Paul Brancato

No proof, not even close, that LHO was involved in a plot to kill Castro. You cannot state that as fact and be taken seriously.

Duh

In what way does seeing JFK's civil rights program as central to his assassination absolve the CIA or FBI or anyone else? Absurd. Hoover? The guy made MLK the object of his racist hatred. And as you well know Paul, anti-communism was used to justify all manner of racism, it was the modus operandi of the white racist movement trying to hide their actual motivations. The notion that guys like Hoover and Dulles were not far right is absurd. There was no ideological difference between Edwin Walker and the Joint Chiefs. You miss the forest for the trees.

Last night's debate convinced me, as a California resident, to vote for Stein. If the Green Party gets 5% nationally it is a game changer for them. Choosing between fascism and global militarism is no choice at all.

Complicated. Wonder why Trejo has so much faith in this?

Jim - what circus in 2013 are you referring to?

Chris - Do you think either Nosenko or Golitsyn were real defectors?

Yes Tulsi Gabbard showed courage and is very impressive.

Didn't Obama in 2013 put off a document release until 2017 at the request of Intelligence agencies?

Dear Tommy - Maybe that made Nosenko more appealing - because it was the truth. I'm more interested in why Angleton, who showed at best really poor judgement in ferreting out moles, was so convinced that Nosenko was a plant. That to me is the best proof that Nosenko was the real deal.

Wasn't it shown later that Kostikov was not an assassin or in charge of assassins, and that Angleton had deliberately placed that disinfo to mislead Hoover, and that Morales, or someone impersonating Oswald, used this disinfo without realizing it wasn't true?

You mean the E Howard Hunt confession.

I think they are both liars, so having them debate as if they are THE two sides of this 'puzzle' is propaganda at its most pernicious.

Well, the truth did not have to be withheld to protect the far right as far as you are capable of defining it. But it did have to be withheld to protect the actual, non bubble world Right Wing. You artificially limit the scope of who JFK's enemies were and what they were capable of and who they were truly aligned with. You mention Seven Days in May and then conflate that idea, that JFK was worried about his own generals, with Edwin Walker, and don't even give a glance in the direction of LeMay and Lemnitzer. It's a fantasy to think that Allen Dulles, J Edgar Hoover and others were heroes who saved us from Civil War.

But - doesn't the current president, whoever that is, have the right to assert their own authority over GHWB? I believe so. Anyone know otherwise?

The public is being gradually dumbed down, and it all becomes self fulfilling prophecy when the 'public' prefers entertainment to news, and media companies compete for their attention rather than ours. The millions of educated people have virtually nothing to watch, and little to read or listen to which informs them. I think the situation is very different now than in the '60's, but also agree that we are still marginalized whenever it becomes necessary to do so. That's why I personally think that Clinton will accede to the demands of the Intelligence community if they object to some of the document release, and the mainstream media will barely cover it.

Like Jim I think Nosenko was for real, and that is a subject I spent a great deal of time on at one point. Deryabin opinions on him, and on Marina, seem calculated to feed the flames of CIA paranoia.

Agree with Chris and David on the U2. It had the effect of killing the Paris summit, a result that might have been desirable to hard liners on both sides. If info Oswald provided helped the Russians to bring down the U2, does the rest of his Russian sojourn and easy re-entry into the U.S. make sense? Could Oswald be both part of a false defector program and part of a CIA operation to scuttle peace talks?

Good one Tom.

There was more to unite the CIA and KGB than to divide them. Not trying to put words in your mouth, just my way of reading this.

Could this be a better way to view the friendship between Angleton and Philby?

So who was DeM meeting in Houston?

Chris - you ask good questions.

What would the CIA do? Well, who is the CIA? You mean Angleton?

Who is Marina? How can we answer without context?

I think it's possiblie she was turned. its also possible, despite the probability that she met Webster, that she was no agent at all.

But I have to ask - where is this line of questioning headed? A possible scenario -

Oswald defects. Maybe he is part of a larger ONI operation. But if so he is a bit player. He lives in the ussr for a few years and takes detailed notes, helpful perhaps to someone back home, but not major espionage. He falls in love. The object of his affection had been placed there by Soviet Intel. They marry and get serious (enough to have two children eventually), and then decide they want to leave the ussr. They are allowed to leave because it's no big deal, nothing major happening, and Marina is still in place if needed, though not given an assignment upon leaving. LHO is allowed entry into the US with his Soviet wife because he is a citizen. He is debriefed but not held under suspicion.

Now what? They meet the 'Russian' community in Dallas, and DeMohrenschildt introduces himself into their lives, a response to Oswald's debriefing. It's the next 6-12 months that get interesting. Up until this point it all looks like low level Cold War spy games to me. The only caveat to this is the possibility that the U2 was brought down because of info Oswald shared with the Soviets. That's a can of worms, or a worm hole. But assuming that the U2 downing was just coincidence, DeM entry into their lives seems like an escalation, because this leads to New Orleans where LHO engages in actions with people that clearly put him on the spy map.

Pretty soon we will have the Two Marina theory..

Chris - thanks for the summary. I read the 29 questions.

Dear Tommy - the Kennedy family sent an emissary to the Soviet Union assuring them that they did not think the Soviets had anything to do with the assassination. I don't either. Do you?

I read the wiki article on Deryabin. Have you seen it? I'm wondering, because if it's accurate it's hard for me to see Deryabin as the real deal.

If Marina was a spy, is she still? What was she spying on? Oswald?

Nosenko was a spy or the real deal?

Philby

Well, many of you are on this Marina was KGB bandwagon. Could one of you put that in practical terms? As in, if she was, what was she up to? What was KGB up to? Who is Marina now?

Tommy - in answer to your specific question about whether I would believe Deryabin if he said different things than he did? No. Apparently Angleton is no mystery to any of you either. Chris says Angleton's files would have been destroyed anyway. Is that really the point? Angleton had some 'splainin' to do about Philbin and he did the opposite.

I don't believe, as all of you apparently do, that KGB and CIA were firmly on opposite sides of some great divide.

Agree with you Doug. But one thing bugs me - I think Hillary will succumb to the pressure that the CIA and others will put on the president to rule against the release of JFK documents.

Yeah. Thought of that too. I think Houston is the answer. And we know that George DeM wrote to GHWB when he was CIA director and George DeM was at his most desperate, shortly before his 'suicide'. Maybe that helps explain why Bush's Zapata files were destroyed in a fire.

Chris - Angleton's excuse is pathetic. How could anyone take him at his word? Of all files not to destroy they were it.