Myra Bronstein
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Germany Orders 13 Arrests Over Alleged CIA Kidnapping (Update3)
By Patrick Donahue
Jan. 31 (Bloomberg) -- A court in Munich ordered the arrest of 13 people for the alleged abduction of Khaled el-Masri, a German citizen who says he was seized by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency and taken to a secret prison in Afghanistan.
Evidence collected by prosecutors yielded ``clearly identifiable'' individuals who may be undercover CIA agents, the Munich prosecutor, which obtained the warrants, said today on its Web site. The 13 could be charged with deprivation of liberty and aggravated assault for the alleged seizure of el-Masri on Dec. 31, 2003, in Macedonia.
El-Masri's claim of being kidnapped and flown to a prison where he was subjected to coercive interrogation has sparked a parliamentary probe in Germany and cast light on the U.S. practice of capturing terror suspects abroad and sending them to a third country, or ``extraordinary rendition.''
...
Broadcaster Norddeutscher Rundfunk reported that most of the suspects live in North Carolina and three of them have refused to address the allegations when confronted. NDR said the crew operated out of Majorca and worked for Aero Contractors, the successor of the CIA's former secret airline Air America.
CIA spokesman Mark Mansfield, at the organization's Langley, Virginia, headquarters, declined to comment, as did Robert Wood, the press attaché at the U.S. embassy in Berlin.
The investigation is one of several European legal procedures examining alleged U.S. renditions. Milan prosecutors say CIA and Italian operatives kidnapped an Egyptian cleric in 2003 and flew him to Egypt, where he was tortured during questioning. Italy's former intelligence chief, Nicolo Pollari, told a court this week that he's being used as a scapegoat by prosecutors.
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Chancellor Angela Merkel said after talks with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Dec. 6, 2005, in Berlin that the two had discussed el-Masri and that the ``the U.S. conceded'' that the seizure was ``a mistake.'' While U.S. officials later disputed Merkel's statement, the German government has said Merkel's statement ``can stand as it is.''
Last May, the CIA asked a judge to dismiss el-Masri's lawsuit because it involves secret information that can't be disclosed in court. The American Civil Liberties Union, which represented el-Masri, and other human rights groups have said such abductions violate international law and Bush administration pledges against torture.
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To contact the reporter on this story: Patrick Donahue in Berlin at pdonahue1@bloomberg.net .
Last Updated: January 31, 2007 10:21 EST
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...p;refer=germany
(Bold text added by me/Myra.)
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FBI turns to broad new wiretap method
By Declan McCullagh, CNET News.com
Published on ZDNet News: January 30, 2007, 4:00 AM PT
The FBI appears to have adopted an invasive Internet surveillance technique that collects far more data on innocent Americans than previously has been disclosed.
Instead of recording only what a particular suspect is doing, agents conducting investigations appear to be assembling the activities of thousands of Internet users at a time into massive databases, according to current and former officials. That database can subsequently be queried for names, e-mail addresses or keywords.
Such a technique is broader and potentially more intrusive than the FBI's Carnivore surveillance system, later renamed DCS1000. It raises concerns similar to those stirred by widespread Internet monitoring that the National Security Agency is said to have done, according to documents that have surfaced in one federal lawsuit, and may stretch the bounds of what's legally permissible.
Call it the vacuum-cleaner approach. It's employed when police have obtained a court order and an Internet service provider can't "isolate the particular person or IP address" because of technical constraints, says Paul Ohm, a former trial attorney at the Justice Department's Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section. (An Internet Protocol address is a series of digits that can identify an individual computer.)
That kind of full-pipe surveillance can record all Internet traffic, including Web browsing--or, optionally, only certain subsets such as all e-mail messages flowing through the network. Interception typically takes place inside an Internet provider's network at the junction point of a router or network switch.
The technique came to light at the Search & Seizure in the Digital Age symposium held at Stanford University's law school on Friday. Ohm, who is now a law professor at the University of Colorado at Boulder, and Richard Downing, a CCIPS assistant deputy chief, discussed it during the symposium.
In a telephone conversation afterward, Ohm said that full-pipe recording has become federal agents' default method for Internet surveillance. "You collect wherever you can on the (network) segment," he said. "If it happens to be the segment that has a lot of IP addresses, you don't throw away the other IP addresses. You do that after the fact."
"You intercept first and you use whatever filtering, data mining to get at the information about the person you're trying to monitor," he added.
On Monday, a Justice Department representative would not immediately answer questions about this kind of surveillance technique.
"What they're doing is even worse than Carnivore," said Kevin Bankston, a staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation who attended the Stanford event. "What they're doing is intercepting everyone and then choosing their targets."
When the FBI announced two years ago it had abandoned Carnivore, news reports said that the bureau would increasingly rely on Internet providers to conduct the surveillance and reimburse them for costs. While Carnivore was the subject of congressional scrutiny and outside audits, the FBI's current Internet eavesdropping techniques have received little attention.
Carnivore apparently did not perform full-pipe recording. A technical report (PDF: "Independent Technical Review of the Carnivore System") from December 2000 prepared for the Justice Department said that Carnivore "accumulates no data other than that which passes its filters" and that it saves packets "for later analysis only after they are positively linked by the filter settings to a target."
One reason why the full-pipe technique raises novel legal questions is that under federal law, the FBI must perform what's called "minimization."
Federal law says that agents must "minimize the interception of communications not otherwise subject to interception" and keep the supervising judge informed of what's happening. Minimization is designed to provide at least a modicum of privacy by limiting police eavesdropping on innocuous conversations.
Prosecutors routinely hold presurveillance "minimization meetings" with investigators to discuss ground rules. Common investigatory rules permit agents to listen in on a phone call for two minutes at a time, with at least one minute elapsing between the spot-monitoring sessions.
That section of federal law mentions only real-time interception--and does not explicitly authorize the creation of a database with information on thousands of innocent targets.
But a nearby sentence adds: "In the event the intercepted communication is in a code or foreign language, and an expert in that foreign language or code is not reasonably available during the interception period, minimization may be accomplished as soon as practicable after such interception."
Downing, the assistant deputy chief at the Justice Department's computer crime section, pointed to that language on Friday. Because digital communications amount to a foreign language or code, he said, federal agents are legally permitted to record everything and sort through it later. (Downing stressed that he was not speaking on behalf of the Justice Department.)
"Take a look at the legislative history from the mid '90s," Downing said. "It's pretty clear from that that Congress very much intended it to apply to
electronic types of wiretapping."
EFF's Bankston disagrees. He said that the FBI is "collecting and apparently storing indefinitely the communications of thousands--if not hundreds of thousands--of innocent Americans in violation of the Wiretap Act and the 4th Amendment to the Constitution."
Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington, D.C., said a reasonable approach would be to require that federal agents only receive information that's explicitly permitted by the court order. "The obligation should be on both the (Internet provider) and the government to make sure that only the information responsive to the warrant is disclosed to the government," he said.
Courts have been wrestling with minimization requirements for over a generation. In a 1978 Supreme Court decision, Scott v. United States, the justices upheld police wiretaps of people suspected of selling illegal drugs.
But in his majority opinion, Justice William Rehnquist said that broad monitoring to nab one suspect might go too far. "If the agents are permitted to tap a public telephone because one individual is thought to be placing bets over the phone, substantial doubts as to minimization may arise if the agents listen to every call which goes out over that phone regardless of who places the call," he wrote.
Another unanswered question is whether a database of recorded Internet communications can legally be mined for information about unrelated criminal offenses such as drug use, copyright infringement or tax crimes. One 1978 case, U.S. v. Pine, said that investigators could continue to listen in on a telephone line when other illegal activities--not specified in the original wiretap order--were being discussed. Those discussions could then be used against a defendant in a criminal prosecution.
Ohm, the former Justice Department attorney who presented a paper on the Fourth Amendment, said he has doubts about the constitutionality of full-pipe recording. "The question that's interesting, although I don't know whether it's so clear, is whether this is illegal, whether it's constitutional," he said. "Is Congress even aware they're doing this? I don't know the answers."
YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
President Kennedy never would have ok'd this kind of crap. This kind of crap is part of the reason President Kennedy was murdered. And visa versa...
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I have had a lot of complaints recently about the insulting comments of some members of this forum. The names of certain people are constantly being mentioned. They are nearly always about posts on threads about the photographic evidence concerning the JFK assassination, 9/11 conspiracies and moon landings. In virtually every case, the culprits are Americans. I suppose this abusive behaviour must be part of their culture, however, people from outside the United States find it very offensive.
I spend a considerable amount of money on this forum. We recently upgraded to a much more expensive package. I also spend a great deal of time on this forum. This is in itself an expensive business as I am self-employed. I do not have the time to monitor these people. Especially as they tend to post on threads that I have little interest in.
Warnings do not seem to work. Therefore, I am considering banning the worst offenders from the forum. Do you agree? I await your advice on how to proceed.
This makes me really uncomfortable. Banning people is a slippery slope.
I've always appreciated John's restraint in dealing with jerks. It's resulted, IMO, in a forum where I feel that I can police my own behavior, aided by the many people I respect. I don't feel muzzled. I think the result is an environment where conversations can evolve into some unexpected and interesting ways. I feel like I can ask anything without fear of censor. Also, swearing is one of my hobbies. I don't direct it at real people, just at faux-gov't nazis, but I wouldn't want free-range swearing to suddenly get policed.
I'm also concerned that John would end up spending an inordinate amount of time on moderation and on dealing with various online brats, and this would cut into his productivity and research. I really don't think he should have to babysit... Ideally.
However, in spite of my queasiness at the prospect of more moderation, I don't have much stomach for the ongoing attacks on--in particular--Jack White's work. He's targeting precisely because he's credible, knowledgeable, passionate, and productive--ergo a threat to the lies. I'm sick of a certain obvious person who hounds Jack relentlessly, who IMO is a out-and-out xxxxx.
So, I'm sorta all over the place on this subject. But the bottom line is that I'm concluding that only trolls should be banned if anybody is. I realize that fingering someone as a "xxxxx" is subjective and iffy. I'd define a xxxxx as someone who is here just to disrupt, and offers no research or outside sources or viewpoints aside from parroting the anti-conspiracy party line.
To be clear, if a contributing member becomes emotional or frustrated or lashes out from time to time, that does NOT make them a xxxxx, that just makes them human. If a member posts information and/or sincere thoughts and/or research material/graphics, and also happens to be a smartass, that does NOT make them a xxxxx, that just makes them a smartass.
By contrast, if someone merely mocks good research and/or sound opinion, or if they keep contaminating threads so that their bullxxxx posts are at the bottom making other members avoid the threads, I think they're a xxxxx.
If anyone is banned it should only be hard-core trolls.
Thanks for asking for our input John.
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Good Day.... from the AUSTIN, TX ABC-TV channel “KVUE”
http://www.kvue.com/news/state/stories/013...h.340116c9.html
<QUOTE>
JFK hearse to be sold
Car that took coffin to Love Field to be auctioned in May
By MICHAEL E. YOUNG / The Dallas Morning News
myoung@dallasnews.com
The white Cadillac hearse earned its place in American history for a somber three-mile drive from Parkland Memorial Hospital to Dallas Love Field the afternoon of Nov. 22, 1963.
Inside, a bronze coffin carried the body of President John F. Kennedy, his widow within arm's reach, his personal physician and a Secret Service agent nearby. Another Secret Service agent took the wheel.
The trip took 10 minutes, 10 minutes of an extraordinary and tragic afternoon.
The hearse, the first to roll off the assembly line for Cadillac's 1964 model year, remained in use for a few more years before being sold to a private owner in 1968.
But in May, it will be back in the public view, up for auction at a sale of rare and classic cars in suburban Houston.
"We think it will end up in a museum," said John Lyons, vice president of sales and marketing for the Worldwide Group, the auction company handling the May 5 sale. "Whether it will be bought by a museum or bought and donated, we don't know."
With a body built by the Miller-Meteor factory in Piqua, Ohio, the hearse arrived in Dallas in October 1963 for display at a national funeral directors convention, Mr. Lyons said. When the convention ended, the car was purchased by the O'Neal funeral home of Dallas, which provided hearse and ambulance services for the city.
"The owner happened to be at the hospital on other business when JFK was brought in," Mr. Lyons said, "and he called an office accountant and told them to put the nicest coffin they had in the brand-new Cadillac and bring it right over.
"He understood the gravity of what had happened."
Aubrey Rike, then a 25-year-old driver for O'Neal, witnessed some of the most touching moments that day.
In a Nov. 23, 1963, story in The Dallas Morning News, he described how first lady Jacqueline Kennedy sobbed as she removed her gold wedding band, gently placed it on her husband's ring finger, then bent and kissed his hand.
He helped put the president's body in the bronze coffin and carry it to a quiet room while officials made arrangements to release the body. Mrs. Kennedy went into the room, alone, sat in a chair and leaned on the coffin.
Later, Mr. Rike helped put the coffin in the white Cadillac hearse and helped Mrs. Kennedy into the back.
"When I helped her into the coach," he said, "she smiled and thanked me."
At the end of the flight back to Washington, D.C., a Navy ambulance picked up the president's coffin and carried it to Bethesda Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Md.
"At the request of Bobby Kennedy [the president's brother and attorney general], that car and the casket were destroyed," Mr. Lyons said.
Ardeen Vaughan of Alvarado eventually purchased the Cadillac and has owned it since, Mr. Lyons said.
"It was painted brown at one point and was later restored to the original color of white," he said. "The interior hasn't been touched."
In the 1 to 6 scale used in the high-end auto auction business – with 1 being a car suitable for parts with some missing and 6 being better than new – the presidential hearse rates a 4, Mr. Lyons said.
"It's a nice drive-quality car, what people call 'a 10-footer,' meaning it looks great from 10 feet away."
But condition alone doesn't set the price for something like this, he said.
"We know the question of price is going to come up," Mr. Lyons said, "but I really can't put an estimate on it yet.
"Basically, the talking point on that is this is the first time the hearse has been available."
<END QUOTE>
Best Regards in Research,
Don
Don Roberdeau
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly
ROSEMARY WILLIS 2nd Headsnap; Westward, Ultrafast, & Towards the "Grassy Knoll"
BOND Photos Do Not Timestamp Gordon Arnold
T ogether
E veryone
A chieves
M ore
"Drehm seemed to think the shots came from in FRONT OF or BESIDE the President." (my EMPHASIS)
----CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza attack witness, quoted only minutes after the attack, and while he is still standing within Dealey Plaza (11-22-63 "Dallas Times Herald," fifth & final daily edition)
On one hand this makes me sick. On the other hand I welcome any attention to this crime for which the criminals still run free (in the White House no less).
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Technically it's my comments that Jack objected to and therefore to Blame Bill for that is unfair. That said, I don't mean to insult anyone particularly. I feel strongly that Costellas frames which are highly altered by the various processes applied to the frames cannot be taken to represent the Z film and as they ARE altered, they're known to be so, they're documented as such, of course they will show alteration. Even cursory comparison with earlier generation prints show that. Flaws which are so important are washed out. Fine detail disappears. When you compress data to the degree that Costella has done much of it simply disappears and instead the remnants are bled into each others spaces and data is created. On top of that he has altered the color maps. Again data is created and disappears.
A rough analogy is taking a newspaper photo and scrunchng it together to create folds and then ironing it flat while some creases remain so the photo is now smaller. Then a photo is taken of that and the creases smoothed or blended or averaged out to MAKE IT LOOK good.
It looks good. It's not good.
As Jack points out, the solution is making the originals available. Until that happens what is available must be properly understood to be what it is. And in Costella frames there is what, if the Z film is considered public property, (USA citizens of course) we have that defaced and falsely represented.
Thanks, John...your final paragraph is absolutely correct. I was not criticizing you personally,
just the inference that Costella deliberately has misrepresented the film. IT IS THE BEST
AVAILABLE THAT I KNOW OF, without the original film or the 4x5 copies. It certainly is superior
to the DVD he took it from, SINCE HE CORRECTED FOR THE SERIOUS ERROR IN ASPECT RATIO
on the DVD! Do you admit that correction of the aspect ratio of IOAA was proper? Do you disagree
that correction of the B&H lens pincushion distortion was proper? This was necessary to match
actual photos of the plaza.
Jack
The Z-film is so suspect to me that it has lost the benefit of the doubt. I'll assume it's bogus unless it's proven otherwise. So I'm not gonna analyze it to death. I'm just not gonna rely on it in any way. It's a red herring as far as I'm concerned.
I mean, my god, it was in the Time/Life/CIA vault for years...
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"Harvey and Lee" may have some good points, Lee was certainly impersonated by others to nail him as the patsy, but the core thesis that the Lee Harvey Oswald "defecting" to Russia, was another person than the one shot by Jack Ruby, is preposterous. In fact it can be easily disproven, with a voice tape of Lee in Russia that surfaced in recent years. It's the same voice that exclaimed "I'm just a patsy!"
I agree about the dual Oswald premise. I consider it pretty absurd, one of the few places I draw the credibility line. Furthermore, I don't care if it's true because it doesn't change the bigger truth. A great president was murdered by and for war profiteers in the CIA; patsies and back up patsies were in place. I'm after bigger fish than the patsies.
I want Bush and his nazi klan to squirm under the bright light of exposure. Truth is the only justice President Kennedy, and his brother and son and Dr King and Malcolm X, will get--but I'll take it.
Ms. Mellon's speech has just the right message. Past is prelude. There's a reason why the fascists in the USA don't want Americans to know history, and the reason is explained in this speech. 'Cause then we'll understand the present.
Incidentally, I can't believe that bastard Poppy/Godfather Bush had the gall to try to prop up the huge steaming pile that is the Warren Report, at his fellow bastard's funeral. Even congress doesn't try to pretend that's true anymore, but good ol' Bush knows that Americans are so uninformed that some will gobble it up. xxxxers.
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Recently everytime I go to the forum I am forced to log in before I can even preview posts. Quite often I would just read posts etc. only logging in to make an attempt at contribution or to view pictures.
Does everyone else experience this. As I type there are 16 folk on the forum 7 members, 7 guests and 2 anonymous. I assume this is the whole education forum and not just the JFK section?
Has there been a policy change applied, and if so, is it just to the JFK section?
Cheers
Gary
Yup, same here. In fact its part of the reason I post less frequently, 'cause I'm so lazy I never changed my password so I have to look it up and don't bother unless I have something earthshaking (like this) to say.
It sure precludes the spontaneous response. But I understand your reason Andy and appreciate the explanation. This forum has a big ol' bullseye on it.
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I just came across these quotes from Senator Ted Kennedy and had to share them. I'm so proud that he had the courage--when it mattered--to oppose the Iraq invasion, and now considers it the best vote of his long Senate career. That's leadership IMO.
"My vote against this misbegotten war is the best vote I have cast in the United States Senate since I was elected in 1962," Kennedy said. "And my call more than a year ago - more than a year ago - to bring our troops home is one of my proudest moments."
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/6/3/121646.shtml
"Well, first of all, I was opposed to the war. It was the best vote that I ever had in the United States Senate. And in January of 2005, I laid out a pathway toward what I think would have been reconciliation and success in Iraq, two years ago, that called for the reduction of troops, the redeployment of troops, talked about the Iraqis moving ahead in terms of the reconciliation and talked about the regional kinds of diplomacy. That was two years ago.
Now, one thing about the Democrats is we will support our troops, but we also can support our troops so they are not in harm's way. And I think that's a very important..."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,237021,00.html
"KING: You called Iraq the overriding issue. You voted to go there or not?
KENNEDY: No. The best vote I cast in the United States Senate was..
KING: The best?
KENNEDY: The best vote, best vote I cast in the United States Senate (INAUDIBLE).
KING: In your life?
KENNEDY: Absolutely.
KING: Was not to go to Iraq?
KENNEDY: Yes, not to go to Iraq.
KING: Why did you vote against?
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Not much caring whom I might offend with this post, my only thoughts are that another lying, cheating, blackmailing, murdering, conspirator and traitor is dead. My only remorse is that he was never placed under hostile interrogation !
Regarding his fiances, does anyone believe that this man died destitute?
Charlie Black
Was he murdered? He had agreed to give interviews to the media in order to promote his book that was due out in March. I can imagine that the CIA was pleased to hear of his death.
Can't ever rule out murder with this mob. And he died on a very congested news day--what with the scheduled STOU and more--where his obit would get buried along with his rancid putrid carcass.
Good riddance ya bastard.
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I've got nothing to add to this already great post, but to say that I'm glad to see your name pop up again, Myra. I'm always elated to find your valuable input here on the forum.
And, if that's what some folks might consider to be an " 'attaboy" to you? I don't give a rat's ass. It's how I feel and what I meant it to be.
Ter
I got no problem with attaboys! In fact I encourage them.
Thanks Terry. You made my day. (Of course it's early; the day could still go South.)
Myra
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I'd like to better understand your position, Ron.
Do you hold the view that any and all political activity is futile? Do you believe that everyone involved in politics, by definition, is a "pathetic human being"? Are there any exceptions?
Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline and fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed. And there is no way to get it back, particularly if it never existed. Do I have to be a party to what it's become, because I was born here?
I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave. But there are plenty of Americans who have (I believe Peter Lemkin, for example, is an American who lives abroad, though I'm not familiar with his circumstances.), and I envy them all. I would feel so much cleaner living in some other country.
Well I find that anger and disgust and embarrassment very understandable Ron. Though I'm starting to think it would be hard to go anyplace where the American Empire can't control it. The sun never sets on it you know...
It's less understandable to direct that bitterness at the victim, and Ted Kennedy is certainly that. His two older brothers murdered, one attempt on his life (in an airplane crash that killed others and seriously injured Senator Kennedy) and--as Dawn noted--the "dire warning" of Chappaquidick. ("If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick." --John Dean, 1973/http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html.) And hell yes John Kennedy Junior was murdered.
His whole damn family slaughtered, his own life threatened, his career damaged by the Rulers, and the ongoing smears of him remind me of the post-assassination assassination--also ongoing--of President Kennedy through propaganda. All Kennedys must be discredited so that no one cares enough to learn some history and thereby understand the present. So he's a victim in that sense too. Yet he continues to "have a go."
I hope you know that there were only 21 Democratic Senators who had the courage and integrity to vote against the Iraq invasion in 2002. Senator Kennedy was one of them Ron. Another in that (too) elite group was the *late* Paul Wellstone. Senator Kennedy is most definitely showing courage, and routinely gives some of the most blistering and pointed speeches against the regime. He's having a helluva go. And he does not deserve to be called names by people who can't possibly comprehend what he's had to endure over the decades as his family is picked off one by one and he lives in the crosshairs.
So even if he wasn't a brave and principled Senator I'd, as Sid said, give him the benefit of the doubt.
Sid>"Without claiming his voting record - or anything else about him - is perfect, I think fair-minded observers might agree he's been one of the more effective legislators in Congress with a much better-than-average commitment to decent, progressive policies over a long period of time."
I agree Sid.
And thank you for posting the Senator's bold remarks after the JEL (Just Enough to Lose, per Time Magazine... ol' Luce must be spinning in his hell) surge was announced.
Ron>"I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave."
That's just beautifully put Ron. I'm sure many can relate. It's damn hard to stay upbeat nowadays. Still, there's work to be done...
Well said, Myra!
And yes, the gaze of the Evil Alliance is ubiquitous - there's no safe hideaway on the planet.
Here in Oz, the media is so monolithic and the sheeple so thoroughly tamed that we even elect crims like Howard in fair votes!
Get that? They don't even need to rort our voting system (just a little pruning here and there, especially in the Labor Party leadership, is all it takes to have duopoly consensus arounds such things as the sacredness of the 'American Alliance', the centrality of the War on Terror etc).
So cheer up. At least Americans are smart enough to necessitate systematic vote rigging.
That's the most twisted pep talk I've ever heard Sid.
But I appreciate it.
I thought I'd post an excerpt from a relevant news report about someone still having a go:
" Minimum Wage Front And Center In Senate
READ MORE: Ted Kennedy, John Sweeney, United States
Almost two weeks after a bill to raise the Federal Minimum Wage easily passed the House of Representatives, the legislation has arrived on the Senate floor, with debate started yesterday and a vote expected by the end of the week.
The measure to raise the minimum wage for the first time in a decade has been a long slog for Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) who brought the legislation to help the working poor before the previous, Republican-controlled Congress three times, only to see it shot down by the GOP on each occasion.
"After 10 long years without a raise, it's long past time to share the wealth with America's minimum wage workers," said Kennedy, in a speech last week. "I'm optimistic that my colleagues in the Senate will agree, and we can take prompt action next week to give working families the raise they deserve. No one who works for a living should have to live in poverty."
...
Said Kennedy in the Senate yesterday: "Americans understand the issues of fairness. They understand the importance of work. Americans have believed, for a long period of time, if you work hard and play by the rules, you should not have to live in poverty in the United States of America.""
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-geiger/m...ce_b_39357.html
"If you're not for raising the minimum wage, you don't deserve to call yourself a Democrat."
-- Ted Kennedy to John Kerry after Kerry raised doubts about raising the minimum wage
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I just found an article written by John in the steamshovel press. It is a quite excellent assessment of the perception of the 'conspiracy theorist' and the falacies of the methods employed by some paranoids.
This applies to some of the wilder 9/11 theories, which disenfranchise the legitimate questions being raised.
Read on...
"Conspiracy" Theories vs. "Coincidence" Theories
by John Judge
OK. You can call me a Conspiracy Theorist if you call everyone else a Coincidence Theorist. But n-o-o-o-o, only conspiracies are "theories", well. that and Evolution. Ya, right, if this is Intelligent Design, what is a BAD idea? I keep seeing all these so-called journalists barking at Conspiracy Theorists who think anything the government or the rich do could be less than benign. You might get away with criticizing the government for stupidity or incompetence, but if you even hint at intent or intelligent design on their part, you¹re ONE OF THEM -- a Conspiracy Theorist!
Of course you could just take recent headlines and imagine saying them, say, even a year before they broke in the New York Times or the Washington Post, and who would have believed you then? There you are before 9/11 saying: The President is deliberately manipulating intelligence reports to sell a war with lies. The President has asked the NSA to start wiretapping citizens getting or making calls with someone suspect of being a terrorist abroad, and won¹t reveal the mechanism that allows the NSA to find such people, that's Top Secret.
The President and the intelligence agencies have the names of some potential terrorists; they suspect they are "suicide hijackers". They know their method of attack is using planes as weapons and the specific terrorist targets include the Twin Towers, the Pentagon and the Capitol, and they have prepared to defend themselves against just such an attack. They have also gotten warnings from past and current National Security Advisors and many foreign intelligence agencies and leaders about the timing and imminence of such attacks.
The President got a clear warning about Osama bin Laden planning attacks inside the US on August 6 and they never warned us. Colin Powell has told all the surrounding countries that the US would invade Afghanistan that October back in July, 2001, before any terrorist attacks have happened.
I know, by now I¹m sounding like a madman and grabbing your collar "You HAVE to listen!" Another conspiracy nut, right? But in real fact every sentence above is based on hard truth and people were blowing those whistles even back then. The President's NSA, Pentagon and FBIsurveillance is currently implementing the Tom Charles Houston plan, at least the part that was made public during Watergate, and maybe the rest, a plan that was called "fascist" by Senator Frank Church¹s committee that put an end to it back then. But, there I go again, Conspiracy Theorizing - unless you READ it.
Funny, when the mainstream press reports something, then it's correctible and democracy has saved us once again. Ever hear of selective declassification? It¹s a coincidence that James Riser's story on the NSA surveillance broke the morning of the Senate vote on the Patriot Act, right? Even though he submitted it a year before?
And it must be a coincidence that the Senate vote to restore the Patriot Act came the day after they were locked in the basement of a Senate building for three hours because of a sensor alarm indicating a chemical agent attack, right? And one more coincidence that on the eve of the initial passage of the Patriot Act envelopes with anthrax arrived in the offices of the two main Senate opponents of that Act and scared the bejesus out of Congress?
It¹s about whole ways of looking at the world as benign or malignant. After all, how many coincidences does it take to convince you believe in a conspiracy? (Conspiracy means two or more people engaged in secret plans to do something illegal). Even the left admits there are SOME conspiracies, but they all get exposed and crushed real quick,because the people in power HATE them, and someone eventually spills them to Bob Woodward (I¹m quoting Chomsky here, but you probably think I¹m making that up too.) So, back to my point, how many coincidences does it take to make a conspiracy? I¹ve been collecting them. I haven¹t put enough on the plate yet? OK, here¹s two more. Brother, can you paradigm?
For some people, the world and the government will never be anything but benign at heart, with maybe a few screw-ups by well-intentioned people, but certainly nothing really evil, secret, well-planned and successful. Someone would talk! Never mind that they ARE talking, which is why I know about it. Never mind that many die trying. Sometimes they talk about each other, ya know. The left paints the whole ruling class as one monolithic Structure, and then calls me a Conspiracy Theorist! I make one or two important links and they act like they meant to say "Entropy!" all along. Their conspiracy operates by way of a hidden, mystic hand. They can¹t look at a tree, for fear of missing THE FOREST. Meanwhile, I study the trees, their branches, even their entwined roots, they make up THE FOREST. Ishmael Reed says in Mumbo Jumbo, "The real history of the world is a history of competing conspiracies."
And it makes me wonder. After all, we seem to have no problem compiling REAL coincidences when it comes to our prejudices against groups we dislike and disdain, or are taught to hate. They can be ascribed malign intent in a nanosecond. THOSE PEOPLE. So, the powerless are really evil and the powerful are benign? In fact, we make excuses for them all the time. The Vietnam war? - that was just a policy mistake; the war on Iraq? misguided but in the end worth it; the use of 9/11 to gut the Constitution and create a dual-legal system? - just overreaching in a crisis. They didn't really mean it.
It was Hermann Goering in 1936 who said, "I know two types of law because I know two types of men, those who are with us and those who are against us." He didn¹t mean it. Did the Nazis set the Riechstag afire to pass the Emergency Act or did they just cash in on it? Does it make a difference? Or is it really just that some day, while we have no aspiration to ever be one of THOSE PEOPLE, we secretly keep out the hope that we might become rich or powerful? And because of that, we give them a free ride? After all, what will people say of us when we control the violence of privilege against them?
How many genocides does it take to make a fascist? How many war lies to make a dictator? How much theft to make a Senator? "You should have stolen a railroad," Mother Jones suggested to the shoe thief. How much bad result does it take to suggest a bad intent? Is it that if they did mean it, we¹re REALLY in trouble and have to act? How many Brownshirt "idiots" to make a Nazi Party? How many distortions did it take to erase History? How many conspiracies did it take to make you believe in coincidence?
It doesn't help that nowadays anybody with a suspicion and a bone to pick can be a Conspiracy Theorist, all you need is a website. If the latest rumor you hear fits your paranoid paradigm it must be true. If someone challenges it, they must be an agent of the conspiracy. If the facts or the photos don't fit your theory, they are really clever fakes. The LACK of evidence, at least that you have bothered to collect, PROVES you are right. Never mind scientific approach, logic, history, everyone is an expert once they see the video twice over, and whatever it is they SEE. And a real expert in the field who disagrees, well THEY would all lie anyway. How many IF TRUEs to make a THAT¹S THE TRUTH? If we had some eggs, we could have ham and eggs, if we had some ham.
The political paralysis in America is based on the fact that we are allowed to BELIEVE anything but to KNOW nothing, Martin Schotz said so perceptively in History Will Not Absolve Us. And belief is the easiest of all methods aimed at finding the TRUTH, it takes almost no work and lots of prejudice. "I have a right to my opinion" now replaces the necessity to inform that opinion. Intellectual debate and growth are reduced to one single word now "Whatever!" Post-literate, post historical, post-logical, post-methodical, we are a nation of BELIEVERS. It almost makes us THEORISTS look rational.
Try to get your head around this profound insight of Thomas Merton in 1936, the same year the revelation but not the light was coming to Herr Goering: "If America fights Hitler, it will become Hitler."
Whatever could he have meant? Must have been a Conspiracy Theorist, way back then.
Just as I rolled off this set of thoughts a song came to me, since the only real nasty SIN of the ruling class is having illicit sex. THAT we can credit them with, probably because we are jealous. I thought about Clinton and Monica again and the words started rolling:
WHAT DID HE DO?
What did he do?
Did he recreate the DNA for the Tyrranosaurus Rex?
Did he manipulate some profit off the Stock Index?
Did he sell out to the Military-Industrial Complex?
Did he override the Congress, all Balances, no Checks?
Did he tell the NSA to spy on us and read our rolodex?
Did he drop another bomb on the Slovaks and the Czechs?
WHAT did the President do?
Why - haven't you heard? The President, THE PRESIDENT had SEX!!!!!
Well you get the idea. Where is Monica when we need her? My chant,back when Clinton renewed the bombing of Bosnia on the eve of his ownimpeachment, was "Lies and Murder Are What They Teach. Now Here's A Crime They SHOULD Impeach" Even Christopher Hitchens liked that one and quoted me in The Nation. How many bombs does it take to make you believe in war?
* John Judge promises that his web site, www.judgeforyourself.com, will be working soon.
John, this is one of the best articles I've ever read. Thank you for posting it.
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Hello everyone,
I have established a group entitled 'Political Assassinations' on you tube, the video upload site.
The aim of the group is to bring all relevant documentaires, interviews and footage currently available on youtube together in an easily accessible format.
There are currently 54 videos on the groups page with more on the way. The videos available include the last three episodes of 'The Men Who Killed Kennedy' -('The Guilty Men', 'The Love Affair' and 'The Smoking Gun'), the Shane O'Sullivan newsnight special, the documentary 'RFK', interviews with Madeleine Brown, John Connally and Chauncey Holt, and a whole range of other material.
Members are allowed to add videos of their own or ones that they have found on youtube.
I would encourage members of this forum to subscribe to the new youtube group as it will continue to grow and has some intriguing content and rare documentaries. I am hoping to get a large membership, as this will encourage people to view the content and will enable a higher search rating on youtube.
Please make use of the group,
http://www.youtube.com/group/assassination
Here is a list of audio and video resources that I have previously compiled.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...;hl=video+audio
All the best,
John Geraghty
Thanks for starting the video group John. Youtube has allowed me to see some footage I'd have never been able to see otherwise. Hope Google does right by it...
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Ditto.
Just kidding (private joke): Happy Birthday, Terry!
Ashton
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Yes, Ash. I'm the main ditto-head around here, I admit it. But, whatever happened to Myra?
Haven't seen hide nor hair of her in weeks. Maybe, she's on vacation, or sabbatical, or something.
Thanks again, Pal. Here's a punch for you.
I'm here!
Hide, hair, the whole package.
Happy belated birthday Terry.
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Depp has a brain and a soul among his vital organs, and lives in another country where they have perspective.
But he may lack the backbone to stand up to the forces that will oppose him if he tries to give context to the murder.
Context is public enemy #1.
"Depp to Make Film About Poisoned Ex-Spy
The Associated Press
Saturday, January 13, 2007; 1:11 PM
LONDON -- Johnny Depp is making a film about a former Russian spy whose poisoning death in London has touched off an international mystery, the trade magazine Variety reported.
Warner Bros. has bought the rights to a book about Alexander Litvinenko for Depp's production company, Infinitum Nihil, the magazine reported Friday. Depp will produce the film and could star in it, the report said.
Warner Bros. is racing against director Michael Mann and Colombia Pictures, which has agreed to pay $1.5 million for the rights to another book being co-written by the former spy's widow Marina Litvinenko, and Alex Goldfarb, a close friend, Variety reported later on its Web site. The book is expected to be published in May by Simon & Schuster's Free Press imprint, the report said.
Warner Bros. had tried unsuccessfully to buy the rights to the book by Litvinenko's widow, the report said. The studio has acquired the rights to a book by New York Times journalist Alan Cowell, which is expected to be published next year by Doubleday.
...
The report said Columbia envisions an espionage thriller "exploring the collision between the deep rooted Russian power structure enforced by the KGB ... and the new wave of wild west capitalism" that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union..."
(And proceeded the collapse of the Soviet Union...?)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...tertainmentnews
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Here is another Robin, better I believe, this is also from Fort Worth, shows
Nellies head.I have enlarged and lightened it, no damage..
B.
Nice work Bernice. Thank you.
It's amazing what bullxxxx we're expected to believe.
Hell, if there really were a prior incident that damaged the interior of the presidential limo--then the SS looks even more "inept."
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I'm sure Arlen Specter could add that dent to the doings of the good ole "magic" bullet. It must have bounced off of Connaly's wrist onto the chrome trim and back into Connaly's thigh.
From what I understand, from past readings, was that they stated the dent was "already there" from a previous "mishap" while working or servicing the limo. [i could be mistaken here] I tried to check all the photos I could from that day, from Love field to Dealey Plaza, and I havent found anything close up enough to see if it was there or not. Im sure, as most of you, that it was hit during the shooting. Maybe you have some good photos of the limo in your collection Robin? If so, please post them for us. I also agree with you as to the hit. It appears to be hit from the right side, low trajectory, in a slight upward strike. Just my opinion FWIW.
thanks-smitty
Correct. It was already there from an earlier motorcade episode wherein SA Greer saw President Kennedy in the rear view mirror and shot on reflex.
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I'd like to better understand your position, Ron.
Do you hold the view that any and all political activity is futile? Do you believe that everyone involved in politics, by definition, is a "pathetic human being"? Are there any exceptions?
Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline and fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed. And there is no way to get it back, particularly if it never existed. Do I have to be a party to what it's become, because I was born here?
I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave. But there are plenty of Americans who have (I believe Peter Lemkin, for example, is an American who lives abroad, though I'm not familiar with his circumstances.), and I envy them all. I would feel so much cleaner living in some other country.
Well I find that anger and disgust and embarrassment very understandable Ron. Though I'm starting to think it would be hard to go anyplace where the American Empire can't control it. The sun never sets on it you know...
It's less understandable to direct that bitterness at the victim, and Ted Kennedy is certainly that. His two older brothers murdered, one attempt on his life (in an airplane crash that killed others and seriously injured Senator Kennedy) and--as Dawn noted--the "dire warning" of Chappaquidick. ("If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick." --John Dean, 1973/http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html.) And hell yes John Kennedy Junior was murdered.
His whole damn family slaughtered, his own life threatened, his career damaged by the Rulers, and the ongoing smears of him remind me of the post-assassination assassination--also ongoing--of President Kennedy through propaganda. All Kennedys must be discredited so that no one cares enough to learn some history and thereby understand the present. So he's a victim in that sense too. Yet he continues to "have a go."
I hope you know that there were only 21 Democratic Senators who had the courage and integrity to vote against the Iraq invasion in 2002. Senator Kennedy was one of them Ron. Another in that (too) elite group was the *late* Paul Wellstone. Senator Kennedy is most definitely showing courage, and routinely gives some of the most blistering and pointed speeches against the regime. He's having a helluva go. And he does not deserve to be called names by people who can't possibly comprehend what he's had to endure over the decades as his family is picked off one by one and he lives in the crosshairs.
So even if he wasn't a brave and principled Senator I'd, as Sid said, give him the benefit of the doubt.
Sid>"Without claiming his voting record - or anything else about him - is perfect, I think fair-minded observers might agree he's been one of the more effective legislators in Congress with a much better-than-average commitment to decent, progressive policies over a long period of time."
I agree Sid.
And thank you for posting the Senator's bold remarks after the JEL (Just Enough to Lose, per Time Magazine... ol' Luce must be spinning in his hell) surge was announced.
Ron>"I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave."
That's just beautifully put Ron. I'm sure many can relate. It's damn hard to stay upbeat nowadays. Still, there's work to be done...
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I may have missed the appropriate thread, but I was wondering if anyone has read this book yet?
http://www.potomacbooksinc.com/Books/BookD...productID=96265
James
I have to wonder what one hopes to gain in reading a book by a CIA thug. Since their "job" was to murder and lie (which tend to go hand in hand), how could anyone trust a word that's said in a book written by one of them?
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...
Anyhow, in 1993 I saw a catalogue which contained books about every topic under the sun framed in a conspiratorial context, [some were very valid, some, I thought were a real reach] and it made me realize there was an aspect of it that was very commercialized and somewhat artificial. It was around then, that I first became aware of the so-called UFO connection to the assassination of JFK. When I started the thread that was referenced earlier about Maury Island UFO, the idea was to help remove the stigma of the linkage, [i.e. the dynamic of juxtaposing the UFO issue, side-by-side to the JFK Assassination, IMO the book is a must read, [Kenn Thomas is a real asset to the JFK research community] and offers as much clarity concerning the events surrounding the Maury Island incident and the characters contained therein, to help de-mystify it, to the optimum degree, that I think is possible.
I tend to agree with most, if not all of the author's assertions in the book. And I have, on my own run across a strange news story from 1947 written by Dorothy Kilgallen of all people. I'm relying on memory, but the story concerned a UFO crash where 7 or 8 alien bodies were discovered [scout's Honor] in Scandanavia, I believe. I feel that either it was a 'cover story' or a bona-fide story, but those are the only two choices, anyway, I suppose.
[There were a very small number of these 'alien bodies recovered' stories that emerged circa 1946-48, and to be honest, my initial reaction to realizing this was that, it was frustrating to me, because of all the denigrating comments heaped on those [via mainstream media] who believe there was a conspiracy re the JFK Assassination, as if Speisel at the Garrison trial wasn't bad enough; because in essence it [uFO related material] becomes grist for the mill in attempting to make those with pro-conspiracy views re 11/22/63 your basic these are the people out in La La land label. But, as the info Lee has posted illustrates there is 'some type of linkage' even if it is primarily one of a psychlogical head game to discredit the JFK research community,
...
Robert, I think it's a strong possibility that, as you suggest, UFO stories can be, at least in part, planted as a way to discredit anyone who embraces it along with a political plot. They can just be dismissed as some nut with a tin foil hat; nothing to see here just move along. I started to think that when I read about the Kilgallen supposed conversation that links President Kennedy with a UFO crash.
In fact every time I hear a UFO story I see Alex Trebek. Fans of Darin Morgan will know what I'm talking about.
One of the best TV shows I've ever seen was "Jose Chung's From Outer Space," written by Morgan for the X Files. Thumbnail summary:
"Writer Jose Chung (Charles Nelson Reilly) interviews Dana Scully for a book called From Outer Space, about alien abductions. Flattered by the attention of one of her favorite authors, Scully opens up about a recent case where two teenagers out on a date disappear, only to reappear later with tales of abduction and hypnosis. Mulder and Scully investigate, only to find the case unraveling before their eyes when Scully's autopsy reveals a dead alien body to be an Air Force officer decidedly out of uniform, and the girl's second hypnotic trance reveals that she was put under not by a grey skinned alien but by an Air Force doctor. Every witness who steps forward gets weirder and weirder, until we are faced with hollow-earth enthusiasts and Dungeon & Dragons burnout-cases seeking escape from their mundane lives in the arms of alien space brothers. The infamous Men In Black wear the faces of Jesse "The Body" Ventura and Alex "Jeopardy!" ..."
(Stolen from http://www.munchkyn.com/xf-rvws/josechung.html because I'm lazy.)
Ok, so the Men in Black are dispatched to someone's home when they witness a UFO incident. They confiscate evidence and threaten the witness and depart, and the really cunning part is that one Man in Black looks exactly like Alex Trebek. (Played by none other.)
It's cunning because when the witness tries to tell someone about the incident-- "Two gov't looking guys broke into my garage and stole my evidence and one was Alex Trebek!!! -- they're instantly discredited because it sounds so absurd. So that detail makes people dismiss anything else they say.
And that's what UFO stories remind me of when they're, in any way, related to a CIA black op like the 60's era assassinations.
Not that I disbelieve all UFO stories. Just that I think that kind of psy-ops strategy is likely in the CIA propaganda arsenal.
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"It's in the grain of the wood. / It's in the needle's rust. / It's in the eagle's claw. / It's in the eyes you trust. / It's in the jackal's dreams. / It's in the sleet and the hail. / It's in the unmarked box that came today in the mail. / It's in the dead man's pocket. / It's in the child's first sin. / It's in the Constitution written in very small print. / It's in Colin Powell's lies. / It's in the shaman's trance. / It's in the cellar waiting, and it's in the best-laid plans. / Now, we could cut and run, take half the blame. / Don't stop now. That's why we came. / House gone up in flames. / It's in the national anthem. / It's in the scurrying roach. / It's in the closed partition between first class and coach. / It's in the relentless fever. / It's in the lonely room. / It's in the hands of fate. / It's in the pharaoh's tomb. / It's in the rich man's dreams. / It's in the poor man's hands. / It's in the body bags along the Rio Grande. / It's in the evening shade. / It's on the zealot's tongue. / It's in the widow's tears. / It's in the miner's lungs. / Now, we could cut and run, take half the blame. / Now, don't stop now. That's why we came. / House gone up in flames. / It's in the moon's dark spin. / It's in the cloudless sky. / It's in St. Peter's denial that he'd thrice deny. / It's in the distant thunder. / It's in the whispered prayer / that they won't find us hidden here beneath the stairs. / So consider yourself lucky, and watch what you say. / I got what I wanted, and you might get the same. / It's in bold print nailed to the cathedral door. / It's in the black, cold pressure on the ocean floor. / Now, we could cut and run, take half the blame. / Don't stop now. That's why we came. / Oh, Lord, house gone up in flames.”
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/about.aspx?id=13328
Great interview here. I didn't know that John Lennon's song "Imagine" was banned from Clear Channel after 911. Typical. Kill the person then erase them from history.
Also some great quotes about their (Rage Against the Machine's) infamous trip to Mexico, where there's no first amendment...
"We were gonna speak out, regardless of the consequences. At the end of the day, you've got to look at yourself in the mirror and be able to say, "Today, to the best of my ability, I did the right thing." So even though the, the, the Mexican military had said — we were in support of the Zapatistas and their struggle for indigenous rights and the rights of Mexican workers. And they said, "Whatever you do, you may not mention the Zapatistas during the concert. You do not enjoy free speech rights here, and you must not do it, or we'll shut down the show." So, we had Subcomandante Marcos, one of the Zapatista leaders, introduce the band after giving sort of a very powerful speech to the, to the crowd there..."
Profiles in courage, eh?
"I think, at the end of the day, I think the most important thing, whether it's in your home, whether it's in your place of work, your community, your country, or what you see going on in the world, is to have the courage to stand up for what you believe in, because the, the powers that be want you to be cowed into submission. They want you to sit alone, you know, watching your 5,000 channels of cable TV and to feel that you're isolated. One of the most important things that music can do is make people feel that they're not isolated."
This forum has a similar effect.
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[quote name='Myra Bronstein' date='Jan 8 2007, 11:41 PM' post='88151']Thank you, Charles. That was very gentlemanly of you to acknowledge points of alignment despite areas of considerable disagreement. And while I'm glad we have this point of agreement, Ms. Pease deserves all the acknowledgment, just to keep things in order.
Ashton
I would like to read more by Ms. Pease. All I've read is... what's in this thread.
Myra,
Just Google her and you will get her Real History page, as well as her blog, which you can also receive,as an email. Lisa, together with Jim DiEugenio, did their fine magazine Probe- ( from which Ashton took the article he quoted)- for several years. Their book "The Assassinations" is excellent.
Dawn
Thank you Dawn. I'm just now getting into the Probe stuff, the website, the book, etc.
Some of the best articles I've seen.
Myra
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Obviously not that rare at $3.43 http://www.amazon.com/Fabulous-Onassis-Chr...TF8&s=books
Wow. Good find John. Ok, who wants to volunteer to get the book and do a cliffs notes summary for us?
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Well, turns out I lacked imagination when I put Cary Reich's's book "The Life of Nelson A. Rockefeller" on the back burner 'cause it stopped at 1958, pre-President Kennedy. In fact it has the exact background of both Rockefellers' CIA ties that fills in many gaps, at least for me.
Pg 559:
"As good as [Nelson] Rockefeller's relations were with the CIA, his brother David's were better. During the war David had served in Army intelligence in North Africa, and afterward he discreetly maintained his contacts with the intelligence community. "David kept in very close touch," recalls Tom Braden. "He was a friend and confidant of Allen Dulles, and in some instances furnished a front"--agreeing to finance a do-good foundation that was a CIA cover. "I remember briefing him, in great detail, about the work of the division that I headed in the CIA. Allen asked me to brief him, and I gave him a full briefing, so that he knew everything that I was doing. And I think he did it with the other division chiefs, too. He was close to intelligence work--much, much, much closer than Nelson was."
A "do good" foundation, eh? I suppose that's the obvious one... (?)
Pg 560:
"[Nelson] Rockeffer was proud of his CIA connection, and had no compunction about playing it up within the inner councils of the administration. When the White House that spring circulated a guide to the agencies for which various for which various presidential aides were responsible, Rockefeller was aggrieved when the CIA was not listed under his name. At his insistence, "CIA (operations)" was added to the list. Source: Andrew Goodpaster to NAR, April 29, 1955. NAR Special Assistant Book 16, RAC."
Much much more in the book. Including Nelson's lust for war...
So between this and "Battling Wall Street," it's starting to appear (to a newbie) like the CIA worked closely with, or for, both Rockefeller boys.
Behaviour of Members
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
John>”In virtually every case, the culprits are Americans. I suppose this abusive behaviour must be part of their culture, however, people from outside the United States find it very offensive.”
Adam>”I agree with him incidentally that many of the Americans here appear particularly poor at expressing themselves effectively without recourse to either.”
What’s surprising about these statements is not that they’re so nasty. Certain sources can’t surprise in that way anymore. The amazing part is that these statements are made with no apparent sense of irony.
Telling a large diverse group—in this case Americans--that their culture is abusive and that they’re unable to express themselves well is about as rude and mean-spirited as any remark could possibly be. And the very people spewing such statements are telling other people that they have behavior problems…?
Actually it’s way beyond ironic, though it’s certainly that. It’s downright hypocritical.
By contrast, and in spite of significant provocation, not one American here has made a comparable comment such as:
“Good god those Brits have an attitude even bigger than their heads!”
or
"My goodness the English are masters at claiming the high road while taking the low road."
Not one…