Can we really understand the murder of President Kennedy

[Myra Bronstein]

I've read almost nothing on this subject and am starting to wonder if that's an oversight.

Peter Dale Scott places great emphasis on the significance of the international drug trade in his book "Deep Politics."

However I haven't read his books that focus more directly on the subject, such as "Cocaine Politics" & "Drugs, Oil & War."

More specifically, no matter how much I read about the Vietnam war I can't find a satisfactory answer to the question "why indochina/why Vietnam?" (I know the war machine wanted a profitable war, but how did they settle specifically on Vietnam?) until I start factoring in drugs.

There's a good summary here:

"Perhaps the biggest secret of the Vietnam War is that our Central Intelligence Agency seized control of the infamous Golden Triangle during that time period, then, along with assistance from various elements of Organized Crime, shipped huge amounts of heroin out of that area into our country. Because piles of money were being made from this practice and many others, those who stood to profit from this horrendous war — the armament manufacturers, bankers, military men, and drug dealers — met any suggestion to withdraw from Vietnam with immediate consternation. But that's exactly what John F. Kennedy intended to do upon re-election. In fact, he had already planned on telling the American people that their troops would be back home by 1965. Think about this momentous decision for a moment. If we had exited Vietnam by 1965, EIGHT years of bloodshed in the jungles and civil unrest on America's streets and campuses could have been alleviated.

...

So, even though the above information is only the tip of the iceberg, now do you see why it was so important to the CIA/Mobster/international banker cabal that JFK didn't pull America out of Vietnam? The money (via illegal drug trafficking and for the War Machine) was incredible, while CONTROL of another area of the globe (the Golden Triangle) was secured.

..."

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/babel1/finaljudgment92.html

Obviously this drug angle is especially, potentially, important for those of us who think that President Kennedy's determination for peace was his undoing.

What do y'all think?

[Charles Drago]

Henrik Kruger, The Great Heroin Coup: Drugs, Intelligence, and International Fascism, published in Boston by the South End Press in 1980.

A softcover version is available from alibris.com for $20, and is worth every penny. If that one is gone, try www.froogle.com, type in the title in quotes, and I'm sure you'll find a reasonably priced copy.

The ideal place to start, Myra.

Charles

[Michael Hogan]

Henrik Kruger, The Great Heroin Coup: Drugs, Intelligence, and International Fascism, published in Boston by the South End Press in 1980....

The ideal place to start, Myra.

I believe one can generally count on Charles D to recommend a good book. Like you Myra, he is a reader. A couple of other items:

Alfred McCoy: The Politics of Heroin

A brief, but informative Forum thread with comments by the author:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5671

The CIA, the Military & Drugs

Just the synopses of these Radio Free America broadcasts are fascinating:

http://afasummary.blogspot.com/2004/12/rfa...tary-drugs.html

Edited June 26, 2007 by Michael Hogan

[Myra Bronstein]

Henrik Kruger, The Great Heroin Coup: Drugs, Intelligence, and International Fascism, published in Boston by the South End Press in 1980....

The ideal place to start, Myra.

I believe one can generally count on Charles D to recommend a good book. Like you Myra, he is a reader. A couple of other items:

Alfred McCoy: The Politics of Heroin

A brief, but informative Forum thread with comments by the author:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5671

The CIA, the Military & Drugs

Just the synopses of these Radio Free America broadcasts are fascinating:

http://afasummary.blogspot.com/2004/12/rfa...tary-drugs.html

Thanks Charles & Mike. My next step was to ask for reading recommendations. Now I don't need to.

I sure think it's weird that the "progressive" radio station "Air America" used the exact name as the CIA drug running airline.

I wonder if they're aware of that.

Or if it was intentional.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Myra Bronstein

[Shanet Clark]

Myra

Alfred McCoy in his books confirms your suspicions.

It never ended, Oliver North brought the industry to

Central America in the 1980s and just look at the

situation in Afghanistan today !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Charles Drago]

Myra,

Intentional? I hope so.

Thanks to Michael for the kind words. And he's right, The Politics of Heroin (find the paperback third edition -- significantly updated), which originally appeared as The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia, is as close to a Bible as you'll get on this subject. It's far more substantive, if less cutting edge, than Coup, and must not be overlooked.

Hope you have a lot of spare time this summer.

Charles

[Guest Gary Loughran]

I've read almost nothing on this subject and am starting to wonder if that's an oversight.

Peter Dale Scott places great emphasis on the significance of the international drug trade in his book "Deep Politics."

However I haven't read his books that focus more directly on the subject, such as "Cocaine Politics" & "Drugs, Oil & War."

More specifically, no matter how much I read about the Vietnam war I can't find a satisfactory answer to the question "why indochina?"

Hi Myra,

This may be of use, not drugs but gold. I found it to be a vitally important topic on the forum in my macro understanding of the murkier side of things in that part of the world.

I hope you find it as important as me. I believe Sterling was ill but is or should be back with us soon.

Gold Warriors Topic

Gary

[Charles Drago]

Myra,

Gary has struck ... well ... gold.

Gold Warriors is solidly within the top tier of deep poltical histories -- a tier in which its counterparts are numbered in single digits. Its importance to an understanding of how this all works cannot be overestimated.

Sterling and Peggy Seagrave have enriched us with this history of the secret government's secret treasury. It is beautifully and powerfully written, too.

Top of the list, my friend.

Charles

[Michael Hogan]

At the risk of sounding synchophatic (not a word - I just made it up), I totally agree with Gary Loughran and Charles Drago.

They said it better than I could. The Seagraves' book is an instant classic.

Honesty compels me to admit I only finished a third of it, read the last chapter and put it down. I'm blaming Larry Hancock, Gerald McKnight, George Michael Evica, Michael Kurtz, Edward Haslam, and Paris Flammonde, and most recently, David Talbot.

I need to make time to finish it.

I guess I ought to blame John Simkin too, for starting this time-consuming Forum. Although come to think of it, I wouldn't have heard about some of the above books were it not for John and the Education Forum.

It has been a banner two years for books dealing with President Kennedy's murder, and in the case of Gold Warriors, deep background.

[John Dolva]

Myra: "What do y'all think?"

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

What I think probably doesn't gel with most, but it is an aspect that will be attempted to be dealt with in "Foundations: Dreams of a Grand Southern Empire" leading to "Foundations and Empire" and thus to "Empire". This will be from the point of view of over a hundred years ago involving financing of various Western groupings through the then opium trade.

Another aspect is that the "Golden Triangle" is not just about drugs, it's significantly also about precious stones, minerals, gems and territory including the evolution of post foreign-control of China and Chinas particular 'Manifest destiny'.

In a broad historical sense (IMO), Kennedy threatened to interrupt a stream of historical events that certain powerful forces could not accommodate.

[Larry Hancock]

Myra, my answer is a bit less global in scope than the others but it would also be yes.

However it would be very specific and involves the names in the chapter of my last appendix on a

small clique in the CIA. I'm virtually certain that it was the broader drug/arms "network" which served as

the incubator and shield for the people who murdered JFK; without its power they might not

have had the means, even if they had the will.

Don't think just drugs though, think drugs and arms...the two go hand in hand with these folks.

The weapons buy the political influence the want and the drugs fund the power game.

-- Larry

[Robert Howard]

To look at, for lack of a better word drugs, weapons, gold, as subplots in the assassination, there are different levels and contexts that when analyzed adequately open up one's eyes to, dare I say it, a hidden world.....

Regarding the WC lack of desire to explore Ruby, in retrospect doesent it seem ludicrous that practically nothing was sourced into the 26 Volumes regarding reports from the Federal Bureau of Narcotics [FBN]?

Fabian Escalante asserted that Jack Ruby owned property in Cuba before Castro entered Havana in January 1959. Coffee or tobacco farms, was it?

I also believe there are hitherto undocumented connections between Jack Ruby and the Marseilles Opium Network which ran into the United States from Mexico at Laredo, I believe.

SE Asia and Cuba were not only theaters of conflict, but also, as is well documented areas where opium could be processed w/o fear of prosecution as in say Western Countries, and much more ominously, the idea of targeting US G.I.'s as users seems a great evil, although this area is, from what I understand very conjectural.

The use of gold as a means of circumventing congressional funding for covert operations and as a means of financing black ops is probably one of the great success stories in the seamy world of global drug/covert intrigue. Iran-Contra comes to mind.......

selling and marketing weapons in the proverbial global hot spots is part of the "game of nations," the U.S policy in this area seems to be, if we are the ones doing it, we are acting altruistically, but if one of our ideological enemies [of the moment] does it, they are acting to destabilize an area. We backed Saddam with weapons, et cetera during the Iran-Iraq War, he serves our purposes, then goes on to try a little power play with Kuwait, and ultimately gets bagged, because:?

1. He gasses his own people

2. He uses his country as a base for the terrorist's to attack the US on 9-11, but none of the individuals who participated are even from Iraq, they are all from other countries

3. He has become a power hungry meglomaniac

or

4. He no longer can suit the purposes of those who armed him in the first place.

Robert Gaylon Ross offered a theory regarding the countries of Iran, Iraq, North Korea, which basically stated that a possible ulterior motive that these countries would have been targeted by the West is due to the fact that they are three of the small handfull of countries which, do not have a Central Bank, interesting idea......

[Mark Stapleton]

I've read almost nothing on this subject and am starting to wonder if that's an oversight.

Peter Dale Scott places great emphasis on the significance of the international drug trade in his book "Deep Politics."

However I haven't read his books that focus more directly on the subject, such as "Cocaine Politics" & "Drugs, Oil & War."

More specifically, no matter how much I read about the Vietnam war I can't find a satisfactory answer to the question "why indochina/why Vietnam?" (I know the war machine wanted a profitable war, but how did they settle specifically on Vietnam?) until I start factoring in drugs.

There's a good summary here:

"Perhaps the biggest secret of the Vietnam War is that our Central Intelligence Agency seized control of the infamous Golden Triangle during that time period, then, along with assistance from various elements of Organized Crime, shipped huge amounts of heroin out of that area into our country. Because piles of money were being made from this practice and many others, those who stood to profit from this horrendous war — the armament manufacturers, bankers, military men, and drug dealers — met any suggestion to withdraw from Vietnam with immediate consternation. But that's exactly what John F. Kennedy intended to do upon re-election. In fact, he had already planned on telling the American people that their troops would be back home by 1965. Think about this momentous decision for a moment. If we had exited Vietnam by 1965, EIGHT years of bloodshed in the jungles and civil unrest on America's streets and campuses could have been alleviated.

...

So, even though the above information is only the tip of the iceberg, now do you see why it was so important to the CIA/Mobster/international banker cabal that JFK didn't pull America out of Vietnam? The money (via illegal drug trafficking and for the War Machine) was incredible, while CONTROL of another area of the globe (the Golden Triangle) was secured.

..."

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/babel1/finaljudgment92.html

Obviously this drug angle is especially, potentially, important for those of us who think that President Kennedy's determination for peace was his undoing.

What do y'all think?

And what underpins the massive wealth and corruption associated with illicit drugs? The legislative framework in western nations (monitered closely by the US) of course.

Anyone suggesting legislative changes which take the illegality and hence the massive black market profits out of these drugs must be howled down and vilified. Just think of who the big stakeholder's in this debate are--the DEA and its multi billion dollar budget, police, prison officors, the prison construction industry, the insurance industry, big pharma, the media and the politicians.

Change the laws and the prosperity of the above groups is threatened. Disaster. Better for all concerned to have full jails, high crime rate, dead kids, billionaire drug barons and an ignorant public.

Prohibition of alcohol was a smashing success, wasn't it? This time we have a full blown nanny state thrown in for our trouble. Guess who pays for it?

[Mark Stapleton]

I've read almost nothing on this subject and am starting to wonder if that's an oversight.

Peter Dale Scott places great emphasis on the significance of the international drug trade in his book "Deep Politics."

However I haven't read his books that focus more directly on the subject, such as "Cocaine Politics" & "Drugs, Oil & War."

More specifically, no matter how much I read about the Vietnam war I can't find a satisfactory answer to the question "why indochina/why Vietnam?" (I know the war machine wanted a profitable war, but how did they settle specifically on Vietnam?) until I start factoring in drugs.

There's a good summary here:

"Perhaps the biggest secret of the Vietnam War is that our Central Intelligence Agency seized control of the infamous Golden Triangle during that time period, then, along with assistance from various elements of Organized Crime, shipped huge amounts of heroin out of that area into our country. Because piles of money were being made from this practice and many others, those who stood to profit from this horrendous war — the armament manufacturers, bankers, military men, and drug dealers — met any suggestion to withdraw from Vietnam with immediate consternation. But that's exactly what John F. Kennedy intended to do upon re-election. In fact, he had already planned on telling the American people that their troops would be back home by 1965. Think about this momentous decision for a moment. If we had exited Vietnam by 1965, EIGHT years of bloodshed in the jungles and civil unrest on America's streets and campuses could have been alleviated.

...

So, even though the above information is only the tip of the iceberg, now do you see why it was so important to the CIA/Mobster/international banker cabal that JFK didn't pull America out of Vietnam? The money (via illegal drug trafficking and for the War Machine) was incredible, while CONTROL of another area of the globe (the Golden Triangle) was secured.

..."

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/babel1/finaljudgment92.html

Obviously this drug angle is especially, potentially, important for those of us who think that President Kennedy's determination for peace was his undoing.

What do y'all think?

And what underpins the massive wealth and corruption associated with illicit drugs? The legislative framework in western nations (monitored closely by the US) of course.

Anyone suggesting legislative changes which take the illegality and hence the massive black market profits out of these drugs must be howled down and vilified. Just think of who the big stakeholder's in this debate are--the DEA and its multi billion dollar budget, police, prison officors, the prison construction industry, the insurance industry, big pharma, the media and the politicians.

Change the laws and the prosperity of the above groups is threatened. Disaster. Better for all concerned to have full jails, high crime rate, dead kids, billionaire drug barons and an ignorant public.

Prohibition of alcohol was a smashing success, wasn't it? This time we have a full blown nanny state thrown in for our trouble. Guess who pays for it?

Edited June 27, 2007 by Mark Stapleton

[Michael Hogan]

.....just look at the situation in Afghanistan today !!!!!!!

Record opium crop in southern Afghanistan

· Region set to become world's biggest supplier

· Cocaine consumption up in Europe, says UN report

Richard Norton-Taylor

Wednesday June 27, 2007

The Guardian

Helmand province in southern Afghanistan, where some 7,000 British troops are based, is on the verge of becoming the world's biggest drugs supplier, cultivating more opium than entire countries such as Burma, Morocco, or even Colombia, the UN warned yesterday.

The region was largely responsible for a huge increase last year in Afghanistan's opium poppy harvest, the origin of most of the heroin on the streets of Britain and mainland Europe. And Helmand's poppy harvest is expected to increase again this year, according to the latest annual report of the UN Office on Drugs and Crime.

Full story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/stor...2112348,00.html