David Boylan
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Posts posted by David Boylan
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Here is the biography of Jack Hawkins:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKhawkins.htm
He might still be alive. If so, he would be an interesting person to interview.
Here's an interesting interview of Esterline.
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Steve,
Some things I learned over the years researching the far right:
Some groups/orgs are just paper.
A member of one group can be a member of many others. As a matter of fact, it was quite common. This makes it hard to "blame" an incident on any one group.
A few examples: Dan Burros. Burros was a member of the National States Rights Party, the KKK, American Nazi Party, Minutemen, and American National Party. In that strange world of Lee Harvey Oswald's address book, Dan Burros name and address can be found. The address that was listed was the one that Burros only used for a breif period when he and John Patler left the American Nazi Party to form their 2 man group called the American National Party. If my memory is right, and that's a stretch, the ANP lasted only for 6-8 months during 62-63. Burros and Patler produced a small little pamphlet called "Kill!". Four issues I believe. So how did LHO know of Burros? He may have read about him in either the far right or far left literature.
Robert Surrey. He was Walker's right hand man for years. He was also a member of the American Committe to Free Cuba which Harry Dean identified as a sub-group of the John Birch Society. Surrey later became a member of George Lincoln Rockwell's American Nazi Party and did lots of publishing work for him from Dallas.
Joseph Milteer. National States Rights Party, Dixie Klan, Constitution Party. The previously mention Gen. Pedro del Valle was also a member of the very small Constitution Party.
More later...
Dave
[Dawn,Very strange, Steve. especially in Dallas, at Christmas, so soon after 11/22.
Here's a link to his article:
http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Marxmanship1.html
It makes for some interesting reading. You really get a feeling for how the right wing was thinking back in the early 1960's. Note the subtle anti-Semetic references.
I've run across references to some pretty strange groups, including one called, The Silver Shirt Squad of the American Storm Troopers.
Can't say as I've ever heard of them before.
:-)
Steve Thomas
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Originally complied and posted by Joe Knapp.
General Edwin A. Walker is known to most JFK assassination buffs as
the man whom Oswald allegedly shot at in April, 1963. The general's
right-wing connections are often noted, as is the fact that he was
forced out of his command by the Kennedy administration for his
political indoctrination of his troops. His activities during the
race riots in Oxford, Mississippi in 1962 are also often mentioned,
when he was arrested on four federal charges including insurrection.
His public statement was as follows:
This is Edwin A. Walker. I am in Mississippi beside Gov. Ross
Barnett. I call for a national protest against the conspiracy
from within.
Rally to the cause of feedom in righteous indignation, violent
vocal protest and bitter silence under the flag of Mississippi
at the use of Federal troops.
This today is a disgrace to the nation in 'dire peril,' a
disgrace beyond the capacity of anyone except its enemies.
This is the conspiracy of the crucifixion by anti-Christ
conspirators of the Supreme Court in their denial of prayer
and their betrayal of a nation.
[source NYT, 9/30/62]
The Army ordered General Walker to undergo psychiatric testing.
The general's case is stange indeed. But another fact, not often mentioned,
makes his activities in 1961-3 even stranger. Going back to 1957, we find
him in charge of *enforcing* the desegregation order in Little Rock,
Arkansas! His public statements on the matter were limited to exhorting
the public to uphold the will of the courts and desegregate peacefully.
The following article details his biography up to that time.
============================================================================
New York Times, September 25, 1957, page 18
HE GUARDS THE PEACE
Edwin Anderson Walker
LITTLE ROCK, Sept. 24 -- Maj. Gen. Edwin Anderson Walker, who will be
responsible for maintaining peace in Little Rock, was described by staff
officers today as "tough, but fair." A tall, lean-visaged Texan,
General Walker came to Little Rock only seven weeks ago as commander of
the Arkansas Military District. He is still a stranger to the city.
Today, General Walker was at his desk in a downtown office building at
7 A.M. He had not yet received formal orders to take over the Arkansas
National Guard, but he knew what was coming. Already orders carrying
his signature were being processed for the deployment of National Guard
units. He will command a combined force of regulars and Federalized
Guardsmen.
He stands 6 feet 3 inches in height. He is a bachelor and has been
considered a prize for hostesses wherever he has been stationed.
He was born in Center Point, Texas, on Nov. 10, 1909.
General Walker's favorite expression is "check," a word he snaps to
indicate a mission has been accomplished or that he understands his
orders.
As a member of the Special Services group, he was required to be a
paratrooper. At his test, he approached a subordinate and asked:
"How do you put this thing on?"
He received a fast five-minute briefing and climbed into an airplane.
He jumped, landed safe and snapped to the test officer: "Check."
General Walker is a combat officer. He has seen action in World War II
and in Korea. He has carried out a number of unusual and hazardous
assignments, particularly during World War II.
He started his military career as an artillery officer after he
graduated from West Point in 1931. But he switched to commando
operations during the war and led a special force of Canadians and
Americans, in Italy and in France.
This outfit, trained for airborne, amphibious, mountain and ski
operations, was called the Special Services Force.
General Walker led the Third Regiment, First Special Service Force,
in its initial operation at Kiska during the Aleutians campaign. When
the commandos were transferred to the Italian campaign, General Walker
led the first Special Service Force in tough mountain fighting up the
Italian peninsula and at Anzio beachhead.
A Surprise Landing
In August, 1944, his men made a surprise landing on the Hyeres Islands
off the French Riviera and killed or captured a strong German garrison
that could have jeopardized the Seventh Army landings on the mainland
near by.
With the Hyeres occupied, his troops rejoined the main invasion force
and moved up the Rhone Valley. Toward the end of the war he was detached
from the commandos and placed in command of the 417 Infantry Regiment,
a separate force attached to the Third Army. At V-E Day he was commanding
a special task unit in Oslo.
Returning to the United States in January, 1946, General Walker served as
assistant director of the combined arms department, Field Artillery
School, Fort Sill, Okla. He was in charge of he Greek desk at the
Pentagon during the Greek civil war and made an official visit to Greece
and Turkey.
During the Korean War, General Walker commanded the Seventh Regiment
of the Third Infantry Division and later was senior adviser to
Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek. His last assignment before coming to
Little Rock was as commanding general at the Twenty-fifth Artillery
Division in Hawaii.
He holds the Silver Star and the Bronze Star with oak leaf cluster.
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Mrs. Odio.
They told me they were coming because of the assassination of President Kennedy, that they had news that I knew or I had known Lee Harvey Oswald. And I told them that I had not known him as Lee Harvey Oswald, but that he was introduced to me as Leon Oswald. And they showed me a picture of Oswald and a picture of Ruby. I did not know Ruby, but I did recall Oswald. They asked me about my activities in JURE. That is the Junta Revolutionary, and it is led by Manolo Ray. I told him that I did belong to this organization because my father and mother had belonged in Cuba, and I had seen him (Ray) in Puerto recently, and that I knew him personally, and that I did belong to JURE. They asked me about the members here in Dallas, and I told him a few names of the Cubans here. They asked me to tell the story about what happened in my house.
Mr. Liebeler.
Who was it that you had seen in Puerto Rico?
Mrs. Odio.
Mr. Ray, I had seen. He was a very close friend of my father and mother. He hid in my house several times in Cuba.
So they asked me to tell him how I came to know Oswald, and I told them that it was something very brief and I could not recall the time, exact date. I still can't. We more or less have established that it was the end of September. And, of course, my sister had recognized him at the same time I did, but I did not say anything to her. She came very excited one day and said, "That is the man that was in my house." And I said, "Yes; I remember."
Mr. Liebeler.
Tell us all the circumstances surrounding the event when Oswald came to your house.
Mrs. Odio.
Well, I had been having little groups of Cubans coming to my house who have been asking me to help them in JURE. They were going to open a revolutionary paper here in Dallas. And I told them at the time I was very busy with my four children, and I would help, in other things like selling bonus to help buy arms for Cuba. And I said I would help as much as I could.
Those are my activities before Oswald came. Of course, all the Cubans knew
that I was involved in JURE, but it did not have a lot of sympathy in Dallas and I was criticized because of that.
Mr. Liebeler.
Because of what now?
Mrs. Odio.
Because I was sympathetic with Ray and this movement. Ray has always had the propaganda that he is a leftist and that he is Castro without Castro. So at that time I was planning to move over to Oak Cliff because it was much nearer to my work in Irving. So we were all involved in this moving business, and my sister Annie, who at the time was staying with some America friends, had come over that weekend to babysit for me.
It either was a Thursday or 'a Friday. It must have been either one of those days, in the last days of September. And I was getting dressed to go out to a friend's house, and she was staying to babysit.
Like I said, the doorbell rang .and she went over--she had a housecoat on--she wasn't dressed properly--and came back and said, "Sylvia, there are three men at the door, and one seems to be an American, the other two seem to be Cubans. Do you know them ?" So I put a housecoat on and stood at the door. I never opened my door unless I know who they are, because I have had occasions where Cubans. have introduced themselves as having arrived from Cuba and known my family, and I never know.
So I went to the door, and he said, "Are you Sarita Odio?" And I said, "I am not. That is my sister studying at the University of Dallas. I am Sylvia." Then he said, "Is she the oldest?" And I said, "No; I am the oldest." And he said, "It is you we are looking for." So he said, "We are members of JURE."
This at the time struck me funny, because their faces did not seem familiar, and I asked them for their names. One of them said his name was Leopoldo. He said that was his war name. In all this underground, everybody has a war name. This was done for safety in Cuba. So when everybody came to exile, everyone was known by their war names.
And the other one did give me his name, but I can't recall. I have been trying to recall. It was something like Angelo. I have never been able to remember, and I couldn't be exact on this name, but the other one I am exact on; I remember perfectly.
Mr. Liebeler.
Let me ask you this before you go ahead with the story. Which one of the men told you that they were members of JURE and did most of the talking? Was it the American?
Mrs. Odio.
The American had not said a word yet.
Mr. Liebeler.
Which one of the Cubans?
Mrs. Odio.
The American was in the middle. They were leaning against the staircase. There was a tall one. Let me toll you, they both looked very greasy like the kind of low Cubans, not educated at all. And one was on the heavier side and had black hair. I recall one of them had glasses, if I remember. We have been trying to establish, my sister and I, the identity of this man. And one of them, the tall one, was the one called Leopoldo. Mr. LIEBELER. He did most of the talking?
Mrs. Odio.
He did most of the talking. The other one kept quiet, and the American, we will call him Leon, said just a few little words in Spanish, trying to be cute, but very few, like "Hola," like that in Spanish.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did you have a chain on the door, or was the door completely opened?
Mrs. Odio.
I had a chain.
Mr. Liebeler.
Was the chain fastened?
Mrs. Odio.
No; I unfastened it after a little while when they told me they were members of JURE, and were trying to let me have them come into the house. When I said no, one of them said, "We are very good friends of your father." This struck me, because I didn't think my father could have such kind of friends, unless he knew them from anti-Castro activities. He gave me so many details about where they saw my father and what activities he was in. I mean, they gave me almost incredible details about things that somebody who knows him really would or that somebody informed well knows. And after a little while, after they mentioned my father, they started talking about the American.
He said, "You are working in the underground." And I said, "No, I am sorry say I am not working in the underground." And he said, "We wanted you to meet this American. His name is Leon Oswald." He repeated it twice. Then my sister Annie by that time was standing near the door. She had come to see what was going on. And they introduced him as an American who was very much interested in the Cuban cause. And let me see, if I recall exactly what they said about him. I don't recall at the time I was at the door things about him.
I recall a telephone call that I had the next day from the so-called Leopoldo, so I cannot remember the conversation at the door about this American.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did your sister hear this man introduced as Leon Oswald?
Mrs. Odio.
She says she doesn't recall. She could not say that it is true. I mean, even though she said she thought I had mentioned the name very clearly, and I had mentioned the names of the three men.
Mr. Liebeler.
But she didn't remember it?
Mrs. Odio.
No; she said I mentioned it, because I made a comment. This I don't recall. I said, "I am going to see Antonio Alentado," which is one of the leaders of the JURE here in Dallas. And I think I just casually said, "I am going to mention these names to him to see if he knows any of them." But I forgot about them.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did your sister see the men?
Mrs. Odio.
She saw the three of them.
Mr. Liebeler.
Have you discussed this with her since that time?
Mrs. Odio.
I just had to discuss it because it was bothering me. I just had to know.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did she think it was Oswald?
Mrs. Odio.
Well, her reaction to it when Oswald came on television, she almost passed out on me, just like I did the day at work when I learned about the assassination of the President. Her reaction was so obvious that it was him, I mean. And my reaction, we remember Oswald the day he came to my house because he had not shaved and he had a kind of a very, I don't know how to express it, but some little hairs like if you haven't shaved, but it is not a thick moustache, but some kind of shadow. That is something I noticed. And he was wearing--the other ones were wearing white dirty shirts, but he was wearing a long sleeved shirt.
Mr. Liebeler.
What kind of shirt was it, a white shirt?
Mrs. Odio.
No; it was either green or blue, and he had it rolled up to here.
Mr. Liebeler.
Almost to his elbows?
Mrs. Odio.
No; less than that, just the ends of the sleeves.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he have a tie?
Mrs. Odio.
No tie.
Mr. Liebeler.
Was it a sport shirt, or working shirt?
Mrs. Odio.
He had it open. I don't know if he had a collar or not, but it was open. And the other one had a white undershirt. One of them was very hairy. Where was I? I just want to remember everything.
Mr. Liebeler.
You mentioned when your sister saw Oswald's picture on television that she almost passed out. Did she recognize him, do you know, as the man that had been in the apartment?
Mrs. Odio.
She said, "Sylvia, you know that man?" And I said, "Yes," and she said, "I know him." "He was the one that came to our door, and it couldn't be so, could it?"
That was our first interview. We were very much concerned after that. We were concerned and very scared, because I mean, it was such a shock.
This man, the other one, the second Cuban, took out a letter written in Spanish, and the content was something like we represent the revolutionary counsel, and we are making a big movement to buy arms for Cuba and to help overthrow the dictator Castro, and we want you to translate this letter and write it in English and send a whole lot of them to different industries to see if we can get some results.
This same petition had been asked of me by Alentado who was one of the leaders of JURE, here in Dallas. He had made this petition to me, "Sylvia, let's write letters to different industries to see if we can raise. some money." I had told him too, I was very busy. So I asked and I said, "Are you sent by Alentado? Is this a petition?"
Mr. Liebeler.
You mentioned this Alentado who was one of the JURE representatives here in Dallas. Is that his full name?
Mrs. Odio.
His name is Antonio.
Mr. Liebeler.
Do you know a man by the name of George Rodriguez Alvareda?
Mrs. Odio.
Yes.
Mr. Liebeler.
Who is he?
Mrs. Odio.
He is another member of JURE. And at the time, a little after that, after December. I was more in contact with him, and I will tell you why later. They are all members of JURE here in Dallas, working hard.
And so I asked him if they were sent by him, and he said, "No". And I said, "Do you know Eugeino?" This is the war name for_ _ _ _.That is his war name and everybody underground knows him as Eugenio. So I didn't mention his real name. He didn't know.
Mr. Liebeler.
Who did you ask this?
Mrs. Odio.
I asked these men when they came to the door--I asked if they had been sent by Alentado, became I explained to them that he had already asked me to do the letters and he said no. And I said, "Were you sent by Eugenio," and he said no. And I said, "Were you sent by Ray," and he said no. And I said, "Well, is this on your own?"
And he said, "We have just come from New Orleans and we have been trying to get this organized, this movement organized down there, and this is on on our own, but we think we could do some kind of work." This was all talked very fast, not as slow as I am saying it now. You know how fast Cubans talk. And he put the letter back in his pocket when I said no. And then I think I asked something to the American, trying to be nice, "Have you ever been to Cuba?" And he said, "No, I have never been to Cuba."
And I said, "Are you interested in our movement?" And he said, "Yes."
This I had not remembered until lately. I had not spoken much to him and I said, "If you will excuse me, I have to leave," and I repeated, "I am going to write to my father and tell him you have come to visit me."
And he said, "Is he still in the Isle of Pines?" And I think that was the extent of the conversation. They left, and I saw them through the window leaving in a car. I can't recall the car. I have been trying to.
Mr. Liebeler.
Do you know which one of the men was driving?
Mrs. Odio.
The tall one, Leopoldo.
Mr. Liebeler.
Leopoldo?
Mrs. Odio.
Yes; oh, excuse me, I forgot something very important. They kept mentioning that they had come to visit me at such a time of night, it was almost 9 o'clock, because they were leaving for a trip. And two or three times they said the same thing.
They said, "We may stay until tomorrow, or we might leave tomorrow night, but please excuse us for the hour." And he mentioned two or three times they were leaving for a trip. I didn't ask where, and I had the feeling they were leaving for Puerto Rico or Miami.
Mr. Liebeler.
But they did not indicate where they were going?
Mrs. Odio.
The next day Leopoldo called me. I had gotten home from work, so I imagine it must have been Friday. And they had come on Thursday. I have been trying to establish that. He was trying to get fresh with me that night. He was trying to be too nice, telling me that I was pretty, and he started like that. That is the way he started the conversation. Then he said, "What do you think of the American?" And I said, "I didn't think anything."
And he said, "You know our idea is to introduce him to the underground in Cuba, because he is great, he is kind of nuts." This was more or less--I can't repeat the exact words, because he was kind of nuts. He told us we don't have any guts, you Cubans, because President Kennedy should have been assassinated filter the Bay of Pigs, and some Cubans should have done that, because he was the one that was holding the freedom of Cuba actually. And I started getting a little upset with the conversation.
And he said, "It is so easy to do it." He has told us. And he (Leopoldo) used two or three bad words, and I wouldn't repeat it in Spanish. And he repeated again they were leaving for a trip and they would like very much to see me on their return to Dallas. Then he mentioned something more about Oswald. They called him Leon. He never mentioned the name Oswald.
Mr. Liebeler.
He never mentioned the name of Oswald on the telephone?
Mrs. Odio.
He never mentioned his last name. He alway. s referred to the American or Leon.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he mention his last name the night before?
Mrs. Odio.
Before they left I asked their names again, and he mentioned their names again.
Mr. Liebeler.
But he did not mention Oswald's name except as Leon?
Mrs. Odio.
On the telephone conversation he referred to him as Leon or American. He said he had been a Marine and he was so interested in helping the Cubans, and he was terrific. That is the words he more or less used, in Spanish, that he was terrific. And I don't remember what else he said, or something that he was coming back or something, and he would see me. It's been a long time and I don't remember too well, that is more or less what he said.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did you have an opinion at that time as to why Leopoldo called you back? What was his purpose in calling you back?
Mrs. Odio.
At first, I thought he was just trying to get fresh with me. The second time, it never occurred to me until I went to my psychiatrist.
I used to go to see Dr. Einspruch in the Southwestern Medical School, and I used to tell him all the events that happened to me during the week. And he relates that I mentioned to him the fact that these men had been at my door, and the fact that these Cubans were trying to get in the underground, and thought I was a good contact for it, they were simply trying to introduce him. Anyhow, I did not know for what purpose.
My father and mother are prisoners, and you never know if they can blackmail you or they are going to get them out of there, if you give them a certain amount of money. You never know what to expect. I expect anything. Later on I did establish opinions, because you can't help but establish opinions.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did you establish that opinion after the assassination or before the assassination?
Mrs. Odio.
This first opinion that I mentioned to my psychiatrist, I did not give it a second thought. I forgot to tell Alentado about it; except 3 days later I wrote to my father after they came, and mentioned the fact that the two men had called themselves friends of his. And later in December, because the letter takes a long time to get here, he writes me back, "I do not know any of these men. Do not get involved with any of them."
Mr. Liebeler.
You have already given us a copy of the letter that you received from your father in which he told you that these people were not his friends, and told you not to get involved with them?
Mrs. Odio.
That's right.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did you tell your father the names of these men when you wrote to him?
Mrs. Odio.
Yes.
Mr. Liebeler.
Your father did not, however, mention their names in his letter, did he?
Mrs. Odio.
He mentioned their war names, because this was the only thing I knew. I probably put an Americano came too, two Cubans with an American, and I gave the names of the Cubans.
Mr. Liebeler.
The copy of the letter that you gave to me this morning, we will mark as Odio Exhibit No. 1.
Mrs. Odio.
He mentioned in the second paragraph, "You are very alone there in. Dallas. You don't have anybody, so please do not open your door to anybody that calls themselves my friends."
Mr. Liebeler.
I have initialed the letter and I would like to have you put your initials under my initials for the purpose of identifying the exhibit.
Mrs. Odio.
Yes, okay.
Mr. Liebeler.
The letter is in Spanish, and you have underlined certain parts of it about three-quarters of the way down, in Spanish. Would you read that translation to us?
[stuff deleted]
------------------------------------[Con't]
Mrs.Odio.
[viewing film]. The man from the back with the glasses, I have seen him, the tall thin one. I would like to see the beginning where the man started coming in.
(Film was rerun.)
Mrs. Odio.
You see the one with the glasses, that thin man. He doesn't have a mustache, though.
Mr. Liebeler.
That third man there?
Mrs. Odio.
I will show you the back when he comes. The man over to the right in the white shirt from the back, that looks so familiar.
Mr. Liebeler.
That one right over there?
Mrs. Odio.
Right; he has the same build.
Mr. Liebeler.
Can you back it up, John? Let me ask you this now, Sylvia. Did you recognize Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. Odio.
Oh, yes; definitely. He made a television appearance. He looked much more similar than the pictures from New Orleans. He had the same mustache here.
Mr. Liebeler.
In the television appearance?
Mrs. Odio.
Yes.
Mr. Liebeler.
What about in the pictures that you saw in the police station of him standing against the wall when he walked out of the police station, did that look like the man that was in your apartment?
Mrs. Odio.
Yes.
Mr. Liebeler.
What about his voice? Did you recognize any similarity in his voice?
Mrs. Odio.
No. I don't know if it was because in the television it changed, or something, and he didn't speak too much that day, and it is hard to remember a voice after such a long time.
Mr. Liebeler.
After looking at this picture, are you more convinced, or less convinced, or do you still have about the same feeling that you had before you looked at it that the man who was in your apartment late in September was the same man as Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. Odio.
I have to be careful about that, because I have the same feeling that it was, but at the same time I have been looking at papers for months and months of pictures, and these help you to remember too much. I wish I could isolate the incident without remembering the other pictures. I have a feeling there are certain pictures that do not resemble him. It was not the Oswald that was standing in front of my door. He was kind of tired looking. He had a little smile, but he was sunken in in the face that day. More skinny, I would say.
Mr. Liebeler.
Well, do you have any doubts in your mind after looking at these pictures that the man that was in your apartment was the same man as Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. Odio.
I don't have any doubts.
Mr. Liebeler.
Do you want to run the picture once more, John?
Mrs. Odio.
What I am trying to establish is the man with the bald in the back was similar to the profile, but he seems lighter in this picture. But the men looked like Mexicans. They did not look like Cubans.
Mr. Liebeler.
Now we have here two pictures that have been made from films of this movie.
Mrs. Odio.
In that picture he didn't resemble that at all [pointing].
Mr. Liebeler.
You are referring to Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B; the man marked with the number 2?
Mrs. Odio.
That's right.
Mr. Liebeler.
That is the same man you have been talking about as looking similar?
Mrs. Odio.
That's right. But in the motion picture he looks thinner and I was trying to give you an idea of the man that I saw that day.
Mr. Liebeler.
Do you think that the man you saw in the motion picture, who is the same man marked number 2 in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B, could have been the same man that was in your apartment with Oswald?
Mrs. Odio.
I think he had a mustache, and this man in the apartment does not have any mustache.
Mr. Liebeler.
But otherwise, you think that he looks similar?
Mrs. Odio.
They have the same stature and same build and profile. I can say he was standing to the side in the door, and his hair was pulled back on one side.
Mr. Liebeler.
Do you want to run through it again, please?
(Film was rerun.)
Mrs. Odio.
The picture that resembled most, even though his hair was not so cut that day.
Mr. Liebeler.
You have referred to the individual that was walking out of the police station?
Mrs. Odio.
With his back.
Mr. Liebeler.
He had a mustache, and he had glasses on?
Mrs. Odio.
That day he did not have a mustache. He just had glasses, and he would take them off and on. Lee Oswald--Leon is fatter in this picture than what I actually saw him.
Mr. Liebeler.
You think this man standing on the corner, who is No. 2 in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B, is the same man you saw walking out of the police station?
Mrs. Odio.
No.
Mr. Liebeler.
It is a different man?
Mrs. Odio.
That's right. The one that is walking out of the door, kind of thin-looking individual, is darker.
Mr. Liebeler.
Is the man that was walking out of the police station?
Mrs. Odio.
You want me to point it out?
Mr. Liebeler.
Yes. Run it back. I think we should indicate in the record there was a confusion in my mind, because I think it is pretty clear that the man that was walking out of the police station is a different man than is in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B.
Mrs. Odio.
He looked greasy looking. I will tell you when [looking at film].
Mr. Liebeler.
Is it that man with the sunglasses that walked out of the door?
Mrs. Odio.
That is the picture I see. That picture is what I mean.
Mr. Liebeler.
Yes. There he is again [indicating individual with mustache leaving police station with Carios Bringuier and others depicted on film].
Mrs. Odio.
There he is again; big ears, but from the front, he doesn't resemble it. It is the same build from the back, that thin neck.
Mr. Liebeler.
You think that that man we have Just seen in the picture resembles one of the men that was in your apartment?
Mrs. Odio.
From the back, because I remember that I put the light on on the porch, and I saw them get in the car. I wanted to be sure they were gone.
Mr. Liebeler.
But it is clearly not the same individual?
Mrs. Odio.
No, sir; clearly not the same. I am trying to see something, to put something in paper that would make me remember. [The film was rerun but the witness did not recognize anyone depicted on it except as indicated above.]
Mr. Liebeler.
Thank you very much, Mrs. Odio.
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Mrs. Odio.
No, sir.
Mr. Liebeler.
That is not the man that was with Leon when he came to your apartment?
Mrs. Odio.
No. I wish I could point him to you. One was very tall and slim, kind of. He had glasses, because he took them off and put them back on before he left, and they were not sunglasses. And the other one was short, very Mexican looking. Have you ever seen a short Mexican with lots of thick hair and a lot of hair on his chest?
Mr. Liebeler.
So there was was a shorter one and a tall one, and the shorter one was rather husky?
Mrs. Odio.
He was not as big as this man.
Mr. Liebeler.
Not as big as the man in Exhibit No. 237?
Mrs. Odio.
That's right.
Mr. Liebeler.
IS that the man in Exhibit No. 237 that had a pushed back spot on his head?
Mrs. Odio.
It was different. In the middle of his head it was thick, and it looked like he didn't have any hair, and the other side, I didn't notice that.
Mr. Liebeler.
This was the taller man; is that right? The one known as Leopoldo?
Mrs. Odio.
Yes.
Mr. Liebeler.
About how much did the taller man weigh, could you guess?
Mrs. Odio.
He was thin--about 165 pounds.
Mr. Liebeler.
How tall was he, about?
Mrs. Odio.
He was about 3 1/2 inches, almost 4 inches taller than I was. Excuse me, he couldn't have. Maybe it was just in the position he was standing. I know that made him look taller, and I had no heels on at the time, so he must have been 6 feet; yes.
Mr. Liebeler.
And the shorter man was about how tall, would you say? Was he taller or shorter than Oswald?
Mrs. Odio.
Shorter than Oswald.
Mr. Liebeler.
About how much, could you guess?
Mrs. Odio.
Five feet seven, something like that.
Mr. Liebeler.
So he could have been 2 or 3 inches shorter than Oswald?
Mrs. Odio.
That's right.
Mr. Liebeler.
He weighed about how much, would you say?
Mrs. Odio.
170 pounds, something like that, because he was short, but he was stocky, and he was the one that had the strange complexion.
Mrs. Liebeler.
Was it pock marked, would you say?
Mrs. Odio.
No; it was like it wasn't, because he was, oh, it was like he had been in the sun for a long time.
Mr. Liebeler.
Let's terminate now and we will resume when we show the film to you tonight.
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Larry is right on as usual. The camps seem to have been no big deal. I think there were 4(?) of them in the general vicinity. I have some of Harold Weisberg's reports where he was trying to locate were they once were.
It was Rich Lauchli that supplied the dynamite that was in the U-Haul at McLaney's house.
James, if you take a look at footnote 86 in my book you will find reference to several other documents on the CD that corroborate and expand on David's post. I would be very surprised to have seen Robertson at any of these camps and I'll expand on that on the new Ferri thread John set up.Weisberg worked for Garrison investigating numerous rumors about 1963 camps and Garrison would have loved to find Ferrie, Arcacha Smith or any of his suspects associated with them. However that turned out just not to be the case. Indeed the individual who seems to have facilitated the 1963 camp in David's memo was none other than Ricardo Davis. Bringier identified him as the "purchasing officer" and person who selected the site. Al Osner tracked down the Christian Democratic Party folks who organized the camp and supplied people for it and interviewed Vega in Miami. The upshot seems to be that Davis had promised financial support from some wealthy Texans and nothing ever emerged, the whole thing was pretty low key, underfunded and short term and everybody bailed out after they heard about the FBI raid on the McClaney farm when they picked up the U-Haul.
However it is interesting that Vega mentions that the American "trainer", apparently someone other than Davis was ex-Navy, large and red faced and claimed ot have been at the Bay of Pigs on Destroyer Escort 510. Sound like anyone you know?
-- Larry
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Posted on another thread but this might help here:
FEBRUARY 5, 1967
TO: JIM GARRSION, DISTRICT ATTORNEY
FROM: JIM ALCOCK, ASSISTANT DISCTRICT ATTORNEY
RE: ANGEL VEGA
At 10:00 PM on January 31, 1967, CHARLES JONAU and I spoke to
ANGEL VEGA. This meeting, arranged by LAUREANO BATISTA,
Took place at the headquarters of the Christian Democratic Movement
located at 1732 N.W. 7th Street, Miami, Florida….
ANGEL VEGA is a slightly built Cuban male appearing to be in his
late twenties. He was one of the twenty Cubans who trained at a camp
in the New Orleans area. VEGA arrived at eth camp sometime near
the middle or end of June, 1963. When he arrived, there were only
four or five others at the camp site. The house and grounds where they
stayed were completely run down, giving the appearance they had not
been inhabited for quite a while. Their first task was to refurbish the
house and its conveniences.
All personnel stayed in the house which consisted of three rooms, a
kitchen and two baths. In addition to this, there was a screened porch
on the front and back of the house. The grounds had a swimming pool
which was constantly fed by an underground spring. Also, there was a
stream or bayou running through the property. Within sight of the property
was another house. The camp was served by a dirt road which VEGA recalls
was never used by vehicular traffic during his entire stay at the camp. ANGEL VEGA is positive he could find this camp site today, and would be willing to come to
New Orleans on a weekend for that purpose.
Training at the camp was principally limited to a physical fitness program. Daily exercises were taken along with swimming lessons. The men at the camp also practiced fording the stream that ran through the property. At no time did the men stray farther than about 200 yards from the house. No shooting whatsoever took place at the camp. They had two or three old Springfield rifles and M-1 carbine. These weapons were never fired. The M-1 carbine was used to show the men how to disassemble and assemble the weapon. During the course of many of the exercises, the men would carry small logs to simulate the weight of a weapon. Also, these logs were used in mock hand-to-hand combat training.
About two days before the cache of explosives was found at the other camp, ANGEL VEGA and two other camp members left for Miami with the Castro agent, FERNANDO FERNANDEZ. Shortly thereafter all Cubans at the camp returned to Miami. This was about August 1, 1963. Therefore, the camp was in operation for about five or six weeks.
While at the camp, ANGEL heard rifle shots and explosions from the direction of the other camp. However, at no time did VEGA and his fellow Cubans know of the existence of the other camp. This came to their knowledge only after the explosives were found.
As ANGEL recalls, the camp site was owned by two American males in their fifties or sixties. He feels they were in the insurance business. All contacts with them were made by RICARDO (DICKEY) DAVIS. They came to the camp occasionally to see if the men needed any food. DAVIS came to the camp about 8 to 10 time, mostly bringing food when he came. On one occasion, he brought his wife and he did some target shooting with a 22 caliber pistol.
ANGEL VEGA never heard the name of SERGIO ARCACHA SMITH or LINDBERGH mentioned and never saw any other Americans at the camp with the exception of the two previously mentioned. Angel remembers the following men to have been at the camp with him:
VICTOR PANEQUE 2ND in Command
FIDEL ZALDIVAR 1st in Command
……PERIU VICTORIA
MIGUEL CARBALLIDO
HENRY INFANTE
RAUL FANTONE
FERNANDO FERNANDEZ
SERGIO (NOT ARCACHA SMITH)
As you can see, ANGEL could only remember the first name of one man and only the last name of another. LAUREANO BATISTA, however, is still trying to locate a complete camp roster for us. He is also trying to locate the names if the Americans who owned the camp. If he is successful, he has promised to mail the information to me in New Orleans.
I feel that ANGEL VEGA was completely candid and cooperative throughout the interview. However, as far as the movement and its key personnel are concerned, we should expect some hedging.
JIM ALCOCK
..............----
This is the Slidell camp that was financed by "a group of very wealthy Texans and Louisianeans (Oil men) who had a lot of money and were willing to back any anti-Castro plan that would give them land were they could have a camp to train."
Most of the men were recruited by Victor "Diego" Panique who was then in New Jersey. They were to train for Somoza's "Nicaraguan Operation." Somoza had actually gone to Miami to do some personal recruiting.
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There was also Angel Vega:
FEBRUARY 5, 1967
TO: JIM GARRSION, DISTRICT ATTORNEY
FROM: JIM ALCOCK, ASSISTANT DISCTRICT ATTORNEY
RE: ANGEL VEGA
At 10:00 PM on January 31, 1967, CHARLES JONAU and I spoke to
ANGEL VEGA. This meeting, arranged by LAUREANO BATISTA,
Took place at the headquarters of the Christian Democratic Movement
located at 1732 N.W. 7th Street, Miami, Florida….
ANGEL VEGA is a slightly built Cuban male appearing to be in his
late twenties. He was one of the twenty Cubans who trained at a camp
in the New Orleans area. VEGA arrived at eth camp sometime near
the middle or end of June, 1963. When he arrived, there were only
four or five others at the camp site. The house and grounds where they
stayed were completely run down, giving the appearance they had not
been inhabited for quite a while. Their first task was to refurbish the
house and its conveniences.
All personnel stayed in the house which consisted of three rooms, a
kitchen and two baths. In addition to this, there was a screened porch
on the front and back of the house. The grounds had a swimming pool
which was constantly fed by an underground spring. Also, there was a
stream or bayou running through the property. Within sight of the property
was another house. The camp was served by a dirt road which VEGA recalls
was never used by vehicular traffic during his entire stay at the camp. ANGEL VEGA is positive he could find this camp site today, and would be willing to come to
New Orleans on a weekend for that purpose.
Training at the camp was principally limited to a physical fitness program. Daily exercises were taken along with swimming lessons. The men at the camp also practiced fording the stream that ran through the property. At no time did the men stray farther than about 200 yards from the house. No shooting whatsoever took place at the camp. They had two or three old Springfield rifles and M-1 carbine. These weapons were never fired. The M-1 carbine was used to show the men how to disassemble and assemble the weapon. During the course of many of the exercises, the men would carry small logs to simulate the weight of a weapon. Also, these logs were used in mock hand-to-hand combat training.
About two days before the cache of explosives was found at the other camp, ANGEL VEGA and two other camp members left for Miami with the Castro agent, FERNANDO FERNANDEZ. Shortly thereafter all Cubans at the camp returned to Miami. This was about August 1, 1963. Therefore, the camp was in operation for about five or six weeks.
While at the camp, ANGEL heard rifle shots and explosions from the direction of the other camp. However, at no time did VEGA and his fellow Cubans know of the existence of the other camp. This came to their knowledge only after the explosives were found.
As ANGEL recalls, the camp site was owned by two American males in their fifties or sixties. He feels they were in the insurance business. All contacts with them were made by RICARDO (DICKEY) DAVIS. They came to the camp occasionally to see if the men needed any food. DAVIS came to the camp about 8 to 10 time, mostly bringing food when he came. On one occasion, he brought his wife and he did some target shooting with a 22 caliber pistol.
ANGEL VEGA never heard the name of SERGIO ARCACHA SMITH or LINDBERGH mentioned and never saw any other Americans at the camp with the exception of the two previously mentioned. Angel remembers the following men to have been at the camp with him:
VICTOR PANEQUE 2ND in Command
FIDEL ZALDIVAR 1st in Command
……PERIU VICTORIA
MIGUEL CARBALLIDO
HENRY INFANTE
RAUL FANTONE
FERNANDO FERNANDEZ
SERGIO (NOT ARCACHA SMITH)
As you can see, ANGEL could only remember the first name of one man and only the last name of another. LAUREANO BATISTA, however, is still trying to locate a complete camp roster for us. He is also trying to locate the names if the Americans who owned the camp. If he is successful, he has promised to mail the information to me in New Orleans.
I feel that ANGEL VEGA was completely candid and cooperative throughout the interview. However, as far as the movement and its key personnel are concerned, we should expect some hedging.
JIM ALCOCK
..............----
This is the Slidell camp that was financed by "a group of very wealthy Texans and Louisianeans (Oil men) who had a lot of money and were willing to back any anti-Castro plan that would give them land were they could have a camp to train."
Most of the men were recruited by Victor "Diego" Panique who was then in New Jersey. They were to train for Somoza's "Nicaraguan Operation."
-
Does anyone seriously believe that Castro would still be in power (or even alive) if he killed a sitting US President and the US knew of this? 'Nuf said.
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So Dixie, what's the book?
This is something that I have also been considering. I have read so many books that seem to have the very same information, and with no citation. I do know of some instances when I discovered the original information was bogus to begin with and no one ever actually checked it out through the years. I am unable at the moment, to recall examples of this though.I have also read books with relatively well know facts that an author has given wrong info. In fact, recently I read a book by a well known author, in a recommeded book, that stated Wesley Frazer and his sister, drove LHO to work at the TSBD that morning!!
I had to read that three times to make sure I read it correctly. This disappointed me and I felt the writer should have known better then that. I had that thought in mind, when reading the entire book. In fact, I believe I did see some other such misinfo. Perhaps the writer only wrote what he had researched for his main thesis and did not bother with his minor points.
Right now, I am reading a brand new book, that is full of a lot of new info by another well known researcher-writer. These things I have never heard or read any place before. He does state that he got a lot of the info from another researcher, who has done the specific research So, I am unable to know if any of it is all new and true facts or misinfo or even disinfo. There are citations I can check out, but many things have nothing, except the other researchers name as a reference. This is somewhat disturbing to me.
Dixie
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John,
Gordon has some great sources on Milteer:
http://www.cuban-exile.com/doc_051-075/doc0062c.html
Always good to read the original doc. Subject is Milteer, Informant is Somersett.
And the followup interview:
http://www.cuban-exile.com/doc_051-075/doc0062e.html
Some excerpts:
I am satisfied that this man beyond doubt knew that this was going to happen, and from the impression that I got from him this conspiracy originated in New Orleans, probably some in Miami, and different parts of the Country, probably in California. And I am pretty sure California had a lot to do with it, because he mentioned Dr. Swift very often, in his conversations, what a great man he was and that he had already predicted that Kennedy would be killed, before he got out of office. So, that is about the story as to the important information that I got from him.
Q: Mr. ______, did you make mention of the fact, that this Mr. Milteer had explained to you, or had made a remark to you about Miami, something about Miami?
A: Well, he said, he made a remark to me on the way, he said that Kennedy could have been killed in Miami, but somebody called the F.B.I. and give the thing away, and of course, he was well guarded and everything went "pluey", and everybody kept quiet, and waited for Texas.
Q: Do you think he was trying to put across to you that this Oswald might have been here in Miami at the time?
A: Well, I asked him that, but he wouldn't answer me.
Q: I don't know how the records are, whether the man was working there (BREAKS IN) - I don't know either, but I asked him, I said "Do you think Oswald was here in Miami to assassinate the President? " and he just cut it off, he wouldn't answer me.
Q: He never answered you at all?
A: Never answered me at all.
Q: Do you think that he knows this Oswald personally, or knows anything about him?
A: Well, I believe that he does, I believe that if he doesn't know Oswald person, he knows the people in Miami or New Orleans that was doing business with the group which he belonged to. And that is where the infiltration was made into it, into this man's group, it was either Miami or New Orleans.
Q: These are two separates groups are they not? They are separated widely in their beliefs so to speak. How do you think they would be coming together?
A: From the impression he give me, and what he told me, was that Oswald group was Pro- Castro, and that they were infiltrated, and their leaders, somebody close to them was given money to infiltrate their group, and pay them to kill Kennedy, and that would throw, if anybody did get caught, that would throw the entire case into the laps of the Communist.
Q: In other words you say that this Constitutional Party, that has not formed yet, or some party to that.....
(BREAKS IN) - Yes I believe what they call the Patriot Organizations over the country, now he talked very briefly about Billy Hargrave who is on the air every now and then, who had raised a lot of money, for the underground, and Swift, and Kenneth Golf, and many others, he even spoke one time, you know uh, uh, Billy Estes had been persecuted very much by the Kennedy Administration. And that he was a man, who, was in a position to raise a lot of money, an that in Texas there were a lot of people who could raise a lot of money, and that they had a good underground in Texas and California. In fact, he says that Illinois is very strong, and he said that Kennedy didn't have a chance, to get away with what he had done, because the Patriots knew that he was in the stages of delivering the country over to the Communists.
Q: Did he make mention of any persons that this Oswald may have contacted, or may have known?
A: No, he didn't mention Oswald directly being acquainted with anybody. The only thing that he was down on was that this group had been infiltrated by the Patriot underground and arranged from there to have the execution carried out, and drop the responsibility right into the laps of the Communists, their association, or Castro.
Q: Did he give any indication that money passed hands from the Patriot groups to...
(BREAKS IN) - Well, yes, he said, "Of course there was a lot of money".
Q: Did he mention that there was a lot of money?
A: Yes, there was a lot of money involved, and it came not only from the average Patriot, but from men who could afford to contribute. And that this has been in progress for sometime.
................................
Q: He didn't say when he had been in Texas?
A. No, he didn't say. He had been in New Orleans, Houston, different places in Louisiana and in Texas.
There is no question in my mind that Milteer did not know that the ground work was being set, maybe, in 5-6 different states to kill the President There is no question in my mind in the conversation; the man couldn't guess, he couldn't guess all the things,, before hand. He couldn't guess, in my opinion, that the President would be shot from a window, and it happened this away, and I just don't believe that he was guessing all these things; I don't believe that he is guessing about the stuff he is talking about now, because he is too conscientious to get away from the assassination of Kennedy and get on the road to something else, because he says there is no use wasting any time discussing the assassination of Kennedy because Kennedy is dead and Oswald can't squawk on anybody. Now, this was before he was killed. When we left from the hotel and went out to eat, when we got to Anchor's Restaurant over at West Columbia, a man walked out who knows Mims, I don't know who he was, and he said to Mims, "Well, Oswald has just been shot", he said, "He has?", he said, "Yes, he has just been shot", and we couldn't get into that restaurant, and we had to go to the Piggy Park Drive-Inn, so on the way we turned the radio on and sure enough it come on that he had been shot.
Q: What was Milteer's reaction?
A: Milteer said, "That makes it work perfect, now, the Jews killed Kennedy and the Jews killed Oswald" he says, "Now, we have no worry". But I can't understand, when he left the hotel with me, I am satisfied that he made along distance call, because he come back with this change.
I don't know ho to figure him out too much, because he seems to know too much, and what he predicts comes true.
Q: Where do you think this money would have come from?
A: Well, there is no telling, you see, like he said, when he mentioned the name Leander H. Perez; this man was a judge down there.
Q: Where was he a judge at?
A: Plakman Parish, that is right outside of New Orleans. This man has taken a stand for States Rights against segregation, and he has been ex-communicated from the Catholic Church on the stand he has taken in New Orleans. Well, this Milteer seems to be a friend to him, or to know him very well, and several other people in the State of Louisiana and Texas. But he didn't go to work and give me all the names and addresses, but he give me to understand that he knew them, and had associated with them.
Q: Do you think that he could have been the Treasurer or that he could have been collecting this money?
A: No, I don't believe that he was the Treasurer, no, I don't believe he was. But I do believe that he was one of the main agitators traveling over the country in connections with this, and he knows a whole lot more, I am satisfied, than what he told me.
Q: Who is very strong in these organizations, who has strength enough, and could be trusted enough to compose an agreement between two organizations or two people?
A: Well, I tell you something, the impression he give me. I don't think there was any agreement with this little flim-flam organization, that Oswald belonged to, I think that probably in New Orleans or in Miami, maybe N.Y., maybe Chicago that the agreement was reached to infiltrate this unbeknowing to them, and to agitate the killing, and to let them do it, and to pay somebody to infiltrate to get it done by this organization.
The main file:
http://www.cuban-exile.com/menu2/2jfk-miami.html
In Craig Roberts book 'Kill Zone, a sniper looks at dealey plaza' which is an excellent book, he argues the point that the assassination would take place in either miami in early november or in dallas in late november. There could have been a plan to kill him in miami. Miami was trafficante and cuban ground, somersett talked with milteer about it and milteer, mileer hints at getting him in miami.should this have been carried out in miami, this means that there could have been another patsy waiting to be set up. as i recall anthony summers in his book 'conspiracy' describes three men who were in russia around the same time as LHO and were possibly intelligence assets, if we can ascertain whether they were in miami at the time, we might be able to find whether there was a second patsy.
john
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If memory serves me, it was the Reverend Wesley Swift that operated out of Lancaster. Swift was investigated for supposedly predicted the JFK wouldn't be around in 1964 from his pulpit sometime during the fall of 1963. The FBI could not find any evidence of this.
It was shortly after Milteer visited Gale (Dec. 22, 1963) that Swift and Gale had a violent parting of the ways (Dec. 26, 1963). Gale claimed that it was because of an argument over money. Swift reportedly took money from two old ladies. :-)
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I don't want to pretend to know anything about a Paramiiitary Group in Barstow, except that I do believe there was one there....and perhaps there is stil one! I did hear this many years ago!
In addition, I also know there was at least two around the Lancaster/Palmdale area. I am unsure if this was William Gale or Wesley Swifts Christain Identity Group or not. Although I do know they recruited Ed Butler, right out of Lancaster.
I also heard that Chauncey Holt was involved with a group around the Lancaster/Palmdale area.
I do live in the above County and was told of such a Paramilitary Group there, by a retired Sheriff friend that use to go out there on occasion. He did mention a Posse Comitatus Group, which did make me think of
Gales group.
Even today, there are sections that are enclosed with gated guards. Most that I talk to wonder what is going on around there. (Dixie Dea)
Thanks for posting that, Dixie.
If I remember correctly, I believe William Gale actually formed the Posse Comitatus group in the late 1960's. Maybe Dave Boylan knows more about that.
The Barstow group was very secretive and was made up of lots of ex military guys. I also suspect that the Agency had a few assets entrenched there as well.
James
Harry/Dixie/James,
Thanks for the info. Good exchange!
It was Gale's ideas and writings that lead to the formation of the Posse Comitatus.
Gale was also friendly with Sen. William Rainich of Louisiana. Rainich held LUAC (Louisiana Unamerican Committee) meetings in 1957 where his chief witness against the communists and their influence on the equal rights movement was Guy Banister.
Dave
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Hey Harry,
Were the California MM members of DePugh's group, Gale's Rangers or Goff's/Roquemore's Soldiers of the Cross?
Also, Edgar Bradley. I've seen conflicting reports that he was a member of the MM. Do you know anything about this?
Here's a bit from a report of a conversation with Undersheriff J. Short's
dated April 16, 1969 from "RFK Special Unit Senator" files:
Quoting:
Undersheriff Short was contacted via telephone to determine the
circumstances surrounding the death of Dallas C. Roquemore.
This portion of the investigation came to the attention of this unit from
Keith D. Gilbert who stated that according to Dennis Mower, Roquemore was
murdered by Edgar Eugene Bradly. [sic]
Undersheriff Short stated that his office conducted an extensive
investigation into the death of Roquemore and found no evidence of foul
play. Short related the circumstances of the death as follows:
Dallas Roquemore and his wife Eileen left their children in Weaversville,
California in the care of Eileen's younger brother Frank Allen Austin,
while on a trip to Southern California.
On returning to their home on January 4, 1964, Roquemore decided to play
a practical joke on Austin. Roquemore and his wife crawled to the house
and tried to scare Austin by making wolf call and Indian howls. Austin
got scared and grabbed a hand gun. In the meantime, Roquemore and Eileen
crawled under the hose front porch. Roquemore then threw a stone into
the bushes to further frighten young Austin. The joke worked. Austin
accidently discharged the hand gun sending a bullet through the floor of
the porch and into the head of Roquemore. Roquemore expired several hours
later.
Undersheriff Short states that his office investigated this death under
their DR #64-016. A polygraph examination was administered to Austin and
Eileen by CII examiner Hubert Lazier. Both subjects were cleared in the
death of Roquemore.
End quote.
Dave
Yes, there was the strong possibility that Kennedy would be in danger here in L.A. by some of my associates, Howard, Gabaldon and 'Others', that for the first time ever, I will now state would involve me in a doublecrossing setup that was very cunningly being worked, with connections between here and Mex.City area. (Harry Dean)Thanks, Harry, very interesting. Were you aware of an extremist group sniper training out near Barstow?
BTW, I would love any details you feel you can share on the Los Angeles set-up.
Cheers,
James
James
Re; the sniper group near Barstow, could easily been some of our
California Minutemen?, operating in several So. Cal areas doing
war games with most weapons that were more freely available in
those days. The reason for this possible explaination is because I
was a MM, member#28515 advising the feds. As you likely know
the MM were nationwide anti-Communist, trained para-military
groups. However they like JBS were anti-Eisenhower anti-Kennedy
and basically of the ULTRA-Conservative preference. There is to
much of this history known to me to go into. Cross- connections to
most other so-called Conservative organizations existed.
The L.A. set-up was just another part of the same situation explained
on the CD {did you get a copy?} and connected also to the same
people mentioned in it> I did not write the 'set-up' on the CD as it was
not then [1990] when I wrote the manuscript/book advisable.
I aim to lay it out for you in the next day or after Christmas in a
few days. It is my hope this information will be useful in your
investigation{s}
Harry
PS.
Have you info.on Captain, Rene' Valdez....Alpha 66 ? Bureau agents here
had me seek him out {1964} Valdez 66 office in L.A..The Bureau
was 'very concerned' about him then. I was at that time shown a picture of Valdez,
Never heared further on him except to say he soon dropped from sight.
I may have photo{s} of Swabeck, and will ck. soon. Ther are also some photos
of Valdez Alpha office location.
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No John, not really. Morales connections were primarily to gambling types, first in Havana and then in Vegas. Phillips did have some minor oil connections in Texas where he and his family owned some leases but there's no sign that he was a known quantity in the oil business - what we do know for sure that Phillips did make contacts with people who were willing to make contributions to the Anti-Castro cause. That included Kleberg of King Ranch in Texas and some other individuals in New Orleans. Primarily these were people who had been doing business in Cuba while Phillips was stationed there; there is a list of some of the companies in my 2004 supplement, in the appendix "The WAVE way".
There are some suggestions that Phillips may have approached other people doing off the books fund raising for projects perhaps not on the official CIA task list but that is very speculative at present and again, the individuals would primarily have been those with pre-Castro business holdings in Cuba.
Larry,
If memory serves me, wasn't William Trull associated with the King Ranch? Trull was reportedly Paulino Sierra's entree into certain circles when Sierra first started his new anti-Castro organization (JGCE).
Dave
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I've posted this before but it does show that some thought that Masen and Oswald looked alike:
Dallas T-1 (Frank Ellsworth) advised the remainder of the information originally reported by this informant is still correct as far as he knows.
‘They did tell me that about six weeks prior to November 22, 1963 one of the members of the Minute Men (they said they could not recall who) came to their house about 9:30 pm. He came to the front door and told the Informant’s wife that he wanted some ammunition. A man was with him. Both men stayed in the yard and did not enter the house. The INFORMANT got the ammunition and gave it to them. Neither thought any more about it until November 22, 1963 when he saw a newspaper photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald. Both noticed a close resemblance between Oswald and the man who was with the Minute Man a few weeks before. Both were afraid that he was Oswald and were afraid to say anything. Both said they felt that the Minute Men were involved in the assassination although that very little was said by members they knew following the assassination except to express satisfaction that it happened. I told INFORMANT I had someone in Dallas I wanted him to see and we arranged to do so on Oct. 28.
…Dallas T-1 advised “I picked up informant about 4:00 pm (10/28/64) and drove him to Dallas, Texas. I drove him to the vicinity of The Gun Shop, 7402 Harry Hines Blvd., a business operated by one JOHN THOMAS MASEN. I pointed out the business to the INFORMANT. We then drove by and observed several men in the front of the shop. The INFORMANT picked out MASEN from the group and identified him as the man he thought was OSWALD. I parked around the corner and the informant walked back to the shop. He returned about ten minutes later and said that MASEN recognized him when he entered the shop and appeared glad to see him. That they talked about guns a few minutes and Masen invited him to come back. The INFORMANT stated that he does not know if Masen is a member of the Minute Men or not.
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There's an aquaintence that they all have in common - Robert Morris. When Schmidt went to Dallas, one of the first people he met up with was Morris. When Walker needed a lawyer, he called Morris. After Loran Hall was arrested, he called Morris. When Hall needed an intro to the "oil men" he called Morris.
Dave
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Earlier, in a June 20 column by Robert S. Allen and Paul Scott it was reported that "For more than a month, the President and his top foreign policy advisors have been discussing a plan under which the U.S. would resume 'contact' with Castro on both 'an informal and formal basis'."
Hi David,
Do you know anything about Paul Scott? He wrote a post-assassination story linking Marilyn Martin to Prof Harold Isaacs.
Greg,
Don't know much about him other than he was considered a conservative reporter.
Dave
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(1) You mention several members of Interpen in your research. Did you discover if they were actually members of the Christian Defense League or were they just associates. I have got photographs and biographies of several of these people. They can be found here:
I don't believe that any members of Interpen were members of the CDL. Some members of Interpen travelled in the same circles because of their shared anti-communist and anti-Castro beliefs. Larry Howard was considered "ok" even though he was part Mexican.
The difficulty in this research is pinning labels on people. They just don't fit nice and tidy. Members of one organiztion could be members of many other organizations. One person could be a member of one or many of the following: Minutemen, John Birch Society, American Committee to Free Cuba, CDL, KKK, National States Rights Party, Patriotic Party, Constitution Party, California Rangers, etc. So when someone acts, what group are they representing? As Tommy Tarrents told Patsy Simms in The Klan, at the top of all these groups were a group of ex-military officers that directed the real dirty stuff. I'd make an educated guess and say that they group included Col. Gale, Adm. John Crommelin, and Gen. Pedro del Valle amongst others.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKinterpen.htm
(2) Why was the Christian Defense League so hostile to John Kennedy? His record in power was not particularly left-wing? Was it because he was a Catholic? Or was it because he was a Yankee?
In general because this group and others of the far-right would have disliked any president other then a Dan Smoot or William Gale. Or as noted by Joseph Milteer, an up and coming California conservative, Ronald Reagan.
John Kennedy was concerned enough about the ultra right wing to have a 189 page report commissioned by Myer Feldman. (RECORD NUMBER : 180-10074-10468)
(3) I was reading today about Lyndon Johnson being physically attacked by a group of right-wingers in Dallas during the 1960 presidential campaign. I suppose it just shows just how right-wing people were in Texas at the time.
(4) As someone living in the UK I am fascinated by the idea of right-wing religious groups. This seems to be a common theme in American history. In the UK (and I think in the rest of Europe), religious groups are either non-political or on the left. Why do you think this is?
As William Gale noted, it helped resolve the conflict of "love the fellow man" and anti-semitism and racism. If they weren't considered "fellow men" there was no conflict.
Dave
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The following appears in the October 31, 1963 issue of THE WANDERER, p. 6. THE WANDERER had a fairly small audience of right-wingers. The Taylor Caldwell that wrote the following letter is the well-known author and Bircher. TC is replying to Sheldon Emry's letter dated Oct 17 commenting on the extensive protection that JFK had around him on his trip to Duluth in early October.
President Kennedy in Danger?
Taylor Caldwell
I was deeply interested in Sheldon Emrey's [sic] account [Wanderer Forum, October 17th] of Air Force men, soldiers with rifles at the ready, Highway Patrol officers, helicopters, guards, etc., being out in full force day and night when President Kennedy visited Duluth. This account is most extraordinary-- but even more alarming, and not for the reasons Mr. Emery [sic] gives: "Mr. Kennedy is now showing a visible power in the soldiers that he had not openly displayed before."
Personally, and for many other reasons, I do not think Mr. Kennedy "is now showing a visible power...." Only a few months ago Mr. Kennedy mingled affably with crowds, shaking hands, moving among them, shrugging off Secret Service men and leaving them behind. Why, then, this sudden change?
In the first place, the world is becoming more and more turbulent daily, even hourly. This fact appears only in small items in the newspapers; apparently the press is being cautious about the terrible situation, and this is alarming in itself. Despite that test-ban treaty it is most obvious that Mr. Kennedy is quite aware that peace is not at hand and that, on the contrary, the international situation with respect to Communism is growing increasingly ominous. I receive hundreds of letters a year from behind the Iron Curtain, from fans of mine. Lately the letters are full of disquiet, a sense of disaster near at hand. Letters from my relatives in England and Ireland express great uneasiness. It is as if free men everywhere now "feel" a monster threat, even though a few months ago they were somewhat amused, as they wrote me, at America's "attitude towards Russia." Human besngs have instincts as well as lower animals, and it is obvious, to me at least, that human instinct is stirring in fear everywhere. We all know that there is not a spot on earth which is not now in a state of suppressed chaos or open danger or marching with soldiers or war or intense uneasiness.
The enemies of freedom and God are everywhere in every country of the West. It is possible that Mr. Kennedy is in personal jeopardy from them, a matter which is not being mentioned in the newpapers. Indeed, it is very probable. Presidents have been murdered before in our history, and in less dreadful times. Among our enemies there are many madmen. I receive quite a number of pro-Communist and "liberal" periodicals, and some are quite inflammatory against Mr. Kennedy. The tone of the "liberal" periodicals--some of our big monthly magazines for instance--are wrathful against our President. It seems that they had expected him to overthrow the Constitution and set-up a sort of crypto-Communist dictatorship. (They call it "progress.") He has disappointed them, and there is no canard too mean for them to print and no sneer too ugly for some of their pages. His parents, his wife, his children, his brothers and sisters, are held to ridicule in a lot of the "liberal" and pro-Communist press. This may come as a surprise to many of my Conservative brothers and sisters. As that part of our national press is influenced from Moscow it is easy to see the temper of many of them. And that temper can easly inflame madmen. The very fact that Mr. Kennedy is apparently now being so closely guarded should alarm all of us very deeply, whether or not we agree with the President on political matters. The mere though of Mr. Kennedy being assassinated should make all of us shudder for the reprecussions in America would be most terrible and disorder would result at the very least.
Then there are the "agents provocateur" who would just love such an "incident." I know. I read some of their literature. It would delight them--and serve their evil purpose--if harm came to Mr. Kennedy. I have already sent a sample to the Department of Justice; it actually suggested that the President be lynched!
Rather than being alarmed, perhaps we should feel relief that our President is being guarded as Mr. Emrey relates, whether we are Democrats or Republicans. I, for one, am relieved.
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Dave
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I posted this years ago but it is always good to read again.
Printed in Kent Courtney's Independent American August, 1963
<quote on>
NEWS FROM THE ANTI-CASTRO CUBAN UNDERGROUND
On all fronts Kennedy continues to seek "accommodation" with the Communist conspiracy; continues to not stand up to or "provoke" the Soviet Union and/or its puppet, Castro.
A recent example, regarding Communist Cuba, is reported in a July 26, 1963, dispatch of the Associated Press which stated: "The United States is protesting to the Castro government against the seizure of the U.S. embassy in Havana but will not retaliate by seizing the Cuban embassy in Washington, the State Department announced Thursday."
Earlier, in a June 20 column by Robert S. Allen and Paul Scott it was reported that "For more than a month, the President and his top foreign policy advisors have been discussing a plan under which the U.S. would resume 'contact' with Castro on both 'an informal and formal basis'."
Just what kind of deceitful sell out is the Kennedy Administration planning?
An inkling of what may be in the works is contained in the
July 20, 1963 issue of CUBAN INFORMATION SERVICE, Carlos Todd, Editor. Terming the following information still in the rumor stage, but likely to be born out by coming events, Todd revealed: The U.S. and Russia have agreed that Castro must go; he will become the fall guy in a complete reorganization of the regime which will purportedly be free of Soviet influence. The plan calls for "uprisings" and "desertions" and "guerrilla fronts", all directed by the Reds in Cuba and their agents in exile.
Castro flees to Moscow and a new government is set up with such men as David Salvador, Manuel Ray and Hubert Matos as top dogs. And although these men are either in "exile" or in "jail", they will respond to the tactical changes in the Communist master plan for the conquest of the hemisphere....
The Russians would remove some--not all--of their troops in Cuba. Soldiers would merely change into civilian attire and become "technicians". Then an election, Soviet style, with the certain winners to be Ray, Salvador and or Matos.
<quote off>
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Tosh,
What did become of Eddie Perez? Did Castillo go in to Cuba to get him out?
Dave
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(Sorry for the early submission. Gonna be away for a few days.)
A League of Their Own:
A Look Inside the Christian Defense League
By D. Boylan*
I enjoyed your paper very much well documented.
However there is one part I think, at least from my point of view, is an old story planted for effect to throw off the trail to MI and Dallas/Miami operations which had been on going concerning gunrunning through Dallas for over three years.
"....A close look at Hall and Howard's associates explains why the various investigations took such an interest in them. Hall testified to receiving money from Mafioso Sam Giancana ($20,000 - 30,000), went on a mission with ex-CIA paramilitarist William "Rip" Robertson, just missed going on the now infamous Bayo-Pawley raid on Cuba,[60] went with Rip Robertson to John Martino's house in Miami, visited General Edwin Walker with Gerry Hemming, admitted to having heard of Lee Oswald in June of 1963 and testified that he was offered $50,000 to kill Kennedy but that he declined the offer...". [61]
Hall was never considered for any CIA UC or covert operation with any of these case officers. He was not connected in any way with CIA operations and too, he was not the friend he thought of Mafia. The Mafia (Chicago and the small Dallas bunch) referred to Hall as 'Liver Lips". They.., mafia and CIA knew he was a paid informant for the FBI. They feed him information they wanted the FBI through Hoover, to have; information they (mafia) wanted to get back to various people. In fact at one point a mob contract was considered on Hall, but Hoover stopped that. Hoover felt he could have "His Boys" take care of Hall and "put him down'. John Martino tried to stay clear of Hall as well as most of the 'non sanctioned 'INTERPEN' boys.
Ref; first hand accounts: (as told to me by John Roselli (1962) Miami; and John Martino (1978) Miami; and retired detective XXXXSMITH. Miami homicide (1999) and Scott Warner Denver FBI SAC Denver Colorado, (1964.) Buna Vista, Colorado; documented; Phoenix Organized Crime; Sgt Ed Salem ret. Referenced Roseli/ Plumlee FBI 62-2116xxx; 1976)
Tosh,
Thanks for the additional info. My take on Hall is that he talked a good game.
Do you know of his relationship with Santo Trafficante and Frank Sturgis?
He reportedly visited Trafficante in Tampa on occasion.
Dave
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Good work, David.
That is a scary network of organizations with a fascinating cast of characters.
Here's a photo you might find interesting. It is George Lincoln Rockwell after being gunned down by John Patler.
James
Thanks James and Greg,
I'm sure you know this, but Rockwell's name and address are in Oswald's notebook. Strange world.
dave
Lucius Conien
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Tim,
Mary Ferrell noted to me years ago that when Madame Nhu visited Dallas in November 1963, it was Robert Surrey's daughter that presented her with flowers.
Surrey was Walker's right hand man.
When I was doing some research on the far right several years ago, I was looking for anything that they had to say about the assassination. I'm relying on my aging memory here and I'm paraphrasing, but there was a strange one liner in the National Chronicle circa 1965 that said if not for Diem's death, JFK would still be alive. The National Chronicle was the former Shasta County Chronicle, a far right newspaper that was edited by Hal Hunt.
Just a few head scratchers.