David Von Pein

Jon, Waldman #7 is an internal Klein's form. The customer never sees that form at all. It's generated by Klein's after they receive the order form in the mail from the customer. From 7 H 366... DAVID BELIN -- "Now, I'm going to hand you what has been marked as Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 7 and ask you to state if you know what this is." WILLIAM J. WALDMAN -- "This is a copy made from our microfilm reader-printer of an order received by Klein's from a Mr. A. Hidell, Post Office Box No. 2915, in Dallas, Texas. I want to clarify that this is not the order, itself, received from Mr. Hidell, but it's a form created by us internally from an order received from Mr. Hidell on a small coupon taken from an advertisement of ours in a magazine." 7 H 366: http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0187b.htm I do wonder why William Waldman refers to Hidell as "Mister"? The order coupon that Oswald mailed to Klein's says simply "A. Hidell", which could be a female ordering the gun for all Klein's knew at the time in March 1963. (Although I suppose it might be a bit unusual for a woman to be ordering firearms from Klein's Sporting Goods; but it certainly could happen.) Obviously, though, Mr. Waldman would have later become aware that "A. Hidell" was, in fact, Lee Harvey Oswald, who was, of course, a "Mister". But I just wanted to put that out there before a conspiracist jumps all over Waldman for improperly addressing Hidell as "Mr. A. Hidell". Perhaps some CTers think that the "Mister" indicates William Waldman had advanced knowledge of who "Hidell" was prior to Waldman's Warren Commission session and, therefore, Waldman was part of the alleged "plot" to frame "Mr. Hidell". I've never heard that theory---but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it resides in some CTer's mind right now. [NOTE -- Edited by DVP to correct error in Waldman's testimony above that appears on the McAdams/Marquette website. There's a chunk of Waldman's testimony omitted on the McAdams page for some reason. The above testimony is taken directly from 7 H 366 as it appears on Rex Bradford's "History Matters" site.]

Thanks, Steve. And my thanks to Colin Crow too, for the extra links. FYI... I put in my two cents' worth about the "Bags & Bones" subjects just last month. I've archived much of those discussions at my site, here.... jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/03/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-914.html

But, B.A., do you really think Klein's is a co-conspirator in this thing? Really? If so....for what possible purpose? Coerced by the FBI to do so? Or don't you consider that a valid question for me to ask?

Well, that's certainly good enough for me, Brad. That's all I need to hear. If Mrs. Rodgers said it, it's got to be true. Thanks, Brad. The case is solved.

It's Von Pein, Brad and David. Not just Pein. And what's a "honey-boo rerun"? I'm intrigued.

Therefore, David J., you think KLEIN'S SPORTING GOODS of Chicago, Illinois, played a large part in the "plot" to frame Lee Oswald. Is that correct? You do realize how goofy that accusation is, don't you David? And why would anybody think it strange that the name "Lee Harvey Oswald" doesn't appear on Waldman 7 when Oswald used his alias Hidell to order the rifle? Should Klein's have shipped the gun to "Oswald" even though the name on the order form said "Hidell"? Video regarding the rifle and Klein's:

David J., The DPD figured out who did it on Day 1. It was quite obvious to them. After all, they charged the man named Oswald with TWO murders prior to midnight on the 22nd. And you don't do that unless you've got a TAD BIT of something called "evidence" to back up those TWO murder charges. Right, David J.? It took the DPD 11 hours to figure it out. It's taken the CTers 51 years to figure out....nothing. Go figure.

B.A. Copeland, Do you believe this document below is really a fake document? Because if you don't, then Klein's positively shipped Rifle C2766 to Oswald/"Hidell" on 3/20/63 (regardless of the fact Oswald had actually ordered from a coupon advertising a 36-inch gun).... Waldman No. 7 pictured above sinks every conspiracist who has ever uttered these words: "Lee Harvey Oswald never ordered any rifle from Klein's and was never shipped any rifle by Klein's."

Asked and answered -----> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21855#entry301550 So why are you asking it again?

Well, Bob, let me turn the tables --- Why do YOU post so much, Bob? Using your words, "Why on earth would you even care?"

Because there's always a very small chance that there are a few "lurkers" out there who haven't been totally sucked into the abyss created by the Internet conspiracy believers. (And based on the 2013 polls, the number of CTers is dropping fairly quickly---to 59% via one of the polls--which is always good to see.) So if I can counteract a little bit of the silly "conspiracy" talk on the Web, it's a pleasure to do so. As Jon G. Tidd accurately said above, no CTer on the Internet is ever going to be swayed by one single thing ANY LNer says, or will ever say. (Has that EVER happened since the Internet was invented? If it has, I've yet to encounter it.) But since freedom of speech and expression and opinion hasn't been outlawed in the USA (to my knowledge), I can try to get the "Oswald was guilty" message out there....because I think Oswald was guilty (and was a lone assassin).

Probably James W. Powell. Also..... "If Lee Harvey Oswald could easily misidentify a newsman as a Secret Service agent in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 (and he did, per his comments about this matter to the police after his arrest) -- then why is it out of the realm of possibility for other witnesses in the Plaza to have made the very same kind of mistake that Oswald made that day?" -- DVP; April 9, 2009 Or, to use the words of Vincent Bugliosi: "From all the evidence it clearly appears that the Secret Service sightings on the grassy knoll and behind the Book Depository Building after the shooting are entitled to about the same weight as Oswald's statement in Captain Fritz's office about being confronted by a Secret Service agent in front of the Book Depository Building." -- Page 871 of "Reclaiming History" Lots more on the "Fake Secret Service Agents" here.... jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/08/fake-secret-service-agents.html And here.... jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/05/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-710.html

Many conspiracy theorists believe that the Warren Commission was created merely to cover up the truth about President Kennedy's assassination. And some conspiracists also believe that Earl Warren's Commission, in effect, framed the late Lee Harvey Oswald for the murders of both Kennedy and policeman J.D. Tippit, with those particular conspiracy theorists believing that the Warren Commission knew full well that Oswald was totally innocent of both of those murders, but the Commission decided to conclude in its final report that Oswald was guilty of those crimes and that he had acted alone. To the conspiracy theorists who possess such a nonsensical mindset, I offer up at the link below several excerpts from Vincent Bugliosi's book, "Reclaiming History". And after reading these book excerpts, a good question to then ask CTers would be this one---- Is this how the Warren Commission would have behaved if the MAIN OBJECTIVE of the members of that Commission was to rubber-stamp the "Oswald Did It Alone" conclusion reached by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the FBI's 12/9/63 report on the assassination? ..... JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/09/warren-commission-objectives.html --------------

If I could travel back to late 1963 and early 1964 in a time machine, one of the things I would be most anxious to do would be to sit in on a few of the executive sessions of the Warren Commission (in a "fly on the wall" manner), just to hear for myself what was being discussed (even "off the record") during those Commission meetings. maryferrell.org / WC Executive Sessions And if such "fly on the wall" eavesdropping on the Warren Commission could be accomplished in a handy time machine, I have a feeling that every single bogus cloud of suspicion that many conspiracy theorists have decided to hang over the heads of the entire Commission would evaporate very quickly. And the reason that such suspicions would disappear in very quick order is because people like Burt Griffin and David Belin were telling the truth -- they really did want to find a conspiracy. But they couldn't do it....because Lee Harvey Oswald really was the lone assassin of President Kennedy and Jack Ruby really was a second "lone nut" in Dallas in November 1963. Sometimes things really are as they appear to be. David Von Pein October 29, 2009 ========================================== COLIN CROW SAID: History shows that the Warren Commision [sic] ultimately did not convince the majority of the US public (and world) that there was not a conspiracy. This was it's [sic] prime objective... DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Oh, goodie, that old canard again. Any chance you can prove that the "prime objective" of the Warren Commission was to whitewash things? Any chance of that at all? A conspiracy theorist believing that somebody (or some group) was up to no good is meaningless. What the CTers need is some kind of proof that people were conspiring with each other to do the following: 1.) Kill JFK. 2.) Make Oswald the patsy. 3.) Whitewash ALL of the various post-assassination investigations so that everybody would think Oswald (and Ruby) did it alone -- including the Dallas Police Department's initial investigation on the weekend of November 22-24, 1963, plus the Warren Commission's investigation, plus the HSCA's probe into the murder. And to believe that ALL THREE of those individual investigations into President Kennedy's murder were "whitewash" jobs is just too ridiculous a thought to consider for more than two seconds. And yet, a goodly number of conspiracy theorists think that ALL THREE of those investigative agencies were, indeed, part of a "cover-up". Such thinking is silly beyond all tolerance. To date, none of the above three things has been proven by the conspiracy believers of the world. And they never will be proven, because none of the extraordinary things that conspiracists think happened in this case really happened. Nor could they have happened in the real world in which we live. David Von Pein January 13, 2010

I agree. But I think in Oswald's case, the truth rests more with Oswald wanting to GET OUT of the United States and abandon American life than it does with him wanting to sing the Star Spangled Banner every day. He wants to go to Russia (of all places)! He wants to go to Cuba (again--of all places)! And you think THAT'S a man who is deeply fond of the USA?

Via either method, one irrevocable conclusion becomes very plain --- Marina's husband killed two people on November 22nd. The only way to avoid that conclusion is to just ignore all the evidence. (IMHO.)

Hi Larry, You're correct, Oswald didn't "legally defect" to Russia. But he sure as heck wanted to in October of '59. But then, like with other things in his life, he became dissatisfied with life in the USSR too, so back he comes to America. He was pretty much dissatisfied with everything in his life. Drifting from one lowly job to another, drifting from one American city to the next, and even drifting from one country to another (while trying desperately to get to a third---Cuba). If some people want to think that all that adds up to a young man who loves the United States (despite telling a policeman in New Orleans the exact opposite), well, okay. Everybody's entitled to their views. But given Oswald's last attempt to ditch America for yet another hostile nation--Castro's Cuba--via LHO's Mexico excursion in Sept. '63, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that Mr. Oswald was in love with the good ol' USA.

What about Lee's trying to defect to a hostile nation, Mark? Just more "bravado"?

Mark, Oswald had four years to start hating America between the time he was discharged from the Marines and the time he told Martello that he "hated America" in August of 1963. Tell me, Mark, do you think Francis Martello just MADE UP the "HATED AMERICA" dialogue that he attributed to Lee Harvey Oswald? If so, what for? Conversely, if Oswald DID say what Martello said he said, do you think Oswald was LYING to Martello? Did Lee really love his country of birth, but told Martello he hated it? And what kind of person voluntarily leaves a country he loves in order to defect to a nation like Russia? That move ALONE shows Oswald's dissatisfaction with American life. Wouldn't you agree, Mark? Or do you think Oswald was a "fake defector"? IOW -- Is ANYTHING surrounding Lee H. Oswald what it seems to be? Or was Oswald's entire life pretty much nothing but smoke and mirrors?

Not a trickle of doubt exists in my own mind about those CORE beliefs (aka: "facts", IMO) regarding things like.... >> Oswald's ownership of both the JFK and Tippit murder weapons (the paperwork is a mile deep that proves LHO ordered and was shipped BOTH guns). jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/mannlicher-carcano.html jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/08/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-42.html >> Oswald's attempted murder of General Walker. jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/12/edwin-walker-and-lee-harvey-oswald.html >> Oswald's guilt in President Kennedy's murder. Oswald-Is-Guilty.blogspot.com >> Oswald's guilt in Tippit's murder. jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#JD-Tippit All of the above things are proven facts, in my opinion. And they've been proven in a number of different ways too, which all have to be added together to provide the full picture --- e.g., ballistics evidence, eyewitness testimony and statements, Oswald's own incriminating actions, and documents written in Oswald's own handwriting. I mean, Jon, when a guy is caught with his hands on the very same gun that was used to kill a police officer just 35 minutes earlier, how much more proof is needed to prove he committed at least THAT murder on 11/22/63? Even if we were to debate the Tippit case for another 200 years, the fact remains (given the evidence) that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't possibly be innocent of shooting J.D. Tippit. Only in the outer reaches of the world of speculation and fantasy could anyone believe that Oswald didn't kill Officer Tippit. But, amazingly, many Internet CTers reside in just such a world. In short, I'm not an "Everything Was Faked" believer. Therefore, to me, Lee Oswald's status as a proven double-murderer couldn't be any clearer.

Oh, come now, Mark. We all know why Lee went into the Marines. He did it in order to get away from that very strange mother of his. He didn't join the military because of his desire to fight for America and its principles.

Is there any website in the whole world (JFK-related or otherwise) that is more vile and more utterly disgusting than that smut factory known as "ROKC"? If so, I've yet to see it. Can you even imagine wanting to be a member of such a filth-ridden community? If any of the posters there can go two consecutive posts without uttering enough expletives to make George Carlin blush, it'd be a miracle. Yuck! I'll stay here at EF. I don't agree with most of the members here. But at least there's some common decency being exhibited.

The key is Oswald's hatred of America's "representatives", which Oswald tells us about in CE25 (16 H 120).... http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0072b.htm But there is also some evidence that Lee Oswald did, indeed, "hate America". New Orleans Police Lieutenant Francis Martello's memorandum concerning his interview with Oswald in August of '63 was read into the record by the Warren Commission [at 10 H 56]: "When Martello asked why he [Oswald] did not allow members of his family to learn English, Lee said that he hated America and didn't want them to become "Americanized" and that he planned to return to Russia." -- Page 724 of Vince Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History" 10 H 56: http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/html/WC_Vol10_0032b.htm Yes, Lt. Martello's statements about the things Oswald said to him at the New Orleans jail are hearsay, but they are in the record nonetheless. And Martello's memo definitely says that Oswald said he "hated America".

I posted the above "SIX THINGS" article at John McAdams' aaj newsgroup and received this feedback which might be of interest.... JOHN CORBETT SAID: A classic crime of opportunity. You could add to your list the selection of the Trade Mart for the luncheon, which played a factor in #3. Since any motorcade would likely have been routed through downtown, any luncheon site would probably have resulted in the motorcade going through Dealey Plaza, but the selection of the Trade Mart resulted in the jog over to Elm St. from Main St., making Oswald's shot much easier. He may not have even attempted a shot at JFK if he was on Main. Another luncheon site might have resulted in the motorcade going through downtown in the reverse direction that it did. The motorcade might have been routed from Love Field, past Parkland to southbound Stemmons to Dealey Plaza. In that case, it might have even ended up on Commerce and jogged over to Main on Houston. "For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!' " -- John Greenleaf EDWARD BAUER SAID: Great analysis, DVP. I would add: As an ex-Marine, Oswald possessed the marksmanship expertise required to hit a moving target at that distance and the knowledge of the indispensable requirement to first zero the firearm using the windage and elevation screws on the scope. ANTHONY MARSH SAID: Well, in fact the motorcade was not scheduled to pass the TSBD at NOON. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Just for the sake of clarification, I did not say in my "Six Things" article that JFK's motorcade was due to arrive in Dealey Plaza "at NOON". I said "RIGHT AT LUNCHTIME", "at noontime", and "lunch period". I didn't put an exacting "12:00 noon" timestamp on it. I merely said "lunchtime" and "noontime" and "lunch period", which is perfectly accurate. Also.... President Kennedy's written itinerary for 11/22/63 shows these two entries: "11:45 am -- Motorcade through Dallas" "12:30 pm -- Arrive Trade Mart for Luncheon" [source for the above picture --- Screen capture from the 2013 National Geographic documentary "JFK: The Final Hours".] Now, given those times shown above, Anthony Marsh surely can't argue with me about this part of my "Six Things" post repeated below. Can you, Tony?.... "Not only did Kennedy's visit to Dallas occur on a workday for Oswald (a Friday), but the parade route took JFK's limo past the Book Depository Building RIGHT AT LUNCHTIME as well, which meant that most TSBD employees were on their normal lunch breaks at that hour of the day. .... This meant fewer people staying on the upper Depository floors...with those employees going down to the first-floor "Domino/Lunch Room" or the second-floor lunch room (or going outside the building to watch the President pass by) during the exact time when Lee Oswald would require a VACANT sixth floor in his preparations for shooting the President during this Friday lunch period." David Von Pein April 25-26, 2015

SIX THINGS MADE TO ORDER FOR LEE HARVEY OSWALD Lee Harvey Oswald was lucky enough (from his warped point-of-view) to have these six things all align themselves into perfect harmony on November 22, 1963: 1.) He (Oswald) hated America and its Government's representatives. 2.) Oswald owned and had ready access to a rifle in November '63. 3.) Oswald worked in a building which just happened to overlook the last portion of JFK's motorcade route through Dallas on 11/22/63. 4.) It stopped raining prior to 12:00 noon on 11/22/63 (hence, the bubbletop roof was left off of JFK's limousine for the motorcade drive through Dallas). The bubbletop roof was not bulletproof at all, but it's quite possible that Oswald wouldn't have known that fact on November 22nd. Seeing the roof in place that day, if it continued to rain, just might have made Oswald think twice about firing those gunshots at the limo. 5.) Oswald was lucky enough to have President Kennedy visit Dallas on a Friday (i.e., a regular workday for Lee Oswald and the other Book Depository employees), instead of, say, a Saturday or a Sunday. 6.) Another small item that relates to #5 above is something that could well have played a very big factor in Oswald pulling off the shooting that Friday -- and that is the fact that not only did Kennedy's visit to Dallas occur on a workday for Oswald (a Friday), but the parade route took JFK's limo past the Book Depository Building RIGHT AT LUNCHTIME as well, which meant that most TSBD employees were on their normal lunch breaks at that hour of the day (and would have been even if Kennedy had not been scheduled to drive by the building at noontime). The normal time for the warehouse employees to break for lunch at the Depository was from 12:00 Noon to 12:45 PM, just exactly the time period when President Kennedy was scheduled to drive through Dealey Plaza on Friday, November 22nd. That information was confirmed via the Warren Commission testimony of Buell Wesley Frazier (the 19-year-old who drove Oswald to work on the morning of the assassination): WESLEY FRAZIER -- "12 o'clock is when we always eat lunch." JOSEPH BALL -- "12 to 12:45?" FRAZIER -- "Right." This meant fewer people staying on the upper Depository floors (i.e., the "warehouse" floors, which were floors 5, 6, and 7), with those employees going down to the first-floor "Domino/Lunch Room" or the second-floor lunch room (or going outside the building to watch the President pass by) during the exact time when Lee Oswald would require a VACANT sixth floor in his preparations for shooting the President during this Friday lunch period. For Oswald, the above combination of things was simply a made-to-order combination of factors that just fell into his lap on November 22nd, 1963, including item numbers 4, 5, and 6 mentioned above, which are things that Oswald HIMSELF could not possibly have had any control over whatsoever. And even #3 as well, to the extent that Oswald was hired at the TSBD on October 15, 1963, which was a full month prior to anyone officially announcing the details of JFK's final motorcade route through Dallas (which included the turn onto Elm Street in front of the Depository). Happenstance (and a kook named Lee Oswald, who definitely had murder running through his own veins, as evidenced by the fact he tried to kill General Edwin Walker in April 1963) got John F. Kennedy killed. Not conspiracy. David Von Pein January 2008 Revised November 2011 jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/six-things-made-to-order-for-lho.html