If The Hat Don't Fit

[Alan Healy]

I am still hoping that Gary will look into this a little deeper with us when he gets the time.

If you look at my comparison again, there are numerous places in this small section alone, where areas that are dark in the drumscan(& presumably in the print Thompson had) that have been completely washed away & turned white in the SSID "enhancement".

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/B...Dcomposmall.gif

What I'm suggesting is that this "white-washing" was uniform across the whole print & "the hat" suffered too.

One of the other points I put to Gary was;

if the drumscan is inferior & the SSID print has been "worked on", then "we"(the average researcher/student) have nothing.

We have not yet seen the true shape at the fence the way it original looked in Moorman5.

[Miles Scull]

Before proceeding any further and to be fair to all concerned, let's confirm what Duncan has implied.

Did you scan the book? The page in the book SSID which reproduces the print?

Or is revealing this a threat to national security?

Miles, in an effort to try and keep you from making a narrow-sighted error ... the photos are scanned so to be placed in the books. Those can range from high resolution to low resolution. Such reproductions can be of high quality prints to low quality prints. To know and understand the why as to what prints were used .... you may need to contact the author of the book from which they were presented. Josiah Thompson is a member of this forum and a minute away from trolling will make time to send a short to the point personal message ... that is if you really want to know the facts.

Bill Miller

Are you being coy now?

Did you scan the book? The page in the book SSID which reproduces the print?

Is that how you produced this crop?

[Alan Healy]

Did you scan the book? The page in the book SSID which reproduces the print?

Is that how you produced this crop?

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s115/mi...illerHatman.gif

Miles, does it matter "who" scanned it?

If not then yes, it's a scan from the book but not only that, the scan has been "enhanced".

The bright areas are even brighter in "Bill's scan" than they are in the book.

So it's an enhancement of whatever was done to the published SSID print.

If the SSID print shows loss of detail around the "hat", what you posted above only enhanced that loss.

[Miles Scull]

Did you scan the book? The page in the book SSID which reproduces the print?

Is that how you produced this crop?

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s115/mi...illerHatman.gif

Miles, does it matter "who" scanned it?

If not then yes, it's a scan from the book but not only that, the scan has been "enhanced".

The bright areas are even brighter in "Bill's scan" than they are in the book.

So it's an enhancement of whatever was done to the published SSID print.

If the SSID print shows loss of detail around the "hat", what you posted above only enhanced that loss.

Miles, does it matter "who" scanned it?

Not really. Since Miller is not owning up to the deed, since Miller does not deny the doing of the deed, then I must conclude that Duncan is correct in attributing this pulling a "hat out of a hat" trick to Miller.

If not then yes, it's a scan from the book but not only that, the scan has been "enhanced".

The bright areas are even brighter in "Bill's scan" than they are in the book.

Really! Wow.

So it's an enhancement of whatever was done to the published SSID print.

If the SSID print shows loss of detail around the "hat", what you posted above only enhanced that loss.

Enhanced loss. Wow.

Edited for quotes.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Miles Scull

[Bill Miller]

Not really. Since Miller is not owning up to the deed, since Miller does not deny the doing of the deed, then I must conclude that Duncan is correct in attributing this pulling a "hat out of a hat" trick to Miller.

Doesn't anyone have the Hat Man image from any of Josiah's or Robert's books .... ????

The bright areas are even brighter in "Bill's scan" than they are in the book.

Which book ... do you even know?

Edited November 27, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Miles Scull]

Not really. Since Miller is not owning up to the deed, since Miller does not deny the doing of the deed, then I must conclude that Duncan is correct in attributing this pulling a "hat out of a hat" trick to Miller.

Miles, I'm not accusing Bill of pulling any hats out of any bags, and I don't think it's right that you should credit me with the remark "I must conclude that Duncan is correct in attributing this pulling a "hat out of a hat" trick to Miller" when I did NOT make that remark.

If it turns out that the SSID Hatman has been shaded, degraded, washed out, altered, or whatever, I'm sure Bill would reconsider everything.

Duncan

Having read Gary's message to Alan, I can't think of any logical reason for Josiah to use an inferior image, so I presume that he used a superior image. It's only logical. The image which Bill used is from SSID, but that image would naturally be inferior to the copy from which it was reproduced, which COULD make the drum scan original superior over the Moorman reproduction in SSID. That too is only logical.............BUT

Duncan,

The question is:

Where did this crop come from?.....................

I must be mistaken, then, that you had implied that Miller produced this crop.

OK.

Then, where does it come from?

Are you sure that it comes from a print seen in SSID?

If so, then was it produced by scanning the book?

Who pasted in the yellow arrow & the words in yellow: "hat man"?

Why will Miller not answer these simple questions?

Alan asks if it matters who produced this crop. Well, I suppose it does matter if the image has been shaded.

Is the crop authentic?

What is your opinion?

[Bill Miller]

The question is:

Where did this crop come from?.....................

I must be mistaken, then, that you had implied that Miller produced this crop.

OK.

Then, where does it come from?

Are you sure that it comes from a print seen in SSID?

If so, then was it produced by scanning the book?

Who pasted in the yellow arrow & the words in yellow: "hat man"?

What kind of stupid trolling game is this supposed to be now??? The crop looks to have come from either Groden's or Thompson's book. How did it get on the forum .... someone must have torn it out of the book and glued it onto your computer screen - is there any other way it can be done? This seems to coincide with something someone else wrote about your post in which they said, "He is constantly trying to think of ways to discuss your research and to undermine it (at times he sticks to rather insignificant minute details, and argues about these for pages and pages)."

One thing that I noticed is that this particular crop is not the original scan because it is showing signs of pixeling from someone saving it and reposting it again and again at a lower resolution. Go to either Groden or Thompson's books for probably the best definition of the image.

Bill Miller

Edited November 27, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Miles Scull]

Duncan,

The question is:

Where did this crop come from?

The source is from Josiah's superior print. The source is the all important issue. Any images I have seen of Josiah's reproduction all show the same thing, albeit of differing qualities. The important question is if Josiah shaded the image to make the hat shape look clearer to the viewer. I have written to him as I have previously done to ask about this, but his mail box is full and I do not have another contact email address to contact him.

I must be mistaken, then, that you had implied that Miller produced this crop.

Josiah produced the image in the crop, not Bill

OK.

Then, where does it come from?

Josiah Thompson

Are you sure that it comes from a print seen in SSID?

I don't have the book. I'm taking Alan's word that it comes from SSID. As i've said before, it's the source that is important, and the source of the image which Bill uploaded is from a Josiah print.

If so, then was it produced by scanning the book?

I would guess that is correct

Who pasted in the yellow arrow & the words in yellow: "hat man"?

I don't know

Why will Miller not answer these simple questions?

Writers cramp ?

Alan asks if it matters who produced this crop. Well, I suppose it does matter if the image has been shaded.

I think it would be better to ask who produced the reproduction

Is the crop authentic?

In all of my years of looking at it, I believe that It's an authentic crop from Josiah's best print, but as i've stated, it's what happened at the source that is important, and only Josiah can answer that.

Duncan

Duncan & Alan,

I see.

Well, then is the "hat man" image, if it is concocted to represent a hat, a silly, valueless canard?

It would appear so.

Why?

Well, just as an example, this image:

was interpreted by Jack White in a completely different way:

[Alan Healy]

Everytime I look at it I become more convinced the hat shape is misleading us.

There is something else there to our left, that is connected to the misleading fedora outline.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/B...IDfencecrop.png

I will try again later to get it a little sharper still.

In the meantime, consider this;

Sixty percent of Hudson's dark coloured belt has completely disappeared in SSID &,

the area between the peaks of the "hat"(the trough) is darker in that same SSID print than where Hudsons dark belt has been washed away.

[Alan Healy]

Well, then is the "hat man" image, if it is concocted to represent a hat, a silly, valueless canard?

It would appear so.

Why?

Well, just as an example, this image:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s115/mi...ENCEHatMan2.jpg

was interpreted by Jack White in a completely different way:

Miles,

if Josiah Thompson recognised "the round shape at the fence" as a hat, I am sure he would of said so.

He didn't. He only described it in SSID as I quoted above.

As Gary told us, he just tried to present that shape the best he, or whoever worked on the photo for him could.

The work that was done on the photo has produced a shape remarkably like a fedora style hat, no one concocted that, it's there, whether we like it or not.

Was it there before the work was done?

IMO? Unlikely but, I don't know for sure.

As far as Jack's interpretation goes....

now I look again, it looks like the crop he used also came from SSID but,

why it has been brightened even more I do not know, the last thing the SSID print needs is more light.

Anyway,

I felt priveliged to see that when Jack posted it.

Btw Miles,

can you see how I addressed more than one issue without posting my thoughts inside your post?

Can you return the favour when you reply to my posts please?

It looks & reads so much easier when you do.

Edited November 27, 2007 by Alan Healy

[Alan Healy]

As big & as sharp as I can get it. 1.4mb extreem close-up.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1122/sssidsharphatsc5.png

(please leave it as a link).

Note how the white area to our left is brighter than the rest of the "sky"?

A small part of it also appears to be below the fence line & I seem to be seeing the top of the fence through it

......

......

but that's impossible right?

[Bill Miller]

The source is from Josiah's superior print. The source is the all important issue. Any images I have seen of Josiah's reproduction all show the same thing, albeit of differing qualities. The important question is if Josiah shaded the image to make the hat shape look clearer to the viewer. I have written to him as I have previously done to ask about this, but his mail box is full and I do not have another contact email address to contact him.

Josiah did nothing to create the image seen of the Hat Man. Groden had told me that these images came from the best prints ... that copies were done the old fashion way and not with computers.

[Miles Scull]

The source is from Josiah's superior print. The source is the all important issue. Any images I have seen of Josiah's reproduction all show the same thing, albeit of differing qualities. The important question is if Josiah shaded the image to make the hat shape look clearer to the viewer. I have written to him as I have previously done to ask about this, but his mail box is full and I do not have another contact email address to contact him.

Josiah did nothing to create the image seen of the Hat Man. Groden had told me that these images came from the best prints ... that copies were done the old fashion way and not with computers.

On the trail of the creator of Shorty, one encounters many, many mysteries & shadowy pathways.

The spoor seems to be leading in a certain direction, however. Yes, in one direction.

So, finding another clue, I thought maybe

Alan & Duncan

might also see what I divine here:

[Bill Miller]

Not really. Since Miller is not owning up to the deed, since Miller does not deny the doing of the deed, then I must conclude that Duncan is correct in attributing this pulling a "hat out of a hat" trick to Miller.

Miles, I'm not accusing Bill of pulling any hats out of any bags, and I don't think it's right that you should credit me with the remark "I must conclude that Duncan is correct in attributing this pulling a "hat out of a hat" trick to Miller" when I did NOT make that remark.

If it turns out that the SSID Hatman has been shaded, degraded, washed out, altered, or whatever, I'm sure Bill would reconsider everything.

Duncan

Miles has a modus operandi of attributing things to people that are not necessarily true. One example was his attributing such things was his attributing the words "red plaid" to Bowers when Lee had never mentioned the word 'red'. The crop in question could have been pulled off the net for all anyone knows .... its been on the forums for about the better part of a decade now. The image is what it is and nothing more.

[Bill Miller]

On the trail of the creator of Shorty, one encounters many, many mysteries & shadowy pathways.

The spoor seems to be leading in a certain direction, however. Yes, in one direction.

So, finding another clue, I thought maybe

Alan & Duncan

might also see what I divine here:[/color][/b]

Yes - a new direction. Why not take such nonsense to a new level ... after all there is still a chance that all CTs have not been made to look like complete idiots, but this should do the trick. Again, nice work!