Kennedy family "complicity" !

[Charles Black]

There are two areas regarding the 11/22/63 assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy,

that in my opinion, have been the most significant deterrents to the understanding of what truly occurred. One is the inability to PROVE that the Zapruder film was altered.

It is the second area that has totally perplexed me. I will say this "boldly" with no reservation or apologies. I feel that the actions and behavior of the "entire" Kennedy family (including Bobby), indicate complicency in aiding the "Cover Up".

I have heard numerous, dozens, of explanations. These however are not valid explanations; merely quite weak "excuses". I am in effect accusing the Kennedy family of assisting in the "cover up" of what is arguably the most important event in U.S. history, and has had no doubt the most severe lingering effect on the future of the United States. Am I expected to be naive enough to believe that the Kennedy family was, and did remain, ignorant to the causes of what occurred and exactly who were the Prime Conspirators?

I have not heard this mentioned before, but do any of you believe that Arstotle Onassis did not have the means and desire to uncover the important aspects of this event. Do you all recognize, the strength of the intelligence arm of his "Kingdom"?

Or the intelligence capability of Robert Maheu (sp?) and the Hughes Empire? As a matter of fact, this has not at all been nearly fully explored.

I am very sorry, but Kennedy family interests in concealing JFK's health, possible meanderings, collusion with the Mafia, or participation in the assassintions of foreign officials, can not be accepted as justification for covering a U.S. Coup d' Etat; except only by the most dull and naive!

John F. Kennedy is not a closed case. This matter involves the utmost in United States National Security and as such, the Kennedy family could not, if so pressed, prevent the disinterrment of his body. Why have we in the U.S. allowed one family, which by the way does not have a "lilly white" history, to dictate the actions of our country.

If it were deemed in the interest of "NATIONAL SECURITY", neither you nor I could prevent the disinterrment of our personal families back thru generations. Do I live in a free state? Do I have the same righs as all others, as my constitution guarantees me?

If I in fact do not....why should I truly give a damned about this affair and merely accept what I "apparently am" ? I feel as if I am a caged, drugged and controlled resident of the largest mental facility in the universe !

Charles Black

[Kathleen Collins]

There are two areas regarding the 11/22/63 assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy,

that in my opinion, have been the most significant deterrents to the understanding of what truly occurred. One is the inability to PROVE that the Zapruder film was altered.

It is the second area that has totally perplexed me. I will say this "boldly" with no reservation or apologies. I feel that the actions and behavior of the "entire" Kennedy family (including Bobby), indicate complicency in aiding the "Cover Up".

I have heard numerous, dozens, of explanations. These however are not valid explanations; merely quite weak "excuses". I am in effect accusing the Kennedy family of assisting in the "cover up" of what is arguably the most important event in U.S. history, and has had no doubt the most severe lingering effect on the future of the United States. Am I expected to be naive enough to believe that the Kennedy family was, and did remain, ignorant to the causes of what occurred and exactly who were the Prime Conspirators?

I have not heard this mentioned before, but do any of you believe that Arstotle Onassis did not have the means and desire to uncover the important aspects of this event. Do you all recognize, the strength of the intelligence arm of his "Kingdom"?

Or the intelligence capability of Robert Maheu (sp?) and the Hughes Empire? As a matter of fact, this has not at all been nearly fully explored.

I am very sorry, but Kennedy family interests in concealing JFK's health, possible meanderings, collusion with the Mafia, or participation in the assassintions of foreign officials, can not be accepted as justification for covering a U.S. Coup d' Etat; except only by the most dull and naive!

John F. Kennedy is not a closed case. This matter involves the utmost in United States National Security and as such, the Kennedy family could not, if so pressed, prevent the disinterrment of his body. Why have we in the U.S. allowed one family, which by the way does not have a "lilly white" history, to dictate the actions of our country.

If it were deemed in the interest of "NATIONAL SECURITY", neither you nor I could prevent the disinterrment of our personal families back thru generations. Do I live in a free state? Do I have the same righs as all others, as my constitution guarantees me?

If I in fact do not....why should I truly give a damned about this affair and merely accept what I "apparently am" ? I feel as if I am a caged, drugged and controlled resident of the largest mental facility in the universe !

Charles Black

There are things I agree with you on. But the Kennedys are not all powerful. When John Kennedy Jr's plane took a nose dive into the water around Martha's Vineyard, Senator Ted Kennedy could not get the Coast Guard, or whoever patrols that water, to come out that night and look for the plane. They refused. Outrageous! You can find this on tomflocco.com. And if it seems that this country bows down to the Kennedys, it's because deep down we all know members of that family were killed for political reasons.

I don't see why we should exhume President Kennedy. Yes, it was a f----d up autopsy. But I don't see what more they would find. The autopsy should have been performed in horrific Dallas.

Regarding Aristotle Onassis, there are people who believe that he funded the assassination and then took the bride. I don't think he was behind it, though, and if he started to interfere, someone might have knocked off Jackie's kids. That's the main reason she left this country.

As for Howard Hughes. Now why would he be interested in killing Kennedy? The man was racist. He despised dark-skinned people. (Citizen Hughes) I never heard or read this before but Kennedy was pushing Civil Rights legislation -- maybe that could be a motive.

As for the Zapruder Film, researchers have convinced me that it was a blatant creation/alteration. I've said this before: the Govt wants us to believe what they tell us. But the last head shot obviously came from the front right. People are believing what the govt (Warren Commission Report) tells them, not what they see with their own eyes!

Kathy

[Charles Drago]

What were the Kennedys supposed to do? Call the cops?

The cops did it!

Charles

[Charles Black]

Hello Kathy

I disagree with you very strongly on most of your points. You "cannot" believe that the Kennedy family has been "pressed", as should any U.S. citizen be pressed who is believed to have "any" knowledge of the assassination? WHY ?

It is generally presumed that we have "No Royalty" within this country, and our children are being taught, as was I, that "we all" are subject to the exact same rules, laws and conduct. It is my sincere belief, that this is one of the foremost principles upon which this country stands. A name such as Kennedy, Rockefeller or Vanderbilt, in no way elevates one above the basic rights of all.

I most strongly reject the "lack of value" which you suggest would result from a disinterrment. It would show exactly the work of the morticians in the "patching of the skull, plus possibly very much more!

How can anyone with any degree of reason, say that the solution of this murder and Coup d'Etat, is not a matter of "Foremost National Security". By comparison to this proposed action, information "known as TRIVIA", is still being witheld under the National Security guise !

I mean this as no disrespect to the Kennedy's, But I absolutely feel no higher regard for the wishes and welfare of the Kennedy family than I do for the poorest Black and Latino families on our welfare roles....nor should anyone.

The Kennedy family has admittedly both prospered and suffered much. Their suffering has been eclipsed however, by thousands of lesser known and quite heroic families whose sons, brothers and fathers, have heroically given their all for the "assumed" equality of "all" of us for whom they were sacrificed. I know of NONE of the families of these "Heroes" whose families have been extended special privilege and courteousy. And I have been honored to personally have known many of them.

OR.....Perhaps we do have "Royal Families" !

Charles Black

P.S. Hoping not to create a seizure in any of the readers, but how surprising would it be if the Kennedy corpse no longer rests beneath the "eternal light", BUT at "Kennedy Family Request", has been reinterred at a secret and private location.

This wouldn't necessarily be the most Bizarre occurrence in this case !

[Charles Drago]

I'm not sure why I'm posting this -- I've held off in the past -- but the downward-spiraling absurdity of these "arguments" begs me to respond.

In kind?

You be the judge.

For many reasons -- some of which should be apparent -- I cannot quote the source of this idea? insight? fantasy? And I surely cannot lend even a scintilla of credence to the story. I must admit, thought, that it appeals to my novelistic sensibilities.

Suppose ... just suppose ... the Kennedy cenotaph in Dallas is not that at all, but rather ... need I type it ... the Kennedy tomb.

Now for some truth (a refreshing change):

At a JFK Lancer conference in Dallas within the past ten years, conference attendees gathered at the cenotaph for a Sunday morning remembrance. At the end of his moving remarks, Professor Evica suggested that we all approach the slab, place our right palms upon it, and pay our respects to John.

I have not yet lived through a more moving experience.

Charles

[Duke Lane]

... Suppose ... just suppose ... the Kennedy cenotaph in Dallas is not that at all, but rather ... need I type it ... the Kennedy tomb.

...

Except that by calling it that - a cenotaph - one explicitly denies the possibility:

cen·o·taph [

sen

-

uh

-taf, -tahf] –noun : a sepulchral monument erected in memory of a deceased person

whose body is buried elsewhere

.

Sorry, couldn't help it!

[Kathleen Collins]

I'm not sure why I'm posting this -- I've held off in the past -- but the downward-spiraling absurdity of these "arguments" begs me to respond.

In kind?

You be the judge.

For many reasons -- some of which should be apparent -- I cannot quote the source of this idea? insight? fantasy? And I surely cannot lend even a scintilla of credence to the story. I must admit, thought, that it appeals to my novelistic sensibilities.

Suppose ... just suppose ... the Kennedy cenotaph in Dallas is not that at all, but rather ... need I type it ... the Kennedy tomb.

Now for some truth (a refreshing change):

At a JFK Lancer conference in Dallas within the past ten years, conference attendees gathered at the cenotaph for a Sunday morning remembrance. At the end of his moving remarks, Professor Evica suggested that we all approach the slab, place our right palms upon it, and pay our respects to John.

I have not yet lived through a more moving experience.

Charles

That's an interesting theory. I'm sure you know about his disinterment in 1967, where they moved him to a more prominent gravesite in the cemetery. Photos exist of this, but I don't know why the photos were taken. Because it was done with some secrecy in the middle of the night and a lot of military guards were protecting the cemetery. Also, there was some kind of container that was next to the grave after the coffin was lifted out, I believe. The thinking is this might be the missing brain. I don't believe he's buried in Dealey Plaza. Would Jackie have wanted that? Charles, where exactly do they have this memorial "slab" there?

Kathy

[Charles Drago]

Kathy,

The Kennedy Memorial in Dallas was designed by Philip Johnson and erected in the West End of the city in 1979.

It is technically and ostensibly a cenotaph -- a memorial dedicated to a deceased person whose remains are elsewhere.

For the record, I am not seriously suggesting that JFK's remains were dumped into the concrete there. By the same token, I would not be surprised if someday we were to learn that the Arlington grave is either empty, or its contents have been, well, tampered with.

This speculation is most decidedly NOT for general consumption, insofar as it would provide endless fodder to those who would decry all conspiracy realists as wingnuts.

Hope this helps.

Charles

[Charles Black]

Hello Kathy

I had not intended to get into this on the forum, however it has played on my mind for many years.

I felt at the time, and possibly even moreso now, that there was no reason for this to have been undertaken covertly and at night. A portion of Arlington could have been cordoned off, and "NO FLY OVER" ordered. In addition, temporary privacy screens could have surrounded the area. I feel the photos taken of Robert and the activity were planned as another "scam", and the stainless steel container for the same purpose.

I suggest this was undertaken because it was assumed perhaps at some point, that a non caring "only partially human", as myself, might suggest the "sacrilege" which I have suggested.

The pictures taken during this covert operation smell of fakery ! Why would the Kennedy's have wanted anyone to see these pictures if not for a very definite purpose ? There are not a great many pictures released by this family.

And to one as "paranoid" as I, twenty dozenteen witness statements, of this "true" occurrance, would not sway me one millimeter ! Even if one were written by the Pope !

This is how rotten I field the state of affairs is in my homeland !

And to you "true researchers"...NO, I can't prove anything !

Charles Black

[John Dolva]

hmmm...lemme see...um...three baby strollers casually triangulated around the grave site. In each stroller, pushed by a family paying their respects, an electronic/sonar setup with a probe depressed into the grass and the data derived saved on a laptop (wi fi) and used to offsite recreate in 3D the tomb and its contents? Cmon, there must be a few geeks out there who could cobble together a citizens investigation in some way? Nah. Silly and unseemly...Sorry, forget it. Just babbling...

[J. Raymond Carroll]

This speculation is most decidedly NOT for general consumption, insofar as it would provide endless fodder to those who would decry all conspiracy realists as wingnuts.

I am under the impression that this forum IS IN FACT for "general consumption" on the world-wide web.

Hope this helps.

Charles

Maybe it will help those who would decry all conspiracy realists as wingnuts.

[Charles Drago]

This speculation is most decidedly NOT for general consumption, insofar as it would provide endless fodder to those who would decry all conspiracy realists as wingnuts.

I am under the impression that this forum IS IN FACT for "general consumption" on the world-wide web.

Hope this helps.

Charles

Maybe it will help those who would decry all conspiracy realists as wingnuts.

Yawn.

[Michael Hogan]

"In my humble opinion, as indicated by some events and conversations in this book, the Kennedy family did not want to pursue the matter of finding the real, unquestionable, assassin, nor a conspiracy. And they could have done it with their own, immense, private resources. If somebody would kill my son or my brother, I certainly would want to be sure who did it. But possibly the personality of Lee Harvey Oswald suited perfectly the political purposes of the Kennedy family.

Lee was a "lunatic" and a "Marxist" who killed John F. Kennedy without any reason and made a martyr of him. And so, the matter was closed for ever. Why look for more responsible people?"

From: I am a Patsy! I am a Patsy!

by George de Mohrenschildt

Edited June 7, 2007 by Michael Hogan

[J. Raymond Carroll]

"In my humble opinion the Kennedy family did not want to pursue the matter of finding the real, unquestionable, assassin, nor a conspiracy. by George de Mohrenschildt

The poor man had never heard of BROTHERS, by David Talbot.

[Don Jeffries]

While I strongly disagree with the efforts of many over the years to, in effect, "blame" JFK for his own assassination (a great expose on this was by Jim DiEugenio, in his wonderful "Posthumous Assassination of JFK" in Probe magazine), I do find plenty to criticize in the way the Kennedy family has approached this subject.

From the very start, Jackie set the tone, not only for the rest of the Kennedy family, but for the entire country. A powerful "don't ask, don't tell" aura surrounded her and her children for the rest of her life, in regards to the subject of the assassination. What other widow, in human history, could instill such fear in everyone about mentioning her husband's death, even thirty years afterwards? Caroline Kennedy's attitude is even more incomprehensible; even now, as a woman almost 50 years of age, she will not address the subject of her father's death 44 years ago, and no reporter has the courage to ask her, anyway. Compare the attitudes of Jackie and Caroline (John, Jr. was a bit more open on the subject, especially in the few years prior to his own untimely death) to those of Corretta Scott King and her son Dexter. Mrs. King, as an elderly woman, traveled a great distance in order to testify for James Earl Ray in his quest to get a real trial. Dexter met with Ray numerous times, publicly spoke out in support of his receiving a new trial, and generally worked hard in the pursuit of justice. The Kings appeared to be interested in knowing the circumstances behind their loved one's murder. The Kennedys, unfortunately, have never appeared to have the slightest interest in why JFK (or RFK) were murdered.

Having said all this, I don't share the view that the reason the Kennedys haven't spoken out is due to a fear of their own family skeletons falling out of the closet. As DiEugenio points out in his excellent Probe article, the allegations against JFK of womanizing, mafia connections, etc. really have little substance behind them. I still believe that the Kennedy clan is one of the most honest, upright families in that rarified class of the super wealthy, that the world has ever seen. So, because I believe that, I have to assume that they have a pretty good reason for the strange, detached attitude they have collectively maintained about the assassinations. I can't figure out what that vaild reason could be, since so many of them have died unnatural deaths through the years, in spite of the wall of silence they've constructed about the subject, presumably out of fear that more of them might be killed by the same forces that killed JFK and RFK.

I used to fantasize about locking Teddy, Caroline and John, Jr. in a room and forcing them to confront the clear and obvious evidence of conspiracy. In my naive mind, I assumed that all they needed was to be enlightened about the subject. I'd sure love to know what they really talk about behind closed doors at huge family gatherings. Does the subject come up? Who knows?