The Hemingway Plot

[William Kelly]

Bill, thanks for posting this intriguing article and the recent follow-up.

If we assume the accuracy of Lansdales's memorandum, then the Oval Office meeting with JFK and RFK presents troubling questions.

"A delicate and sensitive" operation involving "fractioning the regime"? What else could they have been discussing but the liquidation of Castro in veiled bureaucratese?

The authors are careful to say that the plan is not entirely clear. And Landsdales's point of view is only one of several.

However, I do think it's significant that Peter Kornbluh of the National Security Archive believes it refers to assassination.

Does anyone have a link to the complete memo at the Mary Ferrell archives or at NARA?

The JFK Library (as of 2001, at least) has squirreled away unreleased documents referring to Sam Giancana (and others of interest) from the CIA, FBI, and State Department? Is this still going on?

Why won't the Library let historians and researchers view these papers, which were paid for by taxpayers?

What are they hiding?

Most here support the release of government files under FOIA and The JFK Act.

The authors' point is well-taken that we should hold the JFK Library to the same legal standards for any Kennedy papers generated in the course of taxpayer funded official business.

If we don't, it's our loss.

Steve

Steve,

Don't forget that Castro wasn't assassinated, JFK and RFK were, and the JFK Library is administered by the National Archives and Records Administration, and JFK and RFK aren't with holding the records, the government is.

It isn't the Hemingway plot that led to JFK's murder, it was the plots associated with the 1963 maritime operations, which were approved by JFK, and operationally exposed to RFK so he would know that what happened at Dealey Plaza was a direct result of these plots.

These are aspects of the Valkyrie plot to kill Hitler that were adapted to be used against Castro, but were redirected to JFK.

Who were the people in the US government behind the contingency plans for a coup ion Cuba? Lansdale, Harvey, Des Fitzgerald, Halpern, Haig and Califano, the same guys who say that they were plotting to kill Castro on orders of RFK.

It wasn't Castro who retaliated against JFK, as Russo and the above would like you to believe, and it wasn't the Mafia who hijacked the plot and redirected it from Castro to JFK (as Waldron puts it), it was those within the US government who were responsible for the plots to kill Castro and adapted the Valkyrie plot who did it.

And I do believe the relevant evidence is in the hidden records, but it isn't the Kennedys who are with holding the records, its the US government.

BK

[Steve Rosen]

Bill,

I agree that it wasn't "the Hemingway plot that led to JFK's murder".

However, I think that Lansdales's memo raises problematic questions as to the Kennedy's conduct that should be examined within the wider historical context.

One reasonable interpretation of that document is that the Kennedy's approved at least one assassination plot against Castro.

That operation - if it existed - didn't necessarily lead to JFK or RFK's murder, and such plotting of course doesn't absolve anybody's responsibility for the Kennedy's deaths.

You wrote that "the JFK Library is administered by the National Archives and Records Administration, and that it "isn't the Kennedys who are with holding the records, its the US government."

You view is at odds with the authors. They made specific charges in 2001 that "Kennedy family ... strictly limits access to the records" at the JFK Library and that historians "have been turned away by the Kennedys".

They also claim that RFK took boxes of "classified and confidential papers" that are now controlled by the Kennedy family and not "subject to the Freedom of Information Act".

I'm not sure which of you is right.

That's why I raised the questions: Is the JFK Library withholding documents that are under the Kennedy family's discretion to release? If yes, why are those materials not available for research? What is in them about Giancana, and others? Are those papers not subject to FOIA requests, as the authors claim?

These should be legitimate concerns to all of us.

Steve

[William Kelly]

Bill,

I agree that it wasn't "the Hemingway plot that led to JFK's murder".

However, I think that Lansdales's memo raises problematic questions as to the Kennedy's conduct that should be examined within the wider historical context.

One reasonable interpretation of that document is that the Kennedy's approved at least one assassination plot against Castro.

That operation - if it existed - didn't necessarily lead to JFK or RFK's murder, and such plotting of course doesn't absolve anybody's responsibility for the Kennedy's deaths.

You wrote that "the JFK Library is administered by the National Archives and Records Administration, and that it "isn't the Kennedys who are with holding the records, its the US government."

You view is at odds with the authors. They made specific charges in 2001 that "Kennedy family ... strictly limits access to the records" at the JFK Library and that historians "have been turned away by the Kennedys".

They also claim that RFK took boxes of "classified and confidential papers" that are now controlled by the Kennedy family and not "subject to the Freedom of Information Act".

I'm not sure which of you is right.

That's why I raised the questions: Is the JFK Library withholding documents that are under the Kennedy family's discretion to release? If yes, why are those materials not available for research? What is in them about Giancana, and others? Are those papers not subject to FOIA requests, as the authors claim?

These should be legitimate concerns to all of us.

Steve

Steve.

There should be legitimate concerns that all of the government records concerning the JFK assassination are not released, as called for by the JFK Act. That's why we are trying to get Congressional oversight hearings, during which the issue of RFK records at the Kennedy Library can be addressed.

Certainly when the Assassination Records Review Board held public hearings in Boston, the subject of those records came up, and Gus Russo and David Corn and Lamar Waldron and those who have a thing about RFK should rightfully seek those records.

RFK's daily appointments book for the entire year of 1963 is missing.

Corn, Russo, Waldron and company (Haig, Halpern, Califano) have been saying for years that RFK approved plans to kill Castro, yet there is no records of this, and if the Lansdal memo on Mary Hemingway and Castro meeting at the Hemingway home in Cuba is the only such record, then I'm not convinced.

These people who claim that Castro was behind the murder of JFK are the same people who claim JFK and RFK ordered Castro's assassination.

JFK and RFK are dead, and Castro is still alive.

The whole reason behind their crusade to establish that JFK/RFK ordered Castro killed is to establish the motive behind the President's assassination.

Once you come to beleive that JFK wanted Castro killed, then it's okay to believe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, and that plots to kill Castro were connected to the murder of the President, and that in the end, JFK desereved to die.

In fact, they are telling us, okay, we killed the son of a bitch and he deserved it.

I'm reading Russo's Brothers in Arms and Waldron's Legacy of Secrecy, and they are the major themes of both books - JFK and RFK wanted Castro killed and they were both killed because they played that game.

Don't you find it peculiar that the same guys who claim Castro killed JFK are the ones who also claim RFK ordered them to kill Castro?

But JFK is the one who ends up being killed, and they point fingers at Oswald, Castro and the Mafia, but not at the CIA/DIA Task Force that was behind the "Contingency Plans for a coup in Cuba" and the plots to kill Castro.

It's simply not true that JFK or RFK approved any specific plot to kill Castro, which is far different than considering some unmentioned action knowing that Castro would visit Hemingway's home, an action that couldn't be anything else other than "knocking him off."

Nor is it true that the records still being withheld for reasons of national security are being with held by the Kennedy family. Confirm this with the Kennedy Library or the NARA, don't take my word for it. Ask them for the records that are being with held and ask who is with holding them?

The President's Executive Order on Presidential Papers of Jan. 21 makes it clear who controls such records, and its not the Kennedys or Bush families.

They (Russo, Corn et al) want you to believe that RFK had his brother killed, and the Kennedys are still withholding the records that confirm this fact.

You want to believe that, go ahead.

I believe that those who maintain the cover story that Castro was behind JFK's assassination, are the real culprets, and the records we have today and the ones still being with held will support this thesis.

BK

[John Dolva]

Bill,

I agree that it wasn't "the Hemingway plot that led to JFK's murder".

However, I think that Lansdales's memo raises problematic questions as to the Kennedy's conduct that should be examined within the wider historical context.

One reasonable interpretation of that document is that the Kennedy's approved at least one assassination plot against Castro.

That operation - if it existed - didn't necessarily lead to JFK or RFK's murder, and such plotting of course doesn't absolve anybody's responsibility for the Kennedy's deaths.

You wrote that "the JFK Library is administered by the National Archives and Records Administration, and that it "isn't the Kennedys who are with holding the records, its the US government."

You view is at odds with the authors. They made specific charges in 2001 that "Kennedy family ... strictly limits access to the records" at the JFK Library and that historians "have been turned away by the Kennedys".

They also claim that RFK took boxes of "classified and confidential papers" that are now controlled by the Kennedy family and not "subject to the Freedom of Information Act".

I'm not sure which of you is right.

That's why I raised the questions: Is the JFK Library withholding documents that are under the Kennedy family's discretion to release? If yes, why are those materials not available for research? What is in them about Giancana, and others? Are those papers not subject to FOIA requests, as the authors claim?

These should be legitimate concerns to all of us.

Steve

Steve.

There should be legitimate concerns that all of the government records concerning the JFK assassination are not released, as called for by the JFK Act. That's why we are trying to get Congressional oversight hearings, during which the issue of RFK records at the Kennedy Library can be addressed.

Certainly when the Assassination Records Review Board held public hearings in Boston, the subject of those records came up, and Gus Russo and David Corn and Lamar Waldron and those who have a thing about RFK should rightfully seek those records.

RFK's daily appointments book for the entire year of 1963 is missing.

Corn, Russo, Waldron and company (Haig, Halpern, Califano) have been saying for years that RFK approved plans to kill Castro, yet there is no records of this, and if the Lansdal memo on Mary Hemingway and Castro meeting at the Hemingway home in Cuba is the only such record, then I'm not convinced.

These people who claim that Castro was behind the murder of JFK are the same people who claim JFK and RFK ordered Castro's assassination.

JFK and RFK are dead, and Castro is still alive.

The whole reason behind their crusade to establish that JFK/RFK ordered Castro killed is to establish the motive behind the President's assassination.

Once you come to beleive that JFK wanted Castro killed, then it's okay to believe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, and that plots to kill Castro were connected to the murder of the President, and that in the end, JFK desereved to die.

In fact, they are telling us, okay, we killed the son of a bitch and he deserved it.

I'm reading Russo's Brothers in Arms and Waldron's Legacy of Secrecy, and they are the major themes of both books - JFK and RFK wanted Castro killed and they were both killed because they played that game.

Don't you find it peculiar that the same guys who claim Castro killed JFK are the ones who also claim RFK ordered them to kill Castro?

But JFK is the one who ends up being killed, and they point fingers at Oswald, Castro and the Mafia, but not at the CIA/DIA Task Force that was behind the "Contingency Plans for a coup in Cuba" and the plots to kill Castro.

It's simply not true that JFK or RFK approved any specific plot to kill Castro, which is far different than considering some unmentioned action knowing that Castro would visit Hemingway's home, an action that couldn't be anything else other than "knocking him off."

Nor is it true that the records still being withheld for reasons of national security are being with held by the Kennedy family. Confirm this with the Kennedy Library or the NARA, don't take my word for it. Ask them for the records that are being with held and ask who is with holding them?

The President's Executive Order on Presidential Papers of Jan. 21 makes it clear who controls such records, and its not the Kennedys or Bush families.

They (Russo, Corn et al) want you to believe that RFK had his brother killed, and the Kennedys are still withholding the records that confirm this fact.

You want to believe that, go ahead.

I believe that those who maintain the cover story that Castro was behind JFK's assassination, are the real culprets, and the records we have today and the ones still being with held will support this thesis.

BK

considering the 'foot soldiers' : a similar 'reverse logic' approach can be applied. If one wanted a good unknown shooter then there were parts of the southern US where they were aplenty. Then considering the strictures of KKK membership> Don't ..or else. Or just plain old (misguided) deep conviction. Within a likeminded community out in hicksville to retire to...

The percieved enemies of the KKK a the time of the assassination were : the Catholic. the Jew, the Black, and the Communist. A Catholic gets killed by a Communist who in turn is killed by a Jew. Three stones with one throw in the City of Hate, where the Black already is under control. One could argue it's an unsolved hate crime under the umbrella of Unsolved Civil Rights cases. Certainly MLK and considering RFK's and Charles Evers as close associates moves definitely MLK ('most dangerous n....r in the US' according to Hoover) and by inference RFK as well into this arena. Of course RFK held the special priviledge of likely being a person who would get into a position to activate a proper investigation.

[William Kelly]

JD "...Of course RFK held the special priviledge of likely being a person who would get into a position to activate a proper investigation."

Not if you believe Russo, or Waldron, or Corn, or Haig, Halpern and Califano.

Russo claims that RFK and LBJ conspired to keep the "Cuban connection" secret so his - RFK's role in the Castro plots and his brother's death was not revealed.

According to Russo, RFK are still supressing the records.

We have enough records open now to know that blaming Castro was written into the plot to kill JFK before 11/22/63, and that those who still blame Castro for Dealey Plaza are the suspects in his murder.

BK