Dean Hagerman

Ok Len here you go I just took the cover off my scanner and scanned the pages while holding the book like I would a newborn baby I posted this under the fair use act for research purposes ONLY I will take these scans down if Mr Twyman does not approve These pages are scanned from my copy of "Bloody Treason" by Noel Twyman 1997 My favorite book on the assassination by the way

Well a simple please might make me want to do it But ordering me to type it all out is not going to get me all pumped up to do it And its X-mas Give me some time and ask nicely and I will see what I can do Sorry if you thought it was an 'order' it was meant to be jocular. I wouldn't have though someone whose hero is a sociopathic killer would be so sensitive . Yes I would appreciate you typing that up but don't forget you would be doing so for yourself as much as for me. You could also try taking photos of the pages. make sure lighting is even and the 'film plane' is as parallel to the pages as possible. Some old 35mm-med. format tripods can be used as impromptu copy stands. "That Email from Gary proves nothing Kathy, in fact it does not change Ryans opinion one bit" Except that Horne and others claim the fake Z-film was ready that night or a few days later and you seem to have failed to notice this bit,"Ryan insisted to Zavada and Trask that such changes, while technically possible, in his opinion, would have taken months to accomplish and they would still likely have been detectable. " I didnt see that you were being jocular, my fault for being to sensitive, then again when you say that my hero was a sociopathic killer that might be a little stretch, I mean Karpis was like Robin Hood, he just never gave to the poor I will try taking pictures right now And Doug Horne (and others, what other alterationists I would love to know) said it was altered completety that night? Did I miss that? If so where was it posted? I have always subscribed to David healys time frame of alteration

Who gave you that impression? Have you read (or bought) TGZFH yet? If not buy it and read David Healys excellent chapter, that will tell you what you need to know about how long it took to alter the Z-film

How is that recanting his opinion? I agree with David Healy 100% that the Febuary 1964 date was when the first parts of frame alteration were completed That falls in line with Ryans statement to Trask and Zavada (if a statement to them was even ever made) that it would have taken months That Email from Gary proves nothing Kathy, in fact it does not change Ryans opinion one bit

Jim...your summary is FANTASTIC. It is obvious that none of the ones you mention has read Horne IV. I am appreciative that Bill Kelly obtained the volume, read it, and switched from being a doubter to a Horne believer. It proves that someone of intelligence, when seeing Horne's meticulous documentation, should no longer consider the Z film as evidence in the case. Just it opposite... the provable fabrication of the Zfilm RAISES IMPORTANT QUESTIONS OF WHY WAS IT FABRICATED...AND BY WHOM. Jack I second that! Great summary Jim From the time I finished reading "Bloody Treason" back in 1997 until the present day I have believed in alteration 100% I hope long time believers in the Z-film being authentic will see the light and come over to our side as Jim said

Well a simple please might make me want to do it But ordering me to type it all out is not going to get me all pumped up to do it And its X-mas Give me some time and ask nicely and I will see what I can do

Just buy "Bloody Treason" Although you did not want to fork over $85.00 for Livingstones book I doubt you will buy BT either as it is very rare and always sels in the $100.00 range I think you should invest in BT Len, not only can you re-sell it, the book may change your views on more then the Z-film alteration issue Sorry Dean, I'm not spending $100 plus shipping to Brazil for an out of print self published book just to read a few pages even if I could resell it at a loss (because I'm shipping from Brazil). Perhaps you could scan those pages like you did the Wilson book. That way anybody reading this thread could read them as well. [Host them at a 3rdparty site non-members can see them too].Is Ryan's report really not available anywhere else? Sorry Len Im not going open the book up all the way to put on my scanner, the book is 900+ pages and very big I do not want to mess up the spine or split the glue ends of the pages Remember this book is not only valuable but its also my favorite, I want to keep it in mint condition I could quote what Ryan says out of the book word for word

Just buy "Bloody Treason" Although you did not want to fork over $85.00 for Livingstones book I doubt you will buy BT either as it is very rare and always sels in the $100.00 range I think you should invest in BT Len, not only can you re-sell it, the book may change your views on more then the Z-film alteration issue

3.5 years ago and this is still heating up.... the trolls have dropped the ball, again. So where is Gary M's latest dance concerning Doug Horne's take on Z-film alteration? Rumor has it he (Gary) has broken his silence... Who has dropped the ball? UH, that would be the twinks who believe in the fairytale of zfilm alteration.... that would incude you davie. Denial You know that we are about to be vidicated What are going to do when that happens? Crawl into a corn field and ask Shoeless Joe Jackson why?

Great post Peter I was at the pain of having your fingertips cut off Hey deano, why not give us your expert analysis of why you know the fingers are too short. That should be good for some grins tonight. Peter is a Hall of Famer Your still in Little League Craig Yea, Lumpkin is in the A-holes hall of fame to be sure. He loves calling folks Nazi's. Really nice guy that Lumpkin. And he's just like you deano...along with your master Jack. None of you can fight your eway out of a paper bag when it comes to photography. Now about those stubby fingers deano... Little league, eh,? Heck you don't even understand the game... Do you need a link to Jacks study?

Great post Peter I was at the pain of having your fingertips cut off Hey deano, why not give us your expert analysis of why you know the fingers are too short. That should be good for some grins tonight. Peter is a Hall of Famer Your still in Little League Craig

Great post Peter I was at the pain of having your fingertips cut off

No worries, when I was around 14 I thought Mary Moorman was sexy as could be I had dreams of Mary giving me a super clear original picture that showed Badgeman so clear you could almost ID him, (remember its a dream so the picture had not faded like in real life) while she rubs my shoulders, whispers sweet nothings in my ear and well.......... I will stop there

Ultimate Sacrifice sucks

I always knew David Lifton was right, from the moment I finished Best Evidence back in 1988 I have read Best Evidence to many times to count I consider it my comfort book, when im bored or need to use the bathroom I almost always grab my paperback edition to read (My hardcover has been read once by my grandpa and once by me, it is in stunning condition and I want it to stay that way) I would have to say that my heroes in order are 1. Harold Weisberg 2. Penn Jones Jr. 3. David Lifton Not to mention that Pig on a Leash in TGZFH was just a great read, I loved all the history behind the films/pictures and Liftons relationships with other researchers I hope that Doug Hornes volumes will not only cement Liftons 2 casket/body alteration theory (as well as Fetzer, White, Mantik, Healy, Dellarosa, Bernice, myself and other alterationists theories) but bring his book back out in the open for the newer researchers who have never read Best Evidence Only four more days until I get Dougs books from my wife for X-mas I dont think I can wait that long, I may need to tear apart the closet use a razor to cut the gifts open, read chapter 14, put the book back and re-tape it I DARE YOU... ..and we shall not hear from dean till after the first of the New Year..he will recover he is resting comfortably but not quietly...but he shall return... with doug horne's books beside hm...b imo do not leave sylvia meagher out... Your right Bernice, I better just leave them as my wife might hurt me if I get caught

I always knew David Lifton was right, from the moment I finished Best Evidence back in 1988 I have read Best Evidence to many times to count I consider it my comfort book, when im bored or need to use the bathroom I almost always grab my paperback edition to read (My hardcover has been read once by my grandpa and once by me, it is in stunning condition and I want it to stay that way) I would have to say that my heroes in order are 1. Harold Weisberg 2. Penn Jones Jr. 3. David Lifton Not to mention that Pig on a Leash in TGZFH was just a great read, I loved all the history behind the films/pictures and Liftons relationships with other researchers I hope that Doug Hornes volumes will not only cement Liftons 2 casket/body alteration theory (as well as Fetzer, White, Mantik, Healy, Dellarosa, Bernice, myself and other alterationists theories) but bring his book back out in the open for the newer researchers who have never read Best Evidence Only four more days until I get Dougs books from my wife for X-mas I dont think I can wait that long, I may need to tear apart the closet use a razor to cut the gifts open, read chapter 14, put the book back and re-tape it

Very nice Paul!

Michael and I may have had a little scuffle but his sarcasm and dry humor is amazing

Wow

He saw the "other film" Len

Very nice James! Thanks for posting that montage, it was saved to my computer the second I laid eyes on it Dean

I only have two more weeks to wait I am going to rip into these volumes with a fury You better get ready Craig Ready for what exactly Dean? For some more hard data of Zapruder film alteration, which somehow you seemed to miss in TGZFH

I only have two more weeks to wait I am going to rip into these volumes with a fury You better get ready Craig

Amazing Hogan repeatedly criticized Evan's moderation of the PC section now that Evan admonished someone he is squabbling with Hogan says what a good job he did there. BERNICE WHY DO TYPE YOUR POSTS IN ALLCAPS? DON'T YOU REALIZE IT MAKES THEM HARDER TO READ AND THUS MORE LIKELY TO BE IGNORED? LEN I believe she does so because she has a bit of arthritis in her hands and all-caps makes it easier for her to post. I believe we'll need to see some evidence, preferably with citations, for your contention that all-caps "makes [posts] harder to read and thus more likely to be ignored." And btw, they're right about the double standard applied for the member who is more or less constantly insulting and abusive. Good day everyone Most of my life, instead of my HANDWRITING using cursive script, I have always PRINTED USING ALL CAPS. My handwriting was very difficult to read; my printing was easy to read. I could print all caps MUCH FASTER, so did better on school tests. ALL CAPS if properly used is easier to read in the same size font, because capital letters are larger than lower case letters. Headline writers often use ALL CAPS to get attention, since it is easy to read. As a lifelong art director, I was considered an expert in the proper usage of type. I always used whatever was most suited to the job. I do not understand the internet myth that ALL CAPS is harder to read or the equivalent of shouting. These opinions are held by the uninformed. Jack I started writting in all caps around 8th grade I have chicken scratch handwritting and if I didnt write in all caps it would be impossible for anyone sans my wife to read anything I wrote