Paul Brancato

interesting Tommy.

Larry - I guess you are saying that the MI/FBI bust which short circuited Ellsworth's own operation (in which he was an actor) was not suspicious. Did that bust have the effect of limiting damage to Military covert operations, such as Alpha 66? The DRE was CIA if I understand this right. The line blurs so often between CIA, FBI, and military Intel that I'm finding it hard to believe there was much separation. This goes as well for local DPD and local military Intel reserves. It was the DPD that busted the Terrell armory theft that Ellsworth was investigating. If there is so much sharing between DPD, FBI, and MI and reserve MI, why is the ATF left out? And I guess the main question is what was the result of the bust? Was it in fact a theft, or was that some cover? And what is the connection between gun dealer and Oswald lookalike Masen and US intelligence? He was definitely connected to the Minutemen and JBS. Another blurring of lines?

Larry - I did read your section on Ellsworth. I think that his sting was deliberately interrupted by DPD because Ellsworth was getting close to an operation that military intelligence wanted to keep under wraps. Didn't you point out the possible connections to Ruby? I resurrected this thread for Steve Thomas, looking at all the retired colonels. I'm glad you posted - I would have mentioned SWHT but was still looking for another version that had more detail that I read somewhere. It may have been from Ellsworth himself. I know he later told the HSCA that he attributed the DPD bust to lack of info sharing. But since Hosty, who along with MI Ed Coyne had met with Ellsworth the morning of the assassination, later reported that Ellsworth was at Dealey Plaza when the shots were fired, on the grassy knoll pretending to be SS, I think there was deliberate tension created for some reason. I've always thought the Ellsworth story worthy of a close look because of its intersection with Masen and his far right connections to alpha 66. Oswald's presence at a meeting in the Alpha 66 safehouse was not looked at by the WC. Peter Dale Scott suspects Oswald was acting as an informant for one or more military branches. I find this surmise believable.

Rachel Maddow on MSNBC has leapt on this story tonight. I'm watching it now. 

Steve - I started a new thread because I couldn't figure out how to insert it on this one. Hope it's of some interest.

Steve - This thread is not about Ellsworth, but full of interesting info.

I've done some searching on Ellsworth and haven't found  the most complete version yet. I'll be posting something soon.

On 2/6/2011 at 11:30 PM, William Kelly said:

The things I like the most about Jones and his testimony is his straight forward manner, his explaination of their file system and standard operating procedures, - all of which checks out as far as I can tell, and his conclusions regarding Oswald - he was a potential security risk and/or source/informant, based on his defection and residency in Russia, and that Oswald couldn't have pulled off the assassination alone.

There's no discussion at all as to whether Oswald was a psycho, deranged or lone nut, but instead, they assume that Oswald, based on his military file that has since been destroyed, but which Jones read, Oswald fit an operational profile that should have rated him an official debriefing, and the attention of security agencies, and not because he was crazy.

The filing system that Jones describes is apparently the same system that was used by the Secret Service Protective Research Section (as described by G. Blaine in TKD) and by Win Scott at the Mexico City CIA HQ and by Mary Ferrell when she began her assassination files -

1) Index Card with name - directs to Personality File - Lee Harvey Oswald

2) Index Card with alias - directs to Personality File - A. J. Hidel, O.H, Lee, to Lee Harvey Oswald

3) Personality File on Subject - Lee Harvey Oswald

4) Incident File - Assassination of President Kennedy

5) Agents reports from the field to Region 2 Commander

6) After Action Report from 112 Group Commander/Ops/Intel Officer

As Mary Ferrell and her friend also did, when an incident occurs that requires an after action report, such as the Kennedy assassination, another file would be started, a chronology file, that puts everything in a sequencial order.

Jones is kind of perplexed by the fact that Oswald's personality file as well as the other files have been destroyed, as he wanted to be able to refer to the after action report he says that he prepared on the activities of the 112th in Dallas.

While Jones contradicts the alledged "stand down" order that Fletcher Prouty first brought up that Prouty says he obtained from an enlisted man with the 112th who called him on the phone.

Although Jones says that he had eight to twelve guys in Dallas, in plain clothes, working with SS, there's no record of them among the SS files, and two of the men he mentions - Powell and Coyle, both denied they were on security that day, Powell saying he was off duty and Coyle says he was working on the gun heists with Hosty and Ellsworth, not security.

So Fletcher is debunked by Jones, and then rehabilitated by Larry Hancock (thanks Larry).

Fletcher also mentions another Colonel as the ultimate source of the "Stand Down" order - Col. Reich - which would be Col. Rudolph Reich, who says that his unit never had any security duties, responsiblities or training. That just wasn't there job.

Colonels are interesting people. They're go-to guys, who are supposed to get the jobs they are assigned done, and done right.

And there's certainly enough Colonels in the 112th Intel Group, Region 2 - Lt. Col. Roy Pate, Dept. Lt. Col. Edgar Boyd, Col. Willard W. Mize, Lt. Col. Stanley Green were others, besides Col. Robert E. Jones and Col. Rudolph Reich.

I too would like to know if Jones is dead or alive, and if dead, can we get an obit for him?

I don't think this is our guy. He's at the Pentagon in early sixties.

ttp://www.fortcampbell.com/forums/showthread.php?t=505

 

But I think this might be him:

www.rt66.com/~ korteng/SmallArms/31RCT-PrincipalOfficers.htm

And / or

http://www.vineland.org/history/vinvet/K.I.A.%20veterans/rjones.jpg

And then there's the after action report on the Dealey Plaza operation that should read like this:

http://www.31stinfan...hosin/Jones.pdf

Texas will be interesting to watch. It would make a huge difference.

Flynn has resigned

Steve - very informative article. It reminds me of the military intelligence role in the 1968 Democratic convention. It's long been speculated at least, perhaps known, that the riots were in part fomented by plainclothes intelligence operatives. Just last week we had a situation in Berkeley that echoes this, when 150 or so black clad and hooded 'anarchists' disrupted a peaceful protest at the university. Similar things happened here during the Occupy movement. No less a personage than Robert Reich, former Labor secretary and professor at UC Berkeley has called this what it is - an undercover police action designed to discredit peaceful protest. We never seem to find out who these undercover agent provocateurs are, but my hunch is they are not attached to municipal police forces. I know this is a digression from the 'colonels'. 

Steve - have you looked at ATF agent Ellsworth's aborted investigation of the theft of munitions from the San Antonio army base? Sorry, don't remember the particulars except that it seemed to me that Ellsworth was stymied in his investigation. 

Steve - have you taken a close look at ATF agent Frank Ellsworth and his investigation of the 'theft' of arms from the military and sale to Cuban exiles? 

Peter Dale Scott is still as far as I know a professor at UC Cal in Berkeley. I met him once and interviewed him when I was working on the trading cards. He was very forthcoming, and he is a deep thinker and researcher. He may know much more than he can write about, or have really good suggestions where to look.

Steve - You are like a voice crying in the wilderness. I know you keep hoping that someone with something other than support would respond. Alas...this avenue of research has been the least explored, but so important. The resistance to it, the lack of reliable information, the misdirections, all point to the value of your attempts, in my opinion.

Funny - I've been watching Battle of Algiers, which TCM broadcast a few weeks ago. It is amazing how relevant it is today. I'm sure you have read The Devil's Chessboard, where David Talbot takes a look at the connections between the attempt on DeGaulle by those generals, and the statements of DeGaulle afterwards. 

The authors who tried to crack this include Peter Dale Scott of course, and for whatever one thinks of him, Daniel Sheehan. Mae Brussell did a lot of digging around too. Clearly when one looks at the 'colonels' one finds so many connections to the radical right, and the Nazis. I think JFK knew this. The connections that appear to be missing are between the 'colonels' and the Generals. Do you find any connections to Edwin Walker? Or the Joint Chiefs? 

I think people shy away from the Nazi connection because they think of it as somehow about Hitler. We defeated Hitler and the German armed forces. But we never dismantled the corporate structures. How many CIA persons of interest were in post war Germany learning the ropes? Shackley, Harvey, many others. What connection did they have to Gehlen and Dulles? I've read they Shackley was the interpreter. 

I don't know where these speculations of mine go other than in a thread like this. 

Mr. Speer - Well done. Do you think we will live to see this unjust electoral system abolished? I understand that Democratically controlled states, some 14 of them I think, have passed laws committing their electors to vote for the winner of the US popular vote regardless of how their state voted. It would seem that the only way to move this process forward, or indeed to get rid of the electoral college altogether, is for Democrats to win the state houses that Republicans, by design and planning, have taken over. It will take many election cycles and lots of dedication and money. Complicating this even further is Jefferson Beauregard Sessions becoming Attorney General. He is a well known proponent of voter suppression. And with so many state houses in Republican hands it's likely that the vote will be more suppressed in the future than it is already now. I often wonder if we might be living in a far different country had Lincoln lived long enough to see Reconstruction through. 

White people here, the ones that fear multiculturalism, will apparently stoop very low to deny the vote to people of color. 

And now we have an even worse problem, and one that no amount of protest or petitions can change. The only real possible roadblock to permanent fascism here are the Republicans in Congress, and the courts. I'm not optimistic. 

Lance -.when you said gutting of public education and diminishing the EPA ( like allowing coal companies to dump their waste in rivers, and open up drilling and mining on 30 national parks) were ok by you, and Steve Bannon in the WH doesn't worry you, you lost me completely. Using the word lemming to describe me bothers me much less, especially as it makes your view of the so called left as being willing to follow their leaders off a cliff (lemmings) patently absurd. All of this makes your views on the JFK assassination worthless to me. I will not be engaging with you any longer here.

Cliff - don't you love it when the right accuses the left of intolerance? The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are out the window in the face of religious fundamentalism. And since their beliefs are based on Faith, there is no arguing. 

Kirk - you were writing your response at the same time as I was. I agree with your central question - I'll paraphrase - What's your game Lance? Why are you here?

Very lawyerly Lance, as you so state. I'd love for you to defend the resurrection of Jesus in a court of law. Obviously you are willing to make a leap of faith without evidence. You do believe that faith trumps good works? Wouldn't want to put words in your mouth. I'm disappointed that someone with your obvious intelligence could support Trump's appointments, or the single bullet theory.

You have no idea whether I'm a lemming, by your definition. 

Where's my 'like' button? Thanks Cliff.

Lance - what about the gutting of public education? How about the EPA? Like having Bannon in the White House?

I'm waiting for people like you who voted for Trump to admit they regret it.

Is your definition of me as a 'lemming' referring to how I vote? Or do you view anyone who votes Democratic as a lemming leftist? Do you view anyone who has looked at the evidence, including the direct and simple example that Cliff bings up (every time he sees an opening) as lemmings? Quite seriously, no one who has studied the evidence believes that Oswald killed JFK. Unfortunately for you, once that is obvious there is no other place to go but conspiracy. As you say, the MIC were rewarded that day. If you see this, and you read the evidence of Oswald's innocence, which abounds, how can you weigh Oswald's supposed desire for fame against such a preponderance of evidence of conspiracy such as motive, means, and opportunity and come out in favor of the WC findings? Do yourself a favor, a big one, and read something. How about staring with Meagher's Accessories After the Fact? Try Talbot's the Devil's Chessboard and add it up. Alan Dulles, J Edgar Hoover - are they to be trusted to find the truth? 

What confuses me about you is your statements in favor of a similar political world view as many of us, which somehow gets waylaid by illogic combined with, or influenced by moralistic attitudes no doubt stemming from your religious beliefs.  I wouldn't bother to respond at all if I didn't sense some intelligence. But I also sense extreme rigidity. I don't believe you slowly came to a conclusion about Oswald. That's where your statements fail. It's a tell. No one looking honestly at the evidence can reasonably come to the conclusion you espouse slowly. Evidence against your point of view has mounted steadily for over 50 years. I don't believe you've read any of it. 

I didn't know this. Thanks for posting. 

Great post Chuck. I'm a NY native but I've been in California since 1969, so I've done much more listening to KPFA. They have an incredible archive as well. Funny, the one thing that has bothered me over the years is Pacifica, and KPFA also - can't speak to what the other affiliates do - have what seems to me to be a Chomsky-like approach to the JFK assassination, which is that somehow it didn't really matter because JFK was no leftie, but rather just another Cold warrior. The only recent exception to this blackout recently was on a local KPFA show called Guns and Butter, when the producer of that show did at least two lengthy interviews with, of all people, Judyth Vary Baker. I don't really understand this blind spot. Even my Communist dad figured out that JFK's death mattered, mattered a lot. Same with RFK. They do get the MLK assassination, and broadcast speeches of his from their considerable archives at least once a year on MLK day.

its really hard to imagine that KPFA would have given Mae Brussell air time. I doubt they did. You are right that she was the one who figured out the connection between Dulles, Nazis, and JFK. 

That seems like a real shame. Has anyone tried to solve this problem?

Great idea. But - will not happen because suppressing the vote keeps the right in the game, and making it hard to vote is at the core of that strategy. 

As I was writing this, I watched Elizabeth Warren, who was reading a letter from Coretta Scott King from 1986 in opposition to Jeffrey Beauregard Sessions of Alabama when he was nominated for a federal judgeship, get shut down by Mitch McConnell during discussion about Sessions current nomination as AG. That speaks for itself doesn't it? That's the country we live in, and it puts the Wall and the Muslim ban in its proper context. 

Fred Korth is a person of interest. Peter Dale Scott suggested as much early on.

Proving my point

I know - it's amazing.

Michael - The article you posted suggests that IB Hale, the dad, who was chairman of General Dynamics, was behind the break-in of Exner's pad by his sons because he was trying (successfully according to Hersh) to blackmail RFK into helping GD get a defense contract. This would appear to have nothing to do with Monroe's death two days later. 

Yes, welcome Barry. Are you saying that Oswald appeared in the same yearbook as a sophomore, along with the Hale brothers?

To answer that last response, I don't give a hoot. I'm not a fan of either Clinton. She should blame herself, on that we can agree. But there is plenty of other blame, and ignoring it makes you look ill informed.