David Von Pein

It's rather hilarious to think that Jimmy D. thinks the plotters were SO STUPID that they decided to put a FAKE "March 12" date on the FAKE money order and then put a FAKE "March 13" date on the FAKE Waldman No. 7 invoice.

IOW---apparently the braindead plotters framing Oswald WANTED people to think the letter could get from Dallas to Chicago in one day's time --- even though crackerjack experts like Jimbo DiEugenio assure the world that such a journey was impossible.

Jim, please have those patsy framers fired---asap! They're all idiots.

And yet--incredibly--Jimbo buys into this "Everything's Fake" crap. Hysterical.

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-postmark-on-commission-exhibit-773.html

CTers refuse to ever drop a silly, unsubstantiated argument. Just look at the "Hidell Money Order" topic for proof of that.

The bleed-thru has been explained in a non-sinister way. And there's a FRB stamp on the M.O.

Do these things sway any CTer? Nah. Not a chance. The M.O. is just as "suspicious" now to Jimbo & Company as it ever was. Same with the "Zone 12" on the envelope. Jimbo will just ignore the facts regarding that "12" too.

But....that's Jimmy.

...how bizarre your ideas are.

Mister Irony strikes again. Hilarious.

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/01/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-81.html#The-Stupid-Things-James-DiEugenio-Believes

CTKA also does not host a forum.

My blog's not a forum either, Jimbo. But you know that, don't you? (And, no, I don't allow comments, even though I could allow them. Should I be sued for that too?)

Scott is right --- this thread is a joke. And the two Jims are competing as the top act in the big tent.

you have been doing this for years and years and years.

And CTKA just started yesterday, right Jimmy? I see.

What a joke.

​You are not aware of the replies on the web to the reviews we have posted at CTKA?

Are those replies hosted on YOUR site?

...and then you embroider them...

You think I "embroider" the direct quotes I get from here?

Your imagination is a remarkable thing to behold, Jimmy.

...so you can get the last word. Which is deceptive in itself since no one can contravene that last word.

And you think you DON'T get the "last word" when you write an article for your website?

So tell me....what's the major difference (in a "last word" fashion) between the way I cull a conversation for my blog and the way you structure an article for your website, such as your 2-part smear piece on DVP?

Answer----there is no difference at all, and you know it.

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-1.html

http://www.ctka.net/2010/dvp.html

The first idea, that I somehow use spots from this site in any real or significant way at CTKA is so ridiculous as to be bizarre.

I didn't say that my quotes you used (without my permission) in your 2-part smear piece against me in 2010 came from THIS site, Jimmy. I think most of the quotes you used came from Debra Conway's old Lancer forum. But, so what? The point is still the same. Lancer undoubtedly had about the same "Terms of Use" rules in place as Edu. Forum does, right?

So, did you get Lancer's express permission to use my quotes in your DVP smear piece? Of course you didn't. Nobody ever does. Who would? They're posts on a public forum. And I'm pretty certain Jon Tidd's first post is accurate. It's not illegal to copy quotes from any public forum or website and use them elsewhere on the Internet.

Can you just imagine the massive number of lawsuits that there would be if "copying & pasting" Internet quotes to other sites suddenly became a major violation? There wouldn't be enough lawyers in the world to handle all the cases. It's absurd.

Jim Hargrove started this ridiculous thread merely because of my status as a Lone Nutter -- and for NO other possible reason.

To prove I'm right, just ask yourself this question----

Do you think Hargrove would have even considered (for even a brief instant) starting up a thread like this one if it was Jim DiEugenio or John Armstrong or Mark Lane or Greg Parker or Jon Tidd who had copied posts written by other people to their websites? (And, of course, DiEugenio and Parker HAVE done just that--many times--in the past. What person who owns a "JFK" website HASN'T?)

I rest my case.

My daughter as a child routinely won this wonderful game at carnivals.

And Jon went home with a sore head.

Hmm. So Davey's piggybacking and "recreations' are a violation.

Yeah, sure, Jimmy. And you've NEVER copied anyone's posts from JFK forums to use in your CTKA articles, have you? Like, say, this little smear piece against "Disinformation Dave", as you called him....

http://www.ctka.net/2010/dvp.html

Pot meets Kettle (again).

And I sure hope to God that Jimbo got bank supervisor "Craig's" express written approval before quoting him in this thread above. If not, a lawsuit will surely be pending!

What specifically is the "order" anyway? Is it the coupon cut out from the magazine? The money order? Both?

The "order letter" that Chief Jesse Curry refers to in his hallway press conference on the night of Nov. 23 is CE773, which is the microfilm of the order form clipped by Oswald out of the Feb. '63 American Rifleman magazine. That's the microfilmed document that was the basis for the FBI's findings that the "order letter" had Oswald's writing on it. That order form, of course, doesn't have the $21.45 figure on it either. Nor does it have $12.78 on it. It has $19.95 on it. (Shall we dance some more over those three figures?)

David, can you write a quick summary for me so that I can understand what happened. I'll write one up right now to give you an idea of what I want:

1. The FBI has the serial number, C2766. (I'm not sure how they got that, but I'll try to understand that later.)

2. The FBI guys search the Kleins microfilm for seven hours and find what they THINK they are looking for... an order with C2766 printed on it. (Even though it wasn't)

3. The order is dated March 20 (now we're talking about the money order, right?) for $21.95.

4. The FBI authenticated Oswald's handwriting.

5. They discover they had the wrong order. (But then how did they authenticate Oswald's handwriting??)

David, I don't know how to fix the above with your solution to the problem. You say they were searching for an order with the wrong price. But I thought they were searching for an order with a given serial number, C2766, not with a given price.

1. The FBI did, indeed, have the serial number. (They had the rifle in their possession at 11:45 PM CST on Friday, you know. So why would you be surprised they knew the serial number? And even if they didn't have the rifle themselves, the FBI could have simply telephoned the DPD and gotten the number from them at any time on Nov. 22....couldn't they?)

2. The FBI discovers from a gun dealer in Dallas that Italian surplus WW2 rifles were being distributed by Crescent Firearms in New York City. This leads the FBI to Klein's in Chicago after finding out that Crescent had sold the "C2766" rifle to Klein's.

3. The Klein's records are searched and the "C2766" invoice is found (via what would soon become "Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 7"), which provides all the pertinent information about the sale of Italian rifle No. C2766 for $21.45 to one A. Hidell of Dallas, Texas (via "M.O." [Money Order]) on March 20, 1963 (which is the date the FBI goes with, instead of the date stamped at the very top of Waldman No. 7--March 13, 1963--which was the date Klein's put the Hidell order through their cash register, as William Waldman explained in his Warren Commission testimony; the March 20 date was, of course, the date the rifle was shipped to Hidell/Oswald).

4. Somebody connected with the discovery of the "Waldman No. 7" invoice must have transmitted the wrong purchase price to other FBI personnel ($21.95 instead of $21.45), which led to confusion when the FBI and Secret Service began searching for the money order that was used to pay for the rifle.

5. In addition to the internal Klein's invoice (Waldman No. 7), the FBI also found the "order letter" (as Curry called it), which is CE773. They quickly determined that the writing on the order form was that of Lee Harvey Oswald.

In short, there was no "wrong order". Somebody just wrote down or transmitted to somebody the wrong purchase price after the discovery of Waldman No. 7. But even though some officials had the wrong price, there were others who knew the correct price of $21.45 for the Hidell rifle order, because we find the correct figure being written in two separate reports (connected with the discovery of the money order) authored by both the FBI and the Secret Service on November 23 -- CD75 and CD87.

Also see:

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-postmark-on-commission-exhibit-773.html

That reveals reams of info to everyone but you.

And you still don't understand that.

The only thing it really reveals is how eager CTers like James DiEugenio are to take that gun out of Lee Oswald's hands. You know, just as I do, that there was no Klein's order found in the amount of $21.95. Somebody relayed the wrong price after the FBI and Klein's discovered Waldman No. 7 in the Klein's files at 4:30 AM on Nov. 23rd. One slipped digit--that's all. Nothing more. And you still don't understand that.

Jimmy,

When it came time to look for the money order, they were most certainly looking for the AMOUNT, not the serial number. (The serial number wasn't on the M.O.)

And this sentence written by John Armstrong....

"They did, however, find documentation that showed Klein's sold a $21.95 rifle that was paid for with a postal money order issued on March 20, 1963."

....is just a flat-out distortion of the facts, because the FBI most certainly did NOT find any $21.95 Klein's order form for the C2766 rifle. They found the Waldman Exhibit No. 7 document, which is the ONLY document that has BOTH a price and the C2766 serial number on it--and Armstrong knows it. He's merely trying to turn an innocent error regarding the exact amount of the purchase ($21.95 vs. $21.45) into a mountain of conspiracy and cover-up. Silly beyond belief.

Von Pein has suffered lately, mightily...

Yeah, Healy, the recent verification that Oswald's money order is legit and genuine (via the File Locator Number) was a real bummer for the LN side, wasn't it?

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/The-File-Locator-Number-On-The-Hidell-Money-Order

BTW:

When Healy makes his first post here that has any "JFK" substance to it, please call ABC and FOX News immediately! That will be major Breaking News.

So its [sic] back to shoring up his own disinfo site.

I'll bet the moderators just love comments like this.

Sandy,

The FBI didn't get the "wrong order" from the microfilm. There WAS NO ORDER FOR $21.95 for the C2766 rifle. That was merely a slipped digit. And Harry Holmes talks about that mistake in his testimony too. That was one of the reasons it took a little longer to find the $21.45 Hidell money order --- because they were searching (in vain) for the wrong amount ($21.95). Once they realized what the correct figure was--$21.45--they found it very quickly.

Do you think Waldman No. 7 is a fake document, Sandy? It clearly says $21.45 on it. And it also says C2766. And it says A. Hidell. And Italian Carbine. And William Waldman testified in detail about that order form. Was he a plotter too?



jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/12/oswald-ordered-rifle.html

I feel kind of sorry for people who insist on making conspiratorial mountains out of ordinary run-of-the-mill molehills.

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/04/Ruth Paine's Calendar

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/12/Oswald Ordered The Rifle

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/10/The Hidell Money Order

Davey:

Curry, of the police said that the FBI reported that price. For a rifle with scope.

I mean you did read the article right?

OK, I see what you mean now.

But keep in mind that when Curry told the press about the $12.78 price for the rifle, the complete information concerning the $21.45 money order had not been revealed to Chief Curry yet. I believe Curry provided the $12.78 info at about 7 PM Dallas time on 11/23, while the money order was recovered at 9:35 PM EST (8:35 PM Dallas time) on 11/23. The SS and FBI knew a little earlier than that, of course, that they were looking for a MO in the amount of $21.45 (see CD87), but the DPD wouldn't necessarily have been privy to the $21.45 price until much later (assuming they were ever provided that figure by the SS or FBI, which perhaps they weren't, I don't really know).

So the press people went with the info they had available as of Curry's makeshift conference at DPD at 7:00 on Nov. 23 --- i.e., Oswald's writing was traced to the Klein's "order letter" (not the money order), with Curry telling the reporters this....

"I believe the gun was supposed to cost twelve dollars and seventy-eight cents, I believe. I believe it was advertised in some magazine for that."

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=119

Davey:

Did you even read your own evidence?

How does this apply to your argument?

I have no idea what you mean here.

Jim H.,

Why do you say "J. Edgar Hoover" made the mistake regarding the $12.78 price? The PRESS and the MEDIA were spreading the "$12.78" price around. Not Hoover.

BTW, I didn't draw the circle in that ad.

When you look at the FACTS, it's utterly AMAZING that FBI techs could analyze LHO's handwriting so quickly with absolutely nothing to go on.

What's even more "utterly AMAZING", Jim H., is that you ascribe something sinister to something so easy to figure out in a non-sinister fashion. The press just kept repeating the same incorrect price for the gun. The $12.78 figure was the number in BIG print in the Nov. '63 Klein's ads, so that's the number the media (and Curry) went with. Simple as that.

But if he is saying that they knew it had a scope, then why did so many outlets still get it wrong?

Because they simply kept repeating the main $12.78 price for the rifle (without the scope) that was originally reported by Chief Curry on TV on 11/23/63. Nobody in the media took the time in those first few days to seek out what the price was WITH the scope included. Big deal.

There's no cover-up there. Just a lack of details regarding the "With Scope" price.

Again .... big deal. It's only a "big deal" to rabid conspiracy theorists like you, Jim.

In summary, I can't see merit in any of your allegations against Jim DiEugenio...

Gee, what a surprise.

Hopefully you're not generalizing when you say he [James DiEugenio] doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'll let you decide.....

jfk-archives.blogspot.com / The-Stupid-Things-James-DiEugenio-Believes