David Von Pein

8 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Question: How much of the evidence against “Lee Harvey Oswald” is fake?
Answer: ALL OF IT, except, of course, for the many mistakes made during the hasty cover-up.

Thanks, Jim, for putting that belief in writing (and in a succinct form). I'll now be able to use your quote whenever I want to highlight yet another CTer's absurd "Over The Top" beliefs relating to the evidence in the John F. Kennedy murder case. Much obliged. (And the placing of quotation marks around Lee Harvey Oswald's name is another humorous little idiosyncrasy to be found among the current batch of 21st-century conspiracy fantasists. As if there was actually more than one "Lee Harvey Oswald". Too cute.)

26 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Nope... I haven't seen the slip. I believe what I said just because the evidence indicates to me that 9 minutes were added to all the timestamps in the radio transcripts. So it follows that roughly that same amount of time had to have been added to the ambulance dispatch slip as well.

BTW David, I'm not doing this in an attempt to bolster my case. There's plenty of other stuff to support my POV and frankly it would be easier just to accept the WC's Tippit timing. But I don't work that way. Maybe it's the engineer in me... everything has an explanation and so EVERYTHING needs to be explained. If there are inconsistencies, I need to explain them.

Fair enough. But as far as the Tippit case is concerned, I think many CTers have a habit of focusing way too much on various "inconsistencies" (clothing and otherwise) and timing issues, while they practically ignore (or deem not credible) the very BEST COMBINATION of evidence in the case ---- that "combination" being: the physical evidence of the bullet shells dumped by Tippit's killer at 10th & Patton (which positively came out of the gun that Oswald had in his possession when he was arrested), PLUS all those eyewitnesses who positively IDed Oswald as either the shooter or the person who was running away from the scene of the crime with a gun in his hands. Plus, there's the fight in the theater that ensued after Oswald was cornered, providing additional circumstantial evidence of Oswald's guilt.

I'm sorry, but T.F. Bowley's wristwatch does NOT wipe out all of that stuff I just talked about. Nor does Helen Markham's time estimates. Not even close.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#JD-Tippit

5 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Recall that I believe that the ambulance dispatch slip was originally timestamped as 1:10, but that the 0 was changed to 8. So 8 minutes was added to that time IMO.

Any chance you can prove that allegation?

Have you ever even SEEN the Dudley ambulance slip? I haven't.

1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Dale Myers is a proven l.i.a.r. I don't trust anything he says.

Naturally.

Two pictures I had never seen before (taken very early in the Dallas motorcade, just after departing Love Field)....

Follow-up on "The Bucket"....

From Vince Bugliosi's book:

"Critics claim that the backseat was washed out with a bucket of water, citing photographs that allegedly show a bucket near the limousine. Nurse’s aide Shirley Randall was reportedly asked to perform such a task, but in the excitement, never got around to it. (Manchester, "Death of a President", p.180 footnote) But on the face of it, it appears highly unlikely that the Secret Service would wash away the “crime scene” before the FBI criminalists could examine the car, and there is no testimony or statement from anyone that this was done." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 33 of Endnotes in "Reclaiming History"

Also See:

Shirley Randall's 11/22/63 statement here, and this statement made by Parkland Hospital orderly Joe Richards.
 

6 hours ago, Robert Card said:

Dave, do you happen to have any of the photos of the two Secret Service agents washing down the back seat of the limo at Parkland?  You can actually see them using the bucket that sits next to the open back door to the car in all the other pictures.  These are very important to me, and the reason I signed up for this site. 

This is the closest I can get....

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

The following official document shows that Tippit was at the hospital by no later than 1:15 PM. Do you think that Tippit arrived at the hospital less than a minute after being shot?

[Quoting Dale Myers:]

"The death certificate "discrepancy" - as I noted in "With Malice" - was explained during a 1983 interview I conducted with the late Dr. Paul Moellenhoff, who attended Tippit at Methodist. He told me that the clocks within the emergency area at Methodist showed different times - neither of them accurate as it turns out.

He used the 1:15 p.m. time shown on one of the clocks. The time reported to the FBI by Dr. Liquori (With Malice [WM], 2013 [edition], p.557) - 1:24 pm - is probably the accurate one based on the recorded timing of Bowley's call, the recorded departure of the ambulance from 10th and Patton, and the known drive time from 10th and Patton to Methodist Hospital.

DPD Officer Davenport noted that Moellenhoff removed one slug from Tippit's body at 1:30 pm (WM 2013 p.536). That same time (1:30 pm) made its way into Leavelle's homicide report (WM 2013 p.519) as the time Tippit was pronounced DOA (which couldn't possibly be true, right? You don't pull a slug from a body until after he's pronounced dead). This matches up with Moellenhoff's 1983 recollection that he removed a slug from the body within ten minutes of declaring Tippit DOA.

My caption under the death certificate (WM 2013 p.506) seeks to clarify the discrepancy between the Time of Injury (1:18 pm) and the time Death Occurred (1:15 pm). Again, it stems from my conversation with Dr. Moellenhoff. The 1:18 pm time, of course, probably refers to the time that Bowley's radio call was received - not the actual time Tippit was shot.

The 1:15 p.m. notation (although close in time to the actual moment of the shooting, as far as I can calculate) probably stems from Dr. Moellenhoff's use of an inaccurate Methodist emergency room clock.

Interesting, huh? All this fuss because no one at Methodist bothered to synchronize the clocks to actual time (some running fast, some running slow).

Can you imagine how many other death certificates were marked with times that were off by a few minutes? But what does it matter in those cases? Not one whit."

-- Dale K. Myers; February 7, 2015

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I believe the timestamp was originally "1:10" [on the Dudley Hughes ambulance slip] and that the "0" was later changed to an "8."

Great! I can now add still more fake stuff to my 21-item list posted earlier. Thanks, Sandy.

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

But doing the reconstruction again using this DPD radio transcript I get nearly the same result.

Bowley said that he arrived at 1:10 according to his watch and called in on Tippit's radio.

But that DPD log shows Bowley called in at 1:16 or 1:17. Which means Bowley must have waited 6 or 7 minutes to use the radio. But we know he never waited that long.

Simple answer: Bowley was off by a few minutes on the time of his arrival.

I think you'll agree that the official DPD Radio Log (which shows a 1:16-1:17 time for Bowley's call) is probably a little better than relying on Bowley's wristwatch. Right?

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

DVP neatly sidesteps the fact that Jim just showed how the FBI altered the evidence. 

You CTers really are the epitome of One Trick Ponies. I don't think there has been one piece of evidence in the JFK case that hasn't been deemed "fake", "altered", or "planted" by at least one conspiracy theorist at one time or another since 1963.

Let's just review some of those pieces of evidence (just off the top of my head; I'm sure there are dozens of additional examples as well)....

....The autopsy photos --- fake.

....The autopsy X-rays --- fake.

....John F. Kennedy's body --- altered.

....JFK's brain --- stolen, switched, tampered with, and/or deep-sixed by evil conspirators.

....Mannlicher-Carcano rifle #C2766 --- stolen from Ruth Paine's garage and/or planted on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building in order to frame Lee Harvey Oswald.

....The entire paper trail for LHO's rifle purchase --- fake.

....The entire paper trail for LHO's revolver purchase --- fake.

....The Backyard Photos of Oswald --- fake.

....Commission Exhibit 399 (the "Stretcher Bullet") --- fake.

....The two large bullet fragments found in JFK's limo --- fake/planted.

....The 3 bullet shells in the Sniper's Nest --- fake/planted.

....The 38-inch empty brown paper bag found in the Sniper's Nest --- fake/planted.

....The Zapruder Film --- fake/altered.

....The paper bus transfer found in Oswald's shirt pocket --- fake/planted.

....Any and all identification cards found on Lee Oswald's person on 11/22/63 that had the name "Alek J. Hidell" on them --- fake/planted.

....The limousine's windshield --- replaced immediately in order to hide the real evidence from view.

....Commission Exhibit No. 15 (Oswald's 11/9/63 letter to the Russian Embassy in Washington) --- fake.

....The four bullet shells found at the Tippit murder site --- fake/planted.

....Some of the DPD Radio Logs --- fake/altered.

....The two blank Klein's ads found among Oswald's belongings in Ruth Paine's garage on 11/23/63 --- planted.

....All of the evidence indicating that Lee Oswald fired a rifle shot at General Edwin Walker on 4/10/63 (including Commission Exhibit No. 1, LHO's handwritten note to Marina) --- fake.

Whew! Those patsy framers were sure busy!

And when a list like the above is assembled, it's easy to see just how ridiculously over the top the conspiracy theorists have taken their silly fantasies regarding the alleged "fake" evidence in the JFK and Tippit murder cases. For if all of the above items had truly been faked and/or manufactured by a gang of conspirators and/or cover-up operatives in 1963, then I think every reasonable person reading this post should be able to agree with me when I say that miracles are, indeed, possible.

And yet, somehow, amazingly, the JFK conspiracy theorists who continue to promote the idea that most of the evidence in the Kennedy case is fraudulent still seem to be proud of their over-the-top beliefs---even though it involves a belief in the impossible (and a belief in miracles).

Go figure.

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http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2018/12/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-130.html

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45 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

DVP neatly sidesteps the fact that Jim just showed how the FBI altered the evidence.

Was the Dudley Hughes "1:18" ambulance slip "altered" too, Jim?

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

The best evidence indicates that Tippit was actually killed at about 1:06 p.m.

One of the very best reasons (logically-speaking) to know that J.D. Tippit was not killed as early as 1:06 is because we know that Domingo Benavides didn't start pumping Tippit's microphone until 1:16 PM.

If Tippit had been shot at 1:06, that means we'd have to believe that Benavides waited for TEN FULL MINUTES to get into Tippit's car and use the radio. And there's no way in the world there was a TEN-minute gap between the actual shooting and Domingo pumping that radio microphone.

Just do a test of your own----sit at your desk and say "START", and then wait for 10 minutes until you do something else. If you do that, you'll see how absurd it would be to believe that Benavides waited for 10 full minutes to get into Tippit's patrol car.

Or would you like to now pretend that Benavides' initial (failed) attempt to use the police radio occurred much earlier than 1:16 (despite the "pumping" noises heard on the DPD Radio Tapes at 1:16, which I believe were first discovered by Dale Myers in the late '90s, and which occur about 90 seconds before T.F. Bowley's successful attempt to report the shooting via the same radio in Tippit's car)?

10 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

[Concerning the Tippit murder....] The DPD radio log indicates that the ambulance arrived within a minute later, or 1:10 to 1:11 PM.

Where did you get that erroneous info, Sandy? The DPD logs clearly indicate the first news regarding the Tippit shooting that was broadcast over the DPD radio came after 1:16 PM. And the DPD log also indicates the ambulance was still en route to the scene as of 1:19, because the ambulance driver was asking the DPD dispatcher what the address was as late as 1:19 (per the transcript of the DPD Radio Log below; although Dale Myers, in his book, has the ambulance arriving at the murder scene at 1:18:59 PM ["With Malice", page 104]).

And there's also the Dudley Hughes ambulance dispatcher slip, which Hughes stamped in a time clock at "1:18 PM" [see "With Malice", page 101].

So, I can't see anything relating "officially" to the Tippit murder that places the murder occurring prior to approximately 1:15 PM.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/tippit-timelines.html

"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men."

-- President John F. Kennedy; November 16, 1961
 

3 hours ago, Robert Card said:

Alright David, I’ve presented the evidence, and I’m really not asking you to believe everything I write, but you should at least acnowledge that there’s a lot wrong with the govt story, and it’s quite possible that John Jr. was murdered. .... Why don't you read a book on the subject[?]

Because those books are full of nothing but crap---and that's because they were written by rabid conspiracy theorists. I wouldn't believe a single thing that a "JFK Jr. Was Murdered" conspiracy theorist said. Just as I wouldn't even begin to believe a single solitary thing uttered by the super-wacko CTers who think that no airplanes at all hit the World Trade Center or the Pentagon on 9/11.

Those type of conspiracy theories are every bit as bad as the garbage churned out by The National Enquirer every week.

3 hours ago, Robert Card said:

In your John Jr link, it’s a little more than bias, it’s basically BS.

Yeah, yeah, sure it is, Bob. Whatever you say.

51 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

Do you believe that the Z-Film SHOULD have contained the president's limo making the difficult turn onto Elm Street? 

No. Definitely not.

Quote

Why would he film the limo coming down Houston, stop filming the turn, and then resume the filming once the turn was made?

I don't think Abraham Zapruder did film all those things you just mentioned. I think he filmed the lead motorcycles (which were well ahead of JFK's car), he then stopped filming when he realized the President's car was nowhere in sight yet, and he then resumed filming after JFK's limo had straightened out on Elm Street (which is Z133). He never filmed the limousine on Houston Street at all.

Also....

Can any CTer here tell us exactly WHY anyone would have wanted to remove any Z-Film frames that show the limo PRIOR to Z-frame 133? Nobody had actually been HIT by any bullets as of Z133. So what's the purpose of needing those frames removed (even from the POV of a CTer, or a "conspirator")?

2 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

The Zapruder film is not faked, it has been tampered with.  There's a difference.  Frames were removed in more than one place.  

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/04/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1117.html#The-Missing-Frames-Of-The-Zapruder-Film

1967 Audio Clip Featuring Wesley Liebeler Discussing How 4 Frames Of The Zapruder Film Were Accidentally Damaged By LIFE Magazine

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"But, just like they do with all of the assassination evidence, conspiracists like Jim DiEugenio have to add in a nonexistent layer of "cover-up" when it comes to the topic of the "missing Z-Film frames". But that's what conspiracy theorists do best — they invent sinister activity where none exists. SOP for CTers." -- DVP; April 3, 2016

7 hours ago, Adam Johnson said:

Please look at the DVP gif again and focus your attention on John Connally and Roy Kellerman's head movements from 311 to 316. Their heads start a similar forward movement but only JFK's is rocked backward and to the left after 313 while Connally and Kellerman's continue in that forward motion......the only logical explanation for all three people in the vehicles heads moving forward at the same time is that the brakes were applied......

I see a distinct forward SNAP of JFK's head. I don't see such a sudden and quick SNAP-like movement of anyone else's head in the limousine. And I think Kellerman's forward movement is almost certainly a VOLUNTARY movement (vs. the INVOLUNTARY forward movement exhibited by President Kennedy). And that movement forward by Kellerman is because he's starting to DUCK immediately after the fatal head shot. I see no forward movement of Connally's head at 313-315 at all. I see some BLURRING of those frames, but that's all.

32 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

No, that was Lance, I apologise. 

Oh, OK. No problem.

But did Lance imply that he thinks all of the BOH witnesses are "crackpots"? I find that hard to believe. Do you have his quote to that effect? Just curious.

3 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

Maybe the EOP wound and large head wound were created by different projectiles.

Then why don't we see a second explosion of JFK's head in the Zapruder Film?

Thanks for the Boswell testimony, Micah. (I hadn't memorized it, obviously.)

But since JFK's head was tilted quite a bit FORWARD at the moment of the head shot [see Z-Film clip below], I think it would be quite possible for there to have been an UPWARD trajectory when the angle is calculated while JFK was in the "autopsy position" (i.e., erect).

Anyway, what point are you trying to make, Micah? Are you saying you think somebody shot JFK in the back of the head while shooting from about street level (or even lower), creating the "upward" trajectory? That situation couldn't have happened, of course. So I'm not really sure where you can go with the "upward" arrow on the Face Sheet. And after reading Dr. Boswell's testimonies that you supplied above, I'm not too sure Boswell even knew for sure what the arrow was supposed to indicate. His remarks during his HSCA interview are particularly unclear....

Dr. BOSWELL -- "That just meant up. It wasn't intended to indicate direction or anything."

What the heck is that supposed to mean? I have no idea what he's talking about there. Do you?

8 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

Not saying I'm arguing frontal shots, but why do you think McClelland had a report saying there was an entrance wound in the left temple?

That's fully explained by Dr. McClelland in the 2009 interview below. (Go to 14:20.) McClelland got the erroneous "left temple" information from Dr. Marion Jenkins. McClelland has since fully retracted his belief that there was any wound in the left temple, including a retraction for that belief in this 2009 interview....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KFei3W7bGOODhkYTRkOFdNUlU/view

19 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

The arrow is clearly pointing UPWARDS, indicating a proposed upwards trajectory.

How do you know that's what Boswell meant by that arrow he drew on the Face Sheet? I think it's much more likely that the arrow indicates the "slanting" nature of the wound. It doesn't have to mean anything about "trajectory".