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Close-up of Duncan MacRae's Knoll shooter


Guest Eugene B. Connolly
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(In reading further the McAdams-site post on Hoffman, it's clear that he had some issues right from the git-go with what he could see and couldn't see, not far at all from my own uninformed opinions about the trees, etc.)
Call it what you will; I like the term "bullxxxx factor." Hoffman's story reeks with it, Arnold's doesn't.

Duke, you're completely right!

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Dallas, Texas

June 28, 1967

ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT

JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY

DALLAS, TEXAS, November 22, 1963

On June 26, 1967, Mr. Jim Dowdy, 725 McLenore, Texas, advised a deaf mute, Virgil E. Hoffman, who is employed at Texas Instruments, had indicated he wanted to furnish information to Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation regarding the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy. It was pointed out to Mr. Dowdy that Hoffman should put in writing in detail everything he saw the day of the assassination.

On June 28, 1967, Virgil E. Hoffman appeared at the Dallas Office of the FBI and advised he resided at 424 Grand Prairie Road, Grand Prairie, Texas, and was employed at Texas Instruments, Dallas. He said he parked his automobile near the railroad tracks on Stemmons Freeway and Elm Street, about 12:00 noon on November 22, 1963.

Hoffman said he was standing a few feet south of the railroad on Stemmons Freeway when the motorcade passed him taking President Kennedy to Parkland Hospital. Hoffman said he observed two white males, clutching something dark to their chests with both hands, running from the rear of the Texas School Book Depository building. The men were running north on the railroad, then turned east, and Hoffman lost sight of both of the men.

-------------------

This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; is and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency.

[p.2]

ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT

JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY

Approximately two hours after the above interview with Hoffman, he retuned to the Dallas Office of the FBI and advised he had just returned from the spot on Stemmons Freeway where he had parked his automobile and had decided he could not have seen the men running because of a fence west of the Texas School Book Depository building. He said it was possible that he saw these two men on the fence or something else.

Hoffman said the only description he could furnish of the men was that one of them wore a white shirt. He stated he had discussed this matter with his father at the time of the assassination, and his father suggested that he not talk to anyone about this, but after thinking about what he saw, Hoffman stated he decided to tell the FBI.

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Dallas, Texas

July 6, 1967

ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT

JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY

DALLAS, TEXAS, November 22, 1963

Virgil E. Hoffman was not interviewed prior to June 28, 1967.

On July 6, 1967, Roy S. Truly, Manager, Texas School Book Depository, advised there is a fence approximately 6 feet tall running from the parking lot west of the Texas School Book Depository for about 150 feet to the north of the Texas School Book Depository. This fence was constructed approximately two years prior to the assassination and has not been moved to date.

On July 5, 1967, Mr. E. Hoffman, father of Virgil E. Hoffman, and Fred Hoffman, brother of Virgil Hoffman, were interviewed at 428 West Main Street, Grand Prairie, Texas. Both advised that Virgil Hoffman has been a deaf mute his entire life and has in the past distorted facts of events observed by him. Both the father and brother stated that Virgil Hoffman loved President Kennedy and had mentioned to them just after the assassination that he (Virgil Hoffman) was standing on the freeway near the Texas School Book Depository at the time of the assassination. Virgil Hoffman told them he saw numerous men running after the President was shot. The father of Virgil Hoffman stated that he did not believe that his son had seen anything of value and doubted he had observed any men running from the Texas School Book Depository and for this reason had not mentioned it to the FBI.

NOTE:

Virgil E. Hoffman, a deaf mute employed by Texas Instruments, Dallas, Texas, advised Agents of our Dallas Office that immediately following the assassination, he observed two white males running from the rear of the Texas School Book Depository building. Males were allegedly clutching something dark. Two hours after furnishing this information, Hoffman returned to our Dallas Office and advised he had reobserved the area where he allegedly saw the two men and decided he could not have seen the men running because of an intervening fence.

Bureau files contain no identifiable information with Virgil E. Hoffman and Dallas is being instructed to fully resolve this matter. Upon completion of the investigation the results will be furnished to the Criminal Division of the Department and to Secret Service.

RE: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT

JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY

On March 25, 1977, Richard H. Freeman, Texas Instruments, Semi-Conductor Building, Richardson, Texas, telephone number 238-4965, home address 2573 Sheli, Frisco, Texas, telephone 377-9456, telephonically advised Special Agent [REDACTED] that he knew sign language and has communicated with Virgil E. Hoffman, a deaf mute who is employed at his building at Texas Instruments. Mr. Hoffman communicated with him by the use of sign language and Hoffman was concerned that the FBI perhaps did not fully understand what he was trying to communicate. Hoffman communicated the following information to Mr. Freeman:

Hoffman was watching the motorcade of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963, at Dallas, Texas. Hoffman was standing on Stemmons Freeway watching the presidential motorcade, looking in an easterly direction when the motorcade sped away and headed north on Stemmons Freeway. Hoffman communicated that this must have been right after President Kennedy was shot. Hoffman saw two men, one with a rifle and one with a handgun, behind a wooden fence, approximately six feet in height, at this moment. This fence is located on the same side of Elm Street as the Texas School Book Depository building but closer to Stemmons Freeway. Since he is deaf, he naturally could not hear any shots but thought he saw a puff of smoke in the vicinity of where the two men were standing. As soon as he saw the motorcade speed away and saw the puff of smoke in the vicinity of the two men, the man with the rifle looked like he was breaking the rifle down by removing the barrel from the stock and placing it in some dark type of suitcase that the other man was holding. The two men then ran north on the railroad tracks by actually running on the tracks. Hoffman was standing approximately 75 yards from this fence. This fence was at approximately the same height or level as the ground floor of the Texas School Book Depository building.

RE: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT

JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY

Both men were white males, both dressed in some type of white suits, and both wore ties. He was too far away to furnish a more detailed description. There were no other people in his area of observation, nor in the area where the two men were standing behind the fence.

On March 28, 1977, Richard H. Freeman, Texas Instruments, Richardson, Texas, was telephonically contacted by Special Agent [REDACTED] and was requested to contact Mr. Hoffman in an effort to communicate with him and to advise him if he could come to the Dallas FBI Office in order to make a personal visit to the area of Stemmons Freeway from where he observed the presidential motorcade on November 22, 1963.

On March 28, 1977, Virgil E. Hoffman accompanied Special Agent [REDACTED] to Stemmons Freeway, also known as Interstate Highway 35 North, Dallas, Texas.

Hoffman communicated that he was driving a 1962 Ford Falcon on November 22, 1963. He parked his car on the west shoulder of Stemmons Freeway at the northbound lane near the Texas and Pacific Railroad overpass that crosses Stemmons Freeway. He could not see the presidential motorcade as it was proceeding west on Elm Street toward the Triple Underpass. He saw the motorcade speed up as it emerged on Stemmons Freeway heading north. His line of vision was due east looking from Stemmons Freeway toward the Texas School Book Depository building. The two men he saw were behind the wooden fence above the grassy knoll north of Elm Street and just before the Triple Underpass. He indicated he saw smoke in that vicinity and saw the man with the rifle disassembling the rifle near some type of railroad track control box located close to the railroad tracks. Both men ran north on the railroad tracks.

He tried to get the attention of a Dallas policeman who was standing on the railroad overpass that crosses Stemmons Freeway, but since he could not yell, he could not communicate with the policeman. He drove his car north on Stemmons Freeway after the motorcade passed him in an effort to find the two men, but he lost sight of them.

Special Agent [REDACTED] took color photographs from the area of Stemmons Freeway where Mr. Hoffman was watching the presidential motorcade on November 22, 1963. Photographs were also taken of the area north of the grassy knoll where the wooden fence is located, and the area adjacent to it, which is now primarily used as a parking lot. The distance from where Mr. Hoffman was viewing the motorcade on Stemmons Freeway to the area behind the wooden fence is estimated at approximately 280 (105) yards, with the elevation being approximately the same height as the first floor of the Texas School Book Depository building.

Photographs were taken with a Bessler Topcon camera, using Kodak Vericolor II, Type S film, with a distance setting of infinitive, f Stop 14, and film speed 1/125 of a second.

Udo H. Specht

Mercantile Continental Bldg.

1810 Commerce Street, Room 200

Dallas, Texas 75201

214-741-1851

Edited by Miles Scull
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The distance down the fence that Duncan is saying he sees a human head and torso is roughly the same size as the individuals seen on the steps and they are much closer to Moorman's camera. This can be verified by cropping out Duncan's alleged figure and moving it to Hudson's location.

Your analysis is is garbage Bill, you really surprise me. Lets do a reverse take on your analysis. Take Kennedy's head, crop it and place it behind the fence. What do we get using your analysis system? Garbage. I've also cropped my shooter as you requested, the result once again using your analysis system? More garbage. The head of the shooter is clearly ( using your analysis)..MUCH smaller than the Hudson area heads, i'd estimate around a third of the size, proving I am correct. Game Set & Match

Duncan - what you say simply is not true. You once posted that area with the "OUTLINE" drawn over your subject ... you failed to use that outline in your example. Please go back and use your outline version and we will see what is and is not garbage.

Thanks!

BTW, here is a comparison for sharpness using a section of the Moorman image Groden and Thomspon used Vs. the drum scan you have rested your hat on. There can be no comparison in the sharpness between the two.

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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The distance down the fence that Duncan is saying he sees a human head and torso is roughly the same size as the individuals seen on the steps and they are much closer to Moorman's camera. This can be verified by cropping out Duncan's alleged figure and moving it to Hudson's location.

Your analysis is is garbage Bill, you really surprise me. Lets do a reverse take on your analysis. Take Kennedy's head, crop it and place it behind the fence. What do we get using your analysis system? Garbage. I've also cropped my shooter as you requested, the result once again using your analysis system? More garbage. The head of the shooter is clearly ( using your analysis)..MUCH smaller than the Hudson area heads, i'd estimate around a third of the size, proving I am correct. Game Set & Match

Duncan

Touché!

On a distantly related subject, it seems that certain forum members are questioning Bill's credentials & bona fides as a real or actual person. I found a thread on the forum in which Bill's existence as a real person was being challenged by some senior forum members.

Odd? So, anyway, just for fun I looked up the forum bios for the individuals concerned. Boom! <_< Was I in for a surprise!

Bill does not have a bio! But, isn't a bio a required criterion for forum membership?

Like Ed's ghost sniper & Midget Man is Bill, himself, a figment of his own diseased imagination? <_<

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Duncan - what you say simply is not true. You once posted that area with the "OUTLINE" drawn over your subject ... you failed to use that outline in your example. Please go back and use your outline version and we will see what is and is not garbage.

Thanks!

Bill

Bill....I can assure you that drawing an outline around my figure will not increase the size of the figure.

Duncan

I agree ... it will not increase the size. However, it will show that what you think you see at that section of the fence is as big on film as Hudson's upper torso and head who is much closer to Moorman's camera ... and that is the point about perspective that I made. I look forward to your posting of the outline and I will be happy to take it from there. remember the hat and face you drew over this area - I do. I kept that image, but do not have it on my laptop, but if you cannot produce it ... I will find it eventually and post it for you.

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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On a distantly related subject, it seems that certain forum members are questioning Bill's credentials & bona fides as a real or actual person. I found a thread on the forum in which Bill's existence as a real person was being challenged by some senior forum members.

Odd? So, anyway, just for fun I looked up the forum bios for the individuals concerned. Boom! <_< Was I in for a surprise!

Bill does not have a bio! But, isn't a bio a required criterion for forum membership?

You must be reading Jack's old post. I take it that you didn't research the thread far enough to see where John Simkin posted that I am who I say I am for he has met me. Or you can buy one of Lancer's conference CD's and see me in action.

The real Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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There you go again, unbelievable. Who said I used the drum scan to illustrate the shooter? I didn't. If you care to look back at previous posts, you'll see i clearly stated that I use the drum scan for comparisons. As a matter of fact, I used the Thomson Moorman which I obtained from a source years ago. Your point on sharpness is a no go area in respect to the size of an object in this specific topic. A sharp image of an Elephant will be the same size as an unsharp image of an Elephant. I don't get your point.

Duncan

Duncan, you are not using the sharper Moorman image ... that is obvious from the wide view image you have posted. I posted an animated overlay showing the difference ... the proof is in the image itself. I still await for your image with the outline drawn onto it so we can move on.

Bill

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Ok, here it is. The shooter is far smaller than the figure of Hudson and the other men as can be seen in the gif. Case closed on the size comparison I believe.

Duncan

I love it when you guys write stuff that isn't what the evidence you use shows it to be. You outlined what you called a cops head/hat/ what ever. The distance of that location is much further from Moorman's camera than Hudson is .... maybe almost twice the distance. When the hat that YOU OUTLINED is moved down to Hudson's position - Emmett's head fits within your outline. Despite you merely saying otherwise - the image itself shows what you have outlined of an alleged individual's head, seen much further from the camera, is every bit (if not bigger) than Hudson's head. Now having pointed out this simple observation numerous times ... maybe you can tell this forum why that is if this person is real as you have alleged?

Maybe to better show your outline - maybe post the larger version so everyone can see what I am talking about.

Bill

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Click on the little doo-dad arrow-thing above to go to the "Ed Hoffman" thread.
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I love it when you guys write stuff that isn't what the evidence you use shows it to be. You outlined what you called a cops head/hat/ what ever. The distance of that location is much further from Moorman's camera than Hudson is .... maybe almost twice the distance. When the hat that YOU OUTLINED is moved down to Hudson's position - Emmett's head fits within your outline.

What a load of nonsense, his head is at least a third the size of Hudson's head, and I suspect that if a vote was taken on this observation, you'd lose

Here's a bigger version which proves my point.

Duncan

Your are technically correct ... your outline of a cops head IS at least 1/3 as big as Hudson's. 1/2 to 2/3s as big would also fall within your reply which says "AT LEAST" as big as something else. If you go back to the other example photo you used that looks back the other way ... the peoples bodies seen below are smaller than the shooter's head. So when you fudge it a little and say that the outline is 1/3 as big as Hudson's head, then you are still so far off the mark that you cannot possibly do the damage control needed to try and save your flawed allegation.

The Duncan outline

post-1084-1182201605_thumb.jpg

Below is the view showing how far down the fence the Duncan drawing is located. This can be done by counting the trees in the various assassination images. I will let the photos speak for themselves. The perpendicular view shows the true distance between Hudson and the location in question.

post-1084-1182201820_thumb.jpg

Edited by Bill Miller
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On a distantly related subject, it seems that certain forum members are questioning Bill's credentials & bona fides as a real or actual person. I found a thread on the forum in which Bill's existence as a real person was being challenged by some senior forum members.

With respect Miles..Bill is real..The Bill is a fake threads are a waste of space designed to disrupt in my opinion. As much as I disagree with many of his opinions, and i've been doing so for years, I respect him as a researcher, right or wrong.

Duncan

Ok Duncan,

Anyway, getting back to the impossibility of Ed Hoffman's tale, consider closely Sam Holland's exact words:

Holland: We were jumping over this steam line, this pipe...

Lane: Were there more cars here on the 22nd?

Holland: They were BUMPER-TO-BUMPER, just a sea of cars,

you couldn't hardly get around through them.

We were jumping over the bumpers, over the hoods of the cars

to WORK our way to the spot that we saw the smoke and

heard the shot.

And as we came up to the wooden fence there were about 30 to 50 people around here searching.

_________________________________________________

There's the give away. :blink:

As Holland says BUMPER-TO-BUMPER. Ed forgot to factor in the SEA OF CARS! Why? BECAUSE HE NEVER SAW THEM. From his vantage point 267 yards away Ed saw only the first rank of parked cars parked bump-to-bumper in the parking lot. The cars jammed up behind the first rank of cars (which filled the lot in that area) were invisible to Ed from his view point. So Ed, not realizing his mistake of not seeing the real congestion & glut of cars, goes on to concoct his story of the phantom sniper with the sniper walking freely & unimpeded (and quickly as would have been necessary, as Holland & crew were running pell-mell to the steam pipe!) down to the steam pipe for the rifle toss. So, Ed has his ghost sniper doing the impossible, because he overlooked (pun intended) the real facts.

Bill, who constantly tries to fudge the facts, seems to have overlooked Ed's overlooked massive problem of the densely parked cars.

Addendum: Also, note that Sam says that when he got to the fence (in 2 min.) he found 30 to 50 people there in the area. The first heralds of this throng would have seen the return of the phantom sniper. But no one saw the ghost. :lol:

Edited by Miles Scull
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Holland: They were BUMPER-TO-BUMPER, just a sea of cars,

you couldn't hardly get around through them.

We were jumping over the bumpers, over the hoods of the cars

to WORK our way to the spot that we saw the smoke and

heard the shot.

And as we came up to the wooden fence there were about 30 to 50 people around here searching.

Miles, your argument isn't with me, but rather with the photos and films showing the RR yard immediately after the assassination. You can start with the photo of the butts laying on the ground between the car and the fence. That is not to say that there were not cars parked close to one another, but he didn't say they were butted up against the stockade fence. You seem to like to argue about things that you really have no knowledge of ... first take the time to view as much of the photographical record as possible and then base your opinions on what you have seen and not on what you think you know.
Also, note that Sam says that when he got to the fence (in 2 min.) he found 30 to 50 people there in the area. The first heralds of this throng would have seen the return of the phantom sniper. But no one saw the ghost.

If Holland said there was 30 to 50 people in the area by the time he got there, then how would he know the assassin from the many others he saw? Please try and give a rational and sensible answer.

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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On a distantly related subject, it seems that certain forum members are questioning Bill's credentials & bona fides as a real or actual person. I found a thread on the forum in which Bill's existence as a real person was being challenged by some senior forum members.

With respect Miles..Bill is real..The Bill is a fake threads are a waste of space designed to disrupt in my opinion. As much as I disagree with many of his opinions, and i've been doing so for years, I respect him as a researcher, right or wrong.

Duncan

Ok Duncan,

Ha! Your everlasting disagreement with a fish without a Bio sets me in mind of your stumbling upon:

Lo, now, lo!

Here comes a spirit of his, and to torment me

For bringing wood in slowly. I'll fall flat;

Perchance he will not mind me.

Trinculo

Here's neither bush nor shrub, to bear off

any weather at all, and another storm brewing;

I hear it sing i' the wind: yond same black

cloud, yond huge one, looks like a foul

bombard that would shed his liquor. If it

should thunder as it did before, I know not

where to hide my head: yond same cloud cannot

choose but fall by pailfuls. What have we

here? a man or a fish? dead or alive? A fish:

he smells like a fish; a very ancient and fish-

like smell; a kind of not of the newest Poor-

John. A strange fish! Were I in England now,

as once I was, and had but this fish painted,

not a holiday fool there but would give a piece

of silver: there would this monster make a

man; any strange beast there makes a man:

when they will not give a doit to relieve a lame

beggar, they will lazy out ten to see a dead

Indian. Legged like a man and his fins like

arms! Warm o' my troth! I do now let loose

my opinion; hold it no longer: this is no fish,

but an islander, that hath lately suffered by a

thunderbolt.

[Thunder]

Alas, the storm is come again! my best way is to

creep under his gaberdine; there is no other

shelter hereabouts: misery acquaints a man with

strange bed-fellows. I will here shroud till the

dregs of the storm be past.

:lol::lol: Strange bed-fellows, indeed!

Anyway, getting back to the impossibility of Ed Hoffman's fairy tale, consider closely Sam Holland's exact words:

Holland: We were jumping over this steam line, this pipe...

Lane: Were there more cars here on the 22nd?

Holland: They were BUMPER-TO-BUMPER, just a sea of cars,

you couldn't hardly get around through them.

We were jumping over the bumpers, over the hoods of the cars

to WORK our way to the spot that we saw the smoke and

heard the shot.

And as we came up to the wooden fence there were about 30 to 50 people around here searching.

_________________________________________________

When Ed tells his tale in pantomime of what he alleges he saw his phantom sniper do, Ed walks upright with an imaginary rifle in his two hands as though he is simply walking over unobstructed flat ground.

There's the give away. :blink:

As Holland says BUMPER-TO-BUMPER. Ed forgot to factor in the SEA OF CARS! Why? BECAUSE HE NEVER SAW THEM. From his vantage point 267 yards away Ed saw only the first rank of parked cars parked bump-to-bumper in the parking lot. The cars jammed up behind the first rank of cars (which filled the lot in that area) were invisible to Ed from his view point. So Ed, not realizing his mistake of not seeing the real congestion & glut of cars, goes on to concoct his story of the phantom sniper with the sniper walking freely & unimpeded (and quickly as would have been necessary, as Holland & crew were running pell-mell to the steam pipe!) down to the steam pipe for the joke rifle toss. So, Ed has his ghost sniper doing the impossible, because he overlooked (pun intended) the real facts. IOW, Ed made a major boo-boo, which completely destroys his bogus story & his credibility.

Bill, who constantly tries to fudge the facts, seems to have overlooked Ed's overlooked massive problem of the densely parked cars. Shoddy research indeed. :lol:

Addendum: Also, note that Sam says that when he got to the fence (in 2 min.) he found 30 to 50 people there in the area. The first heralds of this throng would have seen the return of the phantom sniper. But no one saw the ghost. :lol:

Ho! Here cometh the lowly moderator

Who groweth weary of all of this off topic cr@ppeth

Who hath the greatest respect for all the participants,

But thinketh they are bull-headed-eth

"Stop the noise'' she crieth.

For this hath become part knowledge

Mixed in with human vanity.

Can not those who speak

Say what they must without condemnation.?

They had better-eth.

Your servant,

Scrivner Kathy

Guys---Stick to the topic. Please do not belittle each other. It is beneath you.

Edited by Kathy Beckett
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Holland: They were BUMPER-TO-BUMPER, just a sea of cars,

you couldn't hardly get around through them.

We were jumping over the bumpers, over the hoods of the cars

to WORK our way to the spot that we saw the smoke and

heard the shot.

And as we came up to the wooden fence there were about 30 to 50 people around here searching.

Miles, your argument isn't with me, but rather with the photos and films showing the RR yard immediately after the assassination. You can start with the photo of the butts laying on the ground between the car and the fence. That is not to say that there were not cars parked close to one another, but he didn't say they were butted up against the stockade fence. You seem to like to argue about things that you really have no knowledge of ... first take the time to view as much of the photographical record as possible and then base your opinions on what you have seen and not on what you think you know.

Bill

Bill, Your reply is asinine & pompous bombast! As Kathy notes.

The man who is the researcher par excellence, beside whom you are a midget :blink: researcher, Gary Mack, who has seen all the data for decades, has abandoned Ed as credible. Care to slander him? Bill, are you a fraidy cat without a bio? Maybe Kathy will enforce the Forum rule?[/b

(]I most certainly did not say the above attributed to me. Kathy Beckett)

Edited by Miles Scull
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Bill, Your reply is asinine & pompous bombast! As Kathy notes.

The man who is the researcher par excellence, beside whom you are a midget :blink: researcher, Gary Mack, who has seen all the data for decades, has abandoned Ed as credible. Care to slander him? Bill, are you a fraidy cat without a bio? Maybe Kathy will enforce the Forum rule?

Slander: Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community.

No one needs to attempt to slander you - your replies do it for them. Now you have seen the images I posted in post #76 ... do you have any thing to add one way or another to what I have stated?

I have had several private responses from Kathy and I have not gotten the impression that you have attributed to her.

It has been written, "Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but no one has a right to be wrong about the facts. Without the facts, your opinion is of no value.” Rene

Dahinden, August 1999.

Edited by Bill Miller
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