Richard J. Smith

Shanet,

"Wim had posted the long defense for Files six months ago. I brought it back to the top, a lot of (shakey) people got involved and then John Simkin stated his position."

Unfortunate that you refer to certain people as "shakey" when they don't believe a particular pet theory.

"Wim and I have been emailing backchannell from georgia to Holland about this. John is very hesitant to blame Dallas on organized crime. He is absolutely right. Mafia themes are so 1977, a red herring as Jack White says..."

You agree with Wim on the Files/Mafia involvement, then say John is right and agree that Mafia involvement is a "red herring". Your statements are conflicting. What do you believe?

"Jimmy Files, the Dal-tex(or county records) shooter who I have always thought was Frank Fiorini Sturgis and possibly a good third triangulation shooter from the south knoll (Hunt) avulsing the right rear skull with a left frontal shot."

If you did some hard core research, you wouldn't think that Sturgis or Hunt were shooters. Hunt wasn't a killer, he was a planner. He was the brains behind many CIA operations, and was pretty much solely responsible for the Guatemalan coup in 1954. And he accomplished this without as much as firing a single shot in anger(few other people did for that matter). More than likely IMO, Sturgis drove the hit team and weapons to Dallas from Miami. I tend to agree with the Marita Lorenz version, although the "Oswald" she spoke of was likely an imposter, such as Steve Wilson. Gerry Hemmings confirmed the Miami to Dallas caravan, but says he wasn't in one of the cars.

RJS

"I worked UC operations with KiKi Cammaranda and his pilot, Alveraz, before they were executed."

Tosh,

How much can you reveal about Kiki Camerena? He was allegedly killed by Mexican drug lords, a few of which were convicted and imprisoned for his murder. I looked into this somewhat, and found that Kiki was more than likely killed by the CIA because he discovered their involvement in flying cocaine from Central America into a base in Mexico before they brought it into the States. This was confirmed to me about a year ago by a retired DEA guy, who apparently knew you. He also said Kiki's family wholeheartedly believes Kiki was killed by the CIA. The Kerry Committee convened after it became known the CIA was involved in bringing coke in, and bringing weapons and such back down to Central America. Of course, much of this occurred during the Reagan years, Iran/Contra, etc.

While I'm on this subject, I have a few more questions if I may.

Since you were in that photo in Barry and the Boys, can you identify the others in the photo? The only other guy known for sure is Barry Seal. And when was the photo actually taken? I've heard 1964, and they were Op40, and I've heard 1976 and they were DEA. You were there, so you know for sure.

Next thing is...what do you know about Richard Armitage? We all know he was involved in Iran/Contra with Ollie North. Word is he was very much involved in the heroin network out of Laos in the early 70's, and he was the main man in Thailand. Was he also involved in the coke running during the 80's?

Last but not least, how about Ollie North? According to Hopsicker, he gave the order to kill Seal. I'm sure there's plenty that didn't come up in the Iran/Contra hearings about him. Anything you can tell us?

Thanks Tosh, and glad to see you here. I know you've had problems at Lancer with certain parties, but if you really want to spill your guts and clear up some nasty matters pertaining to fairly recent US history, I'd sure like to listen.

Richard

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Richard: a little background... the following should have been edited a little tighter on the facts.. I'll give you my take on a "New Topic" 'KIKI'... Perhaps this is not the right Forum for that. Perhaps John can advise:

The following site may be of some help, althought I do not agree with some points, overall its good for the historical background. Keep in mind we (our team) was undercover "drug interdiction" (not cocain smugglers) AMSOG Military/CIA United States Federal Government. Most of what I would have to say on that subject is still. "Classified Top Secret; Commitee Sensitive".

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pand...vice_c130s.html

"...Of a certainty, the 35 C-130s, which actually changed hands in the program, wound up doing many other things than fighting fires on behalf of the Forest Service. They have been documented on covert missions in France, Spain, Angola, South Africa, Central America, and even Kuwait during Desert Storm. In June 1991 one of Roy Reagan's C-130s crashed on a CIA mission in Angola killing the nephew of Rep Curt Weldon, R-Pa who later participated in hearings looking into the program.

"All of the contractors had unregulated air fields in remote places that were not usually subject to any kind of Customs inspections. All of the contractors were able to come and go virtually undetected so they could have been doing anything. It was an ideal cover both for drug smuggling and a variety of covert operations," Eitel observed.

( note: Hallburton, Udall Corp., Kerr McGee)

In 1994, as he was investigating his lawsuit, Eitel was researching various aspects of the Forest Service transfer at the Department of Justice. He was allowed to view classified materials relevant to the investigation. "I saw a three ring folder full of State Department Export certificates for C-130 and P 3 aircraft allowing them to leave the U.S. for foreign destinations. I logged 36 of the certificates and noted that at least one was going to Panama for a company called Trans Latin Air and at least one was going to a company named Aero Postale de Mexico. Both aircraft were being sent from T&G.

They were Forest Service aircraft", he added. "And what caught my attention was the fact that the certificates were signed by an attorney named John Ford. Ford was known to me as a CIA Australian attorney involved in the C-130s transferred to Bogota in the 70s and 80s and he was also connected to C-130s moved through Central America which came to the attention of U.S. Ambassador to Costa Rica, Louis Tambs during the Contra war. At the time State had protested the transfer because of possible drug connections."

In a 1993 segment of her news program Eye to Eye, Connie Chung covered the Sabow death in detail and showed evidence of the murder by introducing statements from Sabow's brother, a medical doctor, that Sabow had been unconscious and aspirating blood for minutes before a shotgun was rammed so far down his throat that it sheared off the uvula. In that same segment, veteran Air America and CIA pilot Tosh Plumlee stated that he flew loads of cocaine as large as 2,000 kilos onto El Toro in the years and months prior to Sabow's death - for the CIA. Plumlee stated clearly that he was flying C-130s operated by the Forest Service and their contractors. In later conversations with this writer Plumlee admitted that he routinely flew loads as large as 2,500 kilos onto military installations in California and Arizona for the CIA.

A Tragic Footnote

In August 1994 14 firefighters burned to death in an out of control forest fire in Colorado. The Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration subsequently cited the Forest Service for "inadequate use of aviation resources." Where were all the tankers? According to Eitel they were all out of the country doing anything but fighting fires.

Thanks Tosh, good stuff. I hope John can recommend a place for discussion on Kiki and other related things.

One thing that perhaps you can look at in your post:

" Keep in mind we (our team) was undercover "drug interdiction" (not cocain smugglers)"

Then later in the post:

"In that same segment, veteran Air America and CIA pilot Tosh Plumlee stated that he flew loads of cocaine as large as 2,000 kilos onto El Toro..."

Wasn't the drug interdiction operation just a cover for smuggling cocaine back into the States? You said your team weren't cocaine smugglers, then you told Eye to Eye that you flew over 2000 keys of coke into El Toro. Can you resolve this?

RJS

"I agree with you about the Cuban exiles and their U.S. associates, but disagree that Roselli would therefore not be involved. "

Tim,

I also have no doubt of Roselli's involvement in the conspiracy, but not as a potential shooter, or as any part of the hit team in Dealey Plaza. I should have been more specific in my original post. Sorry.

RJS

"First of all Richard you didn't spell Joe last name correctly."

Joseph Bonnano, AKA Joe Bananas, New York crime boss and head of one of the infamous "5 families", born 1905, died 2002.

"Look it up."

I didn't have to, but I did anyway.

http://www.ganglandnews.com/column280.htm

http://www.carpenoctem.tv/mafia/bonj.html

http://gangstersinc.tripod.com/JoeBon.html

http://www.fact-index.com/j/jo/joseph_bonanno.html

"Secondly, yes, he did marry his daughter it was his second marrage."

BS. Since Wim is an expert on James Files, perhaps he'd like to comment.

"And just maybe, you think you know everything but NO Richard you don't."

I know that James Files didn't marry Joe Bonnano's daughter.

RJS

"I worked UC operations with KiKi Cammaranda and his pilot, Alveraz, before they were executed."

Tosh,

How much can you reveal about Kiki Camerena? He was allegedly killed by Mexican drug lords, a few of which were convicted and imprisoned for his murder. I looked into this somewhat, and found that Kiki was more than likely killed by the CIA because he discovered their involvement in flying cocaine from Central America into a base in Mexico before they brought it into the States. This was confirmed to me about a year ago by a retired DEA guy, who apparently knew you. He also said Kiki's family wholeheartedly believes Kiki was killed by the CIA. The Kerry Committee convened after it became known the CIA was involved in bringing coke in, and bringing weapons and such back down to Central America. Of course, much of this occurred during the Reagan years, Iran/Contra, etc.

While I'm on this subject, I have a few more questions if I may.

Since you were in that photo in Barry and the Boys, can you identify the others in the photo? The only other guy known for sure is Barry Seal. And when was the photo actually taken? I've heard 1964, and they were Op40, and I've heard 1976 and they were DEA. You were there, so you know for sure.

Next thing is...what do you know about Richard Armitage? We all know he was involved in Iran/Contra with Ollie North. Word is he was very much involved in the heroin network out of Laos in the early 70's, and he was the main man in Thailand. Was he also involved in the coke running during the 80's?

Last but not least, how about Ollie North? According to Hopsicker, he gave the order to kill Seal. I'm sure there's plenty that didn't come up in the Iran/Contra hearings about him. Anything you can tell us?

Thanks Tosh, and glad to see you here. I know you've had problems at Lancer with certain parties, but if you really want to spill your guts and clear up some nasty matters pertaining to fairly recent US history, I'd sure like to listen.

Richard

"Richard, I have no illusions about ever turning you over. Quite frankly, you're beginning to sound like Bob Vernon. Shouting repeatedly that it's bogus, doesn't make it so. Let's debate the evidence..."

Wim,

As you recall, we debated the evidence for months at Lancer. I would say I made my case at that time. You may also recall that when you couldn't or wouldn't debate my findings, you turned to personal attacks. I would think those debates are still in the archives at Lancer if anyone is interested.

I spent the better part of 6 months researching nothing else. I am totally convinced as a result of that research that James Files is a fraud, and really don't care to devote any more time to it. We do agree on SOME things in the JFK case Wim, but this certainly isn't one of them. It is my opinion, that Cuban exiles and their US associates were the boots on the ground (and one in the sixth floor window of the TSBD, Herminio Diaz) in Dealey Plaza that day, not Nicoletti, Files, or Roselli.

Beginning to sound like Bob Vernon? That's a cheap shot even for you Wim. Once again I refer you to the archives at Lancer.

RJS

The above posting has been censored. Nancy, you are new to this forum but abusive attacks like this will not be tolerated. Argue about this issue logically. Do not write about the personality of the person who has posted.

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Thank you John. As I told you previously, I have no intention of attacking Ms Eldreth on this forum. All one needs to do is visit the Lancer forum to view her posts over the last year, and they can judge for themselves. I will, however, debate the information that Ms Eldreth posts if I know for a fact it is in error (which in 99.9% of the time, it is).

Ms Eldreth indicated that James Files told her on more than one occasion that he was married to Joe Bonnano's daughter. If he did indeed tell her that, he is a xxxx. If Ms Eldreth got it wrong, she has once again misinterpreted, misunderstood, and misstated. Anyone who values truth and fact should question someone who posts hearsay, misstatements, and innuendo and represents it as truth. All I ask is for people to check things out for themselves. I have, and Ms Eldreth doesn't like the results.

RJS

"For instance there is the fact that the government erased the man's birth records... he doesn't even 'exist'"

This is not proven to be "fact"

"What do our other researchers say about this? (remembering that many of them are deeply committed to other scenarios)"

Complete and total hogwash. Several researchers, including myself, spent about 6 months on it at JFKLancer. I'm sure you can find the debates in the archives at the Lancer forum.

"This appears to be a major breakthrough in the search for Kennedy's killers."

IMO, the Files story was debunked long ago. This is no breakthrough, it is bogus. If you research it yourself, you'll find that out.

RJS

"One marriage was to the daughter of Joe Banana. Again not fully sure because of how he wrote that to me but that is what I think he had stated to me several times. "

Are you actually saying that James Files told you he was married to Joe Bonnano's daughter?

RJS

I would like to organize an online conference on the JFK assassination during the week 21st November – 27th November. If I can persuade enough people to contribute a paper, I would like to start a couple every day during this week. Of course, there would be not cut-off date for contributions to these debates. Please post titles of the topics you would like to start. To get the ball rolling I am willing to produce an article/paper on “Florence Smith: The Forgotten Witness”.

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The JFK Rear Head Wound: The Witnesses

I won't name any names here but I did get an email once that stated me once "I can't post that up on the forum."  and then gave me a better answer in private than what was up on the forum by even himself.  NOW that was a real kick in the pants for me why in the world can't a person answer the darn questions on the forum that would make far more sense.  YEAH.  Something has been going on Lancer that is wrong for sometime. 

I find a lot of things strange over there.  Can't get answers get put down if you attempt to say them.  Yet, everyone thinks it is an OK forum. 

It isn't just Gary Mack.  He has sent somethings to me so I know where you are coming from.  I thought it too that he was a bit rude but not bad.  He is mild compared to some of it on the blunt forum.

God help you if you know something and they don't approve of it is what it comes down too.

You believe in pay offs to keep the truth from coming out? 

Well, maybe. 

I have heard from two separate souces something to this effect.  Also, found out that the souces don't relate to each other.

Yes, there is something very wrong.

Just hope to gear it around and corner it is all that anyone can do.

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All one needs to do is visit Lancer and read your posts. You misrepresent, missstate, misunderstand, and misinterpret, Mis-Eldreth. If Gary was rude to you, it's for the same reason that 99% of the posters at Lancer either ignore you or get in your face. On this forum at least, I intend to ignore you from now on.

I'm committed to working calmly on substantive issues and downplaying personalities and potential disinformation. The problem is the FACTS are all in contention, and to say someone only follows facts, means, to me, that their going to give you a lame government-fed line.

Shanet

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Shanet,

I beg to differ, but ALL the facts are not in contention, and Gary Mack does not give anyone a lame government fed line. There are absolute, undeniable facts in this case that even CT's and LN's agree on. How many times have people posted on this or any other JFK forum, and have twisted the "facts" to create their own scenario of conspiracy? Happens all the time. Gary Mack has taken many of these "facts" and untwisted them. For doing so, he is called everything from a disinfo specialist to a CIA plant. I'll give you just a few examples of "facts" people still state, yet are proven to be otherwise:

- Lee Oswald had a driver's license

- TWO 2 spent 6.5 mm casings were found in the "sniper's nest"

- Spent automatic pistol casings were found at the Tippit shooting scene

- Lee Oswald couldn't have walked from the 6th floor to the 2nd floor breakroom in 90 seconds(this refers to timing only)

When someone disputes these twisted facts, they are labeled as supporting government fed disinformation. It is utter nonsense. Isn't it time the absolute facts become undisputed, and time we move on?

RJS

Gary Mack helped you? Gary Mack sent me a hysterical e-mail at home with "That bridge was damned crowded and the Secret Service let it happen" as the SUBJECT line.....and he claimed everybody on the bridge was railroad workers and the 1963 secret service couldn't do anything about it... I don't appreciate that....I deleted it as Spam. If Gary Mack wants to talk to me do it over the Forum, not on my private email...

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Gary Mack is one of the most valuable information resources around. You may not agree with something he says, but I can't imagine not wanting to hear from him. Send it to me, Gary!

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Shanet: How about posting it?  Gary seems to feel that it would be inappropriate for him to post to a forum, and I believe that is understandable given his position at the museum.  He's a nice, helpful guy.  Give him a call at the museum sometime on his dime (1-800) and you'll see.  People have become frustrated with him over the years.  He was an early and eager proponent of the Badgeman photogrammerty, and now he sometimes comes off like a Lone Nutter.  Again, I attribute that to his position, which I believe requires the goodwill of the Dallas civic leaders.

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I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on Gary Mack. I have had a lot of emails from Gray Mack. I have never found them useful. They all follow a particular style: (i) they are always impolite and very angry; (ii) they always criticise any suggestion that the American intelligence services are in any way responsible for the assassination; (iii) the evidence quoted is usually from discredited sources and often appear to have been taken from John McAdams website.

For example, he recently criticised a posting I made about Dorothy Kilgallen. He argued that Mark Lane had already explained what happened to Kilgallen notes on the article she was writing on the JFK assassination. They were not stolen but were destroyed by her husband Richard Kollmar. This is of course a misreading of pages 426/427 of Lee Israel’s book, Kilgallen. What Kollmar actually told Lane was that he was thinking of destroying these notes.

As Israel points out, there is no evidence that carried out such a threat. However, as Israel points out: “Richard’s post mortems were so riddled with lies, it is impossible to know whether he ever really possessed the material or what he decided to do with it.”

As with all the other emails he has sent me, I always tell Gary to post his views on the forum and we can debate these issues. This he always refuses to do (even though he is a member). His friends tell me that the reason for this is that he is not allowed to express opinions on public forums that might be disliked by his employers. It would therefore seem that he is not an independent researcher and that the motivation behind his emails have to be questioned.

Tim suggests that Shanet should publish Gary’s emails on the forum. In future I will do that, but I suspect that means that I will not receive anymore emails from Gary.

My own view is that Gary Mack is in the tradition of Jack Anderson, Richard Billings and G. Robert Blakey. This is the fall back position developed in the late 1960s when it became clear that it was no longer possible to maintain the view that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin. The view being pushed by the CIA was that the whole thing was a Mafia operation. In doing so, they hoped to move the focus away from the real people behind the assassination.

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Gary Mack and I have emailed each other on many occasions, and I hope to get to Dallas someday to meet him in person. He has been most helpful to me, and IMO is is the only person who is aware of and stands by the absolute facts in the JFK case. He doesn't guess, he doesn't suppose, and he rarely voices his own opinion. If you are wrong about the established facts, he will tell you so. I know for a fact that Gary believes in a conspiracy, and thinks the key evidence is the DPD dictabelt recording and the acoustic tests. It is very unfair to lump him in with the likes of Blakey and Anderson.

Richard