496 (same statement in 24H227?)

2. Policeman J.W. Foster, again situated on the overpass:

“immediately after President Kennedy was struck…the car in which he was riding pulled to the curb,” Warren Commission Document 897, pp.20-21.

From side on, 3) to the right of the limousine, 4) to the left of it:

3. Policeman James Chaney and other unnamed Dallas officers, as related by fellow motorcycle outrider, Marrion L. Baker:

“I talked to Jim Chaney…during the time that the Secret Service men were trying to get into the car…from the time the first shot rang out, the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped…I heard several of them say that, Mr. Truly he was standing out there, he said it stopped. Several officers said it stopped completely,” 3WCH265.

4. Jean Hill: “Murder Charge Lodged,” Dallas Times Herald, 23 November 1963, p.8:

“The President passed directly in front of us on our side of the street,” Mrs. Hill said.

From the rear:

5. TSBD employee Mrs. Donald Baker (Virgie Rachley at time of shooting):

Mrs. Baker told Warren Commission attorney Wesley Liebeler that the stray bullet struck the middle of the south-most lane on Elm Street just behind the presidential limousine, 7WCH509-510:

Mr. LIEBELER. How close to the curb on Elm Street was this thing you saw hit; do you remember? It would have been on the curb side near the side away from the Texas School Book Depository Building on the opposite side of the street; is that right?

Mrs. BAKER. Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER. How close to the opposite curb do you think it was?

Mrs. BAKER. It was approximately in the middle of the lane I couldn't be quite sure, but I thought it was in the middle or somewhere along in there could even be wrong about that but I could have sworn it that day.

Mr. LIEBELER. You thought it was sort of toward the middle of the lane?

Mrs. BAKER. Toward the middle of the lane.

Mr. LIEBELER. Of the left-hand lane going toward the underpass; is that correct?

Mrs. BAKER. Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER. Where was the thing that you saw hit the street in relation to the President's car? I mean, was it in front of the car, behind his car, by the side of his car or was it close to the car?

Mrs. BAKER. I thought it was--well--behind it.]

6. TSBD supervisor & board member Roy Truly, who watched the assassination from in front of the TSBD:

“I saw the President’s car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in this area…,” 3WCH220.

Alternatively, it could just be that we really are confronted by a conspiracy so immense…that merely thinking about it could cause pain.

Through laughter.

Forsooth, it’s an epidemic! A fourth lady, not to mention her husband,vanishes from the south curb of Elm! (Well, according to the Z fraud she does…)

Mrs CHARLES HESTER, 2619 Keyhold Street, Irving, Texas, advised that sometime around 12:30 p.m., on November 22, 1963, she and her husband were standing along the street at a place immediately preceding the underpass on Elm Street, where President Kennedy was shot. Mrs HESTER advised she heard two loud noises which sounded like gunshots, and she saw President KENNEDY slump in the seat of the car he was riding in. Her husband grabbed then grabbed her and shoved her to the ground. Shortly thereafter they went across to the north side of the street on an embankment in an attempt to gain shelter. She stated that she believes she and her husband actually had been in the direct line of fire. She did not see anyone with a gun when the shots were fired and stated she could not furnish any information as to exactly where the shots came from. After the President’s car had pulled away from the scene, she and her husband proceeded to their car and left the area as she was very upset,” 24H523

Surely they were all imagining they were on the south curb facing Zapruder's lens? Maybe it was problem with Z's lens? Or could it be - whisper it, it's an idea in embryo - there was a conspiracy to contradict the Z fraud and its supporting acts?

The ladies vanish!

How did Zapruder's camera manage to miss three women, standing as a group, on the south curb of Elm, approximately fifty yards from the corner of Elm and Houston? Answers on postcards, please, for the attention of the Sixth Form Museum of Correction:

Gloria Jeanne Holt, statement to FBI’s SAs Eugene P. Petrakis & A. Raymond Switzer, 18 March 1964:

Left the TSBD “at approximately 12.10 p.m.”

“I left the Depository building and walked down toward the Stemmons expressway underpass west of the building approximately fifty yards and took up a position on the curb on the south side of Elm Street to await the presidential procession. I was accompanied by Sharon Simmons, now Mrs Nelson, and Stella Jacob…I was still standing on the curb at the time the president was shot.” 22H652

Stella Mae Jacob, statement to the FBI’s SAs Eugene P. Petrakis & A. Raymond Switzer, 18 March 1964:

Left the TSBD “at approximately 12.00 p.m.”

“I left the Depository building and walked down toward the Stemmons expressway underpass west of the building approximately fifty yards and took up a position on the curb on the south side of Elm Street...I was accompanied by Sharon Simmons, now Mrs Nelson, and Jeanne Holt…I was still standing on the curb at the time President John F. Kennedy was shot,” 22H655.

Sharon Nelson (nee Simmons), statement to the FBI’s SA E.J. Robertson, 18 March 1964:

Left the TSBD “at about” 12.20 p.m.

“At the time President Kennedy was shot I was standing on the sidewalk on Elm Street midway between the Texas School Book Depository Building and the underpass on Elm Street. I was with Jeannie Holt…and Stella Jacob…,” 22H665.

The presence of the three south Elmers, in a group, in the immediate aftermath of the assassination, was confirmed by Deputy Sheriff C.L. “Lummie” Lewis:

“I ran around the corner and came across Houston Street to Elm Street to the Park. I saw some people there. I began to talk to them getting names and information. I talked to the following named people: 1) Simmons, 2) Holt, 3) Jacobs. See statements taken from all three named people,” 19H526-7

To the extent that Jim Di Eugenio has suggested (via intermediaries) on this forum that I am an agent of disinformation, then he is no friend of mine.

But the FACT that Greer [DELIBERATELY] slowed the limo to facilitate the assassination seems to be a FACT that Mr. Rigby would like to distract everybody's attention away from.

Quite right, Jay, it's a very sophiticated disinfo project, which I round off by insisting that Greer then proceeded to shot his President. That's some "distraction"! The real genius of the scheme lies in its utilisation of contemporaneous eyewitness accounts ignored or misrepresented by advocates of both grassy knoll and TSBD gunmen for the better part of half a century. Clever, no?

Then again, it could just be the truth, and the campaign against it the work of two horses - the knollers and the OCT advocates - from the same stable.

On the related subject of DiEugenio and his Black Op radio rant against the pro-alterationists, note the wretched hypocrisy of DiEugenio denouncing this forum, in language plainly designed to invite comparison with the McAdams "pig-pen," for carrying threads attacking Thompson as an agent of disinformation.

The rant blithely ignored DiEugenio's own denunciation of various CIA penetrations of the research community, and the fact that Thompson was used by the CIA to denounce Garrison, of whom DiEugenio is supposed to be a keen supporter, in late 1967 and thereafter. DiEugenio would appear intent upon drawing a veil over this aspect of Thompson's promo campaign in support of SSID - why?

Hypocrisy? Thy name is DiEugenio.

I forgot to mention these quotes from Officer B.W. Hargis' interviews with the HSCA:

On November 16, 1977: "The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop";

On August 8, 1978: "When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped...";

On December 29, 1978: "... the limousine slowed and nearly stopped ..."

The limo nearly, almost, practically - but never actually - stopped....

Chris

“Motorcade Cop Tells How It Happened,” Sunday News (New York), 24 November 1963, p.25:

Dallas, Nov. 23 (Special) - B. W. Hargis, 31, Dallas motorcycle patrolman who was riding in President Kennedy’s motorcade, gave this account today of the assassination:

“We turned left onto Elm St. off Houston, about half a block from where it happened. I was right alongside the rear fender on the left hand side of the President’s car, near Mrs. Kennedy.

When I heard the first explosion, I knew it was a shot. I thought that Gov. Connally had been hit when I saw him turn toward the President with a real surprised look.

Splattered With Blood

“The President then looked like he was bent over or that he was leaning toward the Governor, talking to him.

As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of his head, spinning it around.

I was splattered with blood.

Then I felt something hit me. It could have been concrete or something, but I thought at first I might have been hit.

Then I saw the limousine stop, and I parked my motorcycle at the side of the road, got off and drew my gun.

And They Took Off

“Then this Secret Service agent (in the President’s car) got his wits about him and they took off. The motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward and announced to the chief that the President had been shot.”

http://www.blackopradio.com/archives2010.html

Show #457

Original airdate: Jan 14th, 2010

Guests: Jim DiEugenio / Peter Philips

Topic: Assassination Research /Project Censored

Play Part One Interview - Jim DiEugenio

A command performance of hypocrisy, contradiction, and rank disinformation. Take a bow, Jim, it was a performance worthy of, well, John McAdams.

It gets funky approx 44 and a half minutes in, when DiEugenio introduces the subject by reference to, yes, William Cooper, whom he promptly denounces as a CIA asset bent on corrupting impressionable minds with a murky copy of the Z fake (version 2). The impression duly left with the uninformed listener that Cooper pioneered the theory, it’s off to the races with a melange of nonsense which repays close examination. But first up the choice of Cooper:

In a posting on the DPF in July last year, I wrote as follows:

Discrediting Secret Service complicity in the elimination of JFK…

Is a branch of assassination research which has attracted few takers. This is curious, because the transparency of the campaign offers easy pickings. If one wants them, of course. Here’s one blogger who plainly doesn’t:

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2009/07/disi...ers-behold.html

“Aangirfan” fails to mention that Milton William Cooper’s Behold a Pale Horse (Flagstaff, Arizona: Light Technology Publishing, 1991) had in its sights one particular theory of “the how” – that William Greer, the driver of the presidential limousine, was responsible. A startling omission, as will become clear, for here is Cooper doing precisely that: “At some point President Kennedy discovered portions of the truth concerning drugs and aliens…[Kennedy] was murdered by the Secret Service agent who drove his car in the motorcade and the act is plainly visible in the Zapruder film…,” p.215. So, the fake film proves it, does it? Of course not, for the film bears little or no resemblance to what actually happened on Elm.

Three chapters later, we are in to “Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion” territory. By astonishing coincidence, David Icke employed much the same admixture in his disinformational farrago, Robot’s Rebellion: The Story of the Turquoise Tracksuit Renaissance (Bath, UK: Gateway Books, 1994), published three years later.

Coincidence? Or a co-ordinated campaign on both sides of the Atlantic?

One important clue lies in what happened next: Those intent upon discrediting the notion of Greer’s role as assassin sought to rewrite the history of the assertion. Despite the fact that it had first been set out in detail as long ago as 1974, in Newcomb and Adams’ Murder From Within (Santa Barbara, California: Probe), a succession of researchers who knew this to be the case began producing essays and web postings which invited the uniformed to believe that Cooper, writing seventeen years later, was the pioneer. And as Cooper (and/or Icke) also promulgated a host of absurdities, the curious were to be frightened off the scent.

A text-book piece of spook work.

The moral of the tale? The next time you see a veteran researcher pretending that William Cooper and David Icke set the Greer-did-it in motion, you’ve just met a xxxx.

Now, should DiEugenio wish to leave uncorrected the entirely false impression that Cooper the asset pioneered the idea of Secret Service responsibility for killing Kennedy, then we know exactly where DiEugenio is coming from.

Jack, seeing as you were ambushed by the HSCA, I'd think you'd understand the truth of my observation. Let's say "the limo stopped and therefore the Z-film is fake and therefore there was a widespread government conspiracy" argument catches on, and is held up, circa 2013, as the proof we have been waiting for. Say, circa 2013, during the run of HBO's mini-series, Larry King invites CTs and LNs on the program to debate the evidence for a conspiracy. Say someone--I don't know--perhaps Jim Fetzer--brings up the limo stopped argument and claims all these witnesses said it stopped. Say that, in response, Gerry Posner or Vinnie Bugliosi, says, "Well, hold on there! That's a bunch of nonsense!" and pulls Bill Newman out and shows him the Z-film, and Newman says "Well, that's what I saw. I guess it didn't stop!" Point. Set. Match. The entire CT community is discredited in one second...

Yeah, let's imagine the horror of a dedicated defender of the OCT ambushing an advocate of an alternative, conspiratorial interpretation by pointing out the latter's mis-use of testimony....

Actually, no need. There are a number of interesting examples of this already out there on the web. Here's "Von Pein" doing precisely that to Vincent Salandria in a review of False Mystery from March 2006:

Mr. Salandria's earwitness selectivity, used to attempt to buttress the idea that shots came from the Grassy Knoll area of Dealey Plaza during the JFK shooting, is rather interesting, somewhat strange, and not very convincing. By utilizing, on page 2 of this publication, the selective testimony of only the witnesses who were located on the bridge atop the Triple Underpass (plus Lee Bowers in the railroad tower to the north of the bridge, who said the shots could have come from "either the Depository or the Underpass", which certainly doesn't FAVOR a Knoll shooter any more than a Depository sniper), Mr. Salandria has (IMO) actually bolstered the "Lone Assassin" position.

The reason I say that is -- Because the cited witnesses (Austin Miller, S.M. Holland, Thomas Murphy, and Frank Reilly) seemed to hear shots from ONLY the Knoll general area, although Reilly is actually closer to a "TSBD" witness than he is a "Knoll" one. And since there is no doubt at all that at least SOME shots did come from the Book Depository, it would tend to undercut and weaken these witness' claims of hearing the gunshots all coming from the front of JFK's car. Which would indicate, logically, that all of these "Triple Underpass witnesses" were located in an area of Dealey Plaza where the Depository shots sounded as if they had come from further west than they actually originated.

Witness Austin Miller, by the way, said he thought the shots had actually come from INSIDE the President's limousine itself! And yet he is still used to try and improve Mr. Salandria's theory of shots from the Knoll area, when he actually heard none from that specific location. Curious. (Although it's possible that the author was using Miller as a "pro-conspiracy" witness based only on another portion of his account of the shooting, when Miller also claimed to see "smoke or steam" on the Knoll following the shots that he thought came "from right there in the car". But this book's author doesn't mention that portion of Miller's account at all on page 2.)

"Curious," indeed, though anything but an isolated example of the gross dishonesty of the handling of Miller's testimony by advocates of a grassy knoll gunman.

Now imagine, if you will, the sheer awfulness of, say, Doug Horne representing the CT-ers in the kind of programme outlined by Pat in his post. Why, the watching audience might even be treated to an honest statement of Miller's belief that the shots came from inside the presidential limo - and that would never do, would it?

You mean McAdams is as dishonest on this issue as....Tink Thompson? Inconceivable.

When Stanley Marcus wrote "The absolutist is the man who thinks he alone possesses wisdom, patriotism, and virtue, who recognizes no obligation to support community decisions with which he disagrees; who...views the political process as a power struggle to impose conformity rather than (as) a means of reconciling differences." He could have been writing about you Jack.

Gosh, what a sinner Jack is - a genuine non-conformist who must be browbeaten into line. As opposed to good old Lee, who gives every indication of a fierce desire to gain brownie points by the zeal of his conformity:

“My own personal experience in such groups taught me that dissenters are frequently only inverted conformists…That is to say, he desperately wants popularity, attention (& sometimes even prestige) so that while he is willing to fight an unpopular cause, he struggles for personal popularity within the band of common dissidents…The result is that…the dissenter takes over the tactics and procedures of those he opposes.”

Harry Zitzler, “From Readers Letters: The Conforming Dissidents,” The Minority of One, May 1962, (Vol 4, No 5 [30]), p.15

And do everyone a favor and stop lumping all the witnesses together in one pot. Tell it how it is Jack. Twelve (12) people say they saw the limo STOP. Forty-Seven (47) saw is slow down.

Yeah, Jack, get honest like Lee - and omit all reference to the eyewitnesses who described Secret Servicemen swarming on the presidential limousine while it was stationary on Elm.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. So be it. I'll sit in the corner wearing my dunces hat and make apologies.

Quick, some one hand him the pointy hat before he slinks off to the corner...to reconsider, if nothing else, the folly of uncritically regurgitating the Duke of Earl's micro-analysis of the witnesses to the limo stop. Mind you, isn't that always the problem with conformists?

That's a valid point, Paul. But how many of these witnesses later claimed the limo did come to a complete stop and that they'd been pressured into saying it did not? And that they believed the Z-film is fake?

That would be zero, I believe.

Your problem here, Pat, is that you know, I know, and every one reading this knows, that you've never conducted any properly systematic survey of the eyewitnesses' responses to the Z fake - which renders your insistence that "zero" believe the film to be fake, well, at most generous, a nonsense. You don't know, and we know you don't.

What we do know, and can prove, is that the WC:

a) failed to call witnesses it considered inconvenient;

sought to browbeat into submission those it considered malleable; and

c) revealed to the attentive - or should that just be "honest"? - reader the existence of two versions of the Z fake:

Mark Lane. Rush to Judgment: A Critique of the Warren Commission’s Inquiry into the Murders of President John F. Kennedy, Officer J. D. Tippit and Lee Harvey Oswald (London: The Bodley Head Ltd., 1966), p.66, footnote 2:

The Commission explained the method it used to designate the individual frames of the film for purposes of reference: “The pictures or frames in the Zapruder film were marked by the agents, with the number ‘1’ given to the first frame where the motorcycles leading the motorcade came into view on Houston Street. The numbers continue in sequence as Zapruder filmed the Presidential limousine as it came around the corner and proceeded down Elm,” (223).

Note 223 to chapter 3 is to be found on p.423 – it cites WCR at 98. On p.418, Lane explains that the version of the WCR he used was the one published by the “U.S. Government Printing Office (1964).”

And you ask us to discount eyewitness testimony which contradict the Z fakes and their supporting filmlets?

Now why would you want to do that?

In late November 1967, Max Lerner, long a zealous stenographer of the plotters’ shifting explanations for the Dallas coup, reviewed Thompson’s SSID, and pronounced himself a convert.

The emergence of serious critics of the Warren Report – by serious Lerner meant academics, men like Epstein, Popkin, and now Thompson – had persuaded him that there was “some kind of collaborative shooting” and that “a trap had been set for the President” (1). At the end of his review, Lerner expressed the hope “That Thompson will leave Kierkegaard alone for a while, and turn to the big problem remaining in the assassination: who were the three men, where did they come from, what plot did they form, by what strange motives were they moved?” (2).

Forty-years on, we know that Lerner pleaded in vain. Not merely did Thompson add nothing to the plot so fuzzily sketched in SSID, he now devotes his time to dismissing the very evidence he adduced for a plot. There is continuity in his work, though, and we overlook it at our peril: He continues to offer a politics-free analysis, whether of Time-Life, Kennedy’s relationship with the CIA, or the Warren Commission.

(1) Max Lerner, “A New Book Shoots Big Holes in Warren Report,” L.A. Times, 26 November 1967, p.P7

(2) Ibid.

Thompson emerged from the same stable, and at much the same time, as Edward J. Epstein. An interesting assessment of Epstein’s role was offered by Marian Kester in a Third Decade essay of July 1985:

"His role seems to be that of a neutralizing agent: his books are interjected as a kind of psychological counterstroke whenever the consensus seems dangerously close to crystallizing around the anti-Castro covert operations hypothesis"(1)

Thompson’s interventions in the past decade or so leave little doubt that he, too, has been deployed as a neutralizing agent. His superficial objections and backslidings – the former faithfully echoed by his very own chorus, the latter assiduously ignored like so many inconvenient witnesses - are interjected as a propaganda counterstroke whenever the consensus seems dangerously close to crystallizing in favour of the wholesale fraudulence of the assassination’s photographic record.

Not working any more, I'm pleased to say.

(1) "Better Red than Ed: Reflections on "Who is Edward J. Epstein?", The Third Decade, Vol. 2 #5, (July 1985), p.11.

Studies by the very experts cited by those claiming people are not consistently wrong also indicate that eyewitnesses to a dramatic event approximate the length of the event as twice as long as its actual time. This means that, for them, time slows down. As a result, a limo slowing down to 4-5 mph might appear to have slowed to a near complete stop.

Scratch an anti-alterationist, and you tend to find a Warren Commission lawyer at work:

Apparently the witnesses were mistaken in remembering that the car stopped; motion pictures, according to the Commission, contradicted them. Yet it seems clear from the way counsel led witnesses that the Commission had considerable resistance to inferences which might be drawn from evidence that the car had stopped at the first shot. “Stopped” was transformed into “seemed to stop” and then “into slowed down.” Such leading of witnesses, which would have been challenged in a courtroom, was facilitated by the Commission’s closed hearings…

The films of the assassination have not been released for public showing, although it is possible to see the most important one, the Zapruder film…at the National Archives. That film does not seem to support the witnesses who said that the car stopped dead. This being so, it is baffling that counsel conducted the questioning somewhat improperly and why the Report presents this evidence with some lack of impartiality…

Sylvia Meagher. Accessories After the Fact: The Warren Commission, The Authorities & The Report (NY: Vintage Books, June 1992 reprint), pp.4-5

Miss this leading of witnesses, did we, Pat? How very convenient.

In late November 1967, Max Lerner, long a zealous stenographer of the plotters’ shifting explanations for the Dallas coup, reviewed Thompson’s SSID, and pronounced himself a convert.

The emergence of serious critics of the Warren Report – by serious Lerner meant academics, men like Epstein, Popkin, and now Thompson – had persuaded him that there was “some kind of collaborative shooting” and that “a trap had been set for the President” (1). At the end of his review, Lerner expressed the hope “That Thompson will leave Kierkegaard alone for a while, and turn to the big problem remaining in the assassination: who were the three men, where did they come from, what plot did they form, by what strange motives were they moved?” (2).

Forty-years on, we know that Lerner pleaded in vain. Not merely did Thompson add nothing to the plot so fuzzily sketched in SSID, he now devotes his time to dismissing the very evidence he adduced for a plot. There is continuity in his work, though, and we overlook it at our peril: He continues to offer a politics-free analysis, whether of Time-Life, Kennedy’s relationship with the CIA, or the Warren Commission.

(1) Max Lerner, “A New Book Shoots Big Holes in Warren Report,” L.A. Times, 26 November 1967, p.P7

(2) Ibid.

I'm missing something because I'm busy and haven't caught up with it. I understand (4) that Chaney is believed to have caught up with Chief Curry's car under the overpass. At what point(s) should Chaney's action be visible in Z in relation to the head shot, or relative to numbered frames in the extant Z-film?

“I was riding on the right rear fender. We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15 to 20 miles per hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and, uh, I looked back over to the left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then the, uh, second shot came, well then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we’re being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital, and he had Parkland standing by. I went on up ahead of the – to notify the officer that was leading the escort that he had been hit and we’re going to have to move out. [The shot,] it was back over my right shoulder,”

Bill Lord interview of James Chaney for WFAA-TV, 11/22/63, cited within Richard Trask. That Day in Dallas: The Photographers Capture on Film The Day President Kennedy Died (Danvers, Mass: Yeoman Press, expanded edition, 2000).

Lee...what YOU THINK about what the witnesses said is irrelevant. Most make very CLEAR statements.

Your thinking that they MEANT something other than what they said is not relevant.

What they said either HAPPENED or DID NOT HAPPEN. Are all 59 of them mistaken?

Read this list:

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v5n1/v5n1costella.pdf

Jack

I believe it slowed down Jack as I mentioned in my previous e-mail...I don't believe it stopped dead.

Not so much a question of whether it stopped, but for how long exactly:

1) Earl Cabell: “No; we couldn't tell. We could tell, of course, there was confusion in the presidential car--activity. The Secret Service men ran to that car,” Source: 7WCH479.

2) James Chaney and other unnamed Dallas officers, as related by fellow motorcycle outrider, Marrion L. Baker: “I talked to Jim Chaney…during the time that the Secret Service men were trying to get into the car…from the time the first shot rang out, the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped…I heard several of them say that, Mr. Truly he was standing out there, he said it stopped. Several officers said it stopped completely,” Source: 3WCH265.

3) Norman Similas: “I swung back to look at the car. A Secret Service man ran up with his gun drawn…The Secret Service man opened the car door and I saw the President slumped down to the floor…,” Source: “‘I saw president fall’ – Willowdale man,” Toronto Daily Star, (All Star Night edition), Friday, 22 November 1963, pp.1&13

4) Robert Baskin: “The motorcade ground to a halt. There was a good deal of activity round the President’s car, with Secret Service men running about,” Source: “Day Began As Auspiciously As Any in Kennedy’s Career,” The Dallas Morning News, 23 November 1963, p.2

5) DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Joe Dale (one of two rear mid-motorcade motorcycles): "After the shots were fired, the whole motorcade came to a stop. I stood and looked through the plaza, noticed there was commotion, and saw people running around his [JFK's] car. It started to move, then it slowed again; that's when I saw Mrs. Kennedy coming back on the trunk and another guy [Clint Hill] pushing her back into the car, " Source: Larry Sneed. No More Silence (1998), p. 134

http://www.archive.org/details/OnTheKenned...iamOconnell1968

On the Kennedy assassination; interview by William O'Connell. Recorded: 29 Dec. 1967. Description: Josiah Thompson is interviewed about his book "Six Seconds in Dallas about the President Kennedy Assassination".(58:24 mins.) BB4627 Pacifica Radio Archives.

At about the 24:25 mark

Josiah Thompson:

"It seems to me that at one's most extreme hazard does one move to the postion of saying that any government investigator lied about evidence, lied about what the evidence was, or fiddled the evidence. For example I think one of the strongest indications of the impact of a bullet from behind...And incidentally seems to me there is much more evidence of the impact of a bullet from the front on the President's head then there is of one from behind....."

(Thompson then mentions the fragments "ballistically matched to Oswald's rifle" found in the front seat of the limousine)

"....And critics have suggested this -- that these fragments were planted by governmental agents since the car was in government hands after the assassination. This throws.... to suggest this sort of thing throws the whole investigation into paralysis it seems to me. Because at that point it becomes impossible to disjoin the good evidence, the clean evidence, from the dirty evidence. In otherwords, one has, then, no longer any criteria for distinguishing between evidence one wants to base conclusions on, and evidence which one wants to throw away as false trails. And, it seems to me, that a logical consequence of doing that at any point in the study of this whole case is to announce that one has ended one's study. Because logically, one can't proceed any farther."

So who was Thompson protecting when he manufactured this fantastic criterion of investigative procedure, and invested such excessive emotion in the baseless assertion which followed it?

The car was flown from Dallas to Washington aboard Air Force jet and driven to the White House garage. Shortly after 10:00 p.m., Deputy Secret Service Chief Paul Paterni, and Floyd Boring, Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the White House detail, began an inspection. In a letter to the Warren Commission, Secret Service Chief Rowley stated: “In running his hands over the front cushion of the automobile, Deputy Chief Paterni found a metallic fragment in the front seat in the area between left and right front seat.” (53 to ch 14). A second fragment was found by Thomas Mills, a hospital corpsman assigned to Dr. Burkley’s office, who was requested by Paterni and Boring to accompany them on the inspection.

Lifton’s Best Evidence: Disguise and Deception in the Assassination of John F. Kennedy(Signet, 1992), p.421

Paterni, as Vince Palamara has pointed out, served in the OSS, in Italy, with James Jesus Angleton, the man whose CI unit, SIG, ran the patsy. Small world.

Now we begin to see only too clearly who Thompson - and, indeed, the entire Axis of Deception which seeks to prop him up - were created to serve.