Paul Rigby

Alas, name-calling no longer says so much. Is there nothing fixed in this turbulent world? Paul

The spooks (MI6/CIA) appear resolved to dump the whole WMD fiasco on the political transients. Watergate all over? We shall see. Here’s a smallish contribution on “why Monbiot shouldn’t be allowed to get away with ignoring the MI6 role”: http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_...kuk-on-sir.html Habakkuk on Sir John Scarlett et al 05 May 2008 in Current Affairs, Habakkuk

I agree with Len, Evan: I dished it out, and Len merely returned fire. Fair enough. That said, I take my hat off to you for making a stand against someone from the side with which you are so closely identified. Paul

Len, have you suffered from this persecution complex for long? I'm concerned. Paul

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9063

And what irks me about the position of such as you and Len is the unrelenting selectivity and hypocrisy of your outrage. I repeat - and nowhere have you or Len sought to offer the hard figures - the petty sums made by 9/11 dissidents is dwarfed by the USTE. The cynicism of the governmental/military/intelligence beneficiaries of 9/11 is off the scale. I have a finite amount of outrage and save it for the people and institutions who really merit it. Then your knowledge of the callousness with which successive hegemonic elements of the US elite has long regarded its own people is pitiful. Now, by all means challenge and expose bogus or ill-thought out claims. The wheat does need sifting from the chaff. But don't pretend a) that all that proclaims dissidence is the real thing and keep a sense of proportion. Complete mistrust of US establishment motives and explanatory narratives should be the starting point for any honest observer, for history - precedent - demands no less. They've provably lied too often. Paul

The above brief "filler" from the NYW-T & S was remarkably accurate:

Funny thing, but I missed the 9/11 dissident march on the Pentagon; not to mention the riots on campus. More history from Len's parallel universe!

Not quite my point, Len. Peter sought to establish moral equivalence between the molehills of money made by even the most successful 9/11 dissident and the Everest cubed raked in by the US State Terrorism Establishment (USTE, henceforth). The comparison was, and remains, grotesque and about as intellectually dishonest as its possible to get on the subject. I note with interest your failure to condemn him for it. Just to be clear on the issue, is it seriously your position that the income derived by, let us say, David Ray Griffin is in the same league as, let us say, Blackwater? Your defensiveness on the subject speaks volumes. Quite right, too. Silverstein blew the gaff - literally - and his meaning was unmistakable within context: "Pull" meant controlled demolition. I'm not quite sure who you thought you convinced, but rest assured, it wasn't me. Paul

You mean the US taxpayer has shelled out trillions in support of, well, who exactly among the 9/11 dissident community? Do you think the poor taxpayer saps should be told? Really, Len, that's nuts. (Keep it up!) Alex Jones and Jason Bemas merit more hostility than Silverstein? That moral compass of yours is functioning as efficiently as ever, I see. Paul

Excellent analysis, Jack, and one not without precedent. Two friends and I spoke with Palamara in the mid-1990s and one of them - take a bow, Doctor - suggested precisely this interpretation. Access, he noted, comes at a price; or is the consequence of "arrangements." Delighted to hear from CD, too. Would someone who has his private email or phone number be so kind as to invite his participation here on the Forum, perhaps he can convince the rest of us and save us all so much time and trouble . Seriously, I think it would benefit him and us and truth. Jack's analysis may well be so - uncanny access can mean uncanny arrangements - or dogged persistance. Limited hangouts have plagued us from the get-go. I'm sure it pays better than being on the side of exposing the truth and fighting the powers that be [which pays in pain and trouble, for the most part - only 'rewarding' in the moral sphere]. Another interesting issue is always the one of timing. Why now? This brings me to an old theme. The real division within the "research community" is not between CT-ers and LN-ers - a thorougly misleading construct - but between those who deny Secret Service complicity and those who follow the abundant evidence of the Dallas detail's centrality to the murder. All the other divisions are secondary. And on the subject of what "access" invariably indicates, I recall Malcolm Muggeridge's line: "No exclusives go to the awkward squad." You bet. Paul

Not unlike those Warren Commission critics and Jim Garrison prolonging the Vietnam war. Bullseye Michael! Seconded.

An inversion of near-perfect moral imbecility. You mean Bush et al didn't profit rather more tangibly from the tragedy? How many shares does the average 9/11 dissident have in Halliburton? "Pull" the other one, Peter, it has WTC7 on the end of it. Er, you did remember three fell that day? Larry Silverstein, the fireman's friend

Excellent analysis, Jack, and one not without precedent. Two friends and I spoke with Palamara in the mid-1990s and one of them - take a bow, Doctor - suggested precisely this interpretation. Access, he noted, comes at a price; or is the consequence of "arrangements." Delighted to hear from CD, too.

Splendid idea. Suggestion for first record? Magazine's "Shot by both sides."

Another terrorist group backed by CIA to add to the list: CIA Protects Al-Qaeda Group From Extradition Jundullah organization, blamed for bombings in Iran, being advised by U.S. intelligence reports ABC News Paul Joseph Watson, Prison Planet, Friday, May 23, 2008 http://prisonplanet.com/articles/may2008/0...ia_protects.htm

How well informed was Burchett during the period in question (the summer of 1963)? Very, as Gareth Porter confirmed in his 2005 Perils of Dominance:

Douglass' book still not arrived, so, please, anyone who has got a copy, put me out of my misery - does he pick up on this extraordinary extract from Parmet? Herbert S. Parmet. JFK: The Presidency of John F. Kennedy (NY: Penguin Books, 1984), pp.334-335: Notes: (43) Taylor, Swords, p.301 (44) George Smathers, JFKL-OH (Don Wilson interview) (45) Michael Forrestal, interview, February 17, 1981 (46) Blair Clark, interview, July 20, 1977 (47) Michael Forrestal, interview, February 15, 1981 (48) Torbert Macdonald, Jr., interview, August 6, 1979 (49) Phyllis Macdonald, interview, August 9, 1979 (50) Confidential interview, July 25, 1977 (51) Ibid.

Herbert S. Parmet. JFK: The Presidency of John F. Kennedy (NY: Penguin Books, 1984), pp.334-335: Notes: (43) Taylor, Swords, p.301 (44) George Smathers, JFKL-OH (Don Wilson interview) (45) Michael Forrestal, interview, February 17, 1981 (46) Blair Clark, interview, July 20, 1977 (47) Michael Forrestal, interview, February 15, 1981 (48) Torbert Macdonald, Jr., interview, August 6, 1979 (49) Phyllis Macdonald, interview, August 9, 1979 (50) Confidential interview, July 25, 1977 (51) Ibid.

Jan, I fear we're missing a trick here. Could this be a distraction from something - or someone - else? Then again, we appear to be confronted by an MI5 honey-trap S&M squad, one which presumably has other, long-established clients. Are we - the press - being invited to follow the yellow brick road to the real target of the operation? Just a thought or zwei. Paul

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3953837.ece Ever wondered at the relationship between Britain's tabloids and the motley assortment of rightist nutters in our intelligence services? Well, even if you haven't, there's still more than enough to enjoy in this magnificently sordid tale. Bottoms up for the spooks! From The Sunday Times May 18, 2008 MI5 linked to Max Mosley sex scandal David Leppard An MI5 officer has been forced to resign after admitting that his wife was a prostitute who took part in a notorious “Nazi-style orgy” with Max Mosley, the Formula One racing chief. The intelligence officer, who cannot be named for security reasons, left the service last month after it emerged that his wife was one of the five call girls who took part in the sadomasochistic sex session with Mosley. Exposure of the lurid orgy led to calls for Mosley, the son of Sir Oswald Mosley, the wartime British fascist leader, to step down from his post as president of the FIA, the governing body of world motor sport. In an extraordinary turn of events yesterday, MI5 was forced to deny through Whitehall channels that the orgy had been a “sting” that it had set up to discredit Mosley. “Any suggestion that the service was involved in setting up Mosley is total nonsense,” a senior Whitehall official said. The official did disclose, however, that one of MI5’s officers had left the agency after his wife’s involvement as a call girl in the orgy became known. “I cannot talk about individual cases, but we do expect high standards of behaviour from all staff at all times, both professionally and privately,” the official said. “In any case where a member of staff is believed to have fallen below those standards, action will be taken.” The officer is understood to be in his forties and to have served in the military before joining MI5, where he was involved in surveillance operations. The disclosure is a severe embarrassment to Jonathan Evans, director-general of MI5, who is understood to have informed Gordon Brown and Jacqui Smith, the home secretary, and assured them the agency was not involved in any sting. Questions will now be asked about why the service’s vetting procedures failed to expose the secret, which could have made the officer vulnerable to blackmail. Mosley, who is 68 and has been married since 1960, is one of the most powerful men in world sport. His father was a hate figure who led the British Union of Fascists in the 1930s and 1940s. His mother was the society beauty Diana Mitford, a great admirer of Adolf Hitler. The F1 boss’s five-hour sex session with the five call girls took place in an underground “torture chamber” in Chelsea, west London. The Oxford-educated former barrister is alleged to have re-enacted a concentration camp scene in which he played the role of both guard and inmate. The session is alleged to have involved prostitutes dressed as German officers and camp inmates. It was secretly caught on video by one of the call girls, who used the name Mistress Abi. Sources said it was Abi’s husband who worked for MI5 and that she sold the story to the News of the World newspaper for an undisclosed sum. According to the paper, Mistress Abi wore a Luftwaffe uniform during the session and oversaw beatings of Mosley. In the video Mosley can be seen standing naked as Abi ties him up with chains before ordering him to lie face down on the bed. Later she screams: “Face down! Did I say move? We don’t want you comfortable.” Mosley was condemned by Jewish groups and leading figures in the motor racing world. He was snubbed by the crown prince of Bahrain, who told him not to attend the Bahrain Grand Prix last month. Sir Jackie Stewart, the former world motor racing champion, said that Mosley’s position was “untenable”. The Monaco royal family, the Grimaldis, have made it clear that he is not welcome at next Sunday’s showpiece grand prix in the principality. Mosley has been unapologetic and has claimed that he needs to stay on to fight the Nazi allegations in a libel action. He denied the orgy had any Nazi theme and said it was “harmless” and “completely legal”. Disclosure of the MI5 officer’s role appears to be his latest tactic in a desperate attempt to save his job. “This is an astonishing piece of information, which I will pass on to my legal advisers,” he said last night. MI5 employs 3,500 people in the fight against Al-Qaeda and hostile powers and prides itself on its discretion. It has been horrified to discover that an officer has become involved, even indirectly, in a high-profile sex scandal. The service will have been forced to conduct a thorough review of the officer’s work and personal life to establish whether he has put any state secrets at risk. Security sources say that in any case where an MI5 officer or a close family member is involved in prostitution there is a risk that their integrity — and hence national security — could be compromised. One official said: “Clearly there would be a conflict there for any member of the service. Prostitutes by the very nature of their business will be connected to people who are probably in the criminal fraternity.” An internal MI5 investigation is trying to establish whether the officer knew his wife was involved in prostitution and whether he was involved in her business affairs. The matter is also being examined by the Quest security company, run by Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington, the former Metropolitan police commissioner who investigated the death of Diana, Princess of Wales. Quest was already working for the FIA when it was asked to investigate the Mosley affair. Mosley is facing a confidence vote in a secret ballot of the 220 members of the FIA assembly in Paris on June 3. He has written to the presidents of member clubs painting a doomsday scenario if he is forced out of office. He says he needs to stay at the helm of the Formula One governing body until October next year in the interests of the sport. The suggestion of MI5 involvement in the Mosley scandal will bring back echoes of the role that the spy service had in monitoring his father. Documents released by the Public Records Office in 2002 showed how the intelligence agency had planted unnamed informants inside the British Union of Fascists. They reported on him until his arrest and detention in 1940.

You got that one right...

Upon reflection - well, two hours or so in the sun gardening while waiting for a plumber - I've decided I'm a hypocrite. In the somewhat improbable event the Beeb came to me and said "make a film on the Z film" or Richard Starnes, reasonable budget, no censorship, would I take up the offer? My goodness, what a temptation, and what a dilemma. Very probably. Under an alias. The hypocrite. Times two.

Fair point. Paul