Larry Hancock

James may have additional info on his clearance but it should be pointed out that McDonald did have an ongoing relationship with CIA for some period because they were interested in his patented "Identikit" product. He was a full time law enforcement officer.

That relationship fell apart pretty quickly once he started writing books on JFK.

As I mentioned, a scan on the NARA site will produce a host of documents on McDonald and much can be learned even from the cover sheets and descriptions.

Alan, McDonald's second book went a great deal further than the first - in it he specifically identified Russia and certain senior Soviets as being behing the plot. He also discussed exactly how and where they recruited VP Johnson as part of the plot. McDonald provided documents to support that as well as cited specific source names.

All this detail may not have gotten much public attention but it got an immense amount of attention from the CIA, espcially because of his claims about his services to them and his contacts there.

Run a NARA search on he and his books and spend a while browsing what their internal memos reveal about his connections and relationship.

It would be a fascinating thing to know exactly who was feeding him his information and with what purpose. It has all the feel of....well a certain senior counter intelligence CIA officer comes to mind. If so it wouldn't have been his first such disinformation exercise...

-- Larry

Bill, the article was in one of those issues of the Chronicles which was published

online to subscribers but I don't know whether or not its generally accessable online.

I'm sure Larry would supply a copy if you contact him.

As far as my remark goes, certainly I would qualify that as being Larry's conclusion

after extensive reasearch and my personal judgement that he was right. One of the

problems I see in ever bringing any of the JFK conspiracy to some sort of conclusion

is that at some point one has to start focusing - if every lead remains a mystery

then one wonders on forever.

Of course in the absense of legal process, the matter becomes subjective and

personal. It looks to me like Larry did a good job of resolving the issue - leaving

a much bigger issue open, that being the apparent national security cover-up

dealing with AF1 and related communications immediately follwoing the assassination.

Just my opinion of course, Larry

Robert, Larry went on to conclude his research on this and published a great article

in the Lancer Chronicles detailing that work. I heartily recommend Larry's article.

Bottom line is its pretty clear that this indeed was a test call from the Silver Dollar

Emergency flying command center which was airborne that day.

The call has pretty well been cleared up.....on the other hand the reason behind

the apparent totaly rewrite of the aircrafts daily log for Nov. 22, especially as it

may relate to AF1 communications remains a much larger mystery and might

explain a good deal of the national security level communications that we don't

seem to see on the day of the President's assassination.

-- Larry

Indeed Robert and this particular piece actually represents the work of Anna Marie Kuhns-

Walko. Actually we can add a few observations to the incident now...

1) ZR/RIFLE whom everyone took to have ceased in 1962 can now be shown to have

been authorized and funded by Helms through 1963.

2) There is good reason to think that not only Roselli but at least one other US crime

associated asset was being operated under the project in 1963 - the meeting in

Florida included a participant traveling from Chicago.

3) It seems unlikely that so much time (and money) would be spent on the termination

of a ZR/RIFLE asset (ostensible reason for the trip) ...and of course as the Church

Committee was led to belive no such assets were to be from the US nor were ZR/FIFLE

contacts of any sort to be made in the U.S.

Just more indications of the degree to which compartimentalized "vest pockets" operations

were so much a part of how senior CIA officials operated.

Since this thread has floated up on the first page again I thought I should mention

the following - which I should have pointed out earlier.

William Law will be presenting a series of video interviews on Sunday

as part of the RFK session. Those of you familiar with William's

work on the autopsy witnesses and his book on that subject are

well aware that William does ground breaking work.

These interviews will be in the same vein and in terms of the RFK

assassination and investigation they are an absolute must.

William's work combined with other preperations that are underway

are going to spawn a whole new level of interest and investigation in this are...IMHO.

It's a bit early for me to be more specific than that but by the end of November

I hope there is going to be a serious revival of RFK study.

-- Larry

I just wanted to let everyone know that the schedule

and speaker list has recently been updated. You

will find the updated schedule at:

http://www.jfklancer.com/dallas06/schedule.html

This year we will be offering a full day of presentations on

the RFK assassination, the first time we have had an extended

program on RFK. I'd encourage anyone interested in that subject

to attend; it will be an in depth treatment and if you haven't

really studied the case it will be a quick way to get up to speed.

I'm hoping it will spur more researcher interest in a case that still

has a number of open leads and areas of inquiry.

-- Larry

Of course I second everything Rex said in his post and I'd just like to add a few items

for thought on how ironic (or implausable) things were in the 24 hours after Oswald

was taken into custody.

1. Hover knew that Oswald had apparently met with and possibly had multiple

contacts with Kostikov, thought to be a senior KGB officer in charge of covert

actions. Kostikov was taken seriously enough to be under constant daily

surveillance in Mexico. The information about Kostikov and Oswald had been shared

with a number of other security agencies including CIA. But ostensibly not with

Oswald's assigned office of responsiblity (Dallas) or Agent of responsiblity (Hosty).

In fact Hoover had a query memo from his HQ chief of security bringing up

concerns on this subject.

2. Hoover had files or information which led him to belive Oswald had been

in Cuba on multiple trips. Others may have had similar reports.

3. The CIA had files on telephone intercepts suggesting some special relationship

between the Cuban embassy and Oswald including the datum that the Cuban embassy

knew where to contact Oswald in MC.

........and yet we see no sign that the FBI, CIA or any other security agency

reacted to conduct a focused interview with Oswald on Mexico City, Kostikov, the Cubans etc

while Oswald was alive and in custody. Given the potential seriousness of the situation

at the height of the cold war why wasn't Oswald given the same treatment Duran was

or at least given a dose of babblejuice.

4. We now know the Soviets were worried about being blamed and that personnel

were sent out from their embassies to reassure people. Think about this for a moment,

if you are Soviet, know Kostikov and his business, know Oswald was in contact with

him......and worry that Oswald may say anything to save his rear. At what point to

you panic and decide you had better launch before the Americans do? Or at least get on

the Red phone and offer to turn over tapes of your own of his visit to the embassy

to clear yourself. Speculative, certainly. Impossible...think about it.

I just wanted to let everyone know that the schedule

and speaker list has recently been updated. You

will find the updated schedule at:

http://www.jfklancer.com/dallas06/schedule.html

This year we will be offering a full day of presentations on

the RFK assassination, the first time we have had an extended

program on RFK. I'd encourage anyone interested in that subject

to attend; it will be an in depth treatment and if you haven't

really studied the case it will be a quick way to get up to speed.

I'm hoping it will spur more researcher interest in a case that still

has a number of open leads and areas of inquiry.

-- Larry

Bill, all the documents are still un-released. All we can see comes

from cover sheets that allow us to track the action that the HSCA

took to investigate it. The HSCA's own internal memoranda as well

as the USAF investigation documents are still classified and unreleased -

as are almost all other NSA related JFK documents.

Do you have a solid source for that info on Jenkins, I've come across it

in books before but never with an actual source that proved he was

working in a job where he would have been doing intercepts or handling

similar traffic?

-- Larry

Hi Bill, as you know these pre-assassination leaks are a significant part of my

work and I will be going into more detail on some of them plus adding a couple

in the second edition.

On Dinkin, I'm pretty sure that newspaper thing is a story line that he was forced

into after his hospitalization and "recoverery".....another one of those instances

of just agreeing to something that sounds nuts to be let back on the street.

The hard part about Dinkin is that many folks have written about him but

without providing hard core documentation on his military service. If we had

some solid source on exactly where he was stationed, what unit and what

his job description was we might be able to get somewhere....

My wild guess is that Dinkin may have picked up the same intercept that

we are tracking in the Kirknewton situation....but that's pure speculation

until we know for sure what his day job was in the fall of 1963.

-- Larry

Hi Larry,

I just reviewed the Kirknewton docs that Wim provided and your analysis and agree that the radio intercept base at Kirknewton, Scotland would jive with what Dinkin was doing. Dinkin was Army Security Agency and Kirknewton vets are Air Force, I believe.

Were any Kirknewton docs released by the Air Force Inteligence Agency under ARRB?

Will add Elizeabeth Cole and Kirknewton to the list.

BK

Hi Bill, as you know these pre-assassination leaks are a significant part of my

work and I will be going into more detail on some of them plus adding a couple

in the second edition.

On Dinkin, I'm pretty sure that newspaper thing is a story line that he was forced

into after his hospitalization and "recoverery".....another one of those instances

of just agreeing to something that sounds nuts to be let back on the street.

The hard part about Dinkin is that many folks have written about him but

without providing hard core documentation on his military service. If we had

some solid source on exactly where he was stationed, what unit and what

his job description was we might be able to get somewhere....

My wild guess is that Dinkin may have picked up the same intercept that

we are tracking in the Kirknewton situation....but that's pure speculation

until we know for sure what his day job was in the fall of 1963.

-- Larry

I hear you on Eugene Dinken, Greg.

That is a very confusing case, but I think he's one of the few who have survived.

Also adding, Richard Case Nagel and Anton Erdinger to the list.

Bk

I hate to keep doing this to you Francesca but you are going to find a good deal about

the Belle Chase camp in the second edition. It was officially part of the BOP prep and

even shows up on the organization charts for that effort. There seems to have been

considerable effort to prevent local law enforcement and media from investigating

what might have been going on there (including demolitions training).

Good reason to suspect that Phillips was aware of it and indeed he wrote a wrap up

memo on it in response to an HSCA inquiry.

Probably the most suspicious part of it may be the part it played in preparing Nino

Diaz mission folks and the fact that it appears to have been a partial cover for

at least some of the folks who were added to the OP40 roster shortly before

the BOP landings.

The good news is that it is relatively well documented - it was even picked up as

a training camp by the Miami papers prior to the invastion.

-- Larry

Hi Mike, well you have probably seen Sherry's post on the book by now so you know

we are close....not exactly on schedule since we would have liked to have had it

out six months ago. However going to commercial, hard cover class plus growing

the book significantly has proven to be quite a bit of work. We have taken extreme

pains with proofing and fact checking (not that it will be perfect of course), with indexing

and with an expansion of the name checking plus ten appendices.

However an equal amount of work is going to have to go into the new WEB site as well.

It will contain all the earlier exhibits plus a good number of new documents which

support the appendices....some of them are going to be very new to most researchers.

Their will be an extensive photo gallery on the WEB site that is in addition to

the photos in the book and we will also have a set of social diagrams and charts.....photos

and charts courtesy of some fine work from Australian researchers who will receive

my thanks in the book.

So....I think that it will have been worth the wait, hopefully you all will as well. And I

will definitely be around for a questions and dialog once it gets into circulation.

-- Larry

Hello Larry,

Is everything still on schedule? I can't remember the last time I so eagerly looked forward to publication of a book. Thanks and best wishes.

Mike Hogan

John, I'm not sure whether I faced it or intentionally avoided it. One of my starting

assumptions was that anyone who willingly volunteered (at this late date) to come forward

and disclose "new" information about the JFK assassination had to be met with some skepticism.

One exception to that in which my first edition was to use Noel Twyman's interview

with Roy Hargraves. That was a mixed bag of course as Hargraves had been identified

as a possible suspect to the FBI immediately following the assassination.

I feel more comfortable with individuals who either never intended their information

to be disclosed or with those who initially offered it to legal or government representatives

under strict understanding of confidentiality. Of course some of those folks did later

become visible under various record disclosure acts but that was not voluntary

on their part. I also tend to be more interested in individuals who told one

story for a long period of time and then privately took another stance shortly

before their deaths, that seems a little more "real" to me.

One exception occurs to me, I think a number of folks could still come forward with

knowledge of Lee Oswald that contradicts the official story of his activities and

contacts. These would be people who were directly at risk if they had volunteered

such information in 1963/1964. This includes FBI, CIA and Navy/Marine personnel.

The same thing could apply to those involved in the legally ordered cover-up, but not

the conspiracy itself.

-- Larry

I think Henry Hurt is an honest man and a really excellent writer. I think his book is an excellent introduction to the case, but of course there is one big caveat: Hurt was suckered by Easterling's phoney story, which he was foolish enough to pay for. In that sense Easterling is a red herring. Hurt does warn his readers that Easterling is a very tainted witness, yet his own interpretation of some key issues in the case is clearly colored by what he "learned" from Easterling.

This has happened to several people writing books about JFK. For example, would we see the Joan Mellen book differently if Gerry Hemming had not introduced her to Angelo Murgado? I wonder if Larry Hancock has had to face this problem?

Now James, let's not think of it as "underhanded", let's think of it as "plausably

deniable".

And anyway, its just a matter of getting a jump on the bad guys....its not like

they would not do it eventually, its just "forward leaning" to do it first and then

blame them in advance. Much more efficient, saves everyone time.

-- Larry

Thanks, Larry.

BTW, I am absolutely shocked that anyone connected to the Intelligence services would be involved with something underhanded.

James

James, I'm pretty sure the context of the remark is Watergate. As a former supervisor

for Barker, Morales was asks his thoughts on him and the risk of his opening up.

I think I have a memo on this quoting Morales as saying Barker could never keep his

mouth shut on anything and could not be expected not to expose anything he knew.

-- Larry

Thanks for posting that document, Steve.

The piece from 1972 is interesting. "David Morales talking about Barker says Barker will tell authorities everything he knows."

I would love to know the context of that.

Also, Greg, Rauland was the tube and research facility of Zenith Radio Corp., who amongst other things built and supplied the U.S Coast Guard with their transceivers.

James

James, they certainly never came up with a Bernardo Morales who was known to the folks

at the radio station, either their office in Miami or the actual off shore station. You will

find some documents on this in the exhibits for Chapter 7 - an HSCA memo and a

Secret Service memo.

They did eventually develop some names for investigation but none of them went anywhere

at all....but it was taken very seriously and the Secret Service spent seven or eight

months on it.

However, this was not the only element of the threat - an informant in (amazingly)

Guatemala first surfaced a rumor that Castro was sponsoring an effort to kill JFK -

the informant reported a detailed dialog between Castro agents. Of course this one

went nowhere to.

But when you combine Guatemala with radio stations somehow the name David

Phillips does come to mine....especially when you add in anti-Castro propaganda.

But would old David go so far as to hoax American agencies?

-- tongue forcefully in cheek... Larry

Yep, I cover that one at some great length in my book...the FBI actually spent an immense

amount of time investigating the letter and purported plot, including the names that turned

up in the thing. Lots and lots of reports on this. It turned out to be totally nebulous

and its interesting to speculate who might have had the appropriate addresses and

names for free Cuba radio staions (one name leaps to mind) and who may have been

involved in ongoing anti-Cuba/Castro propaganda efforts.

-- Larry

It is a valid name and it is also valid in terms of "Mexicano".

Having said that, it doesn't seem to lead anywhere I can follow but James

may have more on it than I could develop.

The story of how Garrison got involved with de Torres in the first place seems

to be pretty complex but aside from leading him in circles de Torres remarks

to the media seem to be part of what led Garrison into going to the press well

before he was prepared. And of course once Garrison was known to be investigating

Cuban exiles in Miami as well as New Orleans.....wasn't likely he was going

to get much except possibly anonymous leads from that point on.

One caution Francesca, and I suspect James will agree...

Following names and leads introduced by de Torres will take you in lots of circles. You will

find some real names for sure but the probablity is good that many of them are

diversions and time wasters. Something that Garrison learned way to late. As a matter

of fact Garrison clearly came to regret having so much of his Cuban investigations

neutralized in that fashion.

-- Larry

Thanks for the warning Larry, good point. Yes I remeber DeTorres leading Garrison in circles. I still find it hard to believe sometimes that he actually took him on as an investigator at one point. Then again I think Garrison was too trusting at times and so trusted the wrong people.

Does your research lead you to think that Francisco Rodriguez Tamayo (why is it cubans always have three names?!) is a valid name as regards connections to the assassination?

One caution Francesca, and I suspect James will agree...

Following names and leads introduced by de Torres will take you in lots of circles. You will

find some real names for sure but the probablity is good that many of them are

diversions and time wasters. Something that Garrison learned way to late. As a matter

of fact Garrison clearly came to regret having so much of his Cuban investigations

neutralized in that fashion.

-- Larry

I found a memo in the HSCA segragated collection which says that a man thought to be 'El Mexicano' was the head of the training camp at Lake Ponchartrain and also accompanied LHO to Mexico City.

Does anyone know who this might be? (Francesca Akhtar)

Hi Francesca,

I would suggest researching a guy named Francisco Rodriguez Tamayo.

Cheers,

James

And as usual it would be bad to bet against James...

I can verify from a number of sources that it's Barker.

Also, I will be including as many crypts as possible in the index of the second

edition of my book and can hopefully make reading CIA documents of the

period a lot less painful.

Hi John, thanks for asking about the book. It is indeed very close now, close enough so

that my work is finished and even the master name list for the index has been turned

over to JFK Lancer. It should be in the first galley stage in July and depending on how

many printing changes are required from that we will either have it available by

the end of July or in August. A second spin at the printers in July would simply add two more

weeks.

That's good news and has freed me up to work on the November conference -

and to do some RFK work that I had wanted to do for some time. We will be offering

a full day of presentations on the RFK assassination during the conference this year.

I think I've mentioned before that the second edition will be hardcover and it will

be supported by a web site which will contain the exhibit documents and an

expanded photograph section.

....so, its very close now and hopefully readers and researchers will find it worth the

wait.

Robert, yes the copy about the little station wagons was from me. In answer to

your question, I do recall the Bowen article (simply because not long after I started in

this I bought back issues of most of the publications and then subscribed to what

was still being published). The problem with that is that there were so many articles

written based on partial information that it can lead you in circles forever, much of what

was mysterious at the time isn't now and many leads that were fascinating then are less so

now. An example is:

"The third such person was Fred Lee Crisman, Jr. In 1969, New Orleans Attorney General Jim Garrison received a couple of anonymous letters implicating Crisman in the Kennedy assassination. One of the letters said that one of Crisman's co-conspirators in stealing money from the CIA was a person named Martin Grassi."

....having spent a couple of years in company with Glen Cresey investigating Crisman I can

give you a pretty good opinion that he was such a "mis" lead (including an interview with

his school principal who placed him in class on Nov. 22 and had the records to prove it...a man

who really didn't like Crisman at all and would have been happy to dump on him).

"Subsequently, a Southwest Texas lawyer using the pseudonym William Torbitt released a manuscript called Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal, which provides further information about Crisman and Osborne/Bowen. According to Torbitt, local US customs officials he knew had discovered from their own sources in the early 1950s that Bowen's Mexican orphanage was really a training school for contract killers, who were occasionally employed by FBI Chief, J. Edgar Hoover. Torbitt also discovered that Crisman worked with Osborne/Bowen and sometimes even used the alias John Bowen. (unpublished, undated manuscript, available at the Assassinations Archive in Washington DC, ch 6)"

...the same goes with using the Torbett document as an authoritative source, its such a wonderful

mis of mis and disinformation, extremely well done by whever was feeding the info. If we really

understood that it would teach us a great more about the nature the cover-up than what is in

the document itself. But I still have the notebooks with all the notes, diagrams and things to do

I made when wading through it....some things just stay with us forever.

.....at least those are my thoughts... Larry

For the sake of accuracy, this "Nash Rambler" thing is bugging me. As of May 1, 1954, Nash-Kelvinator Corp. and the Hudson Motor Car Co. merged and became American Motors Corp.[AMC]. For the 1955 and 1956 model years, Ramblers were sold with both Hudson and Nash insignias, but after the 1956 models, there were NO "Nash Ramblers," as Rambler was marketed by AMC as a separate brand. After the 1957 model year, BOTH the Hudson and Nash names were retired by AMC, and the products were strictly "Rambler". So any identification of a post-1956 Rambler as a "Nash Rambler" is in error. Folks persisted in referring to "Nash Ramblers," but after 1956, there simply was no such car produced.

And, FWIW, the Rambler name that Nash revived in 1950 was retired by AMC after the 1969 model year.

To Antti, Greg and Mark: My purpose in posting this article was primarily in feeling out the story, as it is new to me (sadly, whether credible or not) and I was only aware of it due to the fact that it was only recently that maryferrel.org added the Dealey Plaza Echo, to it's website.

Mark, I posted this article link without a great deal of time at my disposal, and erred in using 'Nash and Rambler' in the same sentence.

The reference was to the following: "...as a side note on Ramblers, in some of my work on Cuban gun running both to Castro and post-revolution I turned up an interesting comment that little Ramber station wagons were a vehicle of choice in carting moderate loads of weapons from sources in the U.S. to points where they could be taken by small boats into Cuba. Safer than putting them all in one big shipment.

Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised to see several in the DP area."

I believe the above was posted by Larry Hancock, on a recent thread, and I apologize for not being certain.

Greg, as for your insight's, I heartily agree to why you have reservations about the story, it is one of the pitfalls of individuals coming forward after a delay. For what it's worth, I believe the contributions on the Forum from the land 'down under' are truly laudatory. I have an immense amount of respect for the Australian JFK researchers.

To get back to the thread, I have similar feelings about the story that Greg, does. While Antti brings up a good point in desiring the author to contact the Paines, I will have to keep digging, but I do intend to resolve whether this story is valid or some type of disinformation.

Is anyone familiar with Mike Sylvester's article 'The Name John Bowen in the Kennedy Assassination?

Here is a Link to the story.

http://www.bvalphaserver.com/convert.php?f...rren/bowen.html

It seems to Steve, he did stay in Dallas for some time and then

moved to Puerto Rico...can't tie down a definite date but it seems

a pretty good fit.

-- Larry

Steve, there are a few other names that come up in regard

to the weapons shopping…I cover that in obnoxious detail

in my book in the section on Ellsworth, Masen, Nonte et. al.

The reference documents are all provided as exhibits.

However there is good reason to suspect that there never was

any weapons cache or necessarily even the money to pay for

them if they had been located.

As far as a list goes, there are a variety of FBI documents

which essentially provide an index to various organizations

and reports on Dallas exiles and exile organizations – but

none of the actual data documents themselves. The FBI

did not volunteer actual data to the WC or the HSCA and

apparently nobody ever asked for any details.

Larry,

They never

attempted to construct a list of actual residents or visitors.

About the only name I've run across is a guy named George F. Parrel.

SS Rowley Memorandum of 4/24/64 CD 853

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...250&relPageId=2

1/16/64 Frank Ellsworth was interviewed about Orcarberro.

Ellsworth had been working undercover gathering evidence against John Thomas Masen.

Masen told Ellsworth that Orcarberro had been trying to buy guns and bazookas from Masen.

Masen told Ellsworth that Rodriguez and George F. Parrel were leaders of the local DRE and also members of Alpha-66

Masen told Ellsworth that George Parrel, an associate of Orcarberro, had also been trying to buy guns from him.

They had made purchases from him and that they presently have a large cache of arms located somewhere in Dallas.

Parrel was a student at Dallas City College.

Agent Ed Coyle was also contacted about Orcarberro.

Steve Thomas

Steve, there are a few other names that come up in regard

to the weapons shopping…I cover that in obnoxious detail

in my book in the section on Ellsworth, Masen, Nonte et. al.

The reference documents are all provided as exhibits.

However there is good reason to suspect that there never was

any weapons cache or necessarily even the money to pay for

them if they had been located.

As far as a list goes, there are a variety of FBI documents

which essentially provide an index to various organizations

and reports on Dallas exiles and exile organizations – but

none of the actual data documents themselves. The FBI

did not volunteer actual data to the WC or the HSCA and

apparently nobody ever asked for any details.

Larry,

They never

attempted to construct a list of actual residents or visitors.

About the only name I've run across is a guy named George F. Parrel.

SS Rowley Memorandum of 4/24/64 CD 853

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...250&relPageId=2

1/16/64 Frank Ellsworth was interviewed about Orcarberro.

Ellsworth had been working undercover gathering evidence against John Thomas Masen.

Masen told Ellsworth that Orcarberro had been trying to buy guns and bazookas from Masen.

Masen told Ellsworth that Rodriguez and George F. Parrel were leaders of the local DRE and also members of Alpha-66

Masen told Ellsworth that George Parrel, an associate of Orcarberro, had also been trying to buy guns from him.

They had made purchases from him and that they presently have a large cache of arms located somewhere in Dallas.

Parrel was a student at Dallas City College.

Agent Ed Coyle was also contacted about Orcarberro.

Steve Thomas