Terry Mauro
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Posts posted by Terry Mauro
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I don't know what this means - something about the Church of the Grassy Knoll?
Of course, no one knows what this means. That's because Mr. Paul Gibson aka Mr. Paul Nolan, aka Mr. John MacMadman, aka Mr. Paul MacNolan's specific purpose here, is the spread of nonsensical disinfo, supposedly disguised as misinfo, with the intention of breaking threads, and sidetracking any legitimate work being done on forums dedicated to the study of the assassination.
This is why Shanet succinctly requested, loud and clear, for this thread, and/or any other thread [MHO] becoming contaminated by the likes of this scam-artist, be allowed to wither on the vine, or better yet, to crash and burn.
Now you know.
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Has it ever occured to anyone why there was a school book tower suspect sounds chilidish. That it may have been a young school boy related perhaps some school boy who got off Kennedys fast train to a death camp for children and shot him. Reasons like this you do not talk about it may remove JFK fictional glamour, look justified and save millions of innocent lives.. Also I was wondering dose anyone know of where I could get a writers grant to write the unwanted story the truth?
Well, well, well...
If it isn't the infamous Mr. MacNolan.
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Thanks for reading my posts and and thanks to those who have posted interesting posts. I'll see you on the Lancer Forum.
Come on, Denis. You're not going to leave me and Don to carry the picket signs, are you?
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His CIA friends are obviously working for MSN as well as Google.
...sadly they are most everywhere....BUT as you demonstrated....with enough resolve, perseverence and effort we can often trump them....
...sadly they are most everywhere....BUT as you demonstrated....with enough resolve, perseverence and effort we can often trump them....
But, to what extents will they go in order to bring down a site, such as this one?
I ask this due to the problems John has experienced regarding the incidences he was subjected to last summer, and following close upon that, in September. What other tricks of the trade will they decide to employ against the website itself, as well as the possibility of targetting any of its subscribers, or membership database?
Thanks for your comments.
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STC Award Winning Technical Writer
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Received Merit Award in Technical Publications from the Society for Technical Communication (STC)
(2001-2002 competition)
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Dave Sharp
Expertise: Specialize in software documentation: user guides, O & M guides, various engineering documents. Also write hardware manuals.
Experience: Spent half career as a technical writer, the other half as a test technician and support engineer in telecommunications industry. Have extensive experience documenting UNIX-based client-server systems running on AIX, HP-UX, VMS, Windows, and NT Server operating systems with Informix & Sybase database engines. Have also written a great deal about frame relay, packet switching and various data communications technologies.
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In other words, a highly placed intelligence hacker. How utterly convenient for his elitist clientel, which lists as follows:
Client list:
Honeywell
Spirent Communications
BancTec
Federal Reserve
Alcatel Data Networks
Keane Information Systems
MCI WorldComm
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I got the same error when I tried it, too.
Ter
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As I have pointed out several times, people who deny the Holocaust need medical help. Therefore, I believe a hospital rather than a prison is the best place for the.
However, I think present day Holocaust deniers are not really a problem. They should be seen for what they are. The people who need attacking are those who denied the Holocaust at the time it took place. These were the people who were partly responsible for the large number of people who died. I am thinking about people like Winston Churchill who refused to give the orders to bomb the transport links to the extermination camps, although he was not reluctant to order the bombing of Dresden and other civilian centres (the 60th anniversary of this war crime is coming up, I wonder how much publicity that will get in the UK media).
I am also thinking of people like Pope Pius XII who refused the request of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in September 1942 to denounce the Nazi persecution of the Jews in Europe. The nearest he came to public condemnation of the Holocaust was in his Christmas message of 1942 when he said: "Humanity owes this vow to those hundreds of thousands who, without any fault of their own, sometimes only by reason of their nationality or race, are marked down for death or gradual extinction." However, he resisted mentioning the Jews by name.
Pius XII was also criticised for his failure to act in Croatia during the Second World War. Croatia, a Catholic state, was responsible for the killing of 487,000 Orthodox Serbs, 27,000 Gypsies and around 30,000 Jews between 1941 and 1945.
Of course Pius XII was infallible and so God must have been in agreement with his silence on the Holocaust.
So much for Christianity. The established church has never been able to give a moral lead in matters of morality. It defended slavery and the slave trade because they could not find any evidence of Jesus Christ criticising it while he was alive. Maybe that was the reason why the Pope never criticised the treatment of Jews during the Second World War. Jesus failed to criticise such behaviour in any of his sermons.
Pius XII was also criticised for his failure to act in Croatia during the Second World War. Croatia, a Catholic state, was responsible for the killing of 487,000 Orthodox Serbs, 27,000 Gypsies and around 30,000 Jews between 1941 and 1945.Of course Pius XII was infallible and so God must have been in agreement with his silence on the Holocaust.
So much for Christianity. The established church has never been able to give a moral lead in matters of morality. It defended slavery and the slave trade because they could not find any evidence of Jesus Christ criticising it while he was alive. Maybe that was the reason why the Pope never criticised the treatment of Jews during the Second World War. Jesus failed to criticise such behaviour in any of his sermons.
And, let us not forget the Catholic Church's sordid history of the Inquisition in Spain, where the Jews were forced to convert to Catholicism, or burn at the stake for non-compliance. Also, Pope Pius was known to have cached away many pieces of the Jews' confiscated art collections, not to mention their jewels, which he kept under lock and key in the catacombs, beneath the streets of the Vatican in Rome, for the Nazis. What a holy guy, he was. NOT!
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Salvador Astucia has been removed from this Forum. Not because of his postings, although the moderators had to edit out his racist comments. He has been removed because he has used his website to make libellous attacks on Forum members. He is also urging people to complain to the UK Department of Education in order to get the Forum taken down (he is under the mistaken impression that this Forum is funded by the UK government). A tactic previously employed by the other supporter of free speech, Bob Vernon.
He got very angry a few weeks ago when Gibson revealed the true identity of Salvador Astucia. His research was obviously correct. As he has published pictures of several members of the Forum on his website, maybe we should publish his real name and photograph on this Forum. What do people think?
Go for it!
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On the Lancer Forum, I saw where John Ritchson reported on the performance of mercury filled bullet. I have quoted him below:
[snipped for Brevity]
What should be pointed out is that mercury is only preserved in a liquid state when controlled in a chamber and not released to surrounding air and temperature. When it is exposed, it becomes hardened and remains in the hardened state. The advantage of the mercury filled bullet is that the core of the lead or lead jacketed bullet is considerably harder and less resistant than the external mass of lead or lead and copper jacketing. The hardened mercury being in the general range of 59 Rockwell Cone and the lead being at roughly 38 Rockwell Cone in hardness.
The problem in designing a mercury filled bullet is to fill the hollowed cavity of the bullet with mecury without pockets as the mercury hardens almost immediately. The fuller the cavity with mercury composition, the greater the dispersement of the bullet.
What occurs upon impact is that the outer lead/lead with copper jacketing depresses against the much harder mercury core and the lead or jacketed lead is disrupted and fragments greatly during initial penetration. This is the exploding bullet. However, what most misunderstand, is that the explosive effect of the bullet is contained within a small cavity as the energy dispersion is compromised greatly due to the minute fragments being dispersed into a resistant cavity. In the case of a skull penetration, the brain would have considerable internal disruption, but it would have little or no effect on an exit wound, as the fragments of the bullet would lose their energy quickly due to their low weight.
I fully support John's issue with the misaligned scope.
Al
Thanks for the feedback Al and sorry for not getting back to you sooner on this but I've been offline for a while.
For the readers, Al is pointing out the general effects of an amalgamated mercury load which is what mercury does when it comes into contact with other metals such as lead, tin, antimony, silver and gold to name a few.
Such would truely be a frangible bullet and would behave much as Al describes as opposed to what I've occasionally heard called a [splatter-Round] which is an encapsulated mercury loaded bullet that behaves somewhat differently during terminal transit.
I may be wrong here but it is the latter which I've been led to believe represents the File's Scenerio and such is not something someone could whip up on a kitchen table in a few minutes. Such an encapsulation would require extreamly precise milling and sinturing techniques comparable to watchmaking.
I must confess that I feel constrained at this point to go into further detail as to the actual manufactoring of such a bullet but needless to say, in a purely hypothetical situation, such a bullet in the .300 Win. Mag. caliber made from a 220 grain Sierra Match King hollowpoint and loaded up with approx. 68 grains of IMR-4350 powder, even at 100 meters would still deliver in excess of 3,500 ft.lbs. of energy upon terminal impact, seeing as how there is only a 006.6 difference in the atomic weight of the two respective elements.
Such is the bullet of a [Make-Sure] shooter.
I will have to double check this with Craig Roberts, but if memory serves the Sierra Match King was Gunny Hathcocks bullet of choice in his old Model 70 Win.
At any rate, and be that as it may, have you had a chance to check out any of Dave Emory's poly-carbonated tipped bullets from Hornady? He has implied to me at least, that they perform on par to the hotter KTW loads with respect to penetration but produce a far greater cone of destruction. I haven't had the means to test that theory yet and was wondering if you or someone you knew might have some experience with those bullets.
Respectfully:
even at 100 meters would still deliver in excess of 3,500 ft.lbs. of energy upon terminal impact, seeing as how there is only a 006.6 difference in the atomic weight of the two respective elements.Such is the bullet of a [Make-Sure] shooter.
I will have to double check this with Craig Roberts, but if memory serves the Sierra Match King was Gunny Hathcocks bullet of choice in his old Model 70 Win.
Holy crap, John! That's really saying something.
Thanks for the lowdown.
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I totally forgot about Demjanjuk's plight, and only remember reading about his extradition to Israel to stand trial. I'm sure the news of his conviction being overturned by the Israeli Supreme Court was conveniently buried somewhere on the backt pages of the API/UPI news editions, as this would be considered less news worthy than the sensationalistic banner headlines of his original capture and deportation.
As far as my remark about Zundel being deported to Germany, I somehow got the idea that he was a German ex-patriate, who settled in Canada, later gaining citizenship. Sorry, my mistake. I still stand by my original convictions concerning this sentence being taken to the extreme, though. Compared to our own George Lincoln Rockwell, Zundel seems tame, but that's only my humble opinion.
BTW, while I was residing in Orange County, in the early 90's, I supported the ACLU, and held a subscription to The Spotlight, simultaneously for about five years. If it hadn't been for The Spotlight, I never would have found Col. Prouty.
Terry,
Right on! It's great to know another ex-Spotlight subscriber! We sound like kindred spirits; too many people get caught up in the "left" and "right" labels. That little newspaper was very influential in my thinking, and I still consider myself a populist, probably because they published so much stuff about the history of populism.
That's why we seem to be showing up at the same sites concerning the travesties of justice that we both abhor. Call me an Independent Progressive Populistic Socialist, because I believe in all of those ideals. Of course, there are those who'd
rather call me an anarchist, but that's not really where I'm coming from, except in the case of Fascist regimes, like the one running rampant and roughshod over our
constitutional rights as individuals, in D.C. today. Fascist, now that's a word that I just can't seem to put down, for some reason...But, as far as being identified with any specific group, I'd much more prefer to be labeled a revolutionary, but that wingnut Newt Gingrich, coined the term for his party's massacre of the democratic congress in 1994, and bastardized its meaning for me, forever.
I loved the Noontide Press, and bought quite a few copies of The Secret Team to pass out to my classmates and professors at CSUDH. In fact, a copy seems to burn a hole in my pocket anytime I have one in my possession. To me, Prouty is God! And, I don't need to hear any upstarts from the holy-roller peanut gallery take me to task for saying so! I could care less what they think.
Anyhow, I've always respected your views and your mindset, Don. You're very
well thought of, for your work on the assassination, as well as the political arena. And right about now, Rich would pipe up about "cutting the atta-boy posts", if I remember correctly.
So, I'd better go check the mercury-loaded bullet post before I hit the hay.
Catch you tomorrow.
Ter
Terry,
Thanks for the kind words. I feel the same way about you.
Glad we're on the same page, my friend.
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This Thread, that I started, has served its purpose. Could we just let it drop down to page two and then fade away?
Exit, Stage Left...
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I totally forgot about Demjanjuk's plight, and only remember reading about his extradition to Israel to stand trial. I'm sure the news of his conviction being overturned by the Israeli Supreme Court was conveniently buried somewhere on the backt pages of the API/UPI news editions, as this would be considered less news worthy than the sensationalistic banner headlines of his original capture and deportation.
As far as my remark about Zundel being deported to Germany, I somehow got the idea that he was a German ex-patriate, who settled in Canada, later gaining citizenship. Sorry, my mistake. I still stand by my original convictions concerning this sentence being taken to the extreme, though. Compared to our own George Lincoln Rockwell, Zundel seems tame, but that's only my humble opinion.
BTW, while I was residing in Orange County, in the early 90's, I supported the ACLU, and held a subscription to The Spotlight, simultaneously for about five years. If it hadn't been for The Spotlight, I never would have found Col. Prouty.
Terry,
Right on! It's great to know another ex-Spotlight subscriber! We sound like kindred spirits; too many people get caught up in the "left" and "right" labels. That little newspaper was very influential in my thinking, and I still consider myself a populist, probably because they published so much stuff about the history of populism.
That's why we seem to be showing up at the same sites concerning the travesties of justice that we both abhor. Call me an Independent Progressive Populistic Socialist, because I believe in all of those ideals. Of course, there are those who'd
rather call me an anarchist, but that's not really where I'm coming from, except in the case of Fascist regimes, like the one running rampant and roughshod over our
constitutional rights as individuals, in D.C. today. Fascist, now that's a word that I just can't seem to put down, for some reason...But, as far as being identified with any specific group, I'd much more prefer to be labeled a revolutionary, but that wingnut Newt Gingrich, coined the term for his party's massacre of the democratic congress in 1994, and bastardized its meaning for me, forever.
I loved the Noontide Press, and bought quite a few copies of The Secret Team to pass out to my classmates and professors at CSUDH. In fact, a copy seems to burn a hole in my pocket anytime I have one in my possession. To me, Prouty is God! And, I don't need to hear any upstarts from the holy-roller peanut gallery take me to task for saying so! I could care less what they think.
Anyhow, I've always respected your views and your mindset, Don. You're very
well thought of, for your work on the assassination, as well as the political arena. And right about now, Rich would pipe up about "cutting the atta-boy posts", if I remember correctly.
So, I'd better go check the mercury-loaded bullet post before I hit the hay.
Catch you tomorrow.
Ter
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Hi Ter:
I don't know what links you are asking about that I referred to..? I only posted that one site, and it has links at the bottom of the page..that relates to both sides if I recall correctly.... .If interested go to Google, you shall be there for many hours...Here is one that shows his photo and has a selection of documents...and articles you may be interested in...it may have been posted already??
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/z/zundel-ernst/
He has not been deported as it takes a very long time, years it seems for that process to be completed here, not like in many other countrys where people are simply picked up and put on an airlines a few weeks, days or hours whatever and the process is completed...rather quickly....at times...
I agree that should be done, and then whatever the German Gov. has in the way of proceedings will be completed and perhaps all can be concluded...and.. ended.
I understand his right to freedom of speech, as I recognize that as a right of all....though even in your country, in the States,there have been many cases, and proceedings taken upon people who are also using that right to perhaps bend and or break your laws, much on Google in that regard...
But I also see what appears to me, that when I also use that same Freedom of Speech, and state my opinion....I am labeled by some, they seem not to practice what they seem to want to preach, as their FOS and right to disagree with mine is to be accepted....and at the same time stand up for his right to such......but also put down mine and label me as such and such when I state my opinion......Confusing......
yes....wrong, well I think so, for one....But then again we see every day where people say one thing in an email and another on an open Forum, about so and so, or whatever , so why should I be confused.....
Later Ter......B
Bernice,
I hope you don't think I would ever advocate restricting your right to free speech; if I'm defending Ernst Zundel's rights, I certainly would defend yours!
I'm not sure what you mean about deporting Zundel to Germany. I believe he is a Canadian citizen. He was abducted (and that's really the only appropriate word for it) from Tennessee (had moved from Canada to escape the thought police, I guess) a few years back, and taken to Canada, where he has remained, in solitary confinement, for two years.
We in the U.S. should certainly be wary about deporting those we think are criminals of some kind. Remember the case of John Demjanjuk, a Cleveland auto worker, who had been a model member of his community for decades, before being accused by the Office of Special Investigations of being "Ivan the Terrible," responsible for the deaths of thousands in the Treblinka concentration camp. After going through a great ordeal (all of the supposed "criminals" arrested and deported by the OSI are, due to the events in question, very elderly; actually Demjanjuk was one of the younger defendants, but still not a young man), he was tried in Israel and convicted. However, showing that they were more fair and impartial than their counterparts in the U.S.A., the Israeli Supreme Court overturned the conviction and admitted what his supporters had known all along; that there was no evidence he was "Ivan the Terrible." I haven't read about Demjanjuk for many years, and am not sure if he's even still alive (he'd have to be pretty old). I do know that our government, led by the OSI, did not want him allowed back in this country, even after the Israeli Supreme Court had overturned the verdict and no one in Israel had any interest left in trying to prosecute him. Anyhow, his tragic case is another example of our government losing all sense of fairness and justice when it comes to those labeled as "nazis." Hopefully, Ernst Zundel will eventually fare better.
We in the U.S. should certainly be wary about deporting those we think are criminals of some kind. Remember the case of John Demjanjuk, a Cleveland auto worker, who had been a model member of his community for decades, before being accused by the Office of Special Investigations of being "Ivan the Terrible," responsible for the deaths of thousands in the Treblinka concentration camp. After going through a great ordeal (all of the supposed "criminals" arrested and deported by the OSI are, due to the events in question, very elderly; actually Demjanjuk was one of the younger defendants, but still not a young man), he was tried in Israel and convicted. However, showing that they were more fair and impartial than their counterparts in the U.S.A., the Israeli Supreme Court overturned the conviction and admitted what his supporters had known all along; that there was no evidence he was "Ivan the Terrible." I haven't read about Demjanjuk for many years, and am not sure if he's even still alive (he'd have to be pretty old). I do know that our government, led by the OSI, did not want him allowed back in this country, even after the Israeli Supreme Court had overturned the verdict and no one in Israel had any interest left in trying to prosecute him. Anyhow, his tragic case is another example of our government losing all sense of fairness and justice when it comes to those labeled as "nazis." Hopefully, Ernst Zundel will eventually fare better.I totally forgot about Demjanjuk's plight, and only remember reading about his extradition to Israel to stand trial. I'm sure the news of his conviction being overturned by the Israeli Supreme Court was conveniently buried somewhere on the backt pages of the API/UPI news editions, as this would be considered less news worthy than the sensationalistic banner headlines of his original capture and deportation.
As far as my remark about Zundel being deported to Germany, I somehow got the idea that he was a German ex-patriate, who settled in Canada, later gaining citizenship. Sorry, my mistake. I still stand by my original convictions concerning this sentence being taken to the extreme, though. Compared to our own George Lincoln Rockwell, Zundel seems tame, but that's only my humble opinion.
BTW, while I was residing in Orange County, in the early 90's, I supported the ACLU, and held a subscription to The Spotlight, simultaneously for about five years. If it hadn't been for The Spotlight, I never would have found Col. Prouty.
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So much of the problem is in an accurate estimation of the wounds,
on which to base our ballistics model.
The Warren commission and HSAC material is compromised and mutually
exclusive. The right temple wound is generally interpreted to be a back to
front tangential wound by the "lone gunman" supporters, but it is seen
as a front to back tangential temple wound by traditional "grassy knoll"
The Bullet into the back didn't penetrate or exit, so it wasn't super high power,
maybe it was hollow or even mercury filled?
I believe in an early forward originating .22 shot to JFK's throat, although
AL says that any shot would have been "for the Kill" --evidence points to
small caliber preliminary entry wound. Small caliber rifle from the front
The photos and X-raays apparently cover up a right temple entry wound
and a large rear lower skull exit wound. High powered rifle from the front.
Connally sustained two or three distinct bullet events, from a fairly high angle,
possibly all from the rear. His ribs, wrist and thigh damaged, but not mortally.
Possibly an Il Duce 6.5 with working sites from the rear.
Don Roberdeau's evidentiary map shows skull and bullet material downfield
from the limousine, originating from the Dallas Textile building, and Ms.
Gutierrez makes it clear that the Blood and Tissue pattern conforms to
a forward originating shot. Shots from front and back, headshots: skull forward, tissue backward.
High powered front and back fire.
Organized crime, when it comes together in an alliance to murder someone,
will often use multiple caliber weapons and multiple shots to make it clear
that more than one entity (crime family, motorcycle gang, capo) is taking
responsibility....multiple weapons, calibers and directions not only signifies a
tactical triangulation, but also multi-unit coalition of forces is involved.
The Bullet into the back didn't penetrate or exit, so it wasn't super high power, maybe it was hollow or even mercury filled?But if the bullet to the back had been a hollow point aka a dumb-dumb bullet,
mercury load or not, the characteristics of that type of a bullet would have lacerated the interior aspect of the dorsal chest cavity, wouldn't it?
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Hi Ter:
I don't know what links you are asking about that I referred to..? I only posted that one site, and it has links at the bottom of the page..that relates to both sides if I recall correctly.... .If interested go to Google, you shall be there for many hours...Here is one that shows his photo and has a selection of documents...and articles you may be interested in...it may have been posted already??
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/z/zundel-ernst/
He has not been deported as it takes a very long time, years it seems for that process to be completed here, not like in many other countrys where people are simply picked up and put on an airlines a few weeks, days or hours whatever and the process is completed...rather quickly....at times...
I agree that should be done, and then whatever the German Gov. has in the way of proceedings will be completed and perhaps all can be concluded...and.. ended.
I understand his right to freedom of speech, as I recognize that as a right of all....though even in your country, in the States,there have been many cases, and proceedings taken upon people who are also using that right to perhaps bend and or break your laws, much on Google in that regard...
But I also see what appears to me, that when I also use that same Freedom of Speech, and state my opinion....I am labeled by some, they seem not to practice what they seem to want to preach, as their FOS and right to disagree with mine is to be accepted....and at the same time stand up for his right to such......but also put down mine and label me as such and such when I state my opinion......Confusing......
yes....wrong, well I think so, for one....But then again we see every day where people say one thing in an email and another on an open Forum, about so and so, or whatever , so why should I be confused.....
Later Ter......B
Very interesting, Bern. Thanks. Especially the stuff from Skeptic.
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I am glad to see that you are back.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Ms. Terry Mauro...
... so Terry, now tell us what you REALLY think ...
-best wishes
Shanet
HAH! HAH!
Thank you, Shanet!Let's wait til I get home from work tonight, before we launch into that one.
Warm regards,
Ter
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Great question, Terry!
What is the signature of a mercury load's exit ?
A grapefruit sized avulsion?
No Specific Pattern?
The mercury load theme was used in both the film EXECUTIVE ACTION
and THE DAY OF THE JACKAL, so there is quite a bit of speculation on this angle...
also, isn't this the kind of thing Mitch Werbell could have provided in 1963?
Or would it point to a joint agency lab?
Terry and Shanet,
Any compromised bullet, whether it be a jacketed soft point, hollow point or mercury or other foreign material filled bullet (in that order of comprimization and fragmentation) will release it's energy rather quickly into the cavity into which it was fired into. Its integrity will be compromised and fragmentation will occur and this fragmentation reduces the velocity and therefore the sustained velocity and consistent energy dispersion within the cavity. While a fragmenting bullet will do considerable internal damage within the cavity through eviceration of soft tissue and arteries, it does not sustain its trajectory and have consistent energy dispersion within the cavity that would result in a massive blowout at the point of exit. This is only achieved through a full metal jacketed bullet that has 1800fps or greater velocity to create an internal wound cavity that is depresses the internal fluids and material due to the energy dispersion. It retains enough velocity to carry this energy disruption out of the exit.
IMO with the headwound, we are looking at a FMJ bullet in the range of 2400fps or greater that initially penetrated shallow into the cavity. This is why we have the flap and the extensive exit wound and forced reaction rearward of the head.
Al
Thanks Al, thanks Shanet.
I always knew it had to have been a FMJ that hit Kennedy, but I'm also familiar with hollow point damage and wanted to know what the comparisons between a mercury loaded hollow point were, as opposed to a regular hollow point, taking into consideration the grain and/or weight of the load, as well as the similarities or differences it would make in the exit wound appearance.
Thanks again for you patience, guys. I'm off to work for now, and will look forward to your reply. That's what I love about Al and John, their experience with regard to the physics and application involving the field of ballistics, which also happens to be a hobby and/or extracurricular activity of my own.
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In response to some emails about my theory, I am posting my interpretation
of all this from three months ago.
I think John Simkins and James Richards have found the tactics employed,
and this theory may well provide the strategy behind the events in Dallas:
History, one thousand years hence, will see a shorthand record of the state-approved coup d’etat.
The future’s historians will see a group of World War II-era presidents, followed by the assassination of President Kennedy and right then, almost simultaneously, the rapid ratification of the twenty-fifth amendment to the United States Constitution. Then the futile Southeast Asian land war, the Civil Rights Acts and urban race riots.
Other details about the decades will recede, one thousand years from now, the Beatles, maybe, a walk on the Moon - just shorthand survives - in the future historians’ understanding of our United States history.
I won’t dig out my T.B. MacCaulay, my Thomas Carlyle, my Tott, Elton, or my dusty old Edward Gibbon for you, but suffice it to say, as one who has read political history, that kings and emperors wrote and re-wrote the record of their illegitimate ascensions, at will and after the fact, thoughout all of our recorded history, across the world.
To believe in them makes you a positivist, a sucker, a naïve believer in progress and the State’s eternal accuracy, honesty and diligence.
I will not footnote or add a bibliography to this piece. The information you all are aware of, it is public and the facts are well known. I believe the theme, the thesis, the theory I present here follows from the facts, both inductively and deductively. Inductively, it makes sense of all the specifics, all the questionable government acts - and deductively it follows from this general principle: People in power tend to cover their tracks when they arrive illegitimately.
Historically, however one got into office, if he was finally. Emperor or King or President, it was legal. It had to be “legal.”
Now in the civil republic that we call the United States, in fall of 1963, certain forms were followed and certain associations were formed.
Acts were committed that were apparently crimes, but they were actually quite “legal,” under the secret regulations and security clearances then in existence, inside the Pentagon and White House, and then made legal again -
The trace of the actions and the identities of the actors are found in a few paragraphs of Constitutional forgiveness, the Twenty-Fifth Amendment, written in 1965 and ratified in 1967. A kind of ‘killing under color of law’ theory emerges from the study of the period, from the biographies and history of the U.S. leadership in the 1960s.
Much hinges on the Cabinet. The 25th amendment tells us that all or part of the Cabinet majority, with the Vice President also on board, shall have the power to decide on the incapacity of the sitting president. This means the role of Treasury Secretary C.D. Dillon becomes crucial in the deed and the aftermath. By deed and aftermath I mean principally, the Dealey Plaza ambush and the Warren Commission’s investigation. Read the twenty-fifth amendment, Vice President Lyndon Johnson is in there, and so is Treasury Secretary C. Douglass Dillon.
The Treasury Secretary is the top of the chain of command for the Secret Service. If Occam’s Razor points to too many suspects, then a unity forms from that, a super-ordinate explanation, an over-arching scheme, both simple and comprehensive. All is explained by the scenario described, in 1965, in the Twenty-Fifth Amendment.
The subsequent rationale, or ex post facto legislation - which ratifies a change in government after the fact, this technique is as old as the written language.
Lyndon Baines Johnson, Douglass Dillon, J. Edgar Hoover, the powerful Dulles brothers, these cabinet members and cabinet-level advisors to Kennedy and Johnson. I think they are mentioned in the U.S. Constitution. They could decide upon the President’s incapacity to perform as commander.
The militant reactionary political enemies of John Kennedy formed powerful nodes of power in the web of secret defense interests. It is the unspeakable reality of American political violence which is at historical issue. In 1963 mercenaries and Mafiosos were engaged full-time in the Caribbean and along the Gulf Coast of the U.S., that traditionally unstable US tropical southern border (since Dutch, Spanish and French times, and the war of 1899). Cuba, a right wing mob casino paradise, was lost to the radical, Fidel Castro. John Kennedy failed to initiate the armed air invasion plans the CIA had hoped for and the Bay of Pigs failed miserably.
Now we all know that John Kennedy was a charismatic and intellectually bright man, but he had a strong egocentric aspect, and orgies of all kinds generally followed closely on his person and his staff. After spending a lifetime considering critically the scope and magnitude of what I know and what I know I know, through both cognition and metacognition, deductive and inductive reasoning, published and private sources:
I find it was an inside job, it was a government job, and it was put up to important people as a fait accompli, “a done deal.”
The assassination was presented to Lyndon Johnson, C.D. Dillon, J. Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon, as a done deal, a fait accompli, before and after the fact.
This was done by the spies, Kennedy’s enemies. The militant force used the security mechanisms in place to declare John Fitzgerald Kennedy unfit for security clearances and sensitive positions of authority.
Someone in defense intelligence or the CIA circa 1963 took this type of intercepted intelligence to a higher level, 'Well, Jack’s now takin’ the Sandoz doses with Cord Meyer’s wife, LSD thing they’re on now, he’s crazy now, totally mentally unfit do to anything as commander in chief, now he’s clinically, criminally, chronically insane, according to Caption b subsection A, paragraph E, and so on …'
I paraphrase, and form a theoretical scenario. My theory doesn’t hinge on Jack Kennedy using LSD, or having syphilis, or even suffering from Addison’s adrenal deficiency. My theory hinges on the willingness of the spies, his enemies, to declare him incompetent, and I think the theory is a reasonable conclusion.
And so that was that, from the Plans Directorate and 111th they scrambled to work, and the angry Cuban Alpha 66 group did the heavy lifting, with their partners, the mob. Douglass Dillon, Kennedy’s inexplicable choice for Treasury secretary, was the ultimate head of the Secret Service in 1963. The fix was in, and it was “legal,” due to incapacity.
Why Jack Kennedy made Clarence D. Dillon the head of the U.S. Treasury, no one will ever know. Robert Lovett had turned it down. Dillon, Reed & Co. was a Wall Street institution and C.D.Dillon was a sort of late model Andrew Mellon for President Kennedy. An attempt at bipartisan Cabinet leadership, and a sop to the right. Anyway, C.D. Dillon ran the 1963 Secret Service, a branch of Treasury then, and he and the intelligence paramilitary put the thing into place, and then they covered up the assassination with the Warren Commission and the Twenty Fifth Amendment to the Constitution.
Nothing else explains the route, the failure to prepare, the lack of running boards on Jack’s presidential limousine. Why no running boards, why drive at walking speed, why the slow detour? We can’t blame a building or a fence or a knoll, people did this. They think they committed no crime. But they implicated themselves in the apologia, which is the 25th Amendment.
Lyndon Baines Johnson, who was elevated to the now compromised (or politically constrained) Presidency, was sitting in the Oval Office while the 25th Amendment went through. After that Cabinet members and a V.P. had the power to incapacitate the President.
This organic legislation, a fundamental addendum to the republic’s Constitution, implicates Clarence Douglass Dillon (whose name was on the currency in the 1960’s), the amendment indicts Vice President Johnson and other cabinet level advisors in the defense and domestic security web, it explains the acts of Johnson’s friend and protector, J. Edgar Hoover, and possibly Sect. Robert MacNamara, and possibly Maxwell Taylor, the 1964 ambassador to Saigon.
This top-down scheme allows for the coordinated order of events seen in the event and its aftermath. The amount of troubling illogic in the murder and all the bizarre aftermath points to a Program, a Program approved by at least a few heads of Cabinet.
Jack was a playboy, a movie star, a total wild man. The people that lived up his rear-end, taping him, snapping pictures and listening in, they caught him being very naughty, and they took the case upstairs. Incapacity. Dulles got on board with all his baggage. The plan came off the books, the plane was off down the runway, and at Dealey Plaza the deal went down...
In the future, this will be the conventional wisdom, and all the rough consensus about a government conspiracy points toward this explanation, the “legal” model.
Sources? The Twenty-fifth amendment, that’s about as primary as you get, and the Warren Commission, and all it suggests, and neglects, that is primary, that is substantive, that is contemporary.
Affidavits of the assassins and the assassin’s helpers, and the investigative reporting of Seymour Hersh, and the late Mary Pinchot Meyer, and Dorothy Kilgallen, and the behavior of the 1963 Secret Service in the primary document, a color film by Abraham Zapruder, and the photos of the railroad overpass crowded with people over Kennedy’s bloody head…is that a primary source, a film of a walking speed open-car ambush?
The top guys did it. Those that control the FBI, the Naval Hospital, military intelligence, and secret service would never have co-operated without orders from higher-ups. I present a coherent, compelling, cohesive hypothesis, a theory to explain the facts.
In Dallas, Mr. Barnes was there, and Mr. McCord, Eugene Brading and Jimmy Files, Niccolletti the hit man, Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, Johnny Roselli, and Dave Morales, Lansdale the ugly American, he was there, and all together, so it looks like a government job, with mob contractors participating, similar to what was planned for Castro.
I’m a patriotic American and I wish the current officeholders of the Secret Service, Pentagon and the Treasury well, I really do.
But in 1963 the Republican Treasury Secretary C.Douglass Dillon was a responsible party. Lyndon Johnson was a responsible party. John Edgar Hoover was in authority. Alan Dulles and the Cabell brothers were responsible. Ed Clark was implicated. Tracy Barnes was implicated. William Harvey was implicated. Dave Morales was implicated. Clint Murchison was implicated. H.L. Hunt was implicated. David Attlee Phillips and Desmond Fitzgerald were involved in the murder, and they were gung-ho patriotic Americans.
The team of mercenaries and hitmen that had worked under federal control in the late 50’s were also implicated; Sam Giancanna, Mr. Marcello, Mr. Trafficante, the infamous Johnny Rosselli, Mr. Niccoletti and his driver Jimmy Files, they were all implicated. And the medical crews, and the FBI, and the Dallas police, who failed to protect the suspect. Oswald, who was lost to history, made one substantive statement “I am a patsy.” His career in counter-intelligence is evidence for my theory.
A highly-classified document once existed, it was the authorization for the executive action. Incapacity (with the eye dotted and the tee crossed) of the Commander in Chief; JFK was stripped of his security clearances, and his removal was officially authorized.
But in the Constitution itself is another rapidly written, but after the fact, rationale. This is an ex-post facto, presidential ascension, legitimacy rationale, a document like the ones we have seen so many times in British and Roman history. It was a national security crisis…and John Kennedy was clinically insane, from drugs. Kennedy was declared clinically incapacitated and was stripped of his security clearance, because he had indulged in the psychedelic LSD-25, which the CIA had introduced for mind control and human experimentation in the Chemical Warfare Program MK/ULTRA. The same agencies had spied on Kennedy and discovered this mistake.
The Twenty-fifth amendment gives cover to the events of November, 1963; especially since the Vice President and some of his Cabinet level advisors were still in power in 1965 when it was composed, and even in 1967, when it became law, ratified in “the summer of love.”
Why this sudden rush to radically re-write the rules for a Presidential succession? Dallas and the unusual ascension of Lyndon Baines Johnson was the motivation.
What laws or rules drive good historical theory? Theories explaining evidence must be concise, compelling, coherent, cohesive. The simplest scheme possible to explain all the known facts and misunderstandings. Occam’s razor, or the law of parsimony should drive theory derived from evidence. Keep it simple stupid. No bells and whistles.
So with the Kennedy assassination, a simple answer, an explanation, at last. But damn it is hard to swallow, despicable murder…like Julius Ceasar, or Alexander II.
This was a story of top-down orders, from the VP and a Cabinet bloc. The Commander-in-chief had suffered “incapacity.” During the Cold War, involving the Cuban mercenaries, and secret nuclear operations…
Johnson, Hoover, C.D. Dillon, Alan Dulles, the Warren Commission and the Twenty-Fifth Amendment to the Constitution, how does all this fit together? A top down, top level security crisis, an executive action, a non-crime, a “legal” event.
May God in Heaven bless our martyred leader, John F. Kennedy, and God protect us all.
Thank you for that excellent synopsis, Shanet. I never really thought about it like that before.
I'm glad to see you're perusing the forum whilst the rest sit mesmerized in front of their plasma screens, MKUltra'd by the Stupid Bowl. Whoever thought this one up had to have been a Skull and Boner. Think about it. What a fantastic example of
mass hypnosis used for the specific purpose of controlling multitudes of people who actually should be up in arms against the very descendents of the assassins, now sitting like lame ducks in office. But instead, would rather not think about the
harsh realities of life, such as what's really driving the U.S. economy, or that the next target in the war against Iraq may be Syria. What do they care? As long as they've got the gas to feed their gas-guzzling SUV's, who gives a rat's ass about who may be getting in the U.S.'s way, as they continue to cut a large swath right through the Middle East, to stake their oil claims. The Bush administration thinks they're Alexander The Great, reincarnated.
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On the Lancer Forum, I saw where John Ritchson reported on the performance of mercury filled bullet. I have quoted him below:
The Terminal Ballistic Effects of a Mercury loaded bullet is a terrible thing indeed.
You must understand that I can't go into any construction details without violating certain provisions of the Patriot Act with respect to providing information on a public forum that could be of possible use to those who are designated Terrorists by the Department of Homeland Security ie. I'm going to be treading a fine-line as it is.
Suffice to say that with an atomic number of 80 and an atomic weight of 200.59,
Mercury is pretty much on par with bullet lead which is usually alloyed with varying amounts of tin, and antimony, which lowers the mass of pure lead. Since mercury is liquid in its' natural state it posesses charactistics which render it truely devestating upon Terminal Impact with a live body. A semi-jacketed hollowpoint bullet so loaded will retain its initial mass and momentum. But, the mercury being liquid will escape the confines of the bullet during the mushrooming stage and expand so quickly as to in effect, expload, creating a hydrostatic shock zone of destruction far greater than the bullet alone. Such a projectile being properly made if shot into the torso will virtually liquify the internal organs and if impacting a human head it can quite literally expload that head. All of this of course occuring in milliseconds of time. The Mercury Load is the MAKE SURE bullet of the professional assassin and requires a good deal of skill in its manufacture_not something that can be whipped-up in a few minutes on a kitchen table. Such a bullet must be milled and loaded to tolerances far greater then can be decerned by the human eye. Otherwise, it will quickly become unstable in flight and all hope of downrange accuracy is lost, even at a range of 100" or so. In fact, an improperly constructed Mercury Load can and under the right conditions will cause a catastrophic instability inside of the weapon's barrel with an outcome that will definently be felt by the shooter. So folks, do not try this at home! Besides being illegal in many places it is damn dangerous to play around with.
With respect to the NAA Analysis conducted by Dr. Guinn on CE-399
and the recovered bullet fragments I find no mention of the presence of Mercury or Carbon the latter which would have been present on this bullet had it been fired through any organic artifact including a human head. Also, lead itself possess several isotopes allowing it to be physically connected to a particular area due to the distribution of these isotopes. The technology for making such determinations were in place well before 1963. I find the absence of such determinations in Dr. Guinn's Report disturbing to say the least.
As to the scope issue:
Once a scope is mounted and sighted in it cannot be physically manipulated in any way without resighting. even an incidental bump or knock is sufficient to cause it to lose its' line of sight. When the sic Experts at Edgewood Arsenal evaluated the alledged JFK killshot Carcano they found that LHO's aimpoint would have to have been some 14 inches off target.
Respectfully:
John Ritchson
What should be pointed out is that mercury is only preserved in a liquid state when controlled in a chamber and not released to surrounding air and temperature. When it is exposed, it becomes hardened and remains in the hardened state. The advantage of the mercury filled bullet is that the core of the lead or lead jacketed bullet is considerably harder and less resistant than the external mass of lead or lead and copper jacketing. The hardened mercury being in the general range of 59 Rockwell Cone and the lead being at roughly 38 Rockwell Cone in hardness.
The problem in designing a mercury filled bullet is to fill the hollowed cavity of the bullet with mecury without pockets as the mercury hardens almost immediately. The fuller the cavity with mercury composition, the greater the dispersement of the bullet.
What occurs upon impact is that the outer lead/lead with copper jacketing depresses against the much harder mercury core and the lead or jacketed lead is disrupted and fragments greatly during initial penetration. This is the exploding bullet. However, what most misunderstand, is that the explosive effect of the bullet is contained within a small cavity as the energy dispersion is compromised greatly due to the minute fragments being dispersed into a resistant cavity. In the case of a skull penetration, the brain would have considerable internal disruption, but it would have little or no effect on an exit wound, as the fragments of the bullet would lose their energy quickly due to their low weight.
I fully support John's issue with the misaligned scope.
Al
What occurs upon impact is that the outer lead/lead with copper jacketing depresses against the much harder mercury core and the lead or jacketed lead is disrupted and fragments greatly during initial penetration. This is the exploding bullet. However, what most misunderstand, is that the explosive effect of the bullet is contained within a small cavity as the energy dispersion is compromised greatly due to the minute fragments being dispersed into a resistant cavity. In the case of a skull penetration, the brain would have considerable internal disruption, but it would have little or no effect on an exit wound, as the fragments of the bullet would lose their energy quickly due to their low weight.Hi Al,
Is that pertaining to only mercury filled hollow points? If so, what would we expect the exit wound to look like, in comparison to what the exit wound from a regular hollow point looks like?
Thanks,
Ter
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The analogy you made to McCarthyism was right on; if you look at the way "holocaust deniers" are dealt with, you will find the same kind of name-calling and association by guilt. Just replace "commie," "pinko," "red" and "fellow traveler" with "holocaust denier,""anti-semite,""hater" and "neo-nazi."
The situation with regards to muslims in the U.K. is certainly no better in the U.S. Look at Guantanimo Bay! But we are at "war," one with no apparent end in sight, and so everyone named Mohammed or Nasser is a potential member of Al Queda.
But these are not legitimate analogies and do not stand up to rational comparison.
Neo Nazis are not "identified" and dealt with in the same way as the victims of McCarthyism were. .
Young Muslims banged up without charge in inhuman conditions by a repulsive Whitehouse regime have absolutely nothing in common with anti semitic historians getting into trouble with the law in Canada or elsewhere.
Andy,
What alleged "commie" or "pinko" was ever dealt with as harshly as Ernst Zundel has been dealt with? A Hollywood blacklist is one thing; solitary confinement is another. This doesn't minimize what many liberals went through in the 1950s, but at least most of those who were alleged to be "commies" had the sympathy of many liberals, in the entertainment industry and academia. No one appears to have any sympathy for the likes of Ernst Zundel, except his fellow historical revisionists.
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Keep in mind that entire families were ruined by the "Hollywood black list". Writers could no longer work, some killed themselves. Their crime? Often marching or being in some way associated with a peace movement!!
Woody Allen did a wonderful movie about 30 years ago on this outrageous historical "event". I believe it was called "The Front". See it.
Dawn
Well then, we'll just have to continue marching our little butts off and continue our peaceful little protests, in order that the same McCarthy-ite mindset never gets to take another foothold in the American consciousness again, now won't we?
I don't know about you, but I've been marching and protesting since I was 19 years old. In fact, it's seems to have been a regular fixture or process involved in, the coming of age to the maturation of, my life for the last 35 - 40 years. I don't intend to back down any time soon, either.
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The History of the Zundel case in Canada and the United States.
Please read all, if interested......
I am very proud of Canada..for taking such a stand, and opening itself to this type of criticism, to protect all of it's citizens....
http://www.adl.org/learn/Ext_US/zundel.asp...d=2&item=zundel
Hi Bern,
I've read the link you posted. It's from the ADL, an arm of the JDL, which is an Israeli intelligence gatherer. Please post the links to the other articles you mentioned, as I would like to read it from a less biased viewpoint.
I'm not advocating this person's mindset. It goes against everything I stand for.
But, I do believe that a sentence of solitary confinement is quite draconian for someone who hasn't committed a homicidal act, or one of assault, battery, or
torture. Why not deport him to Germany, where he'd be among more kindred spirits?
The Anti-Defamation League/Jewish Defense League is not delivering an unbiased account, especially when their specific purpose is to police those, such as Zundel, who run counter to their interpretation of how the world should be run, to the point of having them jailed for exercising their free speech privileges.
You can send them off to my home, if you'd like.
Thanks.
from the little beggar to the south
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The analogy you made to McCarthyism was right on; if you look at the way "holocaust deniers" are dealt with, you will find the same kind of name-calling and association by guilt. Just replace "commie," "pinko," "red" and "fellow traveler" with "holocaust denier,""anti-semite,""hater" and "neo-nazi."
The situation with regards to muslims in the U.K. is certainly no better in the U.S. Look at Guantanimo Bay! But we are at "war," one with no apparent end in sight, and so everyone named Mohammed or Nasser is a potential member of Al Queda.
But these are not legitimate analogies and do not stand up to rational comparison.
Neo Nazis are not "identified" and dealt with in the same way as the victims of McCarthyism were. .
Young Muslims banged up without charge in inhuman conditions by a repulsive Whitehouse regime have absolutely nothing in common with anti semitic historians getting into trouble with the law in Canada or elsewhere.
Andy,
What alleged "commie" or "pinko" was ever dealt with as harshly as Ernst Zundel has been dealt with? A Hollywood blacklist is one thing; solitary confinement is another. This doesn't minimize what many liberals went through in the 1950s, but at least most of those who were alleged to be "commies" had the sympathy of many liberals, in the entertainment industry and academia. No one appears to have any sympathy for the likes of Ernst Zundel, except his fellow historical revisionists.
Don,
It seems that the clear-cut facts regarding Zundel's imprisonment in a state of solitary confinement regarding his "not so" free-expression, in challenging the validity of what may have been the purpose of Auschwitz's gas chambers, may be over-shadowed by the emotional backlash that has become similar to a knee-jerk response by society-at-large. While I, as well as most of my generation, and I say this with all due respect for those who've suffered the atrocities, have been made witness to the horrors via the numerous televised accounts, as well as the actual photographic footage taken by the liberators of the death camps. I am also acutely aware of the impact these visual scenes have had on my conscience as a human being, and as witness, to that which has been entered into the historical record.
I, much as yourself, regard this imprisonment as a violation of human rights taken to the other extreme. I fail to see the danger Zundel proposes, as far as fear of incitement to riot, or advocation of the mass rounding up of ethnic groups with the re-instatement of the concentration camps. In fact, I view this as a direct insult to the intelligence of the Canadian people as a whole, and a direct affront on their ability to be trusted to make cognizant decisions on their own. Solitary confinement for expressing an opinion? Then, I assure you, there are a whole lot of us down here in the lower forty-eight, whom I fear, would thus be so confined. Perhaps, our brethren to the north may not have had the opportunity to totally absorb the implications of how all of this may impact their future ability to make informed, or collective decisions, and their right to remain doing as such.
The emotional outrage elicited by a subject such as The Holocaust, will continue to cloud any future debate that runs counter to the historical record, even if such a debate were to challenge that "the gas chambers were merely de-lousing facilities, that ended up being responsible for the deaths of those who were elderly, or infirmed, or those whose immune systems had been extremely compromised by the harsh living conditions they were subjected to, in these camps". Millions still died, regardless of whether, directly or indirectly, due to insecticides, or gas, or starvation, be it Jew, Gypsy, Pole, or other ethnic group not recognized by the
"German Aryan" ideology as to that which constituted "a pure, white, race".
Every picture tells a story. And, as an eight-year-old, I was subjected to many nightmares after witnessing what I had seen chronicled on television of Auschwitz,
Dachau, and Bergen-Belsen. And even though I reserve the right "to never forget", I also reserve the right to dissent, whether through the art of discourse,
or peaceful, public demonstration. The erosion of the right to express an opinion
is still considered an infringement of The Bill of Rights, at least it still was, here in
the U.S. Therefore, what has taken place with respect to Canadian law, I can only view as a threat to the Constitutional rights of those of us, here in the States.
And, while I realize how backward and loutish our system may be, how corrupt and derelict our government is to allow itself to be bought and sold by the very
entities we search out to nail to the cross for assassinating JFK, I still reserve the
right to express my difference of opinion and make known my abhorrence to this Nazi Fascist Oligarchal regime, fraudulently placed in power in D.C., along with its bogus Federal Reserve International Banking Cartel, and its Wall Street Gambling houses. And, I also reserve the right to describe the methods I'd personally choose
to "ice", "liquidate", "eliminate", or "annihilate" them all from the face of the earth, without fear of being thrown into solitary confinement, or some other form of human rights harrassment.
Any person, or country, enacting a law proclaiming that an individual's right to express oneself in any form of dissent, or divergence from what is deemed to be "the norm", or what is considered to be "politically correct", and, that "said" individual deserves to be thrown in jail, exiled to Siberia, or worse, is someone who no longer thinks with an independent mind and therefore, deserves to live in an autocracy where they can be told exactly what to think, what to do, how to do it, when to do it, and thus be devoid of any urge or passion to ever think in a creative or critical manner, again. Utopia.
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It is still possible to bring people to court for murders committed in the 1960s. Here is an article that appeared in the Guardian at the weekend.
Forty years after three civil rights workers were killed on a dirt road in Mississippi on a night that came to symbolise the racial hate of the American south, an elderly leader of the Ku Klux Klan appeared in court yesterday to be formally charged with their murder.
In proceedings interrupted by a bomb threat, Edgar Ray Killen, appeared handcuffed and in an orange prison jump suit to plead not guilty to three counts of murder.
Now 79, Killen was a preacher and a local Klan leader in Neshoba County, Mississippi when the killings took place in 1964.
The FBI identified him as the ringleader of the gang that ran the three civil rights workers off of a lonely road, killed them, and hid their corpses in an earthen dam.
For civil rights activists in the town of Philadelphia, Mississippi, the case against Killen was a bitter-sweet moment.
"If you believe in God you always know you have to wait," said Jewel McDonald, who was a teenager that summer, and whose mother and brother were beaten outside their black church only days before the murders.
She lamented the 39-year delay in prosecuting the killers of the three civil rights workers, but added she was happy that justice was finally being done.
The immediate target of the mob's murderous rampage on that night in 1964 was Michael Schwerner, 24, a white New Yorker and an experienced organiser, who was investigating the burning of the black church and the attack on Ms McDonald's mother.
James Chaney, 21, an African-American from Mississippi, and Andrew Goodman, 20, a New Yorker who had arrived in Neshoba County barely a day before, also died. Chaney was beaten to death; the two white men were each killed with a single shot to the chest.
The murders, which were dramatised in the 1988 film Mississippi Burning, loomed over an era of lynch mobs, cross burnings and church bombings.
They sealed the state's reputation as a haven for racists - as did the authority's refusal to bring criminal charges for four decades. But the killings also prompted an outpouring of support for the civil rights movement.
After intervention from the federal government, Mr Killen and 18 others were put on trial for civil rights violations in 1967.
Seven men, including the county's deputy sheriff, Cecil Price, received jail terms, but Mr Killen went free after a lone member of the jury admitted she could not stomach the idea of sending a preacher to prison.
And a small town struggled with the legacy of those murders. For the town's African-American residents, that meant living in a state of constant fear.
"It was a scary time growing up down here, not knowing if you were looking at someone who did it, and you didn't know," Ms McDonald said. "The fear was always there. When I went away, I tried to block it, but every time I talk about it, I go into tears because I see my mum and brother beaten, and all that stuff comes back. I think a lot of people are still afraid because people weren't talking."
A year ago, however, a newly elected state attorney general, Jim Hood, reopened the long, cold investigation into the killings and decided there was enough evidence to go ahead with charges.
Yesterday, vindicating long years of campaigning by a multiracial coalition known as the Philadelphia Committee, Mr Killen was at last charged with murder. Seven other men implicated in the murders are still alive, and local authorities said further charges were expected.
For Fenten DeWeese, a local lawyer and a member of the Philadelphia Committee who was in court yesterday, news of Mr Killen's arrest on Thursday arrived as a revelation.
"It was like the hair stood up on the back of my neck," he said. "I was 15 years old when it happened, and as a lifelong resident it's been a very dominating historical fact. This was domestic terrorism what happened here, and this community has been struggling with this ever since."
In the view or Mr DeWeese and Ms McDonald, the state's effort to bring Mr Killen to justice is evidence of a new Mississippi that has emerged from the painful detritus of the old racist order. Not everyone in Neshoba County agrees - or even accepts the idea of change.
"After 40 years to come back and do something like this is ridiculous ... like a nightmare," Billy Wayne Posey, one of the men convicted at the civil rights trial in 1967, told the Associated Press.
But others believe putting Mr Killen on trial is essential to the town's healing and for laying a shameful past to rest.
"The murder is older than me," said Jennifer Hathorne, who helps organise the annual memorial to the three murdered civil rights activists at the Mount Zionist United Methodist church, the successor to the church destroyed by racists in 1964.
"People have passed on now, but they would be proud to see that this is happening after all these years.
"The community felt really bad about what happened because they were coming here to help us, not just us, but the whole state of Mississippi."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/st...1385718,00.html
In 1960, my biology teacher at New Rochelle High School, New Rochelle, N.Y.,
was Mrs. Schwerner. She was the one person who greatly influenced my life and continues to shape my thoughts to this present day. If there was anybody in this world who is responsible for guiding me and encouraging me to become what I am today, it was this wonderful woman. She would let four of us students come back to the lab after school and do further dissections on frogs and unborn piglets, not because we were required to, but because we asked permission to. I had only one other teacher in high school, Miss White, English Literature, whom I also greatly admired. But, Mrs. Schwerner was by far, the most advanced, the most progressive, and far superior to all the rest.
In June of 1964, while studying the New York Times reportage of the Warren Commission findings, I happened to turn the pages and came across the article regarding a Pelham Manor, N.Y. Civil Rights Activist found dead in shallow grave,
along with two others in Mississippi. It stated the names of Michael Schwerner,
Andrew Goodman, and James Chaney, and the the name of the town from which the news was being wired, Meridian, Mississippi. I immediately got on the phone and called the Schwerner's, and wanted to express my condolences to my
beloved mentor, Mrs. Schwerner. But, because of her overwhelming grief, she was not able to come to the phone. Mr. Schwerner, in spite of his great loss, still took the time to ask how my family was doing, and to tell me that Mrs. Schwerner often asked of me, from our mutual acquaintances, and from my younger brother, who also attended New Rochelle High School.
Therein lies the rub, in that summer June - July of 1964, besides the skewed and
dubious findings presented by the Warren Commission's final report, there was also the egregious loss to my favorite instructor, Mrs. Schwerner. And, because of these acts of betrayal, I have never trusted the American government to be anything more than a tool to be wielded by the "so-called", blue-blooded, aristocratic, industrial-corporate, W.A.S.P.'s, who are the actual robber-barons
who've set the structure for their own realization of "Manifest Destiny", which is
still allive and well, but masquerading under the guise "global democracy".
It is truly a pity to witness how de-evolved the human race has managed to back-peddle itself since 1963. You would have thought we'd have learned something from all of the blood that's been shed, by now. By bringing this perpetrator to
task, forty years after the fact, seems nothing more than anticlimatic.
Sure, you can rebut that, at least they're going to be made to pay for the crime.
But, IMO this is justice applied a little too late, and for all we know, the people who
should have been able to witness "justice being done", may have passed on at this point in time. Maybe Michael's wife might appreciate it, but who needs a festering wound to be re-opened at this late date in their lives? Closure, you say? Surely, the citizens of the United States, if there are any who remember, or even care to remember, may feel the hand of justice has swung to their side, but that remains to be seen now, doesn't it?
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Dixie and Dawn and Dave and forum,
By the way I didn't tell anyone that Dixie wrote to me and would like to know how that got out....????
Not by me. I guess I had better go back and take a look at the email.
I remember what it said and it didn't strick me as bad or disconforting at all.
So, attack Dixie because she wrote to me Judyth? Make it a slurr. Sorry Judyth but this doesn't cut it anymore? Does it?
Nancy Eldreth Jan 7 2005, 01:55 AM Post #40
Advanced Member
Group: Members
Posts: 207
Joined: 13-September 04
Member No.: 1487
Thank you Dixie for what you wrote to me privately.Looks that way.
I have another thread and keep adding to it which even you saw and Judyth avoids the thread.
Maybe added to both threads she will answer and maybe not.
I am afraid if she avoids those questions then Judyth has exposed herself as a fraud and I will always know this. I was one to totally believe her SO MUCH.
Losing my faith in that now. Maybe it is me but everyone tells me NO IT ISN"T YOU IT IS JUDYTH BAKER.
I even told Judyth that someone told me privately that is also on this forum and won't give the name out for confidentaly that they too knew that Mary Farrell was big trouble and about somethings not right about Lancer and Debra. I won't tell who it was that told me this. However I stated to Judyth this fact alone COULD BACK YOUR STORY.
What did Judyth DO
WISH ME WELL.
OK
Fine Judyth take it or leave it but some people do read some of my posts.
I know for a fact as soon as I posted the thread that Gary Mack was online on Simkins and was into that posts of which you refuse to answer.
It was fast too. Now, Judyth it is hopeful that you do answer me.
GOOD LUCK NOW and I wish you well.
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Biography: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1632
Has it ever occured to anyone why there was a school book tower suspect sounds chilidish. That it may have been a young school boy related perhaps some school boy who got off Kennedys fast train to a death camp for children and shot him. Reasons like this you do not talk about it may remove JFK fictional glamour, look justified and save millions of innocent lives.. Also I was wondering dose anyone know of where I could get a writers grant to write the unwanted story the truth?
The knoll fiction
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Word is, that either MacAdams himself, or one of his bootlicking lackeys will post on the various sites with this exact same drivel. And, don't ask me to name my sources because I don't believe I'm obligated to. I see you choose to refer to him as "scholarly", but I don't feel he deserves the honor of being addressed as such. Not, for his curriculum concerning the assassination.
I view him as a biased pedagogue, fostering the lone nut and Warren Commission Big Lie, the same as I find fault with Ken Rahn's equally inadequate and biased presentation. Where are the two sides of the coin supposedly being presented by these charlatans? And, we send our children to schools of higher learning only to have their capacity to think logically and critically, undermined by these pompous
excuses for "scholars"? But, that's merely my humble opinion, of which I am just as entitled to as the next person. Touche.