Jim Hargrove

John,

I think we're putting too much emphasis on the photos.  They're fun and easy to talk about, but just as easy to mischaracterize and misrepresent.  But since we're talking about the mug shots, here is what I think is LEE's far more receding hairline:

Fascinating conversation.  I just wanted to add that, IMO, there is no way that some of the youthful pictures shown above were of Harvey Oswald. Those images show a child too well fed and content to have been Harvey, even the Harvey shown at the Bronx Zoo.

Here’s how Dr. Renatus Hartog described his encounter with (Harvey) Oswald in 1953:

David,

Just one of the confusing things here is that, as John A. wrote, the 7408 Ewing address appeared on the Benbrook Common School 1945-46 enrollment card two years before Marguerite purchased the house on Sept. 15, 1948.  Was there some sort of arrangement with a previous owner that allowed her to stay there?  There’s no evidence for that.

John wrote, “Marguerite Oswald purchased the house at 7408 Ewing on September 15, 1948, but the instrument transferring title to the property (the deed) was not recorded until four years later. on August 20. 1952. The next entry recorded in Tarrant County land records is the sale of 7408 Ewing. also on August 20. 1952.130 Title to the Oswald's home passed to and from Marguerite Oswald on the same day.” [H&L, p. 42]

From some Real Estate work that I’ve done, it’s clear that not that many decades ago it sometimes literally took years for home sales to be recorded, though I always found that odd.  How was an owner protected if a deed was not recorded by local authorities for years?  But it seems to have happened often enough.

But for the real confusion, almost every day the question strikes me: Who on earth was Nancy Lee Oswald?  (Nice discovery!)  That is just so weird that I’m not quite sure why you reject out of hand John Butler’s self-proclaimed “kooky conspiracy” about Nancy Lee being a stand-in for a second LHO.  Can you explain that to me directly?  I’d appreciate it.  The 1508 8th Ave. address is where Edkdahl, Marguerite, and Lee lived after their separation, but that doesn't begin to explain who Nancy Lee Oswald was.

15 hours ago, Stephen Lavin said:

Although there are disputes about the accuracy of bio metrics and facial recognition software and its use in society, I believe it has been established that the main bio metric features of the face ie the dimensions between the eyes, ears, nose, lips, chin and ears stay the same.

Has anyone made such a study on the photos that have been presented as L.H.O over the years? 

Yes. The study was published on the Deep Politics Forum four or five years ago but, unfortunately, the link to it below no longer seems to work. Here's an edited post I made here in 2017 about it:

Pixel Counting Biometric

Comparison of Oswald photos

A couple of years ago on another forum, a Dallas attorney named Drew Phipps, familiar with facial recognition techniques, did a detailed series of posts he titled: “Pixel Counting Biometric Comparison of Oswald photos.”

Mr. Phipps measured, in various pictures of “Oswald,” the ratios of the distances between a number of different facials features in photos. He described his analytical method as follows:

The ratios I will use are: “pupil-to-pupil / width of eye” (called P/W hereafter), “pupil-to-pupil / length of nose” (called P/N hereafter), “pupil-to-pupil / nose-to-top-lip” (called P/L hereafter) and “pupil-to-pupil / earlobe-to-earlobe” (called P/E hereafter). The use of ratios (instead of actual measurements) will make it unnecessary to know more about the distance from lens to face, or the type of camera, etc., since the proportions of the face of the same person should stay the same regardless of those other factors.

In his series of posts, Mr. Phipps went into considerable detail about the photos he was using and how he made and interpreted his measurements. I think you have to be a member of the forum to be able to see the actual graphics but the written descriptions of his work, and his conclusions, are visible to non-members. At any rate, here are Mr. Phipps’ final conclusions.

Visual Conclusions: Unless there is something terribly wrong with my methodology, (or my spreadsheet skills), or the photos are simply too low resolution for a significant biometric comparison, there is some evidence that there is more than one individual here. 

If I had to clump the photos in two different piles, it looks to me like photos 1, 2, 3, 9 and 13 are the same individual, and photos 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, and 12 are the same individual.

I realize this is not the same narrative as "Harvey and Lee". It is still my opinion that it is far more likely that the paper trail of discrepancies surrounding Oswald is the result of deliberate tampering with his records (in an attempt to catch a mole, or deceive a communist spy organization). But the biometric discrepancies are starting to make me wonder. 

CLICK HERE to see Mr. Phipps’ study.

UPDATE: Here is a link to Mr. Phipps' study that seems to work.  However, if you are not a member of the Deep Politics Forum, you will not be able to see the graphics and the posts will look very disjointed.  Joining is free.

DJ and John B,

John A. put together a page on my website called Evolution of the "Defection" Photo.  The "face mask" photo is there along with a number of others.  I think we all agree that the image was originally that of Lee Oswald.  The bulbous nose appears to be in the original photo that the masked photo was sourced from but, of course, what appears to be the original photo could itself have been altered.

What do you guys think of the theory that a recognizable image of Harvey Oswald could not have been placed in a newspaper near the Dallas/Fort Worth area because some reader might have known Lee Oswald well enough to realize that the picture didn't show him?

Stephen,

If you are looking for formal endnote citations, thousands of them are available in the book Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong.  Excellent PDFs of the 1000+ page book are freely available on the web, as are files extracted from the accompanying Harvey and Lee CD, which contains nearly a thousand additional pages of document reproductions and photographs.

ALL of the documentation and other evidence John A. assembled for his book (much of which he obtained personally from the National Archives) is fully searchable and available without charge or limitations at Baylor University's online JFK | John Armstrong Collection.  I plan to continue to post summaries of key points points of evidence for Harvey and Lee until someone can debunk them right here.
 

Appreciate the responses.

To me, the most interesting questions here are these:

1. Why did no 1959 newspaper in the Dallas/Fort Worth area print a recognizable picture of “Lee Harvey Oswald”?
2. Only one other 1959 newspaper I can find presented the same unrecognizable image of Oswald that was printed in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.  That other paper was the Washington, DC Evening Star.  Why was a story in that Washington newspaper written by Priscilla Johnson for the North American Newspaper Alliance accompanied by the same weird photo presented in the Fort Worth daily?

1.  For the first question, my guess is that there were people living in the Dallas/Fort Worth area who, if shown a clear picture of the “defector,” would realize it was not the same LHO they knew from Fort Worth.

2.  In Deep Politics and the Death of JFK, Peter Dale Scott wrote the following about Priscilla Johnson and the North American Newspaper Alliance (NANA):

Serious students of the JFK Assassination have long been interested in NANA, which supplied Priscilla Johnson (better known now as Priscilla McMillan) with the job (or, to some, cover) by which she worked in Moscow, and there interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald on the urging of U.S. Consul Snyder. After the assassination, Johnson developed a close relationship with Marina Oswald, in connection with a book contract originally arranged by C.D. Jackson of Life Magazine at the urging of Allen Dulles. In this connection, Johnson helped identify a much-disputed bus ticket stub, belatedly discovered by the two women in August 1964, which helped to place Oswald on a specific Mexican bus....  NANA was created by a senior veteran of OSS, Ernest Cuneo, and continued to have intelligence connections.

My guess, therefore, is this unrecognizable photo of LHO was provided by American Intel, which didn’t want people in the Dallas Fort/Worth area to see a clear picture of the defector.  This one sure fits the bill:

17 hours ago, John Kowalski said:

Some of the Blair papers have been copied. My contact did not have time to copy everything so he will return another time and copy some more. 

https://archive.org/details/blair-papers-folder-1

John,

I've read through this but I can't see any mention of the Gardos family, and only a few personal things about the Blairs.  He says, for example, "We were full Germans."  Did you contact copy more stuff this time around.  Please thank him again for his work.

Mr. Bojczuk wants readers to believe I am avoiding answering his questions when, in fact, it is he himself who is trying to change the subject to avoid issues I raised on the very first page of this thread, and elsewhere in it.  For the ninth time, now, will Mr. Bojczuk finally debate here the following issues? Or will he just say, as predicted in the title of this topic,  that someone else has successfully debunked these points and hide behind a flurry of links?  None of the issues below are debunked in any of the links Mr. Bojczuk provides above.

• For the fall semester of the 1953-54 school year,  one Oswald attended Beauregard JHS in New Orleans for 89 school days while the other was enrolled in Public School 44 in New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.
• For the next semester, one Oswald was at Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while the other Oswald attended Stripling School in Texas.
• One Oswald lost a front tooth during a fight at Beauregard JHS in the fall of 1954, but the Oswald exhumed decades later obviously had all his front teeth intact.
• The Social Security Administration did not include ANY of “Lee Harvey Oswald’s” teen-aged employment income in his “Lifetime Earnings Report” indicating in a cover letter it was including “Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps.”
• One Oswald departed for Taiwan aboard the USS Skagit on Sept. 14, 1958 and was stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan on Oct. 6, 1958, at the very same time the other Oswald was being treated for venereal disease at Atsugi, Japan, nearly 1500 miles away.
• One Oswald appeared at the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans while the other was in the Soviet Union.
• One Oswald had a driver’s license and was seen by many witnesses driving a car, and the other Oswald could not drive.
• On November 22, 1963, one Oswald left the Texas School Book Depository on a bus and then a taxi, and the other left in a Nash Rambler.

Mr. Bojczuk repeatedly refuses to debate the above points, claiming only that someone else has debunked them.  If that were true, surely Mr. Bojczuk would be willing to summarize those debunkings in his own words here.  But he won’t.  He also ignores the evidence that as an adult, Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was 5’9’ tall while, also as an adult, American-born Lee Oswald was 5’11” and quite a bit heavier.

The missing front tooth is a particularly simple illustration of the differences between the two Oswalds. In the fall of 1954, Ed Voebel became acquainted with LEE Oswald after he witnessed him in a fight with Johnny and Mike Neumeyer (9th grade). The fight lasted a long time and was witnessed and remembered by several students at Beauregard. After the fight Voebel and two friends got some ice for (LEE) Oswald and attempted to patch him up. 

Mr. JENNER. But you do remember that you attempted to help him when he was struck in the mouth on that occasion; is that right?
Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out.
           --Warren Commission: Vol. 8, Page 3   

Voebel himself snapped the photo of Oswald and his missing tooth, which he eventually sold to LIFE magazine for $75.  

Of course, the 1981 exhumation photos clearly show that Classic Oswald® (Russian-speaking Harvey) had no missing front tooth.

Mr. Bojczuk simply ignores all the points I have raised above, and more, and tries to change the subject by asking me to point out discrepancies in a clearly corrupted photographic record.

The title of this thread is: "EVIDENCE FOR HARVEY AND LEE (Please debate the specifics right here. Don't just claim someone else has debunked it!)" Of course, no one is obligated to follow my suggestions, but the inability of ANYONE to debunk right here the points I raised above speaks volumes.  All anyone can do is hide behind links, pretending someone else, somewhere else, has successfully debunked these issues.  They haven't. 

4 hours ago, John Kowalski said:

Some of the Blair papers have been copied. My contact did not have time to copy everything so he will return another time and copy some more. 

https://archive.org/details/blair-papers-folder-1

Great news, John!  Looks like your above link leads, already, to some of the scans your contact made.  It that correct?

Although this is probably a long shot, I'm already getting excited about this.  MEGATHANKS!!!

I'll try to start studying this first thing tomorrow!

Oops... almost forgot.  As promised, below is part of the D.C. Evening Star story written by our old friend Priscilla Johnson for the North American Newspaper Alliance.  It features the same, unrecognizable image of "Lee Harvey Oswald" that was published nearly a month earlier by the The Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

Would someone--anyone--like to offer a theory as to why no newspaper in Texas in 1959 was provided with a recognizable copy of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" photograph?  Other newspapers outside of Texas certainly had good pictures of "Oswald."  Why would that be?  Why didn't "Lee Harvey Oswald's" hometown paper publish a recognizable picture of him when he "defected" to the Soviet Union? 

David,

Thanks!  Assuming you’re right about the “composite” shot, it should have been made in the U.S. before our boy even set sail across the Atlantic on Sept. 20, which makes me wonder why it wasn’t available to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram when it published the fuzzy mugshot at the beginning of November. 

Below for easy reference is a copy of Jack White’s “Evolution of Lee Harvey Oswald” poster.  Would you hazard a guess whether the “composite”  image that made it into the mid-November papers was no. 32, 33, 34, or 35 on Jack’s chart?

That is a little weird about the bend in the ties.  Sartorial Peyronie's disease?

John,

Ed Forum posts are fully indexed on Google and other search engines, and typically get high rankings in the results pages.  That's the only reason I bother arguing here.

Larry,

I don't see a Masen image or reference in your link above.  Nevertheless, I do see a passing similarity between Masen and "Oswald."

I'm pretty sure, though, that Mr. Russell's opinion has changed on this.  I know from direct experience that he is a firm believer in John Armstrong's work.

Yesterday, I went through 1959 articles in a large newspaper database looking for photos of “Lee Harvey Oswald” published that year.  All the 1959 stories were in reference to his so-called “defection” to the Soviet Union that year.

A number of dailies had photos that look just like Classic Oswald®.  For example, page 18 of the 11/16/59  edition of the Augusta, GA Chronicle printed a UPI story with a very recognizable image of Oswald.

Similarly, page 4-B of the 11/19/59 edition of the Charleston, SC News and Courier published this short piece with an even clearer image of Oswald.

Oddly enough, though, there wasn’t a single Texas newspaper that I could find in the large database that had a recognizable image of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” The Dallas Morning News (DMN) had several articles about the so-called defection, but none included an image of Oswald.  (It should be noted that there were a number of blacked out boxes among the DMN articles, but it appears to be that paper’s  policy to black out advertisements in its archived articles, and I believe the black boxes were simply removed ads.)

One Texas daily did have an image of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” and that was his home town paper. The Fort Worth Star-Telegram published the following photo of Oswald:

Some years ago, author John Armstrong wrote to Associated Press/Wide World Photos and asked to purchase the best available version of the photograph reproduced so poorly in the Star-Telegram. Below is the image he received directly from AP/World Wide Photos.  The typed label to the left indicates: "This is a retransmission of FW1 of Nov. 1 to provide better copy."  

Neither the Star-Telegram nor any other Texas paper I could find published any other photo of “Lee Harvey Oswald.”  But one other newspaper did publish the same unrecognizable image of Oswald as the Star-Telegram.  And that was part of a D.C. Evening Star story written by our old friend Priscilla Johnson for the North American Newspaper Alliance.  I’ll put an image of her story in my next post.

Can anyone hazard a guess as to why clear images of  “Lee Harvey Oswald” might be shown in newspapers outside of Texas, but only a washed-out, unrecognizable newspaper image shown in his home town of Fort Worth and nothing at all in nearby Dallas? 

In fairness, I should point out that the unrecognizable photo was published before the Moscow photos would have been available to the Fort Worth paper, but there were follow-up articles in Texas newspapers, all without photos, and it still strikes me as weird that I can find no recognizable image of “Oswald” in any 1959 Texas newspaper.  Again, could there be a reason for that?

As an adult, Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was 5’9’ while, also as an adult, American-born Lee Oswald was 5’11” and quite a bit heavier.

Although there are scattered references to “Oswald’s” height at 5’5”, 5’6” 5’8”, and two at 5’10”, the vast majority of documents list his height at either 5’9” or 5’11”.

To take just three examples: The autopsy report of “Lee Harvey Oswald” lists his height as 5’9”, exactly matching the height listed on many other documents.  But the 9/3/59 USMC medical exam and the 10/12/59 Armed Forces Report of Transfer or Discharge both list his height at 5’11”.  None of these measurements are self-reported.

Harvey Oswald had all his front teeth intact, as shown in the exhumation photos.

Lee Oswald lost at least one front tooth in a 9th grade school yard fight.

These are clear physical differences between the adult Oswalds.

Comparing noses or chins on various “Oswald” photographs is silly when, for example, different sources tell us all the mugshots below are of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” 

Let’s play the game anyway on at least on physical feature.  Years ago, John Armstrong collected and organized various mugshots of the two Oswalds, arranging them in rows that, according to the available biographical information, should show American-born Lee Oswald in the top row, and Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald in the bottom row.  It is interesting to note that, following the 1954 image of his missing front tooth, none of the images of Lee show his teeth.

Compare the necks of the two Oswalds shown above.   Note how much thicker the neck appears to be in the top row of Oswalds (Lee) than in the bottom row (Harvey).

John Pic hadn't seen his half brother since 1953, but the on several occasions, “Lee Harvey Oswald’s” half brother told the Warren Commission that photographs he was shown of Classic Oswald® didn’t appear to be those of his brother. 

When asked, "How did he look to you physically as compared with when you had seen him last?" Pic replied (emphasis added), "I would have never recognized him, sir ..... he was much thinner than I had remembered him. He didn't have as much hair ..... His face features were somewhat different, being his eyes were set back maybe, you know like in these army pictures, they looked different that I remembered him. His face was rounder. Marilyn had described him to me when he went in the Marine Corps as having a bull neck. This I didn't notice at all."

Mr. Bojczuk recently started asking to point out physical differences between the two Oswalds, which I have done repeatedly in this thread, other thread, and in this very post.  By the same token, for at least the eighth time in this very topic, I’ve asked Mr. Bojczuk to discuss the following points of evidence proving the existence of two “Lee Harvey Oswalds,” which he always fails to do.  Why is that?

• For the fall semester of the 1953-54 school year,  one Oswald attended Beauregard JHS in New Orleans for 89 school days while the other was enrolled in Public School 44 in New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.
• For the next semester, one Oswald was at Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while the other Oswald attended Stripling School in Texas.
• One Oswald lost a front tooth during a fight at Beauregard JHS in the fall of 1954, but the Oswald exhumed decades later obviously had all his front teeth intact.
• The Social Security Administration did not include ANY of “Lee Harvey Oswald’s” teen-aged employment income in his “Lifetime Earnings Report” indicating in a cover letter it was including “Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps.”
• One Oswald departed for Taiwan aboard the USS Skagit on Sept. 14, 1958 and was stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan on Oct. 6, 1958, at the very same time the other Oswald was being treated for venereal disease at Atsugi, Japan, nearly 1500 miles away.
• One Oswald appeared at the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans while the other was in the Soviet Union.
• One Oswald had a driver’s license and was seen by many witnesses driving a car, and the other Oswald could not drive.
• On November 22, 1963, one Oswald left the Texas School Book Depository on a bus and then a taxi, and the other left in a Nash Rambler.

Mr. Bojczuk is happy to tell readers that someone else somewhere else has "debunked" the above, but he will not do so himself in his own words right here.

Again, Mr. Bojczuk insists that I micro-analyze  a visual record that has clearly been falsified and manipulated.  What a waste of time.

For another example, here is the image of Lee Harvey Oswald the Fort Worth Star-Telegram ran at the time of the 1959 “defection.”  

Years later, John Armstrong wrote to Associated Press/Wide World Photos and asked to purchase the best available version of the photograph reproduced so poorly in the Star-Telegram. Below is the image he received directly from AP/World Wide Photos.  The typed label to the left indicates: "This is a retransmission of FW1 of Nov. 1 to provide better copy."  

Spitting image of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” eh?  

Again, Mr. Bojczuk insists all the images below are of the same person.  

Whatever you do, don't believe your own lying eyes!

Finally, in his post at the top of this page, Mr. Bojczuk makes three links labeled “Harvey and Lee” that do not lead to the Harvey and Lee website.  Here is the real link:

Harvey and Lee
 

Mr. Burroughs now lives in New England.  Late last year, a month or so after Mr. Simpich announced here that he was communicating with the former Texas Theater concessionaire, researcher Richard Gilbride talked on the phone with Mr. Burroughs and requested an interview to be video recorded by Brian Doyle.  Mr. Burroughs apparently replied that he wasn’t interested in more interviews and that someone else was now handling his affairs.

We all hope, no doubt, that Mr. Simpich will have more success.

On 2/14/2020 at 9:45 AM, Steve Thomas said:

Jim,

If we assume for a moment that David Joseph is right and Oswald did not go to Mexico (at least under the guise of the official story we have been give), then we have to ask, where was he?

If he didn't go to Mexico, then he is "missing" for something like 10 days. Marina has loaded up Ruth Paine's car with all their belongings, and left New Orleans for Dallas in a station wagon. Have they cancelled their rent in New Orleans yet?  Forget about their furniture, does LHO even have a place to live?

I need to back and research his rent situation.

Ruth Paine told the WC that she thought Oswald had gone to either Houston or Philadelphia to look for work.

Did Ruth or Marina ask LHO where he had been for the last 10 days? I don't remember.

You've got Odio and Alice mixed up in there. Maybe he did go to Mexico, but just not for the reasons we have been given, and not by the route that the WC laid out.

How and where is he eating and sleeping?

 

Steve Thomas

Steve,

Thanks for the question....

Can we both agree that if “Lee Harvey Oswald” had been to either the Russian or Cuban embassies in Mexico City the CIA would have given the Warren Commission photos of LHO just outside the door(s) of either or both embassies? The CIA had cameras, pulse cameras, and backup cameras aimed at the exterior doors of both embassies, and yet none--NOT ONE--captured anyone looking remotely like “Lee Harvey Oswald” knocking on the door. The Agency was under big pressure to provide photos of LHO, but it couldn’t.  I don’t think any Oswald EVER approached a Mexico City embassy.

To me, the available evidence clearly suggests that LHO never visited the Russian or Cuban consulates in Mexico Cit, but whether Oswald, any Oswald, actually went to Mexico City is a thornier issue.  Below are some brief snippets from H&L::

On the evening of September 24 Harvey Oswald's neighbor on Magazine Street, Eric Rogers, saw him leave his apartment in New Orleans with two bags and board a city bus.

September, 1963. While Oswald was supposedly en route to Mexico City on a bus, “Leon” Oswald and two other men visited prominent Cuban dissident Sylvia Odio at her apartment in Dallas. One of the men who accompanied Oswald phoned her the following day and said that Oswald wanted JFK assassinated following the Bay of Pigs.

The remnants of Continental Trailways bus tags allegedly identified the bus line. The chalk mark "9/26," was written on the outside of the olive colored bag to identify Oswald's alleged date of entry into Mexico.

September 27, 10:00 am - Lee Oswald arrives in Mexico City

About 8 :00 am, two hours before arriving in Mexico City, Lee Oswald talked to Pamela Mumford and Patricia Winston for the second and last time.

Forty minutes after arriving in Mexico City Oswald had walked 4 blocks to the Hotel del Comercio, checked into room #18, probably changed clothes, probably tele­phoned the Soviet Military Attache at 10:30 am, and probably telephoned the Soviet Consulate at 10:37 am. Twenty minutes later (11:00 am) he appeared at the Cuban Con­sulate, 3 miles from the Hotel del Comercio, at Calle Fransicso Marques 160. Lee Oswald accomplished these activities so efficiently, and in such a short period of time, that his schedule appears to have been pre-planned or pre-directed.

The conversation between Hoover and Johnson occurred at 10:01 am on No­vember 23, 1963 and was recorded as the two men discussed Oswald's visit to Mexico City:

Johnson: "Have you established any more about the visit to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City in September?"

Hoover: "No, that's one angle that's very confusing for this reason. We have up
here the tape and the photograph of the man who was at the Soviet
Embassy using Oswald's name. That picture and the tape do not corre­
spond to this man's voice, nor to his appearance. In other words, it ap­
pears that there is a second person who was at the Soviet Embassy...

We have now learned that Harvey Oswald was never in Mexico City, and we have also learned the activities of the individual(s) who impersonated him were wrapped in "smoke and mirrors."

The Transportes Frontera story begins to fall apart

On December 3, 1963 FBI agents interviewed Harry Sanderson, a clerk with the Texas Employment Commission (TEC) at 2210 Main Street in Dallas. Sanderson said that according to their records Oswald visited the TEC office on October 3, 1963 prior to closing at 4:30 pm A subsequent investigation established that Oswald checked into the Dallas Y MCA between 4:00 and 4:30 pm on October 3, 1963, where he spent the evening.

1) If Oswald was in Dallas at 4:30 pm, then he could not have departed Mexico
aboard the Transportes Frontera bus line on October 2 at 1:00pm and, there­-
fore, the report of the Mexican Ministry of the Interior was flawed and unreliable.
If Oswald was at the TEC in Dallas at 4:30 pm, he could not have applied for
a job and talked with Laymon Stewart at KOPY radio in Alice, Texas the
same day.

NOTE: It now seems clear that Harvey Oswald traveled from New Orleans to Dallas
during the evening of September 25, with "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" in a red car. He was
seen on the morning of September 26 at the TEC in Dallas by Henry McCluskey and 9:00
pm on the evening of September 26 in Oak Cliff (Dallas) by Sylvia and Annie Odio. This,
of course, created a serious problem for the FBI, because Oswald was supposed to be in
Mexico at this time-not in Dallas.

As always, Mr. Bojczuk insists we do his bidding by pointing out this and that in what is quite obviously a seriously compromised visual record of “Lee Harvey Oswald.”  It is obvious!

Mr. Bojczuk insists the images below are real photographs, although they sure look like pencil drawings.

He insists that the faces shown below are of the “one and only Lee Harvey Oswald.”  Is he kidding?  

Any reader who wishes to see REAL EVIDENCE for two Lee Harvey Oswalds need only look at the very first page of this very thread.  Despite claims to the contrary, none of the issues raised there have ever been successfully debunked.  Mr. Bojczuk will be happy to provide a link or two to websites he says provide “alternate explanations,” but, just as I predicted in the title of this thread, he refuses to put the information here, where it can be clearly debated.

More than half a dozen times, I’ve offered to debate the following evidence with Mr. Bojczuk:

• For the fall semester of the 1953-54 school year,  one Oswald attended Beauregard JHS in New Orleans for 89 school days while the other was enrolled in Public School 44 in New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.
• For the next semester, one Oswald was at Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while the other Oswald attended Stripling School in Texas.
• One Oswald lost a front tooth during a fight at Beauregard JHS in the fall of 1954, but the Oswald exhumed decades later obviously had all his front teeth intact.
• The Social Security Administration did not include ANY of “Lee Harvey Oswald’s” teen-aged employment income in his “Lifetime Earnings Report” indicating in a cover letter it was including “Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps.”
• One Oswald departed for Taiwan aboard the USS Skagit on Sept. 14, 1958 and was stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan on Oct. 6, 1958, at the very same time the other Oswald was being treated for venereal disease at Atsugi, Japan, nearly 1500 miles away.
• One Oswald appeared at the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans while the other was in the Soviet Union.
• One Oswald had a driver’s license and was seen by many witnesses driving a car, and the other Oswald could not drive.
• On November 22, 1963, one Oswald left the Texas School Book Depository on a bus and then a taxi, and the other left in a Nash Rambler.

Mr. Bojczuk is happy to tell readers that someone else somewhere else has "debunked" the above, but he will not do so himself in his own words right here.

I started this thread because, in another thread, Mr. Bojczuk repeated his usual refrain that the two Oswald analysis is less than credible.  He wants us to believe there are "alternate facts" to explain it all, and yet when challenged to produce these alternate facts, neither he nor anyone else is able to do so.  What a surprise!

John,

I knew you were quoting DJ.

Your conjecture, though, that the no parents and no brothers and sisters remark in the little autobiography was code or some attempt to distinguish himself from the birth LHO is intriguing.  I’ve wondered about this for years.

Harvey Oswald had spent half his life being prepared for the so-called “defection.”  He was clearly under stress when Soviet officials saw through the attempt and ordered him to leave. 

The phony suicide attempt was brilliant; and it worked!  But his stress level was pretty clear from the observations of the medics at Botkinskaya Hospital indicating that he seemed to understand Russian language questions, answered them, and then immediately said he didn’t understand.  He clearly had to make some quick decisions during this operation, and the little “autobiography” may well have been among those made by a young man in a very stressful situation.

15 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Phillips had yet to arrive in Mexico - I think it very possible he brings the tapes with him...

I think we can feel pretty sure Oswald did not actually go to Mexico....

So other than these ALICE Oswald's working for Phillips within this charade,,, how do these impostors know about Mexico City before the FBI, STATE or NAVY
when informed by the CIA on the 10th?

If Phillips had those recordings prepared, he was the worst conspirator on the planet.  What a terrible job.  Did he want the story to fall apart under the slightest scrutiny?

As for the "just got back from Mexico" reference of the KOPY Oswald, that's my point exactly!  At least by October 4, someone must have known about the Mexico City story, don't you think?

11 hours ago, John Butler said:

" I challenge you to find a single MARINE who would say he was an Army Grunt.... or had anything to do with the Army - in the 60's even moreso.

Can I get a Who-ya?"

Absolutely so and without question.  Of all the services the Marines exhibit the most pride.  At least that was my experience in the 60s when I served briefly with and was assigned to look after a small Marine group.  Army infantry guys had it easy compared to Marine duty.

I learned along time ago discussing anything about Harvey and Lee with Parnell is a waste of time.

That does seem weird, but that whole little autobiography is strange, especially the "my parents are dead, I have no brothers or sisters" phrase.  For the Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald, who John A. suspects might have been a WWII orphan, the statements may well have been true, although certainly running against the plans the H&L controllers made.

Thank you, btw, for the work you've done on the photos.  I don't know much about this stuff, but it does seem to me that even if some of your suspicions about face masks and the like are true, it would be difficult to prove beyond a doubt.  Nevertheless, now you've got me looking for some of the little details you've pointed out in the photos.  

3 hours ago, David Josephs said:

#2 makes the most sense... WHY? dave asks.... IMO it's to counter his trip to ODIO and his being in DALLAS with Cubans... remember this is BEFORE Phillips/Goodpasture put Ozzie in Mexico... well before the FBI uses Lic. OCHOA to create all the Mexican evidence of the trip....  I get the impression the ALICE OSWALDS were the work of the FBI to CYA for Ozzie's work and being seen by Odio...

It sure would be nice to get some certainty for the reason behind the Alice charade.  I’ve been wondering about that for two decades. Paul Jolliffe speculated that it might have been some leftover rubble (he had an intel word for it that I forget) for framing “Oswald” for a San Antonio or Houston hit on JFK that never materialized.

One of the KOPY witnesses, Stewart, I think, indicated this Oswald said he just got back from Mexico, which seems significant in trying to figure this out.