François Carlier

Good evening, Sir. With no hidden agenda whatsoever, let me repeat below what I wrote earlier : "Apart from that, be honest, why in the world did NOT ONE of his colleagues say that they saw Oswald with them, watching the presidential parade ? Why didn't Buell Frazier say that Oswald was with him ? Come on, that is important, isn't it ? And don't tell me that they were all focused on the motorcade and didn't see who was next to them. That's nonsense. During those events, you talk to people, if only to share your feelings and emotions, especially if shots are fired at the President of the United States. I remember the 1999 solar eclipse. I was in Paris, at work. We went outside, watching the eclipse, with our special glasses. I can swear to you that to this day I remember who I was with. We stopped working and went outside a few minutes before the eclipse started and talked in the previous minutes and the following moments to. We were excited. A presidential motorcade would be as exciting. Now, I can assure you that if that afternoon someone had accused my colleagues of having killed someone, or stollen something, or whatever, I would have said : "That's impossible, I was with them". No way I wouldn't have realized the impossibility of such an accusation. Likewise, don't tell me that Oswald could have been outside watching the parade and NOBODY ever saw him ??????????? That's just ludicrous." What's your comment, Mister Mileto ?

When what they say is backed by science, facts, witness testimony, results of independent experiments, logic and common sense, yes, I do believe them !

Who said that they didn't ? Not me.

That's because I was influenced by the lyrics of the song "The boxer", by Simon and Garfunkel (almost). 😁😁😁

Of course, I should have thought about it. They didn't see him, NOT because he wasn't there, but because they were not looking for him. Of course ! And tomorrow you're going to tell us that Jack Ruby was there too. Nobody saw him, but that's just because they were not looking for him…. You're so pathetic !!!!

But of course !!!!!! A witness who says something that supports the conclusions of the official investigation ? But he must be a CIA asset, of course !!!!!!

Sure. And the fact that NOBODY saw Oswald outside, can YOU comprehend that ?

I really enjoy this thread. I see conspiracy theorists being overexcited about a non-event. This thread should be re-titled : MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING ! The only way you conspiracy theorists manage to be satisfied with the so-called "new" documents is by selecting the evidence, picking the sentences that you like and discarding whole paragraphs that you don't like. All the while refusing to answer my logical posts (because you can't). Anyway. Mister Mitcham : - 1. You are quoting a document stipulating that the police officer met Oswald inside the building, not outside. That's hardly evidence for the "prayer man" theory. - 2. your document states that the building superintendent (i.e. Roy Truly) was outside and met the police officer at the door and went in with him. So, I'll get back to my eternal question : how is it that Truly never saw Oswald outside ? How is it that Truly (and all the rest of the colleagues) NEVER saw that Oswald had been outside during the motorcade ? (the answer is : because Oswald was never outside !!!!!!!!!!!!!!) - 3. Like most of your conspiracy friends, you don't mind smearing dead people. You like calling honest people l-i-a-r-s. You enjoy defaming decent men. Well, I'm not here to judge, so feel free to continue if that's how you want to be remembered. Nonetheless, it is something that I find appalling. I'll go to my grave saying that Marrion Baker and Roy Truly told the truth and never lied to the Warren Commission. You'll go to yours saying that everybody and their dog lied. OK. I say that Marrion Baker and Roy Truly did have an encounter with Oswald. I say it was on the 2nd floor. You conspiracy advocates sometimes say that that encounter never happened. Now, you, Mitcham, are saying that it did happen, but on another floor. MAKE UP YOUR MIND, YOU CONSPIRACY THEORISTS : did the encounter happen or not ?

So, you are quoting a policeman who confronted Oswald inside the building, right ?

Oh, really ? Is that the answer I get for my long post ? OK. But for those who have the honesty and the courage to try to answer, here is an excerpt from my previous post : There is one important thing that everybody is overlooking. You are all saying that "Prayer man" was Oswald, therefore Oswald had an ironclad alibi, therefore he was not JFK's assassin. But wait a minute ! For 55 years, you have all been telling us that Oswald was the patsy, the scapegoat, the victim of a frame-up. He was framed ! But hold on a second, if he was "prayer man", then he wasn't framed. I mean, you can't imagine for a second a conspiracy so ridiculous that they plan to frame someone but don't care where that man is at the time of the shooting and don't know whether he has an alibi or not ????? At the very least, if you want to frame someone, you make sure that he has no alibi and you make damn sure he is not in the open among his colleagues !!!!! In other words, you conspiracy advocates have to explain to us how in the world the conspirators agreed to have Oswald moving freely on the steps of the TSBD. It doesn't make sense. Apart from that, be honest, why in the world did NOT ONE of his colleagues say that they saw Oswald with them, watching the presidential parade ? Why didn't Buell Frazier say that Oswald was with him ? Come on, that is important, isn't it ? And Don't tell me that they were all focused on the motorcade and didn't see who was next to them. That's nonsense. If these events, you talk to people, if only to share your feelings and emotions, especially if shots are fired at the President of the United States. I remember the 1999 solar eclipse. I was in Paris, at work. We went outside, watching the eclipse, with our special glasses. I can swear to you that to this day I remember who I was with. We stopped working and went outside a few minutes before the eclipse started and talked in the previous minutes and the following moments to. We were excited. A presidential motorcade would be as exciting. Now, I can assure you that if that afternoon someone had accused my colleagues of having killed someone, or stollen something, or whatever, I would have said : "That's impossible, I was with them". No way I wouldn't have realized the impossibility of the accusation. Likewise, don't tell me that Oswald could have been outside watching the parade and NOBODY ever saw him ??????????? That's just ludicrous. There is one thing that you all overlook, too. Oswald himself NEVER said that he was watching the motorcade. Not to the press, not to his brother. Why ? I mean, you are all saying something about Oswald that even HE didn't say ! Can a "conspiracy-prayer-man-believer" answer that ?

Yes indeed, it's very simple. Everytime you see evidence that you don't like, just accuse the government of cover-up. It always works. Very simple, indeed. (that's probably why you constantly resort to such tactics…)

Mister DiEugenio, Again, let me tell you : I know the difference between what Ralph Cinque has been claiming in his web sites and on several forums over the years, and what Bart Kamps is claiming today here or on his web site. It is easy to know. You just have to sit down and read Internet pages. When I was young, you had to order books and read them. It took time and efforts. Today, anyone can easily visit web sites. So, trust me, I know the difference between Cinque's claims and Kamp's claims. As far as images are concerned, well, I of course agree with the general principal that a better-quality image will give you better information than a lower-quality image. I would be more than happy if someone could provide all of us with a clear image of the so-called "prayer man". I would be delighted if some Dallas citizen could find such a clear image in their grand-parents' belongings, or something of the kind. Maybe a personal family movie forgotten in an old movie camera of a private citizen who was there that day and shot a movie and let it lie somewhere in his basement ? I mean, we all would love that to happen, of course, since it would most probably give us clear answers. I would love to have a clear picture, or clear pictures, but I think that me must NOT rely on Photoshop to give us a "clear" picture from a blurry, fuzzy picture. It can only mislead us. As far as "Prayer man" is concerned, well, I can safely say this : he is NOT Oswald. Try as you might, you can never prove that this shadow/guy is Lee Oswald. Why ? Because Lee Oswald was inside the building, not there on the steps. And here, see, I am applying critical thinking skills. It's easy, by the way. If someone is somewhere, they are not elsewhere. So, as Oswald was inside, he was not outside. Period. Nobody can ever show something that did not happen, therefore nobody can ever show that Oswald was outside when he was not. David Von Pein's five points are valid. He is right. And frankly, how can you really even think of denying his arguments ? All you can do is resort to : "This guy lied, that guy lied, that other guy lied, etc.". That's easy. Cheap shot tactics. But it is not honest and you must realize, deep down yourself, that it is not right to accuse everybody of lying. Those were men like you and me. There is one important thing that everybody is overlooking. You are all saying that "Prayer man" was Oswald, therefore Oswald had an ironclad alibi, therefore he was not JFK's assassin. But wait a minute ! For 55 years, you have all been telling us that Oswald was the patsy, the scapegoat, the victim of a frame-up. He was framed ! But hold on a second, if he was "prayer man", then he wasn't framed. I mean, you can't imagine for a second a conspiracy so ridiculous that they plan to frame someone but don't care where that man is at the time of the shooting and don't know whether he has an alibi or not ????? At the very least, if you want to frame someone, you make sure that he has no alibi and you make damn sure he is not in the open among his colleagues !!!!! In other words, you conspiracy advocates have to explain to us how in the world the conspirators agreed to have Oswald moving freely on the steps of the TSBD. It doesn't make sense. I know, if I dare say that, Bart Kamp will ask members to ignore me (ultimate irony…). Apart from that, be honest, why in the world did NOT ONE of his colleagues say that they saw Oswald with them, watching the presidential parade ? Why didn't Buell Frazier say that Oswald was with him ? Come on, that is important, isn't it ? And Don't tell me that they were all focused on the motorcade and didn't see who was next to them. That's nonsense. If these events, you talk to people, if only to share your feelings and emotions, especially if shots are fired at the President of the United States. I remember the 1999 solar eclipse. I was in Paris, at work. We went outside, watching the eclipse, with our special glasses. I can swear to you that to this day I remember who I was with. We stopped working and went outside a few minutes before the eclipse started and talked in the previous minutes and the following moments to. We were excited. A presidential motorcade would be as exciting. Now, I can assure you that if that afternoon someone had accused my colleagues of having killed someone, or stollen something, or whatever, I would have said : "That's impossible, I was with them". No way I wouldn't have realized the impossibility of the accusation. Likewise, don't tell me that Oswald could have been outside watching the parade and NOBODY ever saw him ??????????? That's just ludicrous. There is one thing that you all overlook, too. Oswald himself NEVER said that he was watching the motorcade. Not to the press, not to his brother. Why ? I mean, you are all saying something about Oswald that even HE didn't say ! Now, again, as I have previously written, I agree to say that Oswald went outside at some point. YES, he went out. So if he said so to the investigators, well, I believe it. But the question is "when ?". When did he go outside ? The answer is : after the shots had been fired. (and here I am not talking about him being the shooter or not). Lee Oswald went outside after the shooting sequence. That much we know. It's a fact. Therefore, if your "prayer man" shadow was spotted there at the time of the shooting or in the immediately-following seconds, it cannot be Oswald. Oswald did go out, but a little later. Have a nice day !

Yeah, sure. To think that if YOU had been the head of the Dallas police that day, everything would have been done neatly and professionally. The real assassin would have been caught, there would never have been any cover-up, and everybody would be happy. Satisfied ? OK, I can now go back to my serious posts.

You seem to have very little knowledge of real life. Where do you live ? What's your job ? You should study true crime stories, real-life crime stories. Study the behavior of the guilty party, the murderer. Study carefully. They always do things that are not coherent, nor intelligent. That's precisely why they end up being caught. You seem to live in a dream world. Do you reach your conclusions on the Kennedy assassination based on the Hollywood movies you watch ? I suggest you think again ! Real-life assassins make mistakes. Real-life assassins change their stories. Real-life assassins do things that are not coherent, nor consistent. Most of the time it does not make sense. Reasonable people who have knowledge will be able to sort things out. But people like you will be flabbergasted, they won't uderstand, and they'll end up calling the assassin an innocent man.

Why are you saying that ? Of course I know the difference between "prayer man" and Billy Lovelady. I quoted Burnham to show that not all conspiracy advocates agree with Kamp. I said that Groden likewise denied any validity in the belief of "prayer man". I know my stuff. Please don't try to pretend that I don't.

Well, actually, I am humble. Very humble. I defer to the conclusions of experts and witnesses and police officers who were there in the field to investigate the case. I humbly say that I believe what those very able men told us about the events of November 1963. But it takes a lot of arrogance and self-importance for Kamp to claim that he knows better than everybody. According to him, everybody is either a l-i-a-r or an accesssory after the fact, or a co-conspirator, or an idiot who is unable to see what he, Kamp, has discovered… I, for one, am not accusing any of the investigators of being l-i-a-r-s. Unlike Kamp, I do not pretend that I am so intelligent that I have been able to discover what nobody had discovered beforehand. Unlike Kamp, I do not pretend to have proved something contrary to what everybody has believed for 55 years. Unlike Kamp, I do not claim that a man who is inside a building is actually outside, and that those who disagree should be prevented from voicing their opinions. And you're asking "me" to be humble ? What a joke !

Oh, OK, and soon Vanessa Loney will criticize my posts...

Oh, you mean that Greg Burnham, who is a well-known conspiracy advocate, has used "attacks and personal insults" on Bart Kamp, who is also a -- less known -- conspiracy advocate ? That's not my fault. Those are his words, not mine. Can't you see that it is a quote ? But it goes on to prove that not all conspiracy believers agree with Kamp. And those who don't (Greg Burham, Robert Groden, etc.) do indeed have harsh words, because they are of the opinion that Kamp's theories are nonsensical and harm the conspiracy cause. Live with it. Or try to use me as a scapegoat, if it makes you feel better. I don't mind.

Quote : The “Prayer Man” nonsense is being promoted by yet another snake oil salesman, Bart Kamp. He and Ralph “the fraud” Cinque should get a hotel room. I am so disgusted with these intellectually dishonest charlatans that I vigilantly avoid anything and everything with which they are involved. [Greg Burnham Feb. 11 2018.] If that quote is genuine, then I must say that Burnham is worthy of applause !!!!!

Yeah, sure. You seem to live in a topsy-turvy world. It's time you woke up. If you are indeed looking for logic and truth, let me give you a clue : that's nowhere to be found on the Kamp/Larsen side. Unless, of course, you prefer to be biased. Which you look like...

Be honest, for a change, and start acknowledging that the guy who is as closed-minded as he is deluded is Kamp ! YES, I have something to bring : logic and the truth. Kamp brings nothing but nonsense and vanity. And he is so unsure of himself that he flees from the debate. So stop being silly and open your eyes !

"Hello everybody, my name is Bart Kamp, I have always been a spoiled child. When someone is inside a building, I like to say that they are outside that building. But if reasonable people disagree with me, I throw a tantrum and decide to stop talking. I am right. I know that I am right because I keep repeating to myself that I am right. I am right, I am right, I am right. Ouside is inside and inside is outside. I am right. If you don't agree, I'll call you a clown and I'll beg other people to stop talking to you. Remember : inside means outside !!!!"

Typical nonsense from Larsen. We're used to that, sadly… I know what Kamp is claiming, namely that Oswald was outside when the shots were fired, which is wrong, since it has been proven that he was inside. I know what documents Kamp uses since he uploaded them on his website, which I visited and read. Therefore, I know what he claims, I know that it is ludicrous, and I have every right to tell him that he is wrong. Actually, your post is further demonstration that you, Larsen, are an empty, mean-spirited, dishonest ideologue !!!!

At best, it is not an alibi, it is a statement. Besides, they do not say that Oswald was outside "when" the president passed by. You know very well that they didn't think that Oswald was outside when Kennedy passed by, since they believed that Oswald was shooting from the sixth floor. Therefore, they couldn't have meant to say that he was outside at the time the motorcade passed by. At best, they wrote that down in an effort to quote Oswald, knowing full well that he was lying.

That's nitpicking. If you want to quote Holmes, Fritz and Hosty, don't forget that they concluded that Oswald was indeed the assassin. One thing I'd like to tell you. Watch true crime shows (Forensic files, 48 hours, come to mind, but there are others). Those are true stories with actual footage most of the time. See how killers and assassins can lie. It's amazing ! They deny reality (that's an understatement). But they sometimes tell the truth (for instance : "Yes, I do live on Lincoln Street") but always for things that have no bearing on the evidence pointing to them as the guilty party.