Vanessa Loney

Sorry Vanessa... it was penned in to do yesterday, but got side-tracked with other stuff... (catching up on GST reporting - very exciting stuff). My best guess would be one that would fit in his pocket... Sorry Vanessa... it was penned in to do yesterday, but got side-tracked with other stuff... (catching up on GST reporting - very exciting stuff). My best guess would be one that would fit in his pocket... No probs Walter. I also think something pocket-sized makes sense.

Hi Terry - Oswald was right handed so PM using his right hand to push the button would be consistent with that.

I"m sorry Ray. I was just having a little joke with our friend Mr Parker (obviously not a very funny one). I agree with Randy. Let's see what we can come up with.

Are we still waiting for Mr Parker's camera evidence? Feasibly, he doesn't have any.

Great idea Mr Parker. We're waiting in anticipation....

Thanks, Vanessa. Concerning the Altgens image, I think that's correct. We know Ike Altgens had a camera, so given the resolution of the Zapruder film and the reflection of the sun, we know those two stacked white-ish rectangles have to be it. Here's a picture of Ike with his camera taken a few minutes later: Thanks, Vanessa. Concerning the Altgens image, I think that's correct. We know Ike Altgens had a camera, so given the resolution of the Zapruder film and the reflection of the sun, we know those two stacked white-ish rectangles have to be it. Here's a picture of Ike with his camera taken a few minutes later: Thanks Randy - I'm wondering if that helps us work out what sort of camera that PM might have been holding because I'd be suprised if he would have had something of a similar caliber to Altgens - a professional photo-journalist. Yet, the two white rectangles look very similar in shape.

Yes, where PM is actually standing is very important. I originally assumed, without giving it much thought, that the top step was rather narrow in depth (the 1963 entrance configuration before the landing was modified to be much deeper as it is now). I couldn't discern any significant depth by looking at the Darnell images. With this in mind, Prayer Man could be standing one step down and still appear that he was in the back corner. Over at ROKC they estimate the depth of the landing to be about 3 feet or 1 meter. Richard Hocking estimates the landing is 40-42 inches. Depending on distances and angles involved, if Prayer Man is standing in the back corner this could very well make him appear slightly smaller as compared with Buell Wesley Frazier, who is standing forward. But there are lots of variables here that have to be worked out. Another possibly is the Prayer Man is standing one step down, but the precise camera angle makes it appear he is standing in the back corner. Richard said to calculate this precisely all the relevant distances must be known. He added "regarding the heights and distances, I believe all the essential points are either known or can be estimated to a reasonable degree of accuracy." He expects to post more on this next week. I look forward to this. I don't think Prayer Man is around 5 feet tall. A man that short should have been conspicuous to someone. Then again, with all of the weird twists, turns and other implausibilities involved with this case, who knows. Edit: typos Yes, where PM is actually standing is very important. I originally assumed, without giving it much thought, that the top step was rather narrow in depth (the 1963 entrance configuration before the landing was modified to be much deeper as it is now). I couldn't discern any significant depth by looking at the Darnell images. With this in mind, Prayer Man could be standing one step down and still appear that he was in the back corner. Over at ROKC they estimate the depth of the landing to be about 3 feet or 1 meter. Richard Hocking estimates the landing is 40-42 inches. Depending on distances and angles involved, if Prayer Man is standing in the back corner this could very well make him appear slightly smaller as compared with Buell Wesley Frazier, who is standing forward. But there are lots of variables here that have to be worked out. Another possibly is the Prayer Man is standing one step down, but the precise camera angle makes it appear he is standing in the back corner. Richard said to calculate this precisely all the relevant distances must be known. He added "regarding the heights and distances, I believe all the essential points are either known or can be estimated to a reasonable degree of accuracy." He expects to post more on this next week. I look forward to this. I don't think Prayer Man is around 5 feet tall. A man that short should have been conspicuous to someone. Then again, with all of the weird twists, turns and other implausibilities involved with this case, who knows. Edit: typos Thanks Randy. It's so good to have your insightful and intelligent commentary on here. I agree that Altgens and PM seem to be standing in a very similar stance. In fact I'm pretty much won over to the proposition that PM is holding a camera. In the picture of Altgens, are the 2 pinkish rectangles his hands and the white-ish rectangle the camera? Because that would fit with the position of the white rectangle that PM is holding. Thanks for your views.

Thanks Robin. I think it was a tight fit to get in the door if you were going up the left side of the steps. There is not enough room to stand on the top landing and open the door towards you. No wonder they modified the entrance and made it deeper. I don't think it would meet modern OH&S. Maybe it's the angle the photo was taken at but in the Madie Reese photo the police officer is blocking our view of the radiator inside the TSBD. We can see this radiator behind PM in Weigman. It looks as though PM was closer to the wall than the police officer even though the PO looks pretty close but is it also possible PM was 2 steps down from the top landing thus giving us a better view of the radiator?

Thanks for posting this photo Robin. In the photo where Maddie Reese and others are coming out of the TSBD and the door is being held open by the police officer we can see a number of things. I think we can see here that the police officer who is opening the door is having to stand on the step down from the top landing to do it and his other foot seems to be resting behind him. Also we can see that when the door is opened it reaches all the way out to the edge of the landing. We can also see that anyone going in and out the TSBD door is in close proximity to where PM would have been standing. He would have been clearly visible to them. Perhaps even in the way a bit.

Hi Ian Just google 'Bill Shelley' and click on images. He's the one in the suit being escorted by the police. There's also plenty of other photos of him on that page in just shirt and tie. Shelley was a supervisor so I'd be surprised if he was helping in the physical work of laying the floor and he certainly wasn't dressed for it that day.

Thanks for your comments Ian. PM can't be Shelley. Shelley is clearly pictured in films/photos from that day wearing a white business shirt and a tie and suit pants and sometimes his suit jacket. PM is wearing a darkish coloured shirt and no tie.

Now Bob, no need to get tetchy. I'm obviously at a disadvantage here because I can't see the GIF we're talking about. Let me have a think and a ponder and I'll get back to you asap.

Thanks Bob. I have to say I take the testimony of everyone on the steps that day with a grain of salt. None of them saw PM and several of them gave contradictory testimony about what they did before and after the shots ie Shelley and Lovelady. I would take the films over their testimony in this case. In the Weigman and Darnell films it doesn't look to me as if PM is ever on the top landing of the steps - otherwise we are going back to PM being a diminutive 5 foot-ish.

Thanks for that description Bob. It does sound intriguing that's for sure. Is PM clearly on the top landing (or step) though? I didn't think he was ever on the top level.

Not at all Bob. I'd love to comment on the GIF but I can't download it due to my hopeless browser. I'll try tomorrow when I'm on a better computer.

Hi Tommy Another one of those six degrees of separation that crops up constantly in this. Although in his case it sounds like only 2 degrees of separation between him and Oswald. Were you able to find out where he sent the telegram from?

Thanks very much for those comments, Robin. I really appreciate your input.

Oh - he probably really was in Dealey Plaza then! As you probably already know there was a large number of intelligence agencies all situated right near each other in the vicinity of Dealey Plaza. Did he say where was he stationed at the time?

Hi Tommy Well, there's only two possible explanations for that. He was either 1) in Dealey Plaza doing the shooting; or 2) Prayer Man.

Thanks for your response David. Except that what we are talking about here is the Kennedy assassination where everyone in the world who was alive on that day can remember exactly where they were and what they were doing when they heard the news. So I expect if I worked in the TSBD and the shooter turned out to be a fellow employee I'd be combing my mind for every detail of what I did that day. Especially as the TSBD employees were asked about whether they saw a stranger around the building and they all say they didn't. In Weigman the employees who are walking back into the building are not the ones who went down to the Knoll and then returned to the building. Weigman is taken only seconds after the shots were heard and it's possible this was the group that was lining Elm St right in front of the TSBD and hadn't really grasped what had happened in the motorcade at this point and just headed back to work. If that is the case and they had to look PM in the face to open the door and get into the building then I would expect they would remember him either as Oswald or as a stranger. But there is not a word about this man.

Thanks Robin I hope you don't mind me asking you this, but if people were interested in getting better resolution frames to work with do you have any advice as to where they might go? Thanks for any thoughts you may have.

Hi Robin Apologies, I can't post the response I'm replying to on EF due to technical issues. In reference to the graphic above showing BWF and PM, I take it you are one of those who believe that PM was 5 foot tall? I think Chris Davidson and others on here addressed that height issue a page or two back. Just a comment about the graphic, the PM figure doesn't appear to have any feet or are they included in the leg measurements? He already looks disproportionately small compared to BWF - if he's given feet he would be even tinier. The PM figure in Stan and Gerda's GIFs appears to have head, body and arms that are in proportion to the others on the steps. He does not appear to be diminutive. He just looks so much shorter compared to BWF because he is standing on the next step down from the top landing (where BWF is standing).

Hi David Except that PM is standing right behind where the TSBD door opens and anyone going into the TSBD would have been staring him right in the face as they opened the door. If he was a stranger on the day of the assassination don't you think he would have stood out? Most of the TSBD employees are specifically asked, and specifically deny, seeing any strangers around the TSBD that day in their WC testimony and affividavits.

Hi Robin Apologies, I've been out. The Stan Dane GIF I'm referring to is on this page at comment #1756. It shows more detail of what PM is doing with his hands. Any comments on what he is doing?

Hi Robin Yes, you are renowned for your good work in the research field. I'm sure we've all seen your excellent galleries and commentary over the years. But I was just wondering if you have any views on Stan Dane's GIF of PM in motion and what he is doing with his hands?