David Von Pein

Go Home Kamp!

Boy, were those plotters who were framing Oswald a bunch of lucky SOBs or what? Everybody on the steps turns out to be subservient to the demands of Hoover's Almighty FBI. And yet we still have NON-subservient "CT" witnesses popping up like S.M. Holland and Jean Hill and Marguerite Oswald and Lee Bowers and A.J. Millican (and many more). But maybe it was only the "TSBD Workers" who bowed down to Hoover's cover-up demands, eh?

And yet many other TSBD workers were able to recall the names of the other people who were standing around them out on the steps on 11/22 --- even in the midst of "a motorcade, a President, a First Lady, [and] gunfire". And yet none of those employees said a word about Lee Oswald being among them on the steps. Go figure. The logical (and sensible) answer, of course, is ----- Lee was never out there in the first place.

This is a very poor argument, in my opinion. Kamp is obviously implying that at least a FEW employees on the steps DID see and recognize Lee Oswald as a person who was also on the front stoop of the Depository Building at 12:30 PM, but due to the evil strong-arming tactics of the authorities (FBI, DPD, etc.), absolutely none of these TSBD employees (zero!!) had the courage to come forth in CE1381 (aka Commission Document No. 706) and tell the truth about Oswald being on the front porch of the Depository. In other words, all of those witnesses who DID see Oswald out there simply LIED through their individual and collective teeth in CD706/CE1381! And Buell Frazier, who would have been standing within just a few short feet of LHO, must surely be one of those l-i-a-r-s, right Kamp?

And there's 70+ more in CD706. All of which say "I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald...". These statements mean NOTHING to the PM CTers, of course.... http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11104&relPageId=2

Kamp uses a batch of pure mush and visual slop to try and prove a point, and yet it's me who is "pathetic". Ya gotta love the arrogance of ABO CTers.

Seeing as how ALL of the physical evidence in the whole case points right at Oswald.....how could anyone believe "Prayer Man" is LHO? ~shrug~

You think that batch of worthless fuzziness can tell us ANYTHING at all? Get real.

Chalk one up for Tony Krome. Good point.

For any person who believes that the "Prayer Man" figure is Lee Harvey Oswald and for those who are unaware of the document linked below, I'd recommend that they read that document, which is an April 3, 1964, FBI report consisting of signed statements from 73 different Book Depository employees. The FBI, in these statements, sought to discover some basic information from those 73 TSBD employees, including whether each of the employees had seen Lee Harvey Oswald at the time of JFK's assassination. And if you read through all 73 statements, you'll find that there wasn't a single employee who said they saw Oswald at the time the shooting took place --- not even among the several people who said they were located on or near the front steps of the Depository at 12:30 PM on 11/22/63. Do the "Prayer Man" advocates think all of the people who were in a position to see Oswald on or near the steps were lying? Or were they all just not very observant? And if it's the latter option, then conspiracy theorists have got to admit one thing for sure --- any conspirators who might have been attempting to frame Lee Harvey Oswald for President Kennedy's murder on November 22nd sure as heck got awfully lucky when their designated "patsy", who was standing right out in the open in front of the building for all to potentially see, just happened to go totally unnoticed in the eyes of every single spectator who was standing nearby. Patsy-framing assassination plotters don't get that lucky very often. Do they? ....

For any person who believes that the "Prayer Man" figure is Lee Harvey Oswald and for those who are unaware of the document linked below, I'd recommend that they read that document, which is an April 3, 1964, FBI report consisting of signed statements from 73 different Book Depository employees. The FBI, in these statements, sought to discover some basic information from those 73 TSBD employees, including whether each of the employees had seen Lee Harvey Oswald at the time of JFK's assassination. And if you read through all 73 statements, you'll find that there wasn't a single employee who said they saw Oswald at the time the shooting took place --- not even among the several people who said they were located on or near the front steps of the Depository at 12:30 PM on 11/22/63. Do the "Prayer Man" advocates think all of the people who were in a position to see Oswald on or near the steps were lying? Or were they all just not very observant? And if it's the latter option, then conspiracy theorists have got to admit one thing for sure --- any conspirators who might have been attempting to frame Lee Harvey Oswald for President Kennedy's murder on November 22nd sure as heck got awfully lucky when their designated "patsy", who was standing right out in the open in front of the building for all to potentially see, just happened to go totally unnoticed in the eyes of every single spectator who was standing nearby. Patsy-framing assassination plotters don't get that lucky very often. Do they? ....

Of course it doesn't. Most of the junk I "share" on my site taken from CTers' posts at this place isn't true. Far from it. However, I have no reason to believe (as of this moment) that Brian Doyle just MADE UP that quote from Debra Conway that he posted at Duncan's forum.

So, you DON'T think Buell Frazier was on the steps at all, huh? ~shrug~

Beats me. I just happened to spy it on Duncan's forum tonight, so I thought I'd share it.

Maybe somebody should ask Buell Wesley Frazier that question, instead of asking me.

From Duncan MacRae's forum....  "I just had a nice half hour phone conversation with Debra Conway and she told me Buell Frazier has told her several times that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton. Conway then told me, "I know Buell, and I don't think he would lie about a thing like that"." -- Brian Doyle; February 17, 2019

FWIW.... "I just had a nice half hour phone conversation with Debra Conway and she told me Buell Frazier has told her several times that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton. Conway then told me, "I know Buell, and I don't think he would lie about a thing like that"." -- Brian Doyle; 2/17/2019

From Richard Trask's outstanding 1994 book, "Pictures Of The Pain": "A Texas Department of Public Safety driver was assigned to this car [Camera Car #3] which also carried local Dallas TV 16mm cameramen Jim Underwood, Malcolm Couch, and Jimmy Darnell." -- Page 437 of "POTP" [...] "Wiegman's camera was a FILMO, almost identical to Craven's, except that Wiegman did not use a handle. .... The wide angle lens he used varied from a 9mm, 10mm, or 13mm, though on the Texas trip, Wiegman thinks he used a 10mm." -- Pages 363-364 of "POTP"

But at the same time....so meaningless. Marina Oswald looked at the same crappy, fuzzy image that all of us have looked at, and yet she somehow KNOWS "It's Lee". Yeah, right.

Ten-Four. I was just curious if this forum offered up some kind of "Thread Participant Statistics" or something like that there. But thanks for admitting you performed such a meaningless manual mathematics task in order to try and bash Francois and myself some more. Good job! Yeah, I usually do that same thing when I see your posts too----"skim & ignore". I'm not "upset" in the least. I'm actually kind of pleased that this thread was started, because it has given me some opportunities to add some of my thoughts about certain aspects of the case that I don't think I had yet archived at my website in the past ---- such as these comments concerning Buell Wesley Frazier, which have arisen in this thread.... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2019/02/jfk-arguments-part-1308.html#The-Rough-Treatment-Of-Buell-Wesley-Frazier http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2019/02/jfk-arguments-part-1308.html#Frazier-2002-Bombshell My "Part 1308" is getting to be pert-near as long a page as Part 1058 (the "Hidell Money Order" discussion, which I think has the current record for "longest page" on my site at this time; that one takes about a year-and-a-half to read [~wink~]; but it's worth it, because it's such a fun battle, with more twists and turns and conspiracists in denial than a whole month's worth of posts at EF & DPF combined!).

When looking this up in the Warren Report, I noticed a rare error in the WCR's Index, where it says "O.V. Campbell" is mentioned on three pages of the Warren Report, including Pages 334-335. But when going to p.334-35, we find it's not "O.V. Campbell" being mentioned at all, but instead it's Don Campbell on those two pages. So O.V. Campbell is mentioned only once in reality---on p.154. https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0452b.htm

That's a fair question. (And, yes, I know what you're implying by asking that question. I'm not quite as stupid as most CTers want to believe.) And I don't have an answer to your question, Tony. I have no idea. But, as I stated in a previous post, I definitely do think there was some "conflation" of the facts going on in those early stories that were being printed in the various newspapers around the country and being broadcast on TV and radio. It's my belief that the Dallas Morning News article is really describing the encounter with Oswald that took place on the second floor, not "in a storage room on the first floor". But the DMN, quite obviously, must have gotten the (erroneous) info about the "storage room" from somebody. They certainly didn't just make it up out of whole cloth. So, yes, somebody told someone from the DMN that a policeman had stopped Oswald on the first floor. Who provided that information to the DMN? I haven't the foggiest. Maybe it was Ochus Campbell. I don't know. Do you know? Does anybody? But, to me, there is ample corroboration between both Marrion Baker and Roy Truly to verify and prove that the one and only "encounter" that Officer Baker had with any person (i.e., suspect) inside the Book Depository occurred on the second floor and no other floor. The above paragraph is either true---or the conspiracy theorists who think otherwise are going to have to do some picking-and-choosing of their own when it comes to which first-day story they want to believe....i.e., Do CTers want to believe what was printed in the Dallas Morning News on Saturday morning, November 23, 1963, which says that an "officer", with his "gun drawn"...."spotted Oswald"...."in a storage room on the first floor"? Or do conspiracists want to believe Marrion Baker's 11/22/63 signed affidavit, which states that Baker encountered a man on "the third or fourth floor"? They can't both be accurate, right? So one of those two accounts must be wrong. Although, strangely enough, it seems as though many conspiracy theorists seem to want to embrace both of those accounts as being the absolute truth. ~shrug~ Or, as an alternative, do CTers want to believe that there were really TWO different "encounters" between police officers and suspects within the TSBD on 11/22/63, with one of those encounters occurring on the 3rd or 4th floor, while another encounter (involving, apparently, a policeman who was not Marrion L. Baker) occurred "in a storage room on the first floor"? It looks to me as if the CTers also have a choice to make as far as the things they want to accept as "true" vs. "erroneous" when it comes to evaluating some of the first-day information that was being revealed in the newspapers and in affidavits. And, as everyone knows, erroneous information gets published and broadcast on television and radio all the time. And there were quite a few mistakes that made it "on the air" concerning this (JFK) case [see the video below].

Yeah, but what was the EXACT question that Frazier was asked?.... Was he asked: Is this person [Prayer Man] Lee Oswald? Or was he asked: Do you know who this person in the doorway is? That could make a big difference in the response you'd get from Buell Frazier.

Yes. (Slightly.) But it's going to take a LOT more than that Ochus Campbell contradiction to get me to believe that Lee Oswald was located in a storage room on the first floor at the time of JFK's death. For one thing, Campbell's story seems to change slightly again when you read the 11/23 Dallas Morning News. In that particular newspaper story, it's implied that it was NOT Campbell who actually saw Oswald in the "storage room", but it was Roy Truly and a policeman instead. The DMN says Campbell was running toward the Grassy Knoll at that time. So the story in the Dallas Morning News about the "storage room" doesn't match the New York Herald Tribune story at all. So I think there's some major conflation of the facts (plus some erroneous "facts") in BOTH of those newspaper accounts involving Mr. Ochus Campbell.

Of course Callaway needed to ask those questions. Why? Because Ted Callaway DID NOT SEE THE ACTUAL SHOOTING OF OFFICER J.D. TIPPIT WHEN IT WAS OCCURRING. Callaway saw only the aftermath. And he needed to confirm that the guy he did see (Oswald) was the ONLY shooter. How was Callaway supposed to know those things from a block away? Mental telepathy? Geesh, use your head, man. This is incredibly obvious stuff.