Dean Hagerman

The guidelines were perfect. They were put in place for a reason, to keep the discussion on things that we could actually prove or disprove via the principles of photography and away from \\\"seeing stuff\\\" which is nothing more than opinion and handwaving. TGZFH had exactly TWO atttempts at proving the Z film fake based on fact and not handwaving or opinion. Sadly for the the TGZFH gang, ( and the sheeple who follow them) both of those were monumental failures. Do you want the links as to WHY those arguments failed...again? I do not back Costellas work, so you posting those links for me for the 1000th time would be pointless

Craig Have you read TGZFH? Do I need to send you a copy? If you have read it then you have seen real hard data that the Z-film has been altered beyond question If you have not read it then you need too ASAP Dean Uh Dean as I told you before I read that trashy book when Tink was kind enough to send me a copy of the proof. If you think the book conmtained hard data that is beyond question your are either silly, or ignorant..or maybe both. Take your pick. Grape...Orange AND Cherry. Hell the TGZFH group can't even figure out something as simple as photographic parallax... Here Craig, read all of these, the truth will set you free Upps, seems I forget Rasberry... Craig When are you going to stop making stupid comments that only you find funny and give me serious replies? Why do you think TGZFH was wrong? Please be specific No, more to the question (and one we are still waiting for Dean to deal with as he said he would) when are YOU going to show us what TGZFH ( and Jack White) got right? I tried, and it was one of Jacks studies, but it did not fit your ridiculous guidelines

Craig Have you read TGZFH? Do I need to send you a copy? If you have read it then you have seen real hard data that the Z-film has been altered beyond question If you have not read it then you need too ASAP Dean Uh Dean as I told you before I read that trashy book when Tink was kind enough to send me a copy of the proof. If you think the book conmtained hard data that is beyond question your are either silly, or ignorant..or maybe both. Take your pick. Grape...Orange AND Cherry. Hell the TGZFH group can't even figure out something as simple as photographic parallax... Here Craig, read all of these, the truth will set you free Upps, seems I forget Rasberry... Craig When are you going to stop making stupid comments that only you find funny and give me serious replies? Why do you think TGZFH was wrong? Please be specific

Craig Have you read TGZFH? Do I need to send you a copy? If you have read it then you have seen real hard data that the Z-film has been altered beyond question If you have not read it then you need too ASAP Dean Uh Dean as I told you before I read that trashy book when Tink was kind enough to send me a copy of the proof. If you think the book conmtained hard data that is beyond question your are either silly, or ignorant..or maybe both. Take your pick. Grape...Orange AND Cherry. Hell the TGZFH group can't even figure out something as simple as photographic parallax... Here Craig, read all of these, the truth will set you free

Glad I could help Kathy Of course I believe Oswald was in the lunch room where he was seen cool and calm drinking a Coke by Officer Baker I think he was in the lunch room throught the entire assassination

No way Its Lovelady

Craig Have you read TGZFH? Do I need to send you a copy? If you have read it then you have seen real hard data that the Z-film has been altered beyond question If you have not read it then you need too ASAP Dean

Have you ever heard of "High Treason" ? Have you ever heard of "High Treason 2" ? Do the words best seller mean anything to you Len? "High Treason" is one of the best books of all time on the assassination I cant believe you didnt know that Yes Dean he wrote or co-wrote 2 books that spent a total of 13 weeks on the NY Times paperback nonfiction best sellers list but that was almost 20 years ago around the time of the buzz over Stone's JFK. Now he has to self publish and the Amazon.com Sales Ranks of his books is in the #326,049 - #1,431,848 so "obscure author" was a fair characterization. WRONG! "High Treason" was released in 1989 How was there "Buzz" over Stones JFK that was released in 1991? You have no idea what you are talking about do you? A classic case of projection.The book was 1st published in 1980 then re-released in 1989. Stone began filming JFK in the summer of 1990 and the book spent a few weeks on the best sellers list starting in November of that year. Can you site any cases of books becoming best sellers years after their initial release and the spike in sales not being associated with a movie death or similar event? CORRECTION - Filming of JFK began in April 1991, but I doubt it is a coincidence that a book released over 10 years earlier became a best seller when the author was working as a consultant for a movie on the same topic being made by one of the most popular directors of the period. I read his posts but rarely take them seriously because he posts nonsense like RFK was going to be the VP candidate in 1964, WTC 6 was white and evolution is a hoax. I'm sure Livingstone makes up all sorts of excuses for having to resort to self publishing.I pressume it because he make ludicrous claims (is it true he said Groden is CIA?) Len you dissapoint me Livingstone started writing High Treason in 1980, he then joined forces with Robert Groden and High Treason came to be published in 1989 I want you to find me a book copy of High Treason that was published in 1980, if you get me a copy of a book published in 1980 I will send you $10,000 for it Im pretty sure you read that it was first published in 1980 on Amazon.com That info is wrong, Livingstone had his work copywrited in 1980, but was not published in book form until 1989 with Groden And yes Groden and Livingstone had a big falling out, I think Groden had a message on his answering machine of Livingstone threating to kill him

Have you ever heard of "High Treason" ? Have you ever heard of "High Treason 2" ? Do the words best seller mean anything to you Len? "High Treason" is one of the best books of all time on the assassination I cant believe you didnt know that Yes Dean he wrote or co-wrote 2 books that spent a total of 13 weeks on the NY Times paperback nonfiction best sellers list but that was almost 20 years ago around the time of the buzz over Stone's JFK. Now he has to self publish and the Amazon.com Sales Ranks of his books is in the #326,049 - #1,431,848 so "obscure author" was a fair characterization. WRONG! "High Treason" was released in 1989 How was there "Buzz" over Stones JFK that was released in 1991? You have no idea what you are talking about do you? Read Jacks post, Livingstone is a control freak, thats why he wrote "High Treason 2" alone without Groden

Have you ever heard of "High Treason" ? Have you ever heard of "High Treason 2" ? Do the words best seller mean anything to you Len? "High Treason" is one of the best books of all time on the assassination I cant believe you didnt know that Thanks for making Lens point. The Zap book was a vanity publication. What? No reputable publisher willing to print it? Making his point or pointing out that Len knows nothing about Livingstone or for that matter two books that every student of the assassination sans you and Len own or at least read "High Treason" and "High Treason 2"

Have you ever heard of "High Treason" ? Have you ever heard of "High Treason 2" ? Do the words best seller mean anything to you Len? "High Treason" is one of the best books of all time on the assassination I cant believe you didnt know that

Perfect post Dr Fetzer My favorite book is "Bloody Treason" by Noel Twyman I bought it brand new back in 1997 and since the day I read Bloody Treason the whole way through I have believed 100% in alteration I also bought "Assassination Science", "Murder In Dealey Plaza" and "The Great Zapruder Film Hoax" the day they were released or the first week they were released Those 3 amazing books are not only all worn out from my reading them over and over and over they are still being read by me even today to check information and look up facts that are disputed by Lamson, Colby and others I hope that Dougs 5 volumes (and the Z-film alteration in Vol4) will open the eyes of researchers who I hold in a very high regard (Groden being one of them) I know Dougs book will bring on a new wave of attacks, i just wish I didnt have to wait until X-mas to get my hands on all 5 volumes (im working on the wife as I type to let me have Volume 4 as an early present ) I wanted to use this post to thank Dr Fetzer for putting together 3 of the most important books on the assassination and 3 books that I hold in a very high regard in my own research and studies as they back up my thoughts on the assassination and photographic evidence Thank you Dr Fetzer, I cant wait for the day that us as alterationists are proven to have been right all along Dean Cherry...for sure. Your a funny guy Craig, you should go on a comedy tour around the US But, I wouldnt quit your day job

Bill I am getting all 5 volumes for X-mas I will read them all and report back with my thoughts I am very excited to read Volume 4 Im ready to move on from talking about the errors in MIDP Thanks Dean, I'm anxious to hear your report. I too am a student of the assassination with a lot of reading to do. I'm just glad Prof. Fetzer isn't grading me. Perhaps you can suggest to him some possible articles for his next anthology. Bill Kelly I dont know if your being serious, I hope you are But either way I will post my thoughts and look forward to hearing more from you Bill and from everyone else on all 5 volumes (but mostly on chapter 14 in vol 4) The person I really want to hear from is Tink Thompson

Bill I am getting all 5 volumes for X-mas I will read them all and report back with my thoughts I am very excited to read Volume 4 Im ready to move on from talking about the errors in MIDP

What percentage of readers care only about errors? 2% including you and Bill Kelly would be my guess And now you say "It's apparent from the above remarks that your reading comprehension skills are equivalent to that of an eighth-grader" And then you say "Maybe you should pay attention to what's in the book, instead of making yourself look like a lightweight with your childish comments" So telling me I read like im in 8th grade is not a childish comment? And my favorite is this "I quickly tire of dealing with guys like you that jump to false conclusions" Then why did you reply to me? I know your just itchin to break down my post and point out all the errors I make, go ahead, do it. Me and my friends need a new grammer nazi to make fun of

It's apparent from the above remarks that your reading comprehension skills are equivalent to that of an eighth-grader. I see why you had to read Murder in Dealey Plaza 50 times. Your claim that the book is "edited just fine" is as laughable as it is absurd. And then you want to defend that claim by sniping at me. Maybe you should pay attention to what's in the book, instead of making yourself look like a lightweight with your childish comments. You ask "who cares if the book has errors?" The answer is readers that care about accuracy, credibility, and veracity. You neglected to mention that my post also referred to "a considerable number of factual misstatements." Ponder these.. Page 28) And yet, thirteen railroad employees of the Union Terminal are allowed on the bridge. Police officers White and Foster are assigned places at the East and West sides of a bridge that runs North-South. Access to the overpass bridge may have been limited to those with photography equipment. Page 47) This momentary sighting also dovetails with the observation of sheriff's deputy Roger Craig, who also sees a Nash Rambler station wagon, also driven by a dark-complected man, about fifteen minutes after the shooting, heading west on Elm. Page 54) Near Poydrus, when the bus becomes tied up in traffic, a man gets out of the car in front of the bus, walks back to the bus and tells Whaley the President has been shot. Page 59) Norman Similas, of Toronto, also witnesses the assassination of JFK and promptly leaves town. (This statement is cut and pasted from this website http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/similas.html No mention that Similas claimed to have a taken a photo; no mention of what he saw.) Page 79) The second police car to arrive at the scene where Tippit was murdered is driven by Officer Gerald Hill. Riding with Hill is William Alexander. (Officer Hill testifies that he is given custody of the .38 revolver supposedly found on Oswald when he is arrested a few moments later.) Page 87) Brewer then goes back to the box office and tells Julia Postal he thinks the man is still in the theater and to call the police. Julia then calls the police. Page 96) Clint Hill sees a photographer taking pictures. "I'll get him," he says to Jacqueline Kennedy. "No, she replies. "I want them to see what they have done." Page 101) 11/22 2:50 pm: Dallas police take a paraffin test of Oswald's hands and right cheek. Test is positive for hands; negative for the face. His interrogation continues. (See next) Page 110) 11/22 8:55 pm: Pete Barnes comes in and the three crime lab men make paraffin casts of Oswald's hands and right cheek. The tests come back positive for his hands and negative for his right cheek.... Page 114) The HSCA is referred to as "The Senate Committee." I quickly tire of dealing with guys like you that jump to false conclusions, and then act affronted when it is pointed out to them. Your response didn't even try to deal with the positive things I said about Murder in Dealey Plaza. Michael, Thank you for starting this thread, and I had hoped that Dr. Salerian would join us in discussion, but its apparent that no one of his caliber will enlist in a forum that includes those who have preconceived notions of what happened and whose to blame. Dean is quite apparently out of his league and Professor Fetzer, while on a high having been cited as a source in Horne's epic, should go back and correct his typos, errors and errata in his anthologies and republish them in the wake of Horne's references to them. And when we get Tink Thompson's response to Horne's work, Fetzer should just remain silent, as he has been disqualified from engaging in any determination of what did and didn't happen to the Zapruder film, while Horne's work has the potential of convincing Thompson that the chain of custody of the Z-film original was lost if in fact it did spend time at the CIA's Hawkeye Works lab at the Kodak plant in Rochester, NY. And someone else, other than Professor Fetzer, must follow Thompson's response to Horne's new data, and make sure it is well reasoned and in the same logical, analysis Horne applies to what has already been learned. Fetzer should not be allowed to take over the soap box, though he should be granted equal time, and since Horne's book is based primarily on the original records, they should be sited rather than the mistake ridden Murder In Dealey Plaza, which if corrected, has the potential of reaching a much larger audience than Horne's technical analysis, and those students of the assassination, like Dean, should learn and full deal, and not just from those who make the most noise. And many thanks again to Michael Hogan, a steady and intrepid student of the assassination. BK I am out of my league? Why because I can read and understand MIDP unlike you? When I first started posting I liked you and your style, then you take a shot at Fetzer and I call you on it, now im out of my league according to the all mighty Bill Kelly? Its nice to see the real side of you, dont call Bill out when he talks bad about someone, or else you will be branded out of your league What a frigging joke I cant read MIDP! It has to many errors! I hope its corrected now that Dougs 5 volumes is released! Jim needs to keep his mouth shut! Just listen to you I would say that your out of your league, but I wont stoop to your level

Perfect post Dr Fetzer My favorite book is "Bloody Treason" by Noel Twyman I bought it brand new back in 1997 and since the day I read Bloody Treason the whole way through I have believed 100% in alteration I also bought "Assassination Science", "Murder In Dealey Plaza" and "The Great Zapruder Film Hoax" the day they were released or the first week they were released Those 3 amazing books are not only all worn out from my reading them over and over and over they are still being read by me even today to check information and look up facts that are disputed by Lamson, Colby and others I hope that Dougs 5 volumes (and the Z-film alteration in Vol4) will open the eyes of researchers who I hold in a very high regard (Groden being one of them) I know Dougs book will bring on a new wave of attacks, i just wish I didnt have to wait until X-mas to get my hands on all 5 volumes (im working on the wife as I type to let me have Volume 4 as an early present ) I wanted to use this post to thank Dr Fetzer for putting together 3 of the most important books on the assassination and 3 books that I hold in a very high regard in my own research and studies as they back up my thoughts on the assassination and photographic evidence Thank you Dr Fetzer, I cant wait for the day that us as alterationists are proven to have been right all along Dean

Todd I got Spragues list in the mail today Thank you! Dean

Not only is that a shot aimed directly at Jim its a false statement The book is edited just fine, I have no problems reading MIDP at all, in fact it is such a great read I have read it at least 50 times So Fetzer whose ego is bigger than the Mall of the Americas can criticize the ever humble Bill Kelly but the latter can't say anything bad about the former? Why the double standard? Contrary to what you seem to believe the quality of the editing of any book is a matter of opinion not fact but based on Fetzer's repetitive style I imagine Bill was right So you have never read "Murder In Dealey Plaza" Len?

Michael Hogan has no clue what he is talking about Why you ask would I say that? I guess just like him im saying it just to say it How does that sound Michael? Maybe you should pay attention to whats IN the book like I did instead of dwelling on spelling errors, you act like this book is an report that Fetzer turned into an 8th grade English Teacher Who cares (besides you and English teachers) if the book has errors? You make it sound like it was so bad that it was impossible to read the book, the errors did not take away from the flow of the book that was easy to read and understand And for your info I own the first edition I hope you break my post apart and point out all the spelling and punctuation errors to me so I (along with all the other researchers who care about the case instead of grammer) can get a good laugh

Not only is that a shot aimed directly at Jim its a false statement The book is edited just fine, I have no problems reading MIDP at all, in fact it is such a great read I have read it at least 50 times

Dean, your theory will continue to look good if you don't pay attention to what you were told. You need to take a photo of the bush looking slightly upward at it like Murray was doing and then again looking slightly downward at the bush like Zapruder was doing ... does that not make sense to recreate each cameras angle ... it should! Taking photos on the same plane will only get what you have so far and that is a worthless test designed to fail. Duncan has a point about the branches blowing, but its not important in this instance. Bill Miller Bill Did you miss my post right before the pictures? I said I would snap a picture real quick to show how untrimmed the bushes are to give you guys an idea of what I was working with and to get the ok from you guys that the bush in my front yard will work I will take the pictures tomorrow from the Zapruder and Murray angle It is dark outside right now, so I will get all the pictures I need tomorrow Dean