Antti Hynonen
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Posts posted by Antti Hynonen
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Tim Gratz Posted Today, 12:22 PM
Good thing Walker was not riding in a car when Oswald shot at him; he might have hit him!
Ok, what does that have to do with this thread; the question raised by Pat Speer?
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Based on the signature and/or name below on the same page, I would say it was no one else but George DeMohrenschildt himself (just an opinion, not fact).
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Yes, Thomas, thanks for the correction, LHO was stationed in San Diego and the Cuban Consulate was in LA, from memory, though I stand to be corrected.
BK
I thought LHO was stationed at El Toro in Santa Ana? About 35 miles from down-town LA?
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Antti Hynonen Posted Oct 27 2007, 12:35 PM
QUOTE
Thomas H. Purvis Posted Yesterday, 06:12 PM
QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Oct 26 2007, 08:48 AM)
Tom,
Ok, quite clear. How do you explain the origin of the shot versus the upward angle of the third bullet?
That is as it's path is from C to B, in your illustration, is clearly up, not down. Also when taking into account that the earlier shot to the head is clearly in a downward angle and was possibly, logically fired from the 6th floor TSBD. Additonally the wound to the back of JFK, would according to this scenario be in a downward angle, furthermore the JBC wound (near shoulder blade to nipple) would be a downward angle.
Why is the third one angled so differently?
"UP" is relative only when the head is held erect!
Otherwise, one must know the position of the head at the time of impact in order to determine UP vs. DOWN.
P.S. This is the WHY? of the elongagted wound of entry through the skull, why the bullet could strike the scalp lower than the EOP, yet enter the skull above the EOP, as well as why the bullet went through the coat at the edge of the collar, on such an oblique angle of penetration.
P.P.S. Forgot add that this is also how the bullet "tunneled" thorough the soft flesh at the base of the neck prior to striking the skull.
Is there evidence of JFK's head being in the position at the time of the third shot, it seems to be a rather unnatural position?
Back to Tom's 3rd shot that hit the neck at the hairline and then the skull near the EOP, which occurred at the James Altgens location of the motorcade. Tom, the head's position at this time, as you demonstrated in a drawing posted prior, was showing that the head was in a very steep downward angle. I characterized it as a rather unnatural position (I say, unnatural even for a dying man). I also asked if there was any evidence, something like a still frame or a photo of this point in time that could verify this position?
It would be meaningful for all following this thread, to also have explained this third shot in full. I am particularly interested in the path of the bullet and a drawing or diagram showing the complete path of this bullet, from the back of the neck at the hairline of JFK to Connally's back, below the shoulderblade. The rest of the bullet's path (before striking JFK and after is exuited JBC's chest) is quite clear to me. Thanks.
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Does anyone know where Linnie Mae Randall (Randle) or B. Wesley Frazier live today?
Is there anything other than their Warren Commission depositions and testimony?
BK
Bill,
Buell Wesley Frazier was interviewed on the "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" series, one of the 1-6 shows, can't remember which one. The last time I checked Buell Wesley Frazier lived in Texas, the greater Dallas area, I recall.
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Craig Lamson Posted Yesterday, 06:21 PM
Uh..the camera had a fixed focus, no user intervention required. The camera WAS NOT COMPLEX! You viewed the image on the ground glass and pushed the shutter button.
The framing left LOTS to be desired. Of the three photos, 2 had the feet cut off, and two were quite rotated. All in all quite the opposite of the picture that you have painted. She took the photos EXACTLY like a novice might.
Ok, I'll let everyone judge for themselves. With the complexity of the camera I meant, my opinion is that this model was not as easy to operate as the simplest cameras of the 1980's or 1990's for example. Of course I could be wrong. Expert opinion on the camera's operation would be welcomed. See link below for the backyard photos to judge the quality of the novice.
http://www.famouspictures.org/mag/index.ph..._Backyard_Shots
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Thomas H. Purvis Posted Yesterday, 06:12 PM
QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Oct 26 2007, 08:48 AM)
Tom,
Ok, quite clear. How do you explain the origin of the shot versus the upward angle of the third bullet?
That is as it's path is from C to B, in your illustration, is clearly up, not down. Also when taking into account that the earlier shot to the head is clearly in a downward angle and was possibly, logically fired from the 6th floor TSBD. Additonally the wound to the back of JFK, would according to this scenario be in a downward angle, furthermore the JBC wound (near shoulder blade to nipple) would be a downward angle.
Why is the third one angled so differently?
"UP" is relative only when the head is held erect!
Otherwise, one must know the position of the head at the time of impact in order to determine UP vs. DOWN.
P.S. This is the WHY? of the elongagted wound of entry through the skull, why the bullet could strike the scalp lower than the EOP, yet enter the skull above the EOP, as well as why the bullet went through the coat at the edge of the collar, on such an oblique angle of penetration.
P.P.S. Forgot add that this is also how the bullet "tunneled" thorough the soft flesh at the base of the neck prior to striking the skull.
Is there evidence of JFK's head being in the position at the time of the third shot, it seems to be a rather unnatural position?
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Marcel Dehaeseleer Posted Today, 01:31 PM
Gentlemen,
In my opinion, the backyard photos are fakes!
I agree with Jack White!
Another certainty is that Marina Oswald has not shot the backyard photos.
The Imperial duo lens Camera: This kind of camera has a head-up viewfinder. When you aim, the image you see thru the viewfinder is horizontally inverted. Therefore it is not easy to aim in a natural way, you must to invert horizontally the movements of the camera (for instance, to place the subject in the middle of image.)
It’s not easy to forget how you have taken pictures with this kind of camera (moreover... with a bright noon sunshine which increases the difficulty for aiming).
In her HSCA testimony, Marina mistakenly described the camera and also how she used it.
See what follows: Imperial Camera CE-750
Best regards,...
Marcel
Marcel,
I think you raise a very important point. These were some of the first (if not the first) photos Marina took. Considering this, and the complexity of the camera, the photos turned out remarkably well. As far as I know, some 6 poses were taken, all relatively well focused, and otherwise well proportioned for a complete novice. Hey, after all Time magazine published one of them on the mag. cover!
Ce sont pas de photos autenthiques, pas par Marina en tous cas.
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I am asking members to use the "Report" function, found on the left hand side of each post, that is when they deem that there is something inappropriate in a post. It is a huge task for moderators to carefully follow and read each post, therefore I am officially requesting the help of members in "monitoring" posts.
Thank you.
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William Kelly Posted Today, 04:08 AM.
I don't know if anybody else posted this link, but it addresses this issue in a very impressive way. The chronology is a killer. Convinced me. - BK
You guys are joking. Whoever compiled this website must have had some prescription meds.
Read through the timeline.
Find a few things quite astonishing, and these things, rather unbelievable:
* Elvis meets and becomes friends with Shaw and Ferrie, who introduce him to New Orleans society.
* Towards the end of his (Elvis') training he will attend a USO sponsored mixer and will meet Ruth Hyde Paine. They remain friends after his transfer to Germany.
* Oswald celebrates his release from the Marines by attending a performance of "The Suttletones" at the Nevada Club in Las Vegas, NV. He meets the group's lead singer, Ann-Margret, who encourages him to defect to the USSR.
* Elvis, eaten by hate, decides to murder Walker through a hired gunman. Ann-Margret arranges for Elvis to meet Oswald in Dallas, TX during a layover as Elvis returns from location after filming "Fun in Acapulco".
* 22 February 1963, Elvis arranges for Paine to meet the Oswalds and take them under her wing.
* Elvis, with assistance of Esposita, Fortas, Hodge, and West, assassinates JFK while the president's motorcade passes through Dealey Plaza in Dallas, TX. Infuriated by Elvis' rejection, Oswald murders Elvis look alike, Officer J.D.Tippit.
Any vaid evidence to support any of this?
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Tom,
Ok, quite clear. How do you explain the origin of the shot versus the upward angle of the third bullet?
That is as it's path is from C to B, in your illustration, is clearly up, not down. Also when taking into account that the earlier shot to the head is clearly in a downward angle and was possibly, logically fired from the 6th floor TSBD. Additonally the wound to the back of JFK, would according to this scenario be in a downward angle, furthermore the JBC wound (near shoulder blade to nipple) would be a downward angle.
Why is the third one angled so differently?
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I will submit a request to John Simkin to have those members placed on permanent moderation who threaten to expose (or expose) something unpleasant (and immaterial to the thread or case) about a fellow members past. Let this be a final warning.
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Tom,
Do you have in your materials, a drawing, or some sort of diagram, showing the final bullet's path (from TSBD, to JFK' neck - head to Connally). It would help a lot in terms of understanding exactly what you are explaining. Of particular interest would be the bullet's path from the point it strikes JFK to the point it strikes JBC. So if there is any way to enlarge this part?
I can sort of understand how this final bullet could strike Connally (the angles ofthe bullet and Connally's position sort of make sense), although I still tend to lean towards a bullet striking his back much earlier that the Altgens position. Like I said earlier, I base my opinion on the Zapruder film and the testimony of the Connally's (although it is not in perfect harmony with the Zapruder film evidence).
Right now, unfortunately, I can not understand, from your explanation, what happens to the bullet, nor it's flight path, from the point it hits JFK in the neck to when it hits JBC near his shoulder blade.
Thanks.
Antti
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Jack White Posted Today, 12:40 PM
Antti...I just checked again and page three of this thread is still missing.
You seem to be a reasonable man. Stop and ask yourself some reasonable
questions.
WHY IS ONE PAGE, AND ONLY ONE PAGE, MISSING FROM THIS THREAD?
Why are no pages missing from any other threads? Why can other persons
see this page and Jack White cannot? Why is it a page which I prepared
specially for the benefit of Ashton and asked Bernice to post...and as soon
as she posted it I checked, and the image space was blank, and now the
entire page three is empty except for ONE message? Are these not
interesting questions?
Along with these questions, ask yourself why seven messages posted by
Jack White cannot be seen on his computer, yet moderators insist that
none of his messages have been deleted.
Do you not see a pattern here targeting an individual, provoking protests
which make Jack White appear to be a trouble maker?
I am not making any of this up!
Jack
Jack, I can see your frustration and definitely there is a pattern. However, there is nothing that I know of that I can do to change this. Now, this thread is about "There Was No Bullet Wound in John F. Kennedy's Throat", lets try and keep it on topic. Thanks.
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Jack White Posted Today, 11:26 AM
Thanks, Antti...but on my computer...SIX HOURS LATER, the image is not there, and
in fact, THE ENTIRITY OF PAGE THREE HAS DISAPPEARED EXCEPT FOR A SINGLE
POSTING! All the other pages in the thread are just fine, except for page three, which
contains Bernice's image. I am forced to believe that someone is messing around
with me using some computer technology not recognized by the forum, forcing me to
register constant complaints about messages not appearing.
Jack
Sorry Jack, I don't know how to help you. I can see all pages just fine and can also see the attachments. Perhaps you can try another computer somewhere sometime? I bet your troubles will disappear with that trick.
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Thomas H. Purvis Posted Oct 19 2007, 01:20 PM
Antti (& any others);
I am currently in argument with one of the so-called greats of the medical evidence on another talk show, and since this has more or less been my home for the longest time, then it would be supposed that it should be explained here.
1. Many think there is confusion on the part of Dr. Humes/Boswell/Finck in locating the entrance wound into the back of the head of JFK. (Above the EOP/Below the EOP)
Actually, not unlike most of the other evidence, the confusion lies in those who are not listening to what is stated.
The entry point through the SCALP was at the lower edge of the hairline at the back of the neck/base of the skull of JFK, and was BELOW the level of the EOP.
The bullet tunnelled through the soft tissue at the base of the neck, to strike the skull ABOVE the EOP.
NOW!
Were JFK sitting in an erect position (as he is at Z313) and such a bullet impact struck on a downward firing angle of approximately 15-degrees downward, then it would be physically impossible for that bullet to have immediately, upon impact, to have turned upwards on an angle which would have taken it through the soft tissue at the base of the skull, to ultimately impact with the skull in the EOP vicinity.
So!
1. The actual first point of impact was actually the coat of JFK at the junction of where the collar turns down.
Due to the acute/oblique position of the coat/collar at the point of impact, the bullet traversed through the fabric on an angle, and although it penetrated the coat as well as the liner, the two holes are not exactly/directly in alignment when the cloth is flattened out.
2. The bullet then struck the base of the skull of JFK at the lowere edge of the hairline.
3. Due to the position in which JFK was in at the time of impact, leaning/bent/well forward with his head down and his face slightly turned, the back of his neck and head were exposed in a horizontal/horizontal-downward position.
4. This position is how the striking bullet managed to strike at the base of the hairline below the level of the EOP, traverse through the soft flesh of the neck, and then ultimately strike the skull in the vicinity of the EOP.
5. This is also the WHY? that the entrance wound through the skull of JFK had an abnormally extended length, as the bullet struck the skull on the same actute/oblique angle as it penetrated throught the coat and the sof tissues at the base of the skull.
Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy sheet drawing merely drew in the direction of the bullet based on the vertical position in which the drawing was made.
When one takes the actual pathway of the bullet:
Base of skull below EOP at edge of hairline-----to/through soft tissue of neck------------to elongated skull impact slightly above EOP------------------to impact with tip/upper edge of occipital lobe of brain---------------
Then one must either accept that either a midget was hiding in the trunk of the Presidential Limo and fired on an upward position, or else, JFK's head was not in the vertical posiltion at the time of impact of this bullet.
I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other?
Not unlike other things in the Zapruder film that one will not see, they will not see the impact of this, the final shot.
However, one may want to take a close look at:
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z341.jpg
(as well as those frames on each side of Z341)
As well as questioning exactly why the "Sprocket Holes" have the same demonstrated problem as those once missing frames of the film in the Z210 range.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm
Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car.
Mr. ALTGENS - I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera.
Because, you see, even up to that time I didn't know that the President had been shot previously. I still thought up until that time that all I heard was fireworks and that they were giving some sort of celebration to the President by popping these fireworks. It stunned me so at what I saw that I failed to do my duty and make the picture that I was hoping to make.
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck
There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing,
And, as Mr. Paul Harvey once stated: "Now, you know the rest of the story".
At least as to why Jackie determined it prudent to vacate the Limosine!
Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire.
JBC suffered a broken wrist from impact of a bullet fragment from the Z313 headshot at the time that he went over into Nellie's side of the car with his head in her lap.
Nellie did not "pull him down", she merely grabbed JBC when he went into her direction and held onto him after he went over into her direction and began slumping down into the seat.
Mrs. CONNALLY. No, he turned away from me. I was pretending that I was him. I never again looked in the back seat of the car after my husband was shot. My concern was for him, and I remember that he turned to the right and then just slumped down into the seat, so that I reached over to pull him toward me. X was trying to get him down and me down. The jump seats were not very roomy, so that there were reports that he slid into the seat of the car, which he did not; that he fell over into my lap, which he did not.
I just pulled him over into my arms
And then he just recoiled and just sort of slumped in his seat.
I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap.
We learned later--I read a lot of stories that upset me later because they said we slipped down into the floor, that John slid off, fell over into my lap. Those little jump seats were not very big and there was no way that he could have slid to the floor, there is no way either of us could have got to the floor.
The only thing I could do was pull him down and by leaning over him, I hoped if anything else happened, they wouldn't hurt him anymore. I never looked back after John was hit. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "they have shot my husband."
and out of the line of fire.[/b]
NOPE!
When JBC went over/down across the seats with his head in Nellie's lap, he exposed his back and right shoulder to the bullet which exited the head of JFK (aka the third/last/final shot).
When this bullet exited:
Mrs. CONNALLY- The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us.
MR. Altgens - There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing,
Thus, JBC in fact went over/was partially pulled down, directly into the line of fire for the bullet as it traversed through the mid-brain of JFK, exited the skull in the frontal lobe, and thereafter struck JBC in the shoulder which was exposed across the open area between the jump seats where JBC & Nellie were located.
And, as Mr. Paul Harvey stated: "And, now you know the rest of the story". as regards the WHY that JBC's coat had to be laundered prior to being examined.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr2.htm
Mr. FRAZIER - It is different in that the President's clothing had not been cleaned. It had only been dried. The blood was dried. However, the Governor's garments had been cleaned and pressed.
Sitting upright in the jump seat at Z313, it was physically impossible for cerebral tissue from the head of JFK to have splattered all over the back side of the coat worn by JBC.
However, when leaning across the open area between the jump seats with his back and shoulder exposed, at the time of the third/last/final shot impact, which also blew cerebral tissue forward in the limosine, the entire backside of JBC's coat would have been covered with blood/cerebral tissue.
One would have thought that some of these "Blood Splatter" experts would have taken the time to have figured this one out also.
Tom
Tom,
Sorry for my delayed reply. Thanks for your further explanation.
I'm still having trouble understanding this scenario. I can understand that you say that the third shot to the head occurred at the Altgens position and that this bullet also struck JBC. However, I have diffficulties in visualizing this bullets path.
You say that:
1. The actual first point of impact was actually the coat of JFK at the junction of where the collar turns down.Due to the acute/oblique position of the coat/collar at the point of impact, the bullet traversed through the fabric on an angle, and although it penetrated the coat as well as the liner, the two holes are not exactly/directly in alignment when the cloth is flattened out.
2. The bullet then struck the base of the skull of JFK at the lowere edge of the hairline.
3. Due to the position in which JFK was in at the time of impact, leaning/bent/well forward with his head down and his face slightly turned, the back of his neck and head were exposed in a horizontal/horizontal-downward position.
4. This position is how the striking bullet managed to strike at the base of the hairline below the level of the EOP, traverse through the soft flesh of the neck, and then ultimately strike the skull in the vicinity of the EOP.
5. This is also the WHY? that the entrance wound through the skull of JFK had an abnormally extended length, as the bullet struck the skull on the same actute/oblique angle as it penetrated throught the coat and the sof tissues at the base of the skull.
Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy sheet drawing merely drew in the direction of the bullet based on the vertical position in which the drawing was made.
When one takes the actual pathway of the bullet:
Base of skull below EOP at edge of hairline-----to/through soft tissue of neck------------to elongated skull impact slightly above EOP------------------to impact with tip/upper edge of occipital lobe of brain---------------
Then one must either accept that either a midget was hiding in the trunk of the Presidential Limo and fired on an upward position, or else, JFK's head was not in the vertical posiltion at the time of impact of this bullet.
From this I can recap the following: 3rd bullet strike: JFK's head is relatively horizontal (you stated vertical in a prior post?), he is struck in the neck near the collar of his coat, this bullet travels through the soft tissues of the neck to enter the skull at the EOP...
I can not visualize this happening, as it seems quite unrealistic to me. Not that most things in this case don't seem that way, but this is just, well, how should I say it, unbelievable to me.
To back up a bit, the underlying assumption is that also this bullet is fired from the TSBD SW6 floor window. It is therefore traveling in a downward angle of say 10 degrees (just to make it simple). However, the victim (JFK) is still sitting semi-upright, with his head tilted forward (I'd say less than perfectly horizontal, as opposed to completely horizontal) and to the side.
Problem: although we agree that JFK's neck is exposed due to this position, his head is only midway between being horizontal from vertical. Not completely horizontal and definitely not beyond horizontal. Therefore I claim that JFK's head is in a slight upward angle, say 10 degrees up from a perfect horizontal tilt. (tilted forward, towards being horizontal, but not horizontal).
One can try this at home in front of the computer when sitting down, one's head will not be perfectly horizontal, that is no matter how hard one tries to bend one's neck into a 90 degree angle. Ok, maybe some gymnast can do it, I can't.
I do claim that JFK's head's/neck's position can be seen from the Zapruder film and possibly the other footage showing the limousine approaching the Altgens position. This will demonstrate the position of JFK and his head/neck at or near the James Altgens positon on Elm Street.
Considering that the bullet is approaching in a downward angle of an assumed 10 degrees and the head of JFK is in an upward angle of an assumed 10 degrees, I see no way how it is possible for a bullet to strike the neck in the soft fleshy section and to then travel upwards to enter the skull at the EOP.
In fact had the bullet travelled in the way you say, a midget in the trunk with a gun could have done the trick, but that's silly. Perhaps it was a ricochet...?
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A slightly different view of JFK's bloody shirt with some damage visible below the collar button.
Courtesy of FBI?
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Jack White Posted Today, 06:03 AM
QUOTE(Bernice Moore @ Oct 23 2007, 04:58 AM)
QUOTE(Jack White @ Oct 22 2007, 08:30 PM)
This thread is wandering all over the place in a manner unresponsive to
Ashton's initial proposition:
THE NECKTIE WAS IN THE PATH OF ANY BULLET FROM THE FRONT.
All messages which do not address that proposition are off-topic in my
opinion.
I am still looking for the slide I showed the HSCA in 1978 illustrating
this same thing, and will send it to Ashton when I find it, and he
may post it as a comparison to his illustration.
There is NO POSSIBILITY that a frontal bullet pierced the collar.
There is a very slight possibility that a glass sliver penetrated the
collar causing a "slit" in the fabric...but very slight.
I suggest that all responses to Ashton stick to the proposition that
a bullet did not penetrate the necktie.
Jack
*********
From Jack.....
B...
I protest that the image I asked Bernice to post has been
deleted. On my screen, the only thing below Bernice's message
is a large white square with nothing in it. It was the two slides
I showed the HSCA regarding NO HOLE IN THE TIE KNOT, in
response to Ashton's thread. I can conceive of no reason to
censor this image.
Jack
Jack, Please ask Bernice to try again.
I would be really surprised if someone had altered the post, besides, when this is done it will say someting like (in bold print, small font, at the bottom of the post): "last edit by FIRSTNAME LASTNAME time, date".
EDIT: Just viewed Bernice's post with the photo attachments from you Jack. Looks fine on my computer?!?!
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Ashton,
In your early posts on this thread you mention that the anterior neck wound was described as having been some 1.5 - 5 centimeters in diameter. I believe you want to change that to millimeter. 5 millimeters is roughly one fifth of an inch, whereas 5 centimeters is roughly 2 inches.
Tomorrow I hope to post a different picture of JFK's shirt, just to add to the thread, not to try and prove that it was a gunshot wound.
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Finding information or photos on the internet and using them on a post is fine, as long as the url is provided. I believe that for copyrighted material the copyright owner must be contacted for permission to use it.
I am getting quite fed up with reading complaints regarding this thread (I just went through 19 Pm messages most of which concerned this thread). If this continues to cause this much trouble I will lock this thread and ask fellow moderators not to re-open it.
The next step after that will be to submit a request to John Simkin to have more members placed on moderation. I have better things to do on this Forum than to review 17 complaints for this one thread.
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I don't usually do this, but I am now bumping this post and a few others, as there were moderated posts here that were not approved immediately, and they might be left in the back possibly unnoticed.
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I don't usually do this, but I am now bumping this post and a few others, as there were moderated posts here that were not approved immediately, and might be left in the back possibly unnoticed.
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Thomas H. Purvis Posted Yesterday, 01:15 PM
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...7a05?hl=en&
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm
Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound, right here.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the right of the ear about the lower third of the ear?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Near the end of his hairline?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
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Hopefully, one would not be so lacking in understanding of human anatomy that they would confuse a point which is at the lowere edge of the hairline, and immediately to the right of the lower third of the ear, with a point which is almost in the top center of the head (cowlick area).
And rest assured, I am not making reference to Roy Kellerman!
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http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arr...tml/Image03.htm
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Now!
It is hardly my fault if you can not resolve the pathological fact that the entrance wound through the SCALP of JFK, which the autopsy surgeons located, was BELOW the EOP, and that the actual entrance wound through the skull of JFK was ABOVE the EOP.
Most decent anatomy books will thoroughly explain the difference between SCALP and SKULL, as they represent completely separate parts of the human anatomy.
"Dr. Petty- Then this is the entrance wound. The one down by the margin of the hair in the back."
"Dr. Humes- Yes, sir."
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Now! If one will take the time and effort to go back and review the medical information, they will find that the shot to the head, which the autopsy surgeons all saw, (to include Roy Kellerman), entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull.
Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP.
In addition to this oblique angle of entry, the bullet left a completely tell-tale "oblique/acute" angle of penetration through the skull of JFK in what would be an upwards direction (were the head in a vertical position at the time of impact).
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There exists a bullet penetration through the skull of JFK in the vicinity of the "Cowlick", as is readily determinable by review of the available anterior/posterior X-ray.
Penetration through the scalp for this entry point is also readily determinable from the autopsy photographs, and is also located in the cowlick area of the skull.
The HSCA determined that this bullet penetration location WAS NOT where the three autopsy surgeons reported having observed the entrance into the skull which they observed, and the entrance wound throught the skull, according to the HSCA Medical Panel, did not match in measurements, those measurements which the three autopsy surgeons measured for the entrance wound which they located.
Some 10cm/4-inches below the HSCA determined entrance wound (the cowlick entry), the three autopsy surgeons (as well as others present) observed the bullet entrance through the scalp at the rear of JFK's head. This entrance location was at the edge of the hairline, and approximately even with the lower one-third of the ear lobe.
The bullet pathway thereafter passed through the soft tissuej of the neck (on what would be an upward position, were the head held erect), and thereafter struck the skull 2.5cm and slightly above the EOP, and in so doing created an extremely acute angle of penetration through the skull.
The EOP entry being some 4-inches lower than the Cowlick entry, as well as having completely different measurements for the angle of penetration through the skull.
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Time to bring in the Kindergarden students, who for the most part, can easily figure this one out!
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The "Cowlick" entry was caused by that impact of the SECOND SHOT FIRED, as is clearly observed in the Zapruder film at approximately (purported) frame# Z313.
The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC.
And, which impact occured only afyter JBC was fully down in the seats with his head in Nellie Connally's lap, thus exposing his right shoulder to the bullet after it had passed through the head of JFK.
Lastly!
Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear!
Tom,
You are making more sense here! Thanks.
Now! If one will take the time and effort to go back and review the medical information, they will find that the shot to the head, which the autopsy surgeons all saw, (to include Roy Kellerman), entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull.Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP.
In addition to this oblique angle of entry, the bullet left a completely tell-tale "oblique/acute" angle of penetration through the skull of JFK in what would be an upwards direction (were the head in a vertical position at the time of impact).
Tom, you say that the head was in a vertical position, and about this shot, that "entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP."
This is interesting.
How have you analysed the path of the bullet, considering that the head is in a "vertical" position, meaning upright? At the same time you say that "the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP."
This would mean that a bullet fired from the 6th floor TSBD, travelling in a downward angle, would hit the scalp at the hairline, traverse the soft tissue of the neck, but would then for some reason, change it's path and exit the skull at an upward angle.
I do find this analysis quite puzzling in your explanation. What changed the bullet's path?
The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC.I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other?
I do disagree with your claim that John Connally was not already wounded in his back and chest when his wife had pulled him down.
Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire.
Thanks.
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Thomas H. Purvis Posted Yesterday, 01:37 PM
Post #38
as he was trying to get the limo door to open.
Some get so close to the answer, that they fail to see it!
Tom, why do you find it necessary to reply in riddles. It would be much more meaningful to the members reading and replying to this thread if you were to explain your "facts" in the same style as you did in an earlier post on this thread.
Thomas H. Purvis Posted Today, 11:47 AMP.S. JBC has lied on several occassions in regards to the facts of the events. Now! If, and when, one figures out the exact reasons for such lies, then one just may begin to understand why:
"Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear".
Tom, why do you find it necessary to reply in riddles. It would be much more meaningful to the members reading and replying to this thread if you were to explain your "facts" in the same style as you did in an earlier post on this thread.
Thomas H. Purvis Posted Today, 12:10 PMhttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...7a05?hl=en&
1. Even were one to have access to the absolutely original Zapruder film, the "blur/Jiggle" analysis is merely a substantive indicator.
2. The witness testimonies clearly establish that the first shot struck JFK and he was seen reacting to it. The US Secret Service as well as the FBI, established this reaction as being at some point from the Z204/206 point at which JFK begins to disappear behind the Stemmons sign, and that point at approximately Z212/214.
3. The witness testimonies clearly establish that the headshot at Z313 was the SECOND SHOT in the shooting sequence, as well as establishing the impact to the head of JFK, of which the Z-film clearly shows.
4. The witness testimonies clearly establish to approximate location of the Presidential Limo at the time of the third/last/final shot. And, this location was considerably farther down Elm St. from that point of the Z313 impact.
5. James Altgens clearly states of haveing observed the result of the impact to the head of JFK by the LAST shot fired.
6. Nellie Connally clearly states of having observed as well as felt the cerebral tissue of JFK being blown all over her and JBC from the LAST SHOT fired, which she also clearly states that JBC was down laying across the seats with his head in her lap at the time of this shot.
Rest assured! There is nothing difficult in resolving exactly where each shot was fired, as well as exactly who these shots impacted upon.
Thankfully, I was never under some misconception that even the worst shot in the USMC could not hit a slow moving target at ranges which did not exceed 98 yards.
And, since LHO was a relatively good to excellent shot, I most assuredly never believed the WC's "THE SHOT THAT MISSED".
Tom, Many witnesses also stated that the last two audible shots were fired in a rapid succession, almost on top of each other, like bang, bang. How have you incorporated this witness testimony in your conclusions?
If 313 was the point of the second shot, then where is the video evidence of a third shot that sprays the occupants in the vehicle in the same style as observed in Zapruder 313?
Thanks!
Curious new photo of the TSBD
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Antti Hynonen
Lee,
You say 4th floor window. I think the cop is looking out of a 5th floor though, and a window where one of the black fellows was earlier.
Could be authentic. I wonder how the seller got this in his/her hands though.