David Von Pein

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Could it be that Oswald wanted to get up to that 6th floor quickly before punching in on the lower floors just minutes later? Leaving Frazier behind as soon as possible would have been imperative.

Yes, I think that's quite possible.

But I think it's also possible that Oswald stashed his rifle temporarily out on the loading dock before he entered the building to be seen by Jack Dougherty (and this could be the reason Dougherty didn't notice anything in Oswald's hands at that time). And at some later time, Oswald retrieved the rifle from the loading dock area and took it upstairs.

All of this kind of talk is, of course, 100% guesswork on the part of anyone choosing to do the speculating. But, I'll admit, it is fun to guess about these things once in a while.

10 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

I hear your points. However, assuming he did it, one problem is that he had to hide the weapon and bullets on the drive to work, walk into work with no one noticing tge weapon and/or bullets, go up several floors to work without anyone noticing the weapon and/or bullets, work for several hours and hope no one sees the gun and or bullets, or hear the bullets if he had them on him in a pocket, and finally hide the weapon and/or bullets while he was on the first and second floor which we know by testimony he was seen before 12:30. That is a lot of wishful thinking on his part.

I agree. It was. But....

The wishing paid off ..... because Bonnie Ray vacated the 6th floor just in time for Oswald to do his dirty deed.

Oswald was one lucky SOB on 11/22/63. No doubt about it. But LUCK can certainly play a part in big events like the JFK assassination. Such as LHO's additional "good luck" with the weather on that Friday too. If it had continued to rain....who knows what might have happened. Perhaps a bullet would have been deflected. Or, perhaps, Oswald doesn't even attempt to fire any shots at the enclosed bubbletop at all.

My $0.02....

I really don't think Lee Oswald thought---deep down---that he would actually have a chance to use his Mannlicher-Carcano on the President that day. Yes, he took his rifle to work with the hope in his mind of somehow being able to secrete himself somewhere within the Depository at the precise moment when Kennedy drove past the building. But he probably also realized as he was driving to work that morning with Buell Frazier that the odds of being able to successfully conceal himself from the view of everyone else in the building (i.e., being able to have an entire warehouse floor of the TSBD all to himself at just exactly the appropriate minutes before, during, and just after the President drove by the building) were very small odds indeed.

But, as Oswald's incredible luck would have it (and even though he picked a floor--the sixth--that had MORE than the usual number of employees working on it throughout the entire morning that day, due to the floor-laying project that was occurring on that floor), Lee had the good fortune of having the entire sixth floor all to himself at precisely the time he desperately needed to have it all to himself---between 12:20 and 12:31 PM.

It's always been my opinion that if Bonnie Ray Williams had decided to stay on the sixth floor, instead of moving down to the 5th floor at about 12:20, then JFK would not have been shot at all....because (IMO) Oswald wouldn't risk firing at the President if he knew for certain that somebody else was on that same sixth floor just a few feet away.

And if somehow he was able to pull off the shooting in total secrecy (which he was), I doubt if Lee thought he would live very long beyond 12:30. Hence, I don't think he cared too much about having a lot of money on him when he departed Ruth Paine's house on November 22.*

* Yes, I know that that last part about Lee thinking he wouldn't be long for this world if he shot the President is likely to be considered inconsistent with the portion of my theory which has Oswald not taking the risk of shooting if Bonnie Ray remained on the sixth floor. CTers can fire back with:

But, David, if he didn't think he'd get away alive, then why would he care if anyone else was up there with him to finger him for the crime?

Fair point (if someone wants to make it). But I think it's quite clear that Oswald did have a desire to continue living beyond 11/22/63. That fact is very clear to me when looking at Oswald's actions after 12:30 PM on November 22 --- e.g., fleeing the building within minutes of the assassination, taking a cab to get back to his roominghouse (a very out-of-the-ordinary mode of transportation for Oswald), arming himself with a pistol and at least 15 rounds of ammunition within 30 minutes of JFK being shot, and then committing a second murder a few minutes later when he encountered Officer Tippit.

Having a desire to survive the aftermath of the assassination, vs. thinking he will survive, are two different things entirely. I would guess that Lee Harvey Oswald was probably very surprised that he was afforded the ideal opportunity to shoot at President Kennedy from a totally vacant sixth floor of his workplace and still live to see another sunrise. IMHO. YMMV.

David Von Pein
May 6-7, 2018

More:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/01/lee-harvey-oswald's-decision-to-shoot-jfk

............

Off Topic (but kind of fun).....

I have to say, I was deeply distressed when I found out that President Trump's Fast Food Feast at the White House on January 14, 2019, did not contain any KFC items. The Colonel would be heartbroken.

1 hour ago, Andrew Prutsok said:

For the same reason, perhaps, that everybody noticed he was missing from the lineup? The TSBD crew seemed to be a pretty observant bunch.

"Everybody"? Who besides Roy Truly noticed Oswald's absence?

More "Paper Bag" stuff....

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/09/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-258.html

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/07/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-735.html

11 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

  But to resort to the the bag?   HA HA HA HA  ROTF  

Just citing the actual evidence, Jim. Look it up. In Stombaugh's testimony.

1 minute ago, Bart Kamp said:

Go Home Von Pein!!!!

Where's "home"? Any chance of an answer this year, Kamp?

On 1/16/2019 at 4:52 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Bledsoe has the credibility of Brennan.

Oh good! The non-stop parade of worthless scumbag witnesses continues (via Jim's Fantasy World Of Conspiracy & Covering Up).

OK, Jim, let's keep it going....

What about Linnie Mae?

2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

The paper bag to the blanket.  This makes your argument even worse.  

First, you ignore the evidence of the fibers the DPD most likely put in the butt plate because they did not have anything else..

  But to resort to the the bag?   HA HA HA HA  ROTF  

Good! More liars! And MORE fake evidence!

Keep 'em comin', Jimmy.

I'm waiting for the "Jackie's Fake Pillbox Hat" theory.

Re: The Bag....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/frazier-randle-and-paper-bag.html

2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Davey now has to make like he does not understand that Stombaugh's failure to do anything at all to connect the rifle to the blanket was a big problem for the  WC.  Because, to any normal thinking person--automatically excluding Davey-- it indicated  the rifle was not in the blanket.  That is why they had Marina do what she did.

You don't care how many people you call liars, do you?

Pathetic. As always.

2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Davey also ignores the fact that Speer also showed how they were so desperate to connect that rifle to LHO that it looks like the DPD stuffed some shirt fibers in the butt plate.

Good! More liars! More planted stuff!

2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

But it is actually even worse than that.  Why? Because it probably was the wrong shirt.  This brings in the utterly risible testimony of none other than Mary Bledsoe, who may be worse than Marina.

Good! Another l-i-a-r!

(What's one more worthless l-i-a-r, right Jim?)

The last count of the number of liars in Jim's JFK World ---- Way too numerous to tally.

11 minutes ago, Derek Thibeault said:

You turned on me fast LOL!

I didn't turn on you. Why do you say that? I was merely asking two logical questions about the Tippit murder.

40 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

The WC desperately wanted him [Paul Stombaugh] to link the blanket to the rifle in any possible way that he could. He could not.

Actually, he did (although indirectly). It was a linkage between the paper bag (CE142) and the blanket---via some fibers found in the bag that generally were consistent with fibers from the blanket.

And since all reasonable people know that a RIFLE was stored in that blanket.....and if the bag had fibers from that blanket in it....well, then, the math is pretty easy to do after that. (Although, I'll admit, the fiber connection is certainly not definitive. But the fibers in the bag were consistent with the blanket fibers.)

2 minutes ago, Derek Thibeault said:

Frazier seems to be all over the place. It seems like Oswald might have been dropped off out front if so then Frazier is lying. There is not enough witnesses seeing Oswald enter the TSBD with or without a package. Something seems fishy with Frazier.

RAY MITCHAM SAID:

Only two people said they saw Oswald carrying a package. Frazier and his sister.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

And given the circumstances, why would you expect anybody else to necessarily have seen Oswald with the package?

It's early in the morning on Nov. 22. Lee walks toward the Frazier house. Linnie Mae happens to be looking out the window and sees LHO with the package. Then the only other person that I would have completely EXPECTED to see the package---Buell Wesley Frazier---sees the paper bag on the back seat (and sees LHO carry it into the TSBD Building).

And, as mentioned previously, it's quite possible that Oswald might have stashed the bag/rifle in the Loading Dock area BEFORE he ever entered the inner door that led to the TSBD's first floor (where Jack Dougherty was). But we also know that Dougherty said he only saw LHO that morning out of the "corner" of his eye. So why would you expect him to have necessarily seen any package even if Lee had it with him at that time?

So, IMO, the argument about "Only Two People Saw Him With The Package" is a very weak argument given the time of day and the conditions of Oswald putting the package in the back seat of Frazier's car (where nobody BUT Frazier and Oswald himself could possibly see it on the way to work). Therefore, I wouldn't necessarily expect anyone else to see that brown bag. And, quite obviously (given the overall evidence and testimony), I'm right---nobody else did see it.

More....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/03/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-914.html

I ask Jim a straightforward question --- Do you really and truly (deep down) believe that Marina Oswald was lying when she said these things in her WC testimony? --- and Jim starts talking about fiber expert Paul Stombaugh. As if Stombaugh's testimony has anything at all to do with Marina's testimony concerning whether she ever SAW A RIFLE in the Paine garage.

Well, maybe Jimmy's having a bad day.

31 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Marina Oswald would be utterly shredded upon any real cross examination.

Jim,

Do you really and truly (deep down) believe that Marina Oswald was lying when she said these things in her WC testimony?....

MARINA OSWALD. After we arrived, I tried to put the bed, the child's crib together, the metallic parts, and I looked for a certain part, and I came upon something wrapped in a blanket. I thought that was part of the bed, but it turned out to be the rifle.

[...]

Mr. RANKIN. After your husband returned from Mexico, did you examine the rifle in the garage at any time?
Mrs. OSWALD. I had never examined the rifle in the garage. It was wrapped in a blanket and was lying on the floor.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever check to see whether the rifle was in the blanket?
Mrs. OSWALD. I never checked to see that. There was only once that I was interested in finding out what was in that blanket, and I saw that it was a rifle.
Mr. RANKIN. When was that?
Mrs. OSWALD. About a week after I came from New Orleans.
Mr. RANKIN. And then you found that the rifle was in the blanket, did you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I saw the wooden part of it, the wooden stock.

---------------------

"I saw that it was a rifle. .... I saw the wooden part of it, the wooden stock." -- Marina Oswald

39 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

There was never any rifle at the Paine household.

And Jim can utter the above junk even though Marina said she saw the butt end of a rifle sticking out of the blanket in Ruth Paine's garage.

But I'm supposed to think Marina did nothing but tell one lie after another after the assassination, right James?

I guess she wanted to frame her own husband, so she told the story about seeing the rifle in the garage.

1 hour ago, Derek Thibeault said:

I personally believe he wasn't involved in either murder...

Then how can you reconcile all the witnesses at the Tippit scene? Why did so many identify OSWALD as the person they saw (if it really wasn't him)?

And how can you reconcile the fact that the bullet shells at the Tippit murder scene were tied conclusively to the same gun that Oswald had on him when he was arrested?

20 minutes ago, Derek Thibeault said:

So it just happened to be a random reason. So say he just goes back to his apartment instead. They still set him up but they don't have him bringing the rifle to work. Was that just lucky added evidence that he went there? Does Marina force him there?  That's pretty lucky for the conspirators that he had an argument with her and had to go back there.

Indeed, Derek. It's refreshing to see this kind of thinking on this forum. It's very rare. You're one of the very few here who actually thinks in a reasonable way regarding Oswald's out-of-the-ordinary behavior on Nov. 21 and 22.

Here's what I said to a CTer a few years ago....

"Don't you think it would be wise to evaluate Oswald's odd behavior on November 21 and 22 in connection with the physical evidence in the case, which all screams "Oswald"? Or would you prefer to isolate everything in a bubble and never be forced to assess Oswald's actions and movements in conjunction with all that physical evidence that came out of a gun owned by Lee Oswald? In my opinion, it's a package deal that fits together perfectly --- Oswald's actions + the physical evidence = Oswald's undeniable guilt in two murders in Dallas, Texas, on 11/22/63." -- DVP; June 2015

More:

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/06/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-959.html

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Have you ever admitted on your site that Humes told the ARRB and Jeremy Gunn that he not only incinerated his notes but his original autopsy report also?

Oh, sure. I certainly have. The topic of Dr. Humes burning the first draft of the autopsy report and his blood-stained notes has come up many times in the discussions I have archived at my site. For some examples, CLICK HERE.

And, BTW, Humes first testified about the burning of the first draft of the autopsy report in his 1964 Warren Commission testimony. That subject didn't first come up in the 1990s with the ARRB. Humes said this to Arlen Specter on Page 373 of WC Volume 2....

"In privacy of my own home, early in the morning of Sunday, November 24th, I made a draft of this report which I later revised, and of which this represents the revision. That draft I personally burned in the fireplace of my recreation room."

And Humes also testified in 1964 that he had "destroyed certain preliminary draft notes" (also at 2 H 373). The specific reason for the burning of the notes (the blood stains) was not mentioned by Humes in his Warren Commission testimony, however. But, as we can see, Humes admitted to having "burned" and "destroyed" both the first draft of the autopsy report and some draft notes during his WC testimony in 1964.

Quote

Have you ever indicated on you [site] that his original BS story about not having the blood of the president on [the] report as a souvenir was a pile of BS since he wrote the report in the confines of his home?

Dr. Humes never said the burned first draft of the autopsy report had any blood on it. The blood was only on the notes, not the "report".

33 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

We don't know who wrote the [autopsy] report we have today.

The above ridiculous sentence was written by a person who, just three sentences later, accused me of making "silly assertions".

Jim never gets tired of providing his readers with a non-stop flow of Pot/Kettle irony.

55 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

(FYI, the mastoid process is part of the ear! Why anyone would use that to locate a back wound is DVP's secret.  Because [it's] baloney.)

MY secret?? You're too funny, Jim.

Anyway, don't blame me. I didn't do the autopsy. Go blame Humes for measuring from the mastoid.

(Oh, wait, you DO blame Humes, right? And he's nothing but a l-i-a-r, to boot. So he's both incompetent AND a l-i-a-r, correct?)

5 minutes ago, Adam Johnson said:

David, no one is driving that car.......that can't be safe!

And I just noticed that Jackie & Nellie have been kidnapped out of the car too! (Plus Kellerman.)

I'm calling Chief Curry right now! Something's not right here!

And in addition to the multiple kidnappings, I also noticed that somebody stole Adam Johnson's and Jim DiEugenio's apostrophe keys too!

There oughta be a law!

5 hours ago, Adam Johnson said:

Try this one David......Arlen's left hand is reaching inside the car....Arlen's right hand is out side the car.....Therefore A Left to Right trajectory

What does the position of Specter's RIGHT hand have to do with anything?

And: the last photo you used isn't good at all for your "Left to Right" purposes. That's a photo from the SS re-enactment, using a standard Lincoln car. That's not a stretch Lincoln like SS-100-X.

Here's the correct angle (slightly Right to Left):