Greg Burnham

Who's the "nut?" Lansdale or Prouty? Neither or both? We know one is a self admitted xxxx BY TRADE.

This is not the biography of a nut:

BIOGRAPHY

Col. L. Fletcher Prouty (USAF, Retired)

Born: Springfield, Mass., January 24, 1917. Attended public schools. President, High School Student Government. Member, undefeated Golf Team. Vocalist with Big Bands, sang in most large dance halls, hotels and colleges in Northeast. Graduate: Mass. State College 1941, A.B. degree and 2nd Lt. Commission, U.S. Cavalry.

June 1941

Began military career with 4th Armored Division, Pine Camp, NY. At Communications Officer School, Ft. Knox, KY, on December 7, 1941[Pearl Harbor]. Transferred to Air Force 1942. Earned Pilot's wings November, 1942. Arrived British West Africa [Ghana], February 1943 as pilot with Air Transport Command.

Assigned to V.I.P. flying, summer 1943. Personal pilot for Gen. Omar Bradley, Gen. J. C. H. Lee and Gen. C. R. Smith (Founder and President - American Airlines), among others. Landed U.S. Geological Survey Team in Saudi Arabia, Oct 1943, to confirm oil discoveries for Cairo Conference.

Assigned special duties at Cairo and Teheran Conferences, November-December 1943. Flew Chiang Kai Shek's Chinese delegation (T.V. Soong's delegates) to Teheran.

Chief Pilot (1,200 pilots), Cairo for Air Transport Command. Led special air mission into Soviet Union, and others into Turkey, 1944. Evacuated "Guns of Navaronne" British commandos from Turkey to Palestine. Assisted in capture of leader of German Gold smuggling ring (The actor, Bruce Cabot) in Turkey and Cairo. Led large flight of transport aircraft to Turkish-Syrian border to evacuate 750 American POW's and OSS-selected Ex-Nazi Intelligence experts from the Balkans, September 1944. The first "overt" Cold War mission.

1945

Transferred to SW Pacific, flew in New Guinea, Leyte and was on Okinawa at end of war.

Assigned by Army to Yale University to begin first USAF ROTC program. Taught "Aeronautics" and "Evolution of Warfare". Transferred to U.S. Air Force ROTC headquarters to write college text books. Wrote the college textbook on "Aeronautics" and another on "Rockets and Missiles".

1950-52

Transferred to Colorado Springs to establish Air Defense Command. There, Director, Personnel Planning for Command (77,000 men) and first to put personnel records on Computer. Attended Nuclear Weapons school, Sandia, N.M. Selected for Air Force Command and Staff College, Montgomery, Ala.

1952-54

Assigned to Korean War duties in Japan. Military Manager, Tokyo International Airport (Haneda) during Occupation. Commander, Military Air Transport Service, Heavy Transport Squadron responsible for military and diplomatic flights from Tokyo to Saudi Arabia and back, in addition to daily flights to Korea, Honolulu and Pacific Islands. Founder, Tokyo Toastmasters Club.

Attended, JCS operated Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk, 1955

1955-1964

Assigned to Headquarters, U.S. Air Force and directed to create an Air Force world-wide system for "Military Support of the Clandestine Operations of the CIA", as required by a new National Security Council Directive, 5412 of March, 1954. Wrote this policy in conjunction with Air Force General Counsel and CIA's General Counsel. Set up a TOP SECRET world wide support force and communications system. Was sent around the world by the Director, Central Intelligence, Allen W. Dulles, to meet the CIA Station Chiefs, 1956. Directed Air Force participation in countless CIA operations during this period.

As a result of a CIA Commendation for this work, awarded the Legion of Merit by the Air Force.

Photo: Colonel Prouty receiving the Legion of Merit

Promoted to Colonel and assigned to the Office of the Secretary of Defense to carry out this same type of work for all military services. Assigned to the Office of Special Operations.

With the creation of the Defense Intelligence Agency by Secretary McNamara and the abolishment of the OSO, was transferred to the Office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to create a similar, world-wide office and was the Chief of Special Operations, with the Joint Staff all during 1962-1963.

1963

Received orders to travel as the Military Escort officer for a group of VIPs who were being flown to the South Pole.

Nov 10 - Nov 28, 1963, to activate a Nuclear Power plant for heat, light and sea water desalination at the U.S. Navy Base at McMurdo Sound, Antarctica.

Retired as Colonel, U.S. Air Force, 1964 and was awarded one of the first three Joint Chiefs of Staff Commendation Medals by General Maxwell Taylor, Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff.

1964-1965

VP International Operations, General Aircraft Corporation... a company created by MIT and Harvard specialists that designed and built aircraft that were used by the CIA and Army Special Forces.

1965-1968

VP-Manager, Pentagon Branch, First National Bank, Arlington, VA, later VP-Marketing, 1965-1968. VP-Marketing, Madison National Bank, Washington, DC, 1968-1971.

Graduate, Graduate School of Banking, University of Wisconsin, 1966 - 1968.

Charter Member, American Bankers Association committee for Automation, Planning and Technology to develop plans to convert all U.S. banks to automation, including the Federal Reserve System.

President, Financial Marketing Council of Greater Washington, D.C. Member, Advertising Club of Washington, D.C.

1971 AMTRAK, as Manager, created nationwide Government and Military Marketing organization. Senior Director, Public Affairs, corporate speechwriter for Presidents and members of the Board, 1972-1982. Retired.

Author, Public Speaker, radio and TV, 1950 to present. Book "The Secret Team", Prentice-Hall, 1973, and paperback by Ballantine, 1974.

Worked with all major USA TV networks, and with BBC-TV, CBC-TV, Japanese, Canadian, Australian Broadcast Commission and many others.

For McGraw-Hill Scientific Encyclopedia wrote "Railroad Engineering" section, and for its "Scientific Yearbook-1982" yearbook, wrote "Foreign Railroad Technology".

For Traffic Quarterly and Congressional Record, wrote "Transportation at the Crossroads", July 1981.

Numerous magazine articles from New Republic to Air Force, Gallery, Genesis, and Freedom magazines.

Consultant: Rail Transportation for Northrop Services Inc., Northrup Corp. and for Ohio Rail Transportation Authority. Assisted Chairman, Joint Economics Committee of the Congress to set up International Hearings and to write "Rail Passenger Services Act of 1981".

At request of Oliver Stone, worked as Creative Advisor (1990-1991) on production of his film "JFK" and was the original for "Man X" character played by Donald Sutherland.

Book, "JFK, the CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy" published by Birch Lane Press, 1992.

Memberships:

Director, National Railroad Foundation and Museum

National Press Club, and Foundation

Rotary Club of Washington, formerly a Director

Member, Society of Historians for American Foreign Relations

Family:

Wife: Elizabeth

Son: David

Daughter: Jane

Daughter: Lauren

Additional data:

a) By direction of the Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, a Founder, of the International Air Traffic Controllers Assn.

b ) Founder, Tokyo Toastmasters Club

c) A Charter member, American Bankers Assn, Committee of Automation Planning and Technology.

d) A graduate of the American Bankers Assn, Graduate School of Banking, University of Wisconsin.

e) Guest Lecturer, American University.

f) Staff, Cairo Conference, 1943

g) Staff, Teheran Conference, 1943

This is not a hobby for me. I am not now, nor did I ever, attack you. However, I reject your methodology and your approach for the reasons I have already stated. The word "amateurish" as opposed to "professional" is descriptive, but not necessarily rude depending on intent. I apologize if my tone contributed to a knee-jerk reaction in you.

Not to be argumentative, sincerely, but aren't almost everyone's ears in the same general location and angle of just about everyone else's? The key word is "general" [location]. There is an actual science called Ear Biometrics from which identification can perhaps be relied upon. But it involves a lot more than "general" location and angle.

My original objection to the approach you adopted was based on a fallacy known as false equivalence. Although it was not stated, it was in play early in the thread. There is a great deal of difference in the value of the evidence being compared. The evidence offered by two respected eye witnesses--each of whom independently and positively identified the subject--versus your self described "parlor game." I do not think it is accurate to label a positive identification, even one with which you take exception, as a "parlor game." You are, of course, entitled to label your own study whatever you think most accurately describes it.

"They" are engaging in a parlor game? It appears to me that you initiated this specific "Mr. Potato Head" ear location photo analysis parlor game yourself and have now elected to point the finger at "the research community" for participating in it.

For the record: I do not find anything about this subject to be "fun" nor do I participate in "parlor games" concerning our dead president. I sensed early on that this is where the thread was headed and expressed my objections to it before the moderators found my posts to that effect needed to be hidden.

EDIT: I should add that the posts that were hidden have been restored by the moderator.

Mr. Valenti,

Your "photographic study" is antithetical to a scientific approach. You rely on empiricism to some extent in that "you think" that the ears approximately match based on your observations of your own self-admitted imprecise exercise (in futility). Nothing wrong with relying on empiricism to an extent, except when you have no basis upon which to draw an informed conclusion. You have never seen Lansdale in person. You never met him or worked with him for more than a decade. Colonel Prouty did. General Krulak did. Moreover, Krulak made his identification of Lansdale independent of Prouty's. In other words, Prouty did not ask Krulak if he thought the man pictured was Lansdale. Prouty simply provided him with the photograph. Both men, who knew and worked with Lansdale for more than a decade, identified him. Their superior analysis, in terms of the value of their informed opinion, is persuasive. Your uninformed, ignorant supposition regarding the size and/or location of the ears of a man you have never seen in person is not.

Your study is a straw man easily debunked by both the sincere and the disingenuous alike. It tends to create doubt not clarity.

Was curious to see if the ears lined up -- it's approximate but they seem to.

Although I already believe it's Lansdale, the amateurish "photographic study" you posted does not persuade.

Sirhan Life Threat and Request for Certificate of Appealability

deleted

I cannot continue to attempt a reasonable conversation with one who persists in communicating in a style that excludes the use of full sentences.

In 1963, much like today, and certainly 1,000 years ago, even the Vietnamese practitioners of Buddhism concurrently practiced Ancestor Worship.

But the vast majority of the Vietnamese Ancestor Worshipping Populace were not Buddhist or any other recognized "religion."

Indeed, it was and is more fundamental to Vietnamese Culture than any "religion" or "non-religion" ever was. It goes farther to their core than bone marrow.

Only when the CIA is the source cited does it claim that the source is irrelevant. Sources and methods are ALWAYS relevant.

According to the most resent census (1999) the religious distribution of Vietnam is as follows:

Buddhist 9.3%

Catholic 6.7%

Hoa Hao 1.5%

Cao Dai 1.1%

Protestant 0.5%

Muslim 0.1%

None * 80.8%

[sOURCE: Central Intelligence Agency]

Burnham note:

Where the category: *"None" may be misleading since "Ancestor Worship" is not likely counted among the religions recognized by the census takers. Veneration of Dead Ancestors (as opposed to dead saints) exists either as a "stand alone religion" that is deeply rooted in Vietnamese cultural tradition, or as an integral component of every other religion in Vietnam.

Even otherwise devout Vietnamese Catholic or Buddhist homes, to name but two religions, display altars for the purpose of practicing Veneration of Dead Ancestors.

It is more accurate to say that 80.8% of the Vietnamese population does not practice Catholicism, Buddhism, Cao Dai, Islam, or Protestantism.

It should be further noted that:

1) an unquantified percentage of the population that practices one of the aforementioned religions does so concurrently with Ancestor Worship

2) an unquantified population of Ancestor Worshippers practice Veneration of Dead Ancestors as a "stand alone" faith

3) the totality of all Ancestor Worshippers in Vietnam comprise a yet to be quantified percentage of those listed in the Census Figures as "none"

4) in the context of Vietnamese Society and Culture, 80.8% of the population that the census placed in the category "none" should not be interpreted to mean: "those without a faith."

5) the census numbers appear to be intentionally vague since the category "none" has not been defined

6) the census number results may reflect limited "multiple choice" options where only "Recognized Religions" were represented

7) in the case of Ancestor Worshippers, the only applicable choice on the census may have been: None -- as in, "none of the above" or N/A

Would a census bureau deliberately do such a thing? Consider the SOURCE.

Hi Jon,

I’m not sure my answers to your questions in post #12 are on topic for this thread, so I’ll respond to you in a PM tomorrow.

Tom

Thanks for your considerate reply, Tom.

Thanks again, Cliff. Another good catch!

Let's talk about the Bay of Pigs...I gotta million of 'em!

Another place, time, and thread. Maybe.

Thanks again, Cliff. Another good catch!

I encourage those interested in the subject to read JFK's speech, of 1954, while he was yet a Senator. Revisionist history has often erroneously cited his administration as having started the Vietnam war. And likewise, following his assassination, revisionist "secret" history sought to place the blame for escalation of that war on JFK. Yet, truth be told, JFK was always opposed to our presence in Indochina. He spoke rather forcefully against it, first while a member of the House of Representatives, and again later, while he was a Senator, he laid out one of the best cases AGAINST our becoming entrenched in Vietnam that was ever written BEFORE the fact.

In part he said the following:

"I am frankly of the belief that no amount of American military assistance in Indochina can conquer an enemy which is everywhere and at the same time nowhere, “an enemy of the people” which has the sympathy and covert support of the people. As succinctly stated by the report of the Judd Subcommittee of the House Foreign Affairs Committee in January of this year:

“Until political independence has been achieved, an effective fighting force from the associated states cannot be expected. … The apathy of the local population to the menace of the Viet Minh communism disguised as nationalism is the most discouraging aspect of the situation. That can only be overcome through the grant of complete independence to each of the associated states. Only for such a cause as their own freedom will people make the heroic effort necessary to win this kind of struggle.”

This is an analysis which is shared, if in some instances grudgingly, by most American observers. Moreover, without political independence for the associated states, the other Asiatic nations have made it clear that they regard this as a war of colonialism; and the “united action” which is said to be so desperately needed for victory in that area is likely to end up as unilateral action by our own country. Such intervention, without participation by the armed forces of the other nations of Asia, without the support of the great masses of the peoples of the associated states, with increasing reluctance and discouragement on the part of the French – and, I might add, with hordes of Chinese Communist troops poised just across the border in anticipation of our unilateral entry into their kind of battleground – such intervention, Mr. President, would be virtually impossible in the type of military situation which prevails in Indochina.

This is not a new point, of course. In November of 1951, I reported upon my return from the Far East as follows:

“In Indochina we have allied ourselves to the desperate effort of a French regime to hang on to the remnants of empire. There is no broad, general support of the native Vietnam Government among the people of that area. To check the southern drive of communism makes sense but not only through reliance on the force of arms. The task is rather to build strong native non-Communist sentiment within these areas and rely on that as a spearhead of defense rather than upon the legions of General de Lattre. To do this apart from and in defiance of innately nationalistic aims spells foredoomed failure.”

John F. Kennedy Speech

Remarks of Senator John F. Kennedy on Indochina

before the Senate, Washington, D.C., April 6, 1954

VIETNAMESE

We have seen the endless blaze

Emitting from your land

Watched you crouch in fear

Of your countrymen and mine

Not French or Yank turned willing tread

To slay you or to die

The greed of Godless men planned your fate

And our own

"Our brothers" they oft proclaim it

Ensnared us in that lawless horror

Your fear is our fear-your death our death

We are the people!

© H. J. Dean

Thanks for sharing that, Harry.

"When power corrupts, poetry cleanses." -- JFK

Greg,

I saw Viet Nam up close and personal. In the past, I had PTSD or whatever when a helicopter flew over.

The Viet Cong weren't communist? All I can say from my knowledge is, wrong.

Jon,

Thank you for your service--notwithstanding the immorality within the hearts of those who fomented the war.

As Tom Skerritt's character, "Viper," opined to the pilots in the movie, Top Gun: "Now, we don't make policy here, gentlemen. Elected officials, civilians, do that. We are the instruments of that policy."

I mean no disrespect toward those who answered the call to duty. I acknowledge that the bullets you and others who served with you faced posed a grave danger.

However, the pajama clad, slant eyed men pulling the triggers were not Communists. They were farmers by heritage, underground freedom fighters by duty, and saboteurs by last resort.

Unfortunately, the PTSD from which you suffered--and I am sorry to hear of your pain--appears to be associated with helicopters piloted not by Viet Cong, but by Americans who, through no fault of their own, shouldn't have been forced to be there to begin with.

Burnham:

There was NO connection between the Communist GOVERNMENT of North Vietnam and the Viet Cong “underground” of South Vietnam.

Me: What about the traffic on the Ho Chi Minh Trail?

Thanks for catching the word I omitted. It should read "There was no ideological connection..." -- I made the correction.

Thanks Cliff.

A better descriptor would have been: Central Vietnam -- it sits nearly on top of the 17th parallel-- but technically it is south.

LBJ's War: Vietnam -- 50 Years Ago This Day

by Greg Burnham

Dallas Morning News

By JOE SIMNACHER

During his 30 years with the FBI, C. Ray Hall investigated bank robberies, tracked down fugitives and interrogated suspects. He was a polygraph examiner and a firearms and police instructor.

On Nov. 24, 1963, he was selected to interview Jack Ruby, shortly after the nightclub owner had gunned down Lee Harvey Oswald.

Hall, 96, died Saturday of heart disease at his Dallas home.

Read more...

I think Chris' answer (#28) is a better, more complete, answer than mine.