Robert Prudhomme

THis statement appears to be self-contradicting. She didn't see Mrs. Reid come in, she only saw four or five people one of whom was MRs. Reid. I don't see much mileage in that. And I would not put much faith in press reports where it is not clear which floor they are talking about. It is a shame that WC lawyers, such as Mr. Ball, did not attempt to establish a time frame when questioning witnesses. "Miss HINE. No, sir; after I answered the telephone then there was about four or five people that came in." Was this three minutes after the assassination or thirty minutes? I'm sure Mrs. Reid made her way upstairs eventually that day, but this testimony is no help at all to us, considering the split second timing involved here between the actions of Baker, Truly, Oswald and Mrs. Reid.

Mark After answering more questions on YOUTUBE today, I think I believe that the average person simply cannot believe that the US Gov't would lie to them. The JFK assassination is probably the biggest lie in history but until you understand what happened, it is simply not believable. And you can't believe and understand this issue until you yourself verify everything independently. And nothing seems to be trivial even though I thought that by showing that 4.8 seconds BEFORE and 0.7 Seconds AFTER JFK is shot in the head, that John Connally makes two of the quickest movements in the Zapruder film. That of course corresponds with the timing of the acoustical analysis, a shot fired 4.8 seconds before and 0.7 seconds after the JFK head shot. What is the probability that the HSCA audio experts picked those times from random noise when looking at an audio recording? The chance is nil, therefore the audio evidence is valid, it did record the sounds of the shots. Once you know the audio evidence is valid, the mystery of the shooting scenario becomes solvable. You know the wound locations and you know where 4 of the 5 shots were fired from. The HSCA test shots were fired from two locations because many witnesses said that is where they thought the shots were from, either the TSBD or the grassy knoll. The reasons that is true is: Shot #1 and #3 were 2.8 seconds apart, that is almost the 3 seconds you need to eject a shell and fire another shot from behind. The audio evidence shows there was a group of 3 shots, then a pause of 4.8 seconds then BANG-BANG. There is an overwhelming number of witnesses who were near the TSBD that said there were 3 shots fired from there. The only thing possible is that shots #1 and #3 were fired from the TSBD and one of the last two was from the TSBD. Shot 1 TSBD#1 Shot 2 Somewhere else Shot 3 TSBD #2 4.8 seconds Shot 4 Grassy Knoll Shot 5 TSBD #3 We know shot #4 was from the grassy knoll because Prof Barger wanted someone to check his results after reviewing the data from the audio tape. They hired a second set of audio "experts" and they were told there was insufficient money for more test shots! So they mathematically analyzed what they had and focused on shot #4, the grassy knoll shot. The audio experts figured that people wanted to know the answer when the insiders were working to shut the inquiry down. When you then combine the information you know from witnesses with the information you get from the audio evidence and the Zapruder film, you get this scenario: shot #1 Z178 missed the limo and hit a curb, James Tague slightly wounded TSBD#1 1.7 seconds shot #2 Z202 From left front through windshield, hit JFK in the front of his neck and exited the rear of his neck. You get the trajectory from the left front by noting there are several witnesses who saw the windshield with a hole just to the left of the rear view mirror 1.1 seconds shot #3 Bullet hit a branch and fragmented. CE840, bullet fragments under Nellie's seat proves a bullet fragmented. Another fragment hit John Connally in the left thigh which was just to the right of where CE840 fragments were found. Other witnesses saw something hit the street. Another fragment hit JFK in the back about 5.5 inches below his collar. TSBD#2 4.8 seconds later, the gunman see JFK is still alive and only wounded shot #4, fired from the grassy knoll, hits JFK just forward of his right ear in the hairline. It exits the right rear of JFK's head and leaves an exit wound about 5 inches across. Roy Kellerman's Warren Comm testimony matches the exit wound description given by the Parkland medical witnesses. 0.7 seconds shot #5 TSBD#3 misses JFK's head as he was knocked violently out of the way by shot #4. It hits Connally in the back and bends him over forward just exactly like he said. The bullet exits his chest, hits his right wrist and goes on toward the front of the limo CE567. Connally was wounded by shots #3 and #5. One of the lies told is that all of Connally's wounds were caused by one bullet, that is not true. Connally had a trivial wound right after the sign and that is why he could turn almost completely around in his seat. It is not credible to believe he had an exit wound in his chest the size of a baseball and he turned around to look over his right shoulder. Several seconds after Connally first reacted when a shot was fired. He only had a minor thigh wound when he turned. He was not shot in the back until Z frame 325. This is a magic bullet figure showing shows how the bullet exited JFK's neck and hit Connally in the back. The yellow trajectory is flatter as you would get if the limo was further away from the TSBD as in the Z325 shot. The JFK community bought the lie that Connally had to be shot in the back earlier because a flatter trajectory means he could not have been hit in the left thigh, therefore the erudite JFK community decided that Connally was wrong when he said " the force of the blow to his back bent him over"...... It all makes sense once you understand the audio evidence is valid because the sounds of the shots were recorded. Something else that seems to be missed by everyone is how the bullet managed to make its way from the back side of the wrist, between the radius and the ulna, and out the palm side of the wrist. Look at the diagram in your last post and try holding your wrist in such a fashion that would line up with the supposed trajectory of the bullet and allow the bullet to pass between the ulna and radius without striking the ulna. Unless JBC was severely double jointed, and I have seen no evidence that he was, it is far more likely the Magic Bullet would have struck his radius and stopped there, or struck his radius and been deflected away from his wrist. The lies continue.

It may easily be both, Robert. The key word in Biffle's DMN report is "toward": Campbell is said to have run toward the grassy knoll but not necessarily very far in that direction. We see lots of people do exactly that in the Couch film. He may then have returned to where Jeraldean Reid was standing and together they may have hurried back into the building, spotting Oswald in the small storage room just off the first-floor front lobby. From Campbell's 11/24 FBI interview: He then observed the car bearing President KENNEDY to slow down, a near stop, and a motorcycle policeman rushed up. Immediately following this, he observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately rushed into his building without having seen anything unusual from any window of this building. If I'm right about his and Jeraldean Reid's having spotted Oswald in the storage room, then Biffle's DMN report can be explained as a simple case of crossed wires. He picked up two reports--Oswald's having been spoken to by a revolver-toting police officer immediately after the assassination and Oswald's having been seen in a small storage room immediately after the assassination--and conflated them. The direct quote from Campbell in the NY Herald Tribune report allows us to separate out the two reports. Hello Sean I trust these FBI "interviews" about as far as I can throw my dog. There is simply too much WC testimony in which witnesses are in denial of what an FBI agent wrote in an "interview". As I said before, none of these interviews are written in the first person, and none are signed by the interviewee. It is as if the FBI never contemplated the possibility of any witnesses ever having to testify about what they saw, and the only way that could happen would be if the one and only suspect was eliminated. Could they have known Oswald was not to live through the weekend? The formation of the WC was likely a great surprise to the FBI. We can speculate abut how far Campbell ran towards the Grassy Knoll; whether it was a few feet or a few hundred feet, but the fact remains he did tell the reporter from the DMN that he ran toward the Grassy Knoll at the same time Baker and Truly were rushing into the TSBD. I maintain, considering the speed Baker went into the TSBD and the likelihood that he went up the stairs at the same speed, that Mrs. Reid could not have been on the 2nd floor to see Oswald with his Coke UNLESS Oswald, following his alleged 2nd floor encounter with Baker, was frozen into indecision and hid out on the 2nd floor long enough for Campbell and Mrs. Reid to return from the Grassy Knoll, and only then proceeded past Mrs. Reid on his way to the 1st floor. Your version of the storage room sighting of Oswald on the 1st floor is much more likely, yet even this stretches the imagination, considering that JFK was shot at 12:30 and Oswald reputedly left the TSBD at 12:33. I also find it rather incredulous that Baker would have run up one flight of stairs, to a very obvious landing on the 2nd floor, and believed himself to have been on the 3rd or 4th floor. There seems to have been a remarkable degree of "confusion" amongst Dealey Plaza witnesses that day.

From the Dallas Morning News 23/11/63: "Campbell said he ran toward a grassy knoll west of the building where he thought the sniper had hidden. He said Truly and an officer ran into the building." Once again, did O.V. Campbell, and presumably Mrs. Reid, "race" back into the building or "run" toward the grassy knoll? As I said before, awfully tight timing, I should think.

Coincidentally, about the time JBC is doing this rapid forward movement, Kellerman and Greer are also being thrown forward. This is likely a reaction to the stop and swerve of the limo so many witnesses reported. Strangely enough, while Kellerman is kissing the dashboard, Greer appears to be colliding with the steering wheel and the Connally's are ending up in a heap, neither of the Kennedy's are showing the least bit of reaction to a sudden deceleration and stop. This paradox is, to me, the most obvious proof of alteration of the Z film. WC apologists will swear up and down that Kellerman is merely dodging bullets when he is thrown forward towards the dashboard. Is anyone here familiar with Secret Service training procedures? Do they still teach the "smack your face on the dashboard" method of bullet evasion?

I'm a bit confused here, Sean, with Mr. Campbell's stories. Did he "race" back into the building following the shots or did he "run" towards the grassy knoll?

Quote: "I assume Lee went up the front steps to get his coke that he had been looking forward to. It was a fairly hot day, and he had worked hard all morning, according to his bosses." Somehow, I have this mental image of Baker and Oswald racing each other up the stairs for the 2nd floor meeting. Awfully tight timing, I should think.

Hello Sean It gets worse. I went to the site you gave me to read Jarman's HSCA interview. When I finished, I also read Harold Norman's HSCA interview. According to Norman, him, Jarman and Williams had time to sit and ponder on the 5th floor following the last shot, run down to the west end of the building and study the scene at the railroad yard for a bit (we passed there for a couple of minutes or so), go downstairs to the 4th floor and look out the windows and chit chat there (for a bit more than a couple of minutes, by his account), and finally take the back stairs down to the 1st floor and the main entrance, where they saw the police coming into the building. Here is the good part. He was then asked if he had seen Superintendent Truly on the 1st floor when they arrived and he replied, Yes, he did recall seeing him there. In other words, if Oswald left the building at 12:33, it seems Truly (and presumably Baker) are still on the 1st floor AFTER Oswald left the building. It is looking worse for the 2nd floor Oswald/Baker encounter by the day. Robert, Not trying to get you all riled up or nothin', but isn't it possible that Superintendent Truly returned to the first floor several minutes after the assassination, and that's when Norman, Jarman, and Williams saw him there? Also, you say that N, J, and W saw the police come into the building. I think we know that Officer Baker entered the building somewhere around 40 seconds after the last shot. Do we know when other policemen started coming in? Isn't it reasonable to assume that other policemen continued trickling in after after Baker and the initial "wave?" For timing purposes, it would be nice if we knew which policemen N, J, and W saw come into the building. --Tommy These are good questions. The best response I can think of is that Truly and Baker would have had to conduct a whirlwind search of all of the floors. Norman and his friends took their time coming down (and it is quite surprising they never met Truly and Baker either coming up or going down) but they were not THAT long in coming down. Do you think Officer Baker would have rushed to the top of the TSBD only to spend a couple of minutes up there? Robert, Yes, I do, because I can imagine that after a cursory search of the top floors, Baker probably wanted to get back down to the first floor to communicate with the other policemen coming in and to help seal off the building. --Tommy All of these people going up and down the stairs; strange they never ran into each other.

Mr. Murphy You have an incredibly analytical mind, and it is threads such as this one and members such as yourself that make me ever so thankful Mr. Simkin chose to re-open this forum. "Here's what I'm interested in: what do you believe happened between our last glimpse of Prayer Man in the Darnell film and Marrion Baker's first glimpse of Oswald through the door window on the second floor?" I must say I have to admire how you have refined the entire post down to one simple question which, in the final analysis, is likely the most important question to be asked on this matter.

Hello Sean It gets worse. I went to the site you gave me to read Jarman's HSCA interview. When I finished, I also read Harold Norman's HSCA interview. According to Norman, him, Jarman and Williams had time to sit and ponder on the 5th floor following the last shot, run down to the west end of the building and study the scene at the railroad yard for a bit (we passed there for a couple of minutes or so), go downstairs to the 4th floor and look out the windows and chit chat there (for a bit more than a couple of minutes, by his account), and finally take the back stairs down to the 1st floor and the main entrance, where they saw the police coming into the building. Here is the good part. He was then asked if he had seen Superintendent Truly on the 1st floor when they arrived and he replied, Yes, he did recall seeing him there. In other words, if Oswald left the building at 12:33, it seems Truly (and presumably Baker) are still on the 1st floor AFTER Oswald left the building. It is looking worse for the 2nd floor Oswald/Baker encounter by the day. Robert, Not trying to get you all riled up or nothin', but isn't it possible that Superintendent Truly returned to the first floor several minutes after the assassination, and that's when Norman, Jarman, and Williams saw him there? Also, you say that N, J, and W saw the police come into the building. We seem to know that Officer Baker entered the building somewhere between 40 seconds and one-and-one-half minutes after the last shot. Do we know when the other policemen started coming in? Isn't it reasonable to assume that policemen continued coming in after the initial "wave?" For timing purposes, it would be nice if we knew which policemen N, J, and W saw come into the building. --Tommy These are good questions. The best response I can think of is that Truly and Baker would have had to conduct a whirlwind search of all of the floors. Norman and his friends took their time coming down (and it is quite surprising they never met Truly and Baker either coming up or going down) but they were not THAT long in coming down. Do you think Officer Baker would have rushed to the top of the TSBD only to spend a couple of minutes up there?

Hello Sean It gets worse. I went to the site you gave me to read Jarman's HSCA interview. When I finished, I also read Harold Norman's HSCA interview. According to Norman, him, Jarman and Williams had time to sit and ponder on the 5th floor following the last shot, run down to the west end of the building and study the scene at the railroad yard for a bit (we passed there for a couple of minutes or so), go downstairs to the 4th floor and look out the windows and chit chat there (for a bit more than a couple of minutes, by his account), and finally take the back stairs down to the 1st floor and the main entrance, where they saw the police coming into the building. Here is the good part. He was then asked if he had seen Superintendent Truly on the 1st floor when they arrived and he replied, Yes, he did recall seeing him there. In other words, if Oswald left the building at 12:33, it seems Truly (and presumably Baker) are still on the 1st floor AFTER Oswald left the building. It is looking worse for the 2nd floor Oswald/Baker encounter by the day.

What about Mrs. Reid, Sean? She said she saw Oswald coming out of the break room after the shooting. If Oswald is Prayer Man, and the Baker/Truly run-in with Oswald happened on the first floor, she would have to have been a xxxx, correct? If she was lying, however, one would have to wonder why she said she thought Oswald was wearing a t-shirt at the time...and not the brown shirt he was wearing when arrested, whose fibers matched the fibers found on the rifle. Holmes was not a murder investigator, and he didn't take notes in his interview with Oswald. He was there to ask about the rifle, and NOT get Oswald to retell his story from start to finish. He may very well have got the bit about Oswald being stopped at the door from the paper quoting Hicks, and Hicks may very well have got it from someone misunderstanding what had happened between Oswald and Baker. The DPD's failure to shut down the building for minutes after the shooting was a major embarrassment, and it may have sounded better, or made more sense, to some to assume Oswald walked out the front after talking to a cop, than the truth--that the front was wide open, and that anyone--including shooters other than Oswald--could have walked out the front. Pat, I do have serious doubts about Jeraldean Reid's testimony. First, it is contradicted by that of Geneva Hine. Second, it is a whopping coincidence that, of all the people to come forward on the Saturday with compelling corroboration of Roy Truly's second-floor lunchroom story, it should be the very lady who was standing with Roy Truly (her boss to whom she reported) at the time of the shooting. Quite a fluke, no? Quite a fluke also that the other person watching the motorcade with Truly and Reid was Ochus Campbell, who is quoted as having told reporters that same day that Oswald had been seen just after the shooting on the first floor. It also seems suspiciously pat that this lady should just so happen to spot Oswald at the very moment he was coming through the door into the office with--and Mrs. Reid noticed this!--a full coke in his hand. What a marvelous ticking of boxes for her boss's story. Why did Mrs Reid say t-shirt only? Hard to say, but it's possible she actually did see Oswald in a white t-shirt on the second floor, but several minutes before the motorcade. When might this have been? The following snippet in her WC testimony may give us a tantalising clue: Mr. BELIN. All right. When you left the lunchroom, did you leave with the other girls? [/size] Mrs. REID. No; I didn't. The younger girls had gone and I left alone. [/size] Mr. BELIN. Were you the last person in the lunchroom? [/size] Mrs. REID. No; I could not say that because I don't remember that part of it because I was going out of the building by myself, I wasn't even, you know, connected with anyone at all. [/size] Mr. BELIN. Were there any men in the lunchroom when you left there? [/size] Mrs. REID. I can't, I don't, remember that. [/size] Mr. BELIN. All right. [/size] Mrs. REID. I can't remember the time they left.[/size] Did Reid see Lee Oswald there? It's hardly a stretch to suspect so, given Carolyn Arnold's claim to have seen him there just a little after that. ** As for Holmes, I find it odd that one would trust him on Oswald's claim in custody less than one would trust Will 'Case Cinched' Fritz, the man who threatened to beat the living daylights out of Buell Wesley Frazier if he didn't cooperate. I have no doubt that Holmes was a shady insider, but why in heaven's name would he deliberately tell the WC something so disastrous to the official story? No, I think it's perfectly reasonable to supect that Holmes let the cat out of the bag by saying he had heard Oswald say just what Bookhout & Hosty had heard him say: I went upstairs to the coke machine, bought a coke and came on downstairs, which is where I was at the time President passed the building. Holmes by the way doesn't just reproduce the information in those press reports quoting Ed Hicks. He adds significant detail of his own: vestibule + correct description of TSBD front lobby. Let's also note that James Jarman told the HSCA that Billy Lovelady told him that Oswald was stopped by an officer at the front entrance and vouched for by Mr. Truly. I have been attempting to locate the HSCA testimony of James "Junior" Jarman but have had no luck. Could you direct me to it? It seems rather remarkable that the HSCA would not try to track down this bit of information by at least bringing Lovelady in to testify.

What we got here is colloquially known as HEARSAY, ergo inadmissible. Yes, it is hearsay but, can you think of a reason Jarman would fabricate this information? Also, did the HSCA attempt to corroborate this testimony of Jarman's by questioning Billy Lovelady?

Mr. Charleston I have long felt there to be something awry with the official explanation, as well. To me, the most glaring piece of information is Connally's persistent claim that the shot hit him in the back "doubled me up" and "knocked me over". These are strong definitive words and cannot be mistaken for any movement of JBC's prior to z313. The true paradox, however, is in both JBC's and his wife's also very persistent claim that JBC was shot in the back and they were both lying down on the seat when they heard the shot that struck JFK in the head AND felt a spray of brain matter on their persons. I believe you are on the right track with your research but I also believe the coverup and resulting alterations to the Zapruder film may be even more complicated than you and I can even imagine. You have aroused my suspicions and I am now just doublechecking some old statements to see if I missed some things the first time I read them. I would like to continue discussion with you on this thread.

I don't believe Holmes a xxxx, if that's what you're getting at. I just think he's highly unreliable as to Oswald's exact words about what he did after the shooting. He wasn't there to compare and contrast Oswald's statements about his movements and to try to catch him in a lie; that was Fritz's job. He was there to discuss the rifle; that's it. As an exercise, I suggest everyone here go back and read a post you made a week or so ago. Now try to remember the EXACT words of the post you were responding to. You can't do it. And neither could Holmes. Where there were gaps, he fudged things. When people fudge things, they often reach for what feels familiar. Something they've read in the paper--or heard from a friendly cop--is likely to feel familiar. By way of example, there are a number of witnesses claiming they saw Kennedy's foot fly up over the side of the limo during the shooting. This was something they read in the paper. It never happened. I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Pat. I have gone over Holmes' WC testimony several times and I have to say I am quite impressed with Holmes' recall. He is able to present minute details to the Commission months after the assassination. If he made mistakes in his testimony, would you be so good as to point them out to us? Or perhaps you could show us where you believe he "fudged" things in his testimony?

Quote: "Holmes was not a murder investigator, and he didn't take notes in his interview with Oswald. He was there to ask about the rifle, and NOT get Oswald to retell his story from start to finish. He may very well have got the bit about Oswald being stopped at the door from the paper quoting Hicks, and Hicks may very well have got it from someone misunderstanding what had happened between Oswald and Baker. The DPD's failure to shut down the building for minutes after the shooting was a major embarrassment, and it may have sounded better, or made more sense, to some to assume Oswald walked out the front after talking to a cop, than the truth--that the front was wide open, and that anyone--including shooters other than Oswald--could have walked out the front." I fail to see the point of your argument, and how it could possibly make Holmes' testimony to the WC untrustworthy.

I don't know why others don't seem to trust him, but Harry Holmes was a key player in the Oswald drama, especially in the first few hours when they were tracking down the guns and the post office boxes - and the Hidell alias comes into play. Holme's office overlooks Dealey Plaza and the Post Office Annex, as it is called, is also home to other federal offices - including the Secret Service annex, and an ONI annex, both agencies also having other official offices on Main Street. The Warren Commission conducted interviews and took testimony in the PO Annex (ie. Truly), and as in Miami and other cities, there should have been a Sherrif's office sniper on the roof and there wasn't. [The most effective was to counter a sniper is with another sniper). And yes, Mr. Tommy that does appear to be the witness, whose exagerated five minutes certainly doesn't disqualify him totally. While Holmes came up with enough of the necessary post office documentation of weapons purchases they needed to pin the tail on the Patsy, he couldn't come up with one witness - a post office employee who handed Oswald the rifle and pistol over the counter and took his COD payment or ever handed Oswald anything. Then when it was time for the DPD to hand Oswald over to Sheriff Decker, Holmes gets one last shot at Oswald - and keeps him there until - Jack Ruby is in position? - Holmes's report is interesting in that he says Oswald didn't lie when it came to the PO boxes, and everything that he said about them checked out. JFKCountercoup2: Interrogations of Oswald I don't want to diver this thread from the topic - the identity of "Prayer Man" and photos or films of Oswald leaving the TSBD, but Holme's reports on what Oswald said days earlier doesn't seem to hold water. No, of course we do not want to divert this thread away from the main topic, that being the identity of the so-called Prayer Man, seen at the top of the stairs entering the TSBD. In my opinion, this is one of the few fresh leads in this case in many many years, and I think that ID'ing this man has the potential to open this case wide open. For that reason, though, I feel Holmes may be one of the most important people to testify before the WC; simply because the testimony he gives us, mostly relating what he heard Oswald say in interrogation on 24/11/63, would seem to place Oswald within mere feet of Prayer Man at the time of the assassination. It is important to remember that our man Oswald may not have been totally innocent in this affair, and while he may have admitted to being on the 1st floor, he may have been reluctant to admit he was actually on the steps, for whatever reasons. Just what part of Holmes' report do you feel does not hold water?

No one seems to "trust" Harry Holmes. Would anyone care to elaborate on just why they find Mr. Holmes any more untrustworthy than anyone else involved in this case?

Good observation. One wonders how many other instances there were of Truly "not-seeing someone", but failed to include in his report. The truth is, We know from the photo and film evidence that Truly and Baker would have passed right by Prayer Man (and numerous other people) as they entered the building. Mr. Hocking The WC seemed to put so much stock in these FBI "interviews". Interestingly, they are always written, by the agent, in the third person and I have yet to see one signed by the interviewee, as would be the case with a police statement. The FBI interview that intrigues me the most, and, to me, speaks volumes about FBI statements in general, is the interview with Linnie Mae Randle. In it, according to the FBI, she described the paper bag as being thirty-six inches long; yet in her testimony to the WC she adamantly maintained the bag was closer to twenty-seven inches in length. Could an overly eager FBI agent have added the "They saw no one there..." to this statement?

The man in the blue shirt, raising his arms in the air, is on the opposite side of Elm St. from the TSBD. I believe that person is actually standing on the pergola wall.

Watch out, Richard. That way lies INDIGESTION! I'll bring the Tums!

Hello Mr. Adams I have heard before, as you stated, that Oswald said he went outside to see what the excitement was all about following the shots, but I have never been able to find the source of this. Do you know when and to whom he was supposed to have said this? More specifically, did Oswald actually refer to the excitement as being the commotion following the assassination? He may have been referring to the crowd outside the TSBD seeing JFK coming down Houston St. and the resulting elevation in excitement. What a pity Oswald never lived to stand trial. Hello Robert, here is what I found on that; WC testimony of postal inspector Harry D. Holmes on the score of what Oswald said in custody on the Sunday morning: Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting? Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule. Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule? Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part. Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor? Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor. ... Mr. HOLMES. There was a commotion outside, which he later rushed downstairs to go out to see what was going on. He didn't say whether he took the stairs down. He didn't say whether he took the elevator down. But he went downstairs, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved. He mentioned something about a coke. But a police officer asked him who he was, and just as he started to identify himself, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men." And the policeman said, "Well, you step aside for a little bit." Then another man rushed in past him as he started out the door, in this vestibule part of it, and flashed some kind of credential and he said, "Where is your telephone, where is your telephone, and said I am so and so, where is your telephone." And he said, "I didn't look at the credential. I don't know who he said he was, and I just pointed to the phone and said, 'there it is,' and went on out the door." Excellent find, Terry. You have to wonder what Oswald meant by "vestibule". Did he mean the area between the inner and outer doors, or was he referring to the covered Entry steps and porch (which I have been referring to as an "alcove")? If it is the latter, it would be strong evidence of Baker encountering Oswald at Prayer Man's location. Even if LHO meant inside the door, it is still only a couple steps away. Another item that comes to mind: Greg Parker and, I believe, Lee Farley (both contributors to this site) some time ago presented a strong case that the 2nd floor encounter between Oswald and Baker never happened on the 2nd floor, but rather somewhere else ... food for thought. If I can find the link, I will post it. Mr. Hocking I was just thinking the same thing and was about to put it in a post. You are correct, I do recall hearing that the 2nd floor encounter may never have occurred on the 2nd floor at all. I can't quite recall where I heard it but, someone also claimed there was reference to a 4th floor meeting. Does this sound familiar to you? Anyone?

Hello Mr. Adams I have heard before, as you stated, that Oswald said he went outside to see what the excitement was all about following the shots, but I have never been able to find the source of this. Do you know when and to whom he was supposed to have said this? More specifically, did Oswald actually refer to the excitement as being the commotion following the assassination? He may have been referring to the crowd outside the TSBD seeing JFK coming down Houston St. and the resulting elevation in excitement. What a pity Oswald never lived to stand trial. Hello Robert, here is what I found on that; WC testimony of postal inspector Harry D. Holmes on the score of what Oswald said in custody on the Sunday morning: Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting? Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule. Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule? Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part. Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor? Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor. ... Mr. HOLMES. There was a commotion outside, which he later rushed downstairs to go out to see what was going on. He didn't say whether he took the stairs down. He didn't say whether he took the elevator down. But he went downstairs, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved. He mentioned something about a coke. But a police officer asked him who he was, and just as he started to identify himself, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men." And the policeman said, "Well, you step aside for a little bit." Then another man rushed in past him as he started out the door, in this vestibule part of it, and flashed some kind of credential and he said, "Where is your telephone, where is your telephone, and said I am so and so, where is your telephone." And he said, "I didn't look at the credential. I don't know who he said he was, and I just pointed to the phone and said, 'there it is,' and went on out the door." Mr. Adams Thank you very much for that response. Wow! Harry Holmes seems to be contradicting the entire Baker/Oswald meeting on the second floor, and adds a whole new dimension to the "Coke/no Coke" debate. This is indeed a revelation. What a pity the "commotion outside" that drew Oswald out the front door was never defined as being the commotion following the assassination or the commotion at the sight of JFK making the turn from Main St. onto Houston St. In order for our anonymous man at the head of the stairs to be Oswald, it would have to be the "commotion outside" that arose at the sight of the motorcade coming into view, in order to give the man on the stairs time to be outside before pictures and video were taken. Of course, though, Harry Holmes never actually testifies that Oswald claimed to have actually made it out the front door; a very important point that should definitely be noted. If he had briefly come outside, and then went back inside the vestibule, we must ask ourselves why he would want to hide the fact from his interrogators that he had been outside briefly.

My apologies, Kathy. I do tend to get riled easily.

There does seem to be a glint here. A bottle? Hello Sean The way the arms are being held and the height they are being held at reminds me of my father who bought an 8 mm home movie camera in the early 60's. He would stand in almost the exact fashion, with the camera held in both hands, while he was waiting for an event he wanted to take footage of. Of course, it does seem a bit odd that someone shooting movie footage would be standing so far back in the doorway. He would, however, have an adequate vantage point as JFK came around the corner, as there was only one person in front of him and that person was standing on a lower step.